Bugging out to national parks: yes or no?

In planning locations to "bug out" to in certain instances, I'm looking for input on the wisdom and possible drawbacks of choosing a spot in a national park like the Smoky Mnts. There are two types of locations to consider: occupation of less-popular historical structure(s) with clear pasture land towards the outskirts of the park (ie: old 1800s preserved houses and whatnot), and deeper backcountry locations accessible only by miles and miles of hiking or horse riding, with a team of 4-30 adults and a few children. The scenarios are:

1) Libya-style revolution (except with American force)
2) World economic collapse
3) Orwellian takeover

Consider these scenarios assuming that my goal is to maintain my freedom and safety while fighting back if necessary (in the case of revolution, say). One of the things about historical structure locations, besides the great shelter, is the presence of a ranger station supplying electric and communications options. My specific structure location is located close to major highway, in that the access road is one of the first turns after exiting the highway. It is accessed by driving for maybe 20 minutes up a steep and winding paved mountain road, which ends at the trailhead at the top of the mountain, and the structures are located right there off the road in the pastures. There's no town around for maybe 30 miles, and even those are small.

I'm specifically wondering about how much my group would be screwed with by the government in revolution/takeover cases, or other citizens in the case of collapse? Of course anything's possible, but I'm looking for best guesses. For instance: in the Orwellian scenario, they will of course use the parks for whatever they want, but what would they be likely to do with a park like the Smokies, and its historical structures? In the economic collapse scenario, would there even be rangers left in the park, or would they dig in and live off the land they know so well? Would they most likely be open or hostile to outsiders coming in to the park to live off it as well? In a drawn-out Libya-style revolution, would the parks and historic structures have much/any value to the government or insurgents, or would it mostly be fought in the cities and towns with only those fleeing the conflict going to the parks?

The place I use to hunt as a kid is prob the type of place I wold suggest folks to bug out in a shtf scenario. Its a days hike maybe 2 days for some. Half the hike is walkin thru some half assed underbrush guided by azimuth. The other half is following a decent creek till your there. It's so far off the beaten path there is no path. What there is however is a strong creek with ok sized trout during the runs; you can even damn up some of the lower areas and create small pools, big bucks, large enough fields to cultivate for me and my family. If i wanted to get crazy and grow enough food to maybe consider bartering for things I would need to clear out some pines. The best feature is there is no marked road for 12 miles in any direction and by marked road I mean at the very least little yellow triangles to show some semblance of direction.
**SPOILER ALERT**
Man this AgentBlue cat below just made me rethink my nice lil outdoorsy place. Talkin bout drones with flir and findin caves.

I like your tenacity! I would not prefer to give detailed analysis of my bugout plan but I'll be vague. In my honest opinion if you are wanting to fall off the grid so to speak find a place with lots of caves because they make the best shelter and also can shield you better in the event of drones with flir or nightvision. Another observation is during the winter, caves stay 65degrees year round and making a fire ( smoke giving away position) is very nill. make sure the cave isn't a tourist attraction because quite possibly I am not the only one to think of this. One good thing about the smokeys is the fact that it has a lot of trees and that is good so you are harder to spot than someone on the open prairie... Bring plenty of fishing gear because fishing is easier than hunting and less noisy than shooting deer, then again bowhunt.. Just remember to leave the cell phone at home when you bug out bc they can be lowjacked and triangulate your position.
In the event of a revolution get your ass out there and fight because it takes a coward to run and hide. just kiddin lol! I have kids of my own and have already trained them the art of survivalism and shown them old indian caves all over my state and we have stashed small cache of food and supplies in 4 of them( just incase someone gets there and needs it bf we get there( we won't be the only ones finding shelter and hiding) because a little kindness goes a long ways.
We even went as far as burying a few guns and ammo around the caves in 6" pipes. That was my 9 yr olds idea and was happy he thought of it. So that is my vague plan. oh yeah wind up flashlights and wind up radios

Originally posted by 00nunya00
My specific structure location is located close to major highway, in that the access road is one of the first turns after exiting the highway. It is accessed by driving for maybe 20 minutes up a steep and winding paved mountain road, which ends at the trailhead at the top of the mountain, and the structures are located right there off the road in the pastures. There's no town around for maybe 30 miles, and even those are small.

I'm specifically wondering about how much my group would be screwed with by the government in revolution/takeover cases

Well, if they are going to "screw" with you
then
Considering how much information you've just given out I would think that they've got a pretty good idea where to start looking!

Do people even think before posting anymore?

reply to post by Screwed


Dude, come on. Seriously, there's over 300 million people in this country. Even in the Orwellian scenario, it's totally ridiculous to think that they're going to be using a post on a forum describing my potential location to come find me rather than just use their superior technology to find anyone and everyone, everywhere. They wouldn't be going "hmm, she's missing, let's check the internet back-logs for everything she's ever posted!"

Internet posting is dangerous for two reasons: evidence against you if you break the law, and tipping others off to something you want to keep low-key. My location isn't a freaking secret garden, it's----like I said-----a preserved historic site.

reply to post by agentblue


You have brought up a subject I didn't think about with the drones, but could I not get around this by using 2mm mylar or similar heat/light reflecting films? 2mm Mylar reflects something like 90% of heat and light if applied properly; this would be another advantage of a structure with flat wooden walls if no caves were feasible, do you agree? Also, one could dig drone hideouts in the ground around the structures or even accessible from inside if needed. Thanks for bringing this issue up. It presents a lot of challenges.

For instance; there's little to no warning to an approaching drone, correct? By the time you hear the sound, you're already in its sights, right? Man, that makes hiding anywhere nearly impossible unless, like you said, you're constantly in a cave, and that can be mighty impractical, depending on the cave.

Originally posted by 00nunya00
In planning locations to "bug out" to in certain instances, I'm looking for input on the wisdom and possible drawbacks of choosing a spot in a national park like the Smoky Mnts. There are two types of locations to consider: occupation of less-popular historical structure(s) with clear pasture land towards the outskirts of the park (ie: old 1800s preserved houses and whatnot), and deeper backcountry locations accessible only by miles and miles of hiking or horse riding, with a team of 4-30 adults and a few children. The scenarios are:

1) Libya-style revolution (except with American force)
2) World economic collapse
3) Orwellian takeover

Consider these scenarios assuming that my goal is to maintain my freedom and safety while fighting back if necessary (in the case of revolution, say). One of the things about historical structure locations, besides the great shelter, is the presence of a ranger station supplying electric and communications options. My specific structure location is located close to major highway, in that the access road is one of the first turns after exiting the highway. It is accessed by driving for maybe 20 minutes up a steep and winding paved mountain road, which ends at the trailhead at the top of the mountain, and the structures are located right there off the road in the pastures. There's no town around for maybe 30 miles, and even those are small.

I'm specifically wondering about how much my group would be screwed with by the government in revolution/takeover cases, or other citizens in the case of collapse? Of course anything's possible, but I'm looking for best guesses. For instance: in the Orwellian scenario, they will of course use the parks for whatever they want, but what would they be likely to do with a park like the Smokies, and its historical structures? In the economic collapse scenario, would there even be rangers left in the park, or would they dig in and live off the land they know so well? Would they most likely be open or hostile to outsiders coming in to the park to live off it as well? In a drawn-out Libya-style revolution, would the parks and historic structures have much/any value to the government or insurgents, or would it mostly be fought in the cities and towns with only those fleeing the conflict going to the parks?

I think the major battles will be in the large(r) cities. I think that many city dwellers will flee the city and "TRY" to live in the wilderness/forest, many if not most wont beable to because they are far to citified. Anyhow, for myself I look for cave like areas on the sides of the mountains away from the roads. I plan on going as deep in as I can. And plan on staying there a few years before venturing out to see the outcome. That is IF It happens of course.

reply to post by prexparte


Okay, I can see and agree with your plan as far as the "staying safe" aspect goes. But the thing is, in my situation I need to plan for kids. Anywhere from birth to toddlerhood to teenagers, and other possible births while we're out there. If it were just me and some other adults, sure, hoofing it to caves miles beyond a road would be perfect. But it won't be just adults. It's nearly impossible to carry all the supplies needed for not-just-barely-surviving in the deep woods AND carry a few children the whole way, you know? I don't need to be taking the kitchen sink, but even my bug-out bag designed for basic survival for an extended time in the deep woods would preclude me from carrying my daughter. Assuming everyone else has one of those packs as well, how do any of the kids get carried?

So what I'm looking for is input on what I should consider for the two specific location types I mentioned, given that I will need to be managing children the whole time as well. Carrying them is obviously one drawback of the deep-woods location; easier access to the "enemy" is a drawback of the historic structure location. That's kind of what I'm looking for help with----things I haven't though of having to deal with for MY chosen locations and requirements.

I think that if this is your plan...

One would do better to go as deeply as possible into the wilderness. far beyond where city dwellers or most others would venture.Go as far into that rabbit hole as possible.

Preferably near a stream or small river. Small enough to not be a transportation route, You don't want people floating by or into your camp.

Build a good debris shelter and when weather & time permits start a permanent log home or sod home. Sod cut up to make garden areas could be used.

If you have the skill and materials you can make a water wheel to provide small amounts of electricity or use it to power mechanical devices.

If you can stay very isolated for weeks, months or even years, you can venture back to populated area's for reconnaissance to get a fell for how the worlds moving on. Decide if you can move back into it or stay put.

There are places here in Arizona where I could live of the grid and most likely never see another human being if I wished and was careful.

thats my plan.. mostly because all the forest land around here is fed. res land :/
but.. on the brite side,their oak forests, so lots and lots of acorns to gather, which i imagine will quickly become a large part of my diet.. plus, all the dear and rabbits and such... study the native cultures in your area, understand how they did it.. mix that with what u know, and ittl be kool..

I did a test a few years back with the company thermographis camera and posted the results in a thread on here.

Basicly if you take a large blanket and soak it as it dries it cools enough to keep a coleman propane lantern 5 feet behind it hidden from the camera. So if your doing the cave thing then hide the blanket far enought in that it isn't visible from outside the cave and forms a artificial wall across the cave mouth, then keep yourself and any heat sources at least 5 feet beyound the blanket. I also tried it with a cotton sheet; and it didn't work as well.

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by prexparte

 

...

So what I'm looking for is input on what I should consider for the two specific location types I mentioned, given that I will need to be managing children the whole time as well. Carrying them is obviously one drawback of the deep-woods location; easier access to the "enemy" is a drawback of the historic structure location. That's kind of what I'm looking for help with----things I haven't though of having to deal with for MY chosen locations and requirements.

That's the problem with most ideas on the one-size-fits-all bug out location. It really will come down to the type of scenario playing out.

If the revolution scenario goes down, you'd likely be safe enough for a while, perhaps a year or so, at a location like what you're describing. People that you run into will more than likely be "nice", "friendly" types, many with kids and loved ones, just trying to escape the nasty going down in the cities. These people will be more likely to help than hurt, and will likely be looking to become part of a community rather than just "rape and pillage", etc.

However, if it's an economic collapse, you can bet your ass that someone is going to come along trying to take your shelter and reserves of food/water/etc in a matter of weeks (if they don't beat you to the easy-to-find location you chose). Many of these people will be ready to kill you and everyone with you to take your stuff, and you'd need to be mentally/spiritually/emotionally ready to kill them to stop them from taking it...a better way to do things would obviously be to choose another location that you believe will be safer from that kind of threat should it arise (further from roads and harder to access, more hidden from zombie/cannibal gangs looking for loot and women, etc). Also, invest some thought into how to make yourself and your chosen location look like less of a target. Either serious visibly intimidating border security or moves to make it look completely ransacked/abandoned come into the equation.

Kids factored into the mix mean that security from these kinds of threats is even more important, as a gun fight with a gang of idiots looking for a replacement for their foodstamps isn't something you want your kids anywhere near, but also means more time/effort/planning needs to be invested in getting to such a safe location.

Now, the Orwellian takeover scenario would call for either a VERY secure "hide out" location, such as the cave system way off the beaten path, or the ability to stay mobile for long periods (no permanent camps), neither of which would be easy for most even without kids. That situation will certainly start in cities and small towns with the initial lockdown, but quickly spread to the countryside as they get a handle on the cities. This gives you a good amount of time to GTFO before they'll be hunting you down, but they will get to that part of the plan. The further you get away from population centers and main roads, the better, but the drones will be a major factor along with regular sweeps and possibly even remote sensors placed strategically throughout wilderness areas. Any signs of habitation, down to and including leaving charcoal from cooking fires on the surface of the ground, becomes a major oversight. Anyone who's not part of the system, in this kind of a scenario, becomes a threat.

That makes this kind of SHTF scenario one of the most terrifying to face as no amount of planning, stockpiling or smarts can ensure you wont happen to miss something small someday and end up bringing all hell down upon yourself and your loved ones. This is the one I think all of us dread. It combines many of the worst case scenarios into one big "oh crap", and literally no where will be safe until the "takeover" is over.

If/when it happens, you'll have a better idea of what's needed in the situation, but planning on a one-size-fits-all bug out location is probably not the best idea, especially in your situation.

the very smartest thing you can do is stay at home in a well stock safe room. with solar panels you can ever have electricity if the grid goes down. it also gives you home field advantage.

if you go into a state or national park illegally you will be caught, arrested and fined. you will be charged for all damages done in the parks. you would be a 'squatter' if you do not have the appropriate license and stamps for hunting, fishing, trapping, all the above plus your gear confiscated.

if you break into one of their homesteads, you will go to jail.

parking, parked cars are towed and they also tip the authorities to who you are and where you are from.

the authorities have the home field advantage. you may think you have a hidden locale but you need to know they inventory the trees and wildlife, its where they work and they take their work seriously.

finally, its the reality that will get you. cold, wet, scared, hungry, bored and every other adjective that denotes human misery can be applied here also. its what you don't know or haven't thought of that gets you.

reply to post by flyingdog


Dude, this is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thank you!

The Orwellian scenario is definitely the worst. My only real plan with kids is to get far enough out into nowhere that by the time they could find us, the resistance will have beaten or severely hurt them so they have better things to do.