Tesla Coil does 5 impossible things

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
reply to post by abecedarian

 

i use to rewind motors for a living,
and we would make rotophases for customers, the fisrt
was a75hp. after 3 months of service the customer had a visit
from the power company wanting to know why their power consumption went down.
yes it will draw current off the the single phase lines but the third phase is from the winding and rotor.
if you use just one line from the input, and the other line is the generated line. you have what ever input
voltage is. if you put a amp clamp on it and watch. your only pulling amps off of the one leg in a single phase set up. and if use as a 3phase set up you have droped the 3 leg from power company and no current is drawn from them. except on phase a&b

edit on 22-2-2011 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

75 HP? That's about what, 400 amps or so on single phase at 220v, right? [more like 500 amps]

Not likely.

Okay, wait...
A 5HP motor draws approximately 28 amps at 240V...
So, 75HP motor would draw (75/5=15... 15*28=420) about 420 amps....
Guess I wasn't all that far off with my 400~500 Ampere guesstimate.

And you're welcome to argue, but then we'll have to take this out into Watts.
And we'll have to discuss phase sensitive equipment too.

Originally posted by mrgalleria
High tension wires carry 10's or 100's of thousands of VOLTS without insulation,
and are only a few feet apart, even in very rainy weather.
Does the AIR conduct this very high voltage? No. Because air is not a conductor.

Once again you are wrong, misled, misinformed, whatever you want to call it.

People that do repairs to HV cables approach them with a helicopter. If they get too close the current will JUMP THROUGH THE AIR and hit the helicopter. They have to use a wand (specific name escapes me at the moment) to control the current, or else it will fry the repair man, or the helicopter.

So, it's a fact that current from HV cables WILL arc through the air. Will you admit you were wrong, at least about that? If so, that proves a TC is not the only thing that arcs through the air.

Originally posted by mrgalleria
BTW- Lightning is not a DEVICE.
Lightning is caused when warm and cool air meet, as explained by NASA.
You don't understand this function, because you do not understand what keeps air warm.

You seem really confused.

It doesn't matter if it is a device, you claim air will not conduct electricity, that the only time current arcs through the air is with a TC. This is not the fact. I have already demonstrated TWO situations where the AIR WILL CONDUCT ELECTRICITY. That is a fact you can not disprove, because it happens.

Originally posted by mrgalleria
Also, the Tesla COIL secondary collects/induces thousands of times more amps
or watts than are applied to the primary.
More amps, more watts, and more volts. Induced. Taken.

A device does not exist that can take an input with a certain amperage, wattage, and voltage, and have an output of higher amperage, wattage, and voltage. The TC does not do this. Such would be just randomly creating energy. If this was possible, you could plug in a TC, and capture the current from the other side, and sell it back to the power company. Why aren't you doing this if it's possible? Because it's not.

reply to post by James1982


I wouldn't say "always" with a helicopter, but insulated lift trucks are often used.

abecedarian said "...the resistance of air..."
Finally, someone has come upon a truth- AIR IS a resister.

and "distilled water is a very, very weak conductor"
Hello- I have been making hydrogen and oxygen from water for years.
I know more than most about electrolysis. I even invented a unique WFC,
and unique annihydrous ammonia generator. I have video's showing these.

and "lowering the resistance between the source and ground potential and consequentially increasing the probability of a discharge"
Again, quoting things that cannot be proven in simple tests. If this actually occurred, the spark would be discharged to ground potential. It is not. It is reaching out to air and other matter potential- in saturation.

and "I could say an automotive ignition coil can discharge large amounts of electricity into the air"
Sad, sad, sad. No, the spark runs from engine which is grounded to the battery, across the plug gap, up the plug wire, TO the coil.
It is an INDUCTIVE coil, inducing/taking energy from heat.
Strange, just how I said the Tesla COIL operates, haha, isn't that a coincidence.

and "I've seen Tesla Coil designs incorporating automotive ignition coils. Wonder why that is?"
Yep- to supply high voltage to the primary.
Could also use a neon light transformer, flyback transformer, or other HV transformer,
or potentially the HV HF in the air using air coils and frequency generators.

and "the collapse of the field in the primary induces current"
Sort of. It moves it. You forgot to explain where it induces it from.
I know why. Because it's not in your book, or on any web page.

and "Okay, which is it? More Amps? More Watts? More Volts?"
I am not confused, you are. It does more of each.
Not just one, so there is no need to ask- which is it?

and "Secondary does oscillate at a frequency determined by the oscillation of the Primary"
That's funny, then why don't car ignition coils, and other coils and transformers "oscillate" too?
And why don't they oscillate at different frequencies from the primary, like the Tesla coil?
Don't try to say they do, because any auto mechanic can tell you that they don't.

Sorry, I cannot pull the wool off your eye's, but maybe some others here will know the truth when they see it.

Originally posted by mrgalleria
abecedarian said "...the resistance of air..."
Finally, someone has come upon a truth- AIR IS a resister.

and "distilled water is a very, very weak conductor"
Hello- I have been making hydrogen and oxygen from water for years.
I know more than most about electrolysis. I even invented a unique WFC,
and unique annihydrous ammonia generator. I have video's showing these.

and "lowering the resistance between the source and ground potential and consequentially increasing the probability of a discharge"
Again, quoting things that cannot be proven in simple tests. If this actually occurred, the spark would be discharged to ground potential. It is not. It is reaching out to air and other matter potential- in saturation.

and "I could say an automotive ignition coil can discharge large amounts of electricity into the air"
Sad, sad, sad. No, the spark runs from engine which is grounded to the battery, across the plug gap, up the plug wire, TO the coil.
It is an INDUCTIVE coil, inducing/taking energy from heat.
Strange, just how I said the Tesla COIL operates, haha, isn't that a coincidence.

and "I've seen Tesla Coil designs incorporating automotive ignition coils. Wonder why that is?"
Yep- to supply high voltage to the primary.
Could also use a neon light transformer, flyback transformer, or other HV transformer,
or potentially the HV HF in the air using air coils and frequency generators.

and "the collapse of the field in the primary induces current"
Sort of. It moves it. You forgot to explain where it induces it from.
I know why. Because it's not in your book, or on any web page.

and "Okay, which is it? More Amps? More Watts? More Volts?"
I am not confused, you are. It does more of each.
Not just one, so there is no need to ask- which is it?

and "Secondary does oscillate at a frequency determined by the oscillation of the Primary"
That's funny, then why don't car ignition coils, and other coils and transformers "oscillate" too?
And why don't they oscillate at different frequencies from the primary, like the Tesla coil?
Don't try to say they do, because any auto mechanic can tell you that they don't.

Sorry, I cannot pull the wool off your eye's, but maybe some others here will know the truth when they see it.

If it can output more WATTS (volts x amps) then we'd have cheap energy right now. There's no way they could hide that. This fact flies in your face. Explain how this cheap energy has escaped us because from what yo say it should be clear as day and if that's true then we should all be using it right now not chatting about it. Sine we're not then it's clear as day you're spreading BS.

Now having stated the obvious i'd like to state something less obvious. They say nothing can be created or destroyed in this universe. Well then how come at quantum scales because of the uncertainty principle particles will appear and disappear? How can they do that if things cannot be created or destroyed? Even empty space 'creates' and 'destroys' these particles.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Thanks for asking that question again, because he totally ignored me when I asked it, must not have an answer!

It cannot put out more watts, amps, and volts than is put into. This is over unity. If such a piece of technology already exists, than why aren't they being used to generate power? They aren't being suppressed by TPTB, they are in every 8th grade classroom.

If you actually believe what you say, and can prove it, then put together a business plan and investors will line up at your door to put money into this. But they won't, because if you go in saying a TC generates more power than is put into it, they will all laugh at you.

James1982 said "A device does not exist that can take an input with a certain amperage, wattage, and voltage, and have an output of higher amperage, wattage, and voltage. The TC does not do this."
Quote from "How Tesla Coils Work- "I should note here that even at input power levels of a thousand watts, the instantaneous power levels during gap firing can reach a million watts or more."
What part of "million" would you like me to explain?

And "Such would be just randomly creating energy"
No.
From the beginning- Earth's air would be absolute zero- 459 degrees F. if it was not heated by the sun.
Any temperature above absolute zero is energy.
Thus, 100 degrees F. is actually 559 MOE (measure of energy).
Even -100 degrees F. (below zero) is 359 MOE.
Those big numbers are measuring energy, and a thermometer is an energy measuring device.
What is that energy?
It is HIGH VOLTAGE HIGH FREQUENCY ELECTRICITY.
The energies commonly referred to as "space energy, zero-point energy,
cold electricity, one wire electricity, vacuum energy, Casimir effect,
radiant energy, ambient energy, scalar energy, and others are
the stored HV HF electricity in the air, or in other matter.

Air is an insulator but not a very good one with its main attraction being the fact that it's free and it adds no weight. Stress it with enough kV per unit distance between potentials and it breaks down (arcs) and the mechanism of ionisation and breakdown has been described earlier. Its drawbacks are the relatively huge distance required to achieve safe isolation (around 1m per 100kV) and its dielectric constant (insulator effectiveness) varies with altitude, temperature and humidity.

The helicopter approaching a phase of a live line for maintenance needs to be charged up to the line's potential before a linesman (in a conductive suit) can transfer himself onto the line safely, that's what the 'wand' is for - to charge up the chopper and everyone/everything inside it. Think of the helicopter and line as a capacitor with air dielectric which has to be shorted out to remove all potential difference between the plates and it's done with an extension conductive pole to prevent arcing damage to the chopper.

One modern implementation of the tesla coil's principle of operation is the capacitor discharge ignition system which accumulates a primary side high voltage produced by an inverter in a capacitor, releasing that higher primary voltage via a fast switching device (mosfet, transistor, or SCR) on demand. The secondary peak voltage is not actually related to the primary voltage, but the rise rate of primary current and hence the rise rate of primary flux. Tesla achieved this with spark gaps to control the charge time. frequency and primary side peak voltage (and therefore peak current) mainly because there were no electronic devices suitable for this in his day. Basicly a simple relaxation oscillator based on spark gaps and capacitors.

Originally posted by mrgalleria
abecedarian said "...the resistance of air..."
Finally, someone has come upon a truth- AIR IS a resister.

I've never denied that. Rather, I've mentioned it has resistance yet given sufficient voltage applied, it will ionize thus becoming a conductor of electricity.

You have to concede to that or otherwise admit a Tesla Coil cannot conduct electricity through the air.

and "distilled water is a very, very weak conductor"
Hello- I have been making hydrogen and oxygen from water for years.
I know more than most about electrolysis. I even invented a unique WFC,
and unique annihydrous ammonia generator. I have video's showing these.

Almost a good deflection. Hydrogen mixed with Oxygen is not Water. So I must laugh.

and "lowering the resistance between the source and ground potential and consequentially increasing the probability of a discharge"
Again, quoting things that cannot be proven in simple tests. If this actually occurred, the spark would be discharged to ground potential. It is not. It is reaching out to air and other matter potential- in saturation.

Okay... we'll perform a simple test: You contact Edison Electric, PG&E or whomever your local utility provider is, and tell them that you want to relocate the conductors on one of their towers in close proximity to a CoGen facility. If there's no chance of harm, I'm sure they'll let you do it, right? Or maybe they've already, over the past century or so- give or take, figured out that those wires should be "so" far apart?
Nah, not according to you.
But I've also got safety requirements for my line of work- 15 feet distance from any cable when the circuit involved is 50kV or less, then add 5 feet for every 10kV above that.

But then again, you're only considering the "visible" discharge from a TC and not considering other pathways to ground.

Have you ever seen lightning flash from cloud to cloud? Okay... electricity jumped from high-potential to lower potential... and maybe even to "ground" potential yet you didn't see it strike the ground.

So...

and "I could say an automotive ignition coil can discharge large amounts of electricity into the air"
Sad, sad, sad. No, the spark runs from engine which is grounded to the battery, across the plug gap, up the plug wire, TO the coil.
It is an INDUCTIVE coil, inducing/taking energy from heat.
Strange, just how I said the Tesla COIL operates, haha, isn't that a coincidence.

Yeah, strange the ignition coil operates just like a Tesla Coil. But in other news, the "spark" in a spark plug occurs across the "plug gap" on the "spark plug" and possibly across an "air gap" that occurs when the distributor "rotor" is pointing at a particular "plug tower" on the inside of the "distributor cap".

and "I've seen Tesla Coil designs incorporating automotive ignition coils. Wonder why that is?"
Yep- to supply high voltage to the primary.
Could also use a neon light transformer, flyback transformer, or other HV transformer,
or potentially the HV HF in the air using air coils and frequency generators.

Circuit diagrams, please?

and "the collapse of the field in the primary induces current"
Sort of. It moves it. You forgot to explain where it induces it from.
I know why. Because it's not in your book, or on any web page.

Already explained it. Move on or prove me wrong.

and "Okay, which is it? More Amps? More Watts? More Volts?"
I am not confused, you are. It does more of each.
Not just one, so there is no need to ask- which is it?

No it doesn't. Solve for Ohm's law and prove your point.

and "Secondary does oscillate at a frequency determined by the oscillation of the Primary"
That's funny, then why don't car ignition coils, and other coils and transformers "oscillate" too?
And why don't they oscillate at different frequencies from the primary, like the Tesla coil?
Don't try to say they do, because any auto mechanic can tell you that they don't.

They do oscillate in accordance with the trigger from the points/air gap/trigger EXACTLY like TC's do. AND I AM trained as an auto mechanic and will tell you they do. There are some properties related to the collapse of the field, inductance and such where the combusted materials provide a means to measure resistance within the combustion chamber and thus some information about the combustion event such as average temp and ionization with the chamber, likelihood of combustion, temperature and such... all by measuring the resistance, or maybe reactance across the spark plug.

But hey, you know more than I and you're more than willing to scream it out to the world... 'cause no one knows anything more than the one who yells the loudest (whether right or, like you claim "right")

[and here I was, staying up late hoping to have a logical discussion]

Jonnywhite said "Explain how this cheap energy has escaped us"

waterpoweredcar.com...
Above link explains who ran cars on water, and why we don't.

www.rexresearch.com...
keelynet.com...
Above links to sites dedicated to resurrecting suppressed tech.

peswiki.com...:Suppression
More suppressed inventors

Here is the holy grail-
www.free-energy-info.co.uk...
Donald Lee Smith advanced Tesla's work.
And made the secrets clear.

Abe said "Hydrogen mixed with Oxygen is not Water"
oops, you didn't get the memo- H2O, H is for hydrogen, O is for oxygen.

Read the link posted about MIT and their wireless power transmission.

www.networkworld.com...

The Tesla Coil doesn't do 5 impossible things. If it was impossible it would not be doing them.

A Tesla Coil is a resonant transformer. The key to all your questions is the word "RESONANT".

The main feature of a Tesla Coil is the TANK CIRCUIT that is connected to the primary coil. Normally when you quickly charge a primary coil, without a tank circuit, the charge is instantly lost and discharged by the coil. However, when you hook up a tank circuit to the primary coil, the charge is NOT instantly lost because when it discharges it induces a charge on the capacitor, then the capacitor charges the coil again, then when the coil discharges again it charges the capacitor again, and repeat. The charge will bounce back and fourth until the resistance in the wire discharges it all.

Basically, the tank circuit "holds" or "captures" electricity, and bounces it back and fourth... it resonates/oscillates. The speed at which it bounces back and fourth is determined by the specifications of the tank circuit. As the charge resonates back and fourth in the tank circuit coil, it induces a charge on the secondary coil.

So you see, a transformer without a tank circuit wastes a lot of energy. When you attach a tank circuit to the transformer, the energy that is wasted is actually saved, and bounced back and fourth. This saved energy is what creates all the "impossible" things.

Originally posted by mrgalleria
...
Abe said "Hydrogen mixed with Oxygen is not Water"
oops, you didn't get the memo- H2O, H is for hydrogen, O is for oxygen.

Oops... you must not have received any training in chemistry.
H2O is water. A solution of H2 and O2 is not water until the H2 is oxidized into H2O.

reply to post by abecedarian


just a example of a U.S. motorsspecs.

Catalog Number: DH75S2BF Model: BW62
Hp: 75 Phase: 3 Volts: 230/460 HZ: 60
RPM: 1780 Amps: 185/92
Insul Class: F SF: 1.15 SFA: 214/107
Max Ambient: 40 NEMA Frame: 364T Encl: DP Code: D
Shaft End Bearing: 6215-2Z-J Opp End Bearing: 6212-2Z-J
NEMA Nom Eff: 93.0 Thermally Protected: N/A Type: PHASE

also you can get a variable frequency drive and do the same thing,turn single phase to three phase or 0 to 460volts. but these are much more expensive.





rule of thumb higher voltage lower amps, lower voltage higher amps
thats why most people run 220v on their pool pumps cheaper to run on 220 than 115

I have nothing to add to this discussion except that if we have anything we must show the BASE of what it is we have.
Do the experiments yourself instead of supplying endless links and paragraphs of what others have written in books and learned parrot fashion by you.
I have no doubt you are all intelligent people who have earned a reputation and a living using the electricity we use today but there is i feel a fundemental flaw in our knowledge.

Sorry to butt in.


Icanseeatoms.

reply to post by Icanseeatoms


Every certified electrical engineer has done these experiments in lab classes as part of their training.

... but some of the people posting here can't even tell the difference between temperature, current, voltage, resistance and frequency. Until they get some basics, this topic is a waste of other peoples time.

reply to post by chr0naut


Yes exactly as part of their training by the people who have fed them the information from books that they themselves learned from.


Icanseeatoms.

Originally posted by chr0naut
... but some of the people posting here can't even tell the difference between temperature, current, voltage, resistance and frequency. Until they get some basics, this topic is a waste of other peoples time.

You forgot duty cycle too.

Mario can do alot of impossible things too. What he is doing in these coils, one may never know.....

www.youtube.com...


If engineers are corrupted by books as you say, why not make 2 identical tesla coils and then attach both secondaries, power the first one, rectify the output from the second one on the lower voltage side and get free energy? No? Cus the internet told you all you need to know, so theres no point in doing it yourself?

That's why some scientists have thought about the possibility of a Tesla coil being a component in a time machine. Not the primary component that makes it work but an important component that helps it work.