It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Tesla Coil does 5 impossible things

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 08:23 PM
link   
The Tesla Coil does 5 impossible things.
Many scientific people comment here, some even ridiculing Tesla.
The Tesla coil is really a simple inductive coil,
even though many describe it in a much more complicated way, to confuse us.
Let them use their knowledge to simply explain how-
1.Powerful sparks can jump from a point- into nothing (air).
2. How the primary coil can run at a given frequency, and the secondary coil runs at a higher frequency.
3. How electricity comes from BOTH ends of the secondary coil.
4. How a dis-proportionate voltage is generated in the secondary coil.
5. How a dis-proportionate amperage is generated in the secondary coil.
www.youtube.com...

Bill
edit on 23-2-2011 by Gemwolf because: Removed all caps title




posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 08:29 PM
link   
You fail to recognize that a tesla coil is a transformer. If you do not know what a transformer is I suggest you take a look because 4 out of your 5 points a transformer addresses. And you do realize that air has conductance?



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 08:55 PM
link   
No secret impossible technology at all..
Voltage from both ends ( why of course there is...)

I know this is getting technical: A coil "winding is : "a piece of wire" of a certain number of turns. " a piece of wire" has two ends. A voltage is a potential difference measured across any two points.if the air is damp and very conductive and if the secondary is not physically "grounded" there will be a potential difference between the air (which is in physical contact with "earth" ground) and the secondary winding which is"floating"( not tied to earth ground. "floating ground" is a very common situation in electrical devices. Air can be be at ground potential while the voltage induced in the secondary is not.

"Center tapped transformers commonly have a tap in the center of the secondary windings tied to ground
None of Teslas' stuff is "suppressed; hard to understand new age magic".
Y'all should stop worshiping Tesla

Your "Tesla" was good;but
Kelvin is lord !


KELVIN IS LORD!!!
ALL PRAISE THE LORD KELVIN!!
Only The One, True Lord KELVIN
Can Conserve You From Entropy!





zapatopi.net...

edit on 22-2-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-2-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-2-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-2-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 09:10 PM
link   


Powerful sparks can jump from a point- into nothing (air).
Air is something. It has a known resistance. When ionized by high voltages, the resistance drops.



How the primary coil can run at a given frequency, and the secondary coil runs at a higher frequency.
They run at the same frequency. I think you mean at a higher voltage.



How electricity comes from BOTH ends of the secondary coil.
Electricity can only flow if there is a potential difference (ie: while one end is positive, the other is negative). Power is only induced in a coil when the magnetic field is changing so an alternating flow is applied to the primary which induces an alternating flow in the secondary.



How a dis-proportionate voltage is generated in the secondary coil.
The voltage is EXACTLY proportional to the number of windings in each coil (minus small amounts for losses in the system). If the primary had 10 windings and the secondary had 10,000, the voltage produced in the secondary would be 1,000 times that in the primary.



How a dis-proportionate amperage is generated in the secondary coil.
Again the current in the secondary is proportional to the current in the primary but relates to Ohm's law which states that Voltage = Current / Resistance (as the current is alternating, the resistance value should really be replaced with reluctance).

There's no magic in it, sorry.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 09:24 PM
link   
Nope.
None of the answers accurately addressed the issues.
A lot of "ifs" in the answers, too.
Fordrew- the Tesla coil is an inductive coil. The coil on your car is similar, and called a coil, not a transformer. But it may be called a transformer too, if it pleases you.
Air is a resister, though in cases of high humidity, that resistance is decreased. Unless you can get electrocuted putting your finger NEAR an electrical outlet, and the CONDUCTOR AIR passes the current to your finger.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 09:32 PM
link   
reply to post by mrgalleria
 


en.wikipedia.org...

Please feel free to read the information posted in the above link, I am sure most of it will be of interest to you as it bears greatly on the subject of the OP.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 09:33 PM
link   
Primary and secondary"running" at different frequencies:

(completely explained here: in how a Tesla coil works):
members.tm.net...

executive summary:
Basically primary and secondary windings eachform the "L"part part their own "LC" oscillators ( the common "tank circuit") the primary inputs energy to the secondary which resonates at a different frequency dependent on the inductance of the secondary coil and the capacitance provided by the dielectric of the surrounding air to ground.

No magic...




members.tm.net...



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 09:51 PM
link   
reply to post by 46ACE
 


Please read your Tesla coil details a little more thoroughly. To quote from the link you posted (near the end, emphasis added):



The output of a Tesla coil is maximized when two conditions are met. First, both the primary and secondary must oscillate at the same frequency. And secondly, the total length of conductor in the secondary must be equal to one quarter of the oscillator's wave length.


Although the Tesla coil relies on resonance to increase its output, both primary and secondary coils run at the same frequency. They have to, as one induces current flow in the other.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 09:53 PM
link   
As a child I used to watch my dad tie a copper strand to his big toe while rolling his own tesla coils.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 09:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by mrgalleria
Nope.
None of the answers accurately addressed the issues.
A lot of "ifs" in the answers, too.
Fordrew- the Tesla coil is an inductive coil. The coil on your car is similar, and called a coil, not a transformer. But it may be called a transformer too, if it pleases you.
Air is a resister, though in cases of high humidity, that resistance is decreased. Unless you can get electrocuted putting your finger NEAR an electrical outlet, and the CONDUCTOR AIR passes the current to your finger.


Air does have a high resistance;(+ dry skin resistance is 10k ohm...I=e/r.) no you are correct current doesn't jump out of the wall outlet at only 120v
A capacitor is two plates separated by a dielectric( insulating) material; air is commonly used I am looking over my shoulder at an old "air" Radio tuning capacitor across the office now.

any coil IS an" inductor"!.two "COILS" inductively coupled ( close enough together be affected by each others magnetic fields )creates a "transformer".
an ignition coil IS a "STEP UP transformer". it has a primary winding insulated from a secondary winding.like any transformer.

a current flows through the primary say 10,000 windings ( it creates a magnetic field that includes the secondary windings. the current flow is stopped( points open or cdi box switches) the magnetic field in the primary now field collapses.

(a magnetic field moving across a conductor does what?"it creates a current". the energy stored in the primary winding of 10,000 turns induces a current in the 100 turns of secondary( at a STEP UP ratio of 10,000/100 OR 1000 X PRIMARY VOLTAGE .However Nothing( power) is free! no matter how many times I see it in all caps here if you step the voltage up 1000 times you are reducing the available current by 1000
edit on 22-2-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by 46ACE
 


Please read your Tesla coil details a little more thoroughly. To quote from the link you posted (near the end, emphasis added):



The output of a Tesla coil is maximized when two conditions are met. First, both the primary and secondary must oscillate at the same frequency. And secondly, the total length of conductor in the secondary must be equal to one quarter of the oscillator's wave length.


Although the Tesla coil relies on resonance to increase its output, both primary and secondary coils run at the same frequency. They have to, as one induces current flow in the other.


Thankyou I read the first line and presumed the secondary side could conceiveably run at a harmonic( a multilple of the input freq.).

whoops


seems I gotmystepup/stepdown ratios backwards too: its been awhile since "booklernin'"



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:28 PM
link   
reply to post by 46ACE
 

how about a rotophase, do you think the third leg is that is generated
would be considered free power.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by mrgalleria
Nope.
None of the answers accurately addressed the issues.
A lot of "ifs" in the answers, too.
Fordrew- the Tesla coil is an inductive coil. The coil on your car is similar, and called a coil, not a transformer. But it may be called a transformer too, if it pleases you.
Air is a resister, though in cases of high humidity, that resistance is decreased. Unless you can get electrocuted putting your finger NEAR an electrical outlet, and the CONDUCTOR AIR passes the current to your finger.


Yeah current doesn't jump out of a wall outlet because the voltage is not high enough.

And I guess lightning is impossible too? That's just current flowing through air, which by your account is "nothing" but also a resistor, neither of which is really true.

This thread is another example of people making claims on a complete lack of scientific understanding, or at most a seriously flawed understanding.

I'm not going to de-bunk your claims, because the other nice folks in this thread already has. Nothing on your list is true, sorry!



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 11:06 PM
link   
reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 


Not at all. All it is, is a 3 phase motor running on single phase power. Once it's operating, the third phase of the motor is not consuming but rather producing voltage / current. That third phase isn't free. Power from single phase wired across L1 & L2 spin the motor and the windings within generate L3; in doing so the motor is consuming current from L1/L2 so no free energy.


edit on 2/22/2011 by abecedarian because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 11:29 PM
link   
reply to post by mrgalleria
 


Actually, the Tesla Coil is better described as a transformer, and all of those points can be explained by science that is not debated even by conspiracy theorists. (at least any I've seen)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 11:55 PM
link   
reply to post by abecedarian
 


i use to rewind motors for a living,
and we would make rotophases for customers, the fisrt
was a75hp. after 3 months of service the customer had a visit
from the power company wanting to know why their power consumption went down.
yes it will draw current off the the single phase lines but the third phase is from the winding and rotor.
if you use just one line from the input, and the other line is the generated line. you have what ever input
voltage is. if you put a amp clamp on it and watch. your only pulling amps off of the one leg in a single phase set up. and if use as a 3phase set up you have droped the 3 leg from power company and no current is drawn from them. except on phase a&b


edit on 22-2-2011 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 12:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
reply to post by 46ACE
 

how about a rotophase, do you think the third leg is that is generated
would be considered free power.


:Sorry I am a follower of lord kelvin!
lol
Energy cannot be created or destroyed it only can change state ( which ALWAYS incurs a loss) and eventually moves to a less energetic state ( ground),

re: "Roto phase" If I remember correctly I think you are referring to a phase converter"box" which is used to create 3 phase power out of a single incoming phase :I have only worked in faciities with fresh 480 v 3phase power coming out of the service panels and buss bars. So I have no experience with one, but I can generalize from the following: There are only a few things I am sure of:
1)There is no free energy.
2)Every political argument has shades of gray.
3) Perpetual motion machines are impossible.
4) A telemarketer will only call while your eyes are full of shampoo.
5)There is no free power appearing out of thin air with our current( no pun) technology.

I 've never seen a "rotophase".

So:
I "cheated" looked one up and this does appear to be what you are talking about:it
www.powerbankcanada.com...
the"roto phase" must spin a single phase motor on facility power turning a 3phase alternator ; or somehow stagger the incoming facility single phase with capacitors . because merely using a transformer with 3 secondarys won't provide the proper 120 degrees x3 phase shift. As 3 phase power is 3 input sine waves 120 degrees out of phase, transformer windings are 0 or 180 degrees out
Either way you are putting energy in somewhere; some of which is always lost.
Any power coming out of a transformer secondary winding( "leg") was induced from the primary or back fed from outside the circuit.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 12:49 AM
link   
Nope.
You don't get it because-
You are repeating and parroting the things that you believed as taught to you.
You have never taken the information by proving it to yourself.
Ask simple questions, and ask obvious questions.

High tension wires carry 10's or 100's of thousands of VOLTS without insulation,
and are only a few feet apart, even in very rainy weather.
Does the AIR conduct this very high voltage? No. Because air is not a conductor.
Other than a TESLA type COIL (as it is aptly named),
name the other devices which propel massive quantities of electricity into the air?
BTW- Lightning is not a DEVICE.
Lightning is caused when warm and cool air meet, as explained by NASA.
You don't understand this function, because you do not understand what keeps air warm.

Neither a COIL nor a transformer emit High Voltage, High Frequency electricity out of both ends,
with the exception of the Tesla COIL. The Tesla COIL IS grounded to earth, and NOT center tapped!
46ace said "Air can be be at ground potential while the voltage induced in the secondary is not."
There's your proof, a statement of utter confusion with no meaning,
to confuse someone without healthy thought processes.
46ace's link said "As the magnetic field collapses, it induces a current to flow in the inductor"
Yes, of course, only we are not told where the current is induced FROM.
Anyone know where it comes from?

chrOnaut said "They run at the same frequency."
Actually, No. The secondary can run hundreds or thousands of times the frequency of the primary.
It has nothing to do with the windings, because it has everything to do with where the current is induced FROM.
Take cold water from a tub, you get cold water. Take hot water from a tub, you get hot water.
Take/INDUCE high frequency electricity from it's source, you get high frequency electricity.

Also, the Tesla COIL secondary collects/induces thousands of times more amps
or watts than are applied to the primary.
More amps, more watts, and more volts. Induced. Taken.

IF air is a conductor, and increased humidity increase conduction, then Tesla and other inductive coils and transformers should increase output as humidity increases, if this discussion proves that air is a conductor.
The results show the opposite to be true.

The secondary is not oscillating as claimed.
The primary is causing current saturating the secondary to flow linearly.
The linear flow is instantly replaced by re-saturation of the copper winding by the present HV HF current.
Tesla Coil physicists say the sparks at the top of the COIL are a discharge, or are generated.
They are not, because that is not possible.
The sparks/HV HF electricity are vacuumed into the top, out of the air.
This is because the heat (as we know it) in the air is actually HV HF electricity.
The heat in the air is not energy from nothing.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 12:58 AM
link   
The mechanical oscillator is Tesla's truely incredible invention. The coil gets a lot of attention, but the MO is absolutely a stunning invention.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by mrgalleria
...
High tension wires carry 10's or 100's of thousands of VOLTS without insulation,
and are only a few feet apart, even in very rainy weather.
Does the AIR conduct this very high voltage? No. Because air is not a conductor.

Sufficient voltage can overcome the resistance of air and cause it to become ionized at which point electricity can and will flow between conductors. Power cabling carries anywhere from approximately 260V to well over 250kV. What's that mean, you may ask? That overhead power wiring can source anywhere from 260 to well over 250,000 Volts, nominal.

If you haven't noticed, residential power poles' cabling (typically 240V - 600V nominal) are usually rather close together, maybe just a few feet and with two or three conductors, and primary transmission lines can have cables separated by over 20 feet.

Why do those not arc?

Because of the separation between conductors, the voltages present on the wires are not enough to overcome the resistance of air, even humid air, and ionize it, even in the presence of high humidity / rain and rain. Rain, for what it's worth, is non-conductive as it's mostly devoid of any electrolytic substances: distilled water is a very, very weak conductor, if not even an insulator, whereas tap and even salt water conduct far more current than pure rain water will due to tap an salt waters' inclusion of ionic compounds such as salts (sodium chloride, magnesium chloride, calcium chloride, et all... and even the fluoride compounds).

Having said that, even though you should've already been aware, as the voltage on the cables rise, the separation between conductors likewise increases so that the distance between conductors is sufficiently large to prevent the voltages from ionizing the air between the conductors even when wet.

So, you've proven very little other than a little whine sounds dramatic.


Other than a TESLA type COIL (as it is aptly named),
name the other devices which propel massive quantities of electricity into the air?
BTW- Lightning is not a DEVICE.
Lightning is caused when warm and cool air meet, as explained by NASA.
You don't understand this function, because you do not understand what keeps air warm.


You're accurate, to a point, but your wording is wrong. No device "PROPELS" electricity in the air- any such device only creates the potential for electricity to ionize the atmosphere thus lowering the resistance between the source and ground potential and consequentially increasing the probability of a discharge. Lightning can be a result of when warm and cool air meet, yes, but not always. In general, it takes an imbalance between the static charges of air masses, or between and air mass an ground to create lighning.

But I could say an automotive ignition coil can discharge large amounts of electricity into the air. After all, this is a device that can take 12 volts DC and step it up to well over 40,000 volts- maybe even 60 or 80 thousand volts, which is enough to overcome the quenching attributes of a compressed atmosphere (140+ PSI in an engine versus 14.7 PSI at sea level), saturated with non-conductive hydrocarbons (a.k.a. gasoline) and STILL make a spark, ionizing the oxygen and such in that little cylinder enough so that a fire can begin and push that little piston down.

Matter-of-fact, I've seen Tesla Coil designs incorporating automotive ignition coils. Wonder why that is?
Stop and think a moment- if it can take 12V an turn around 60kV, why not pump it with 120V and get 600kV?

Do your homework.



Neither a COIL nor a transformer emit High Voltage, High Frequency electricity out of both ends,
with the exception of the Tesla COIL. The Tesla COIL IS grounded to earth, and NOT center tapped!

An ignition coil on a vehicle is not center tapped either: the (+) terminal of the coil is common to the primary and secondary coils and is supplied +12v (nominal), the (-) terminal is a switched ground for the primary controlled by the points or other ignition triggering device, and the secondary windings ground through the spark plugs / electrodes when the field of the primary collapses and induces voltage onto the secondary windings.
[Some references reverse the primary / secondary terminology. Positive ground vehicles' coils operate similarly but the connections to the coil are reversed.]

And FWIW, the automobile ignition coil is descendent from a Tesla Coil:

The disruptive discharge Tesla coil is an early predecessor of the "ignition coil" in the ignition system as was invented in 1891. Tesla also gained U.S. Patent 609,250, "Electrical Igniter for Gas Engines", on August 16, 1898. The principles of the modern ignition coil used today is based on this design. A. Atwater Kent, in 1921, patented the modern form of the ignition coil.


So yet again... you've proven nothing.


46ace said "Air can be be at ground potential while the voltage induced in the secondary is not."
There's your proof, a statement of utter confusion with no meaning,
to confuse someone without healthy thought processes.
46ace's link said "As the magnetic field collapses, it induces a current to flow in the inductor"
Yes, of course, only we are not told where the current is induced FROM.
Anyone know where it comes from?


Yeah, the collapse of the field in the primary induces current (or rather voltage but due to Ohm's Law: I=V/R; can likewise mean current) into other coil (the secondary) in the transformer, a.k.a. coil, winding, etc. Just like a Tesla Coil does.

Next question?


chrOnaut said "They run at the same frequency."
Actually, No. The secondary can run hundreds or thousands of times the frequency of the primary.
It has nothing to do with the windings, because it has everything to do with where the current is induced FROM.
Take cold water from a tub, you get cold water. Take hot water from a tub, you get hot water.
Take/INDUCE high frequency electricity from it's source, you get high frequency electricity.


ACTUALLY, NO THEY CAN'T run at different frequencies as the period of collapse of the primary field induces current onto the secondary windings with the same period. HOWEVER, by altering the length of the secondary windings and orienting them in such a way that they are harmonic in resonance with the primary windings you can acheive the appearance of higher frequency but it is actually a result of phase cancellation between the collapse and rise of magnetic fields that cause that effect, it's a resonance and not an actual increase in frequency.... Catching on yet? Like in sound, when two notes of the same frequency but with differing distances to your ears cause a third tone to be perceived, such can occur with AC electricity.


Also, the Tesla COIL secondary collects/induces thousands of times more amps
or watts than are applied to the primary.
More amps, more watts, and more volts. Induced. Taken.


Okay, which is it? More Amps? More Watts? More Volts? Watts=Volts (X) Amps.


IF air is a conductor, and increased humidity increase conduction, then Tesla and other inductive coils and transformers should increase output as humidity increases, if this discussion proves that air is a conductor.
The results show the opposite to be true.


Come again?
Humidity increases the conductivity of air- absolutely. Does that mean transformers and such should put out more because of that? Absolutely not since transformers and such devices' outputs are determined by the physical properties of the windings within the coils (number of turns, orientation and separation, etc.) and not the air. Umm... duh?


The secondary is not oscillating as claimed.
The primary is causing current saturating the secondary to flow linearly.
The linear flow is instantly replaced by re-saturation of the copper winding by the present HV HF current.
Tesla Coil physicists say the sparks at the top of the COIL are a discharge, or are generated.
They are not, because that is not possible.
The sparks/HV HF electricity are vacuumed into the top, out of the air.
This is because the heat (as we know it) in the air is actually HV HF electricity.
The heat in the air is not energy from nothing.


Okay....
Secondary does oscillate at a frequency determined by the oscillation of the Primary.
Primary envelops the Secondary within a magnetic field, the collapse of which induces VOLTAGE onto the Secondary.
Linear... blah blah
Sparks at the top of a Tesla coil ARE a discharge resulting from an accumulation of (-) charge, much like a Van de Graaf generator except that the VDG is a static charge and a TC is not as the TC can actively build up sufficient charge to ionize the air and create sparks. The VDG doesn't have the potential to build as large of a charge as the TC, thus no spontaneous sparks into the air.

And I'll leave the rest of your babble alone.


edit on 2/23/2011 by abecedarian because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join