New Loughner Mug Shot Released

Originally posted by gwynned
Geeze, you're spending lots of time trying to debunk us debunkers, trying to prove to the mad crazy people here that we're mad and crazy. Whatsup with that?

Didn't take much time, and I'm not busy anyways, but.....

On the contrary, I had already given reasonable explanations for everything, and so have others.

All I was trying to do with that particular post, was to encourage others to accept common sense instead of embracing ignorance.

I believe it's the same person. The first picture is of Loughner with a look like he is on PCP, '___', or he's still amped up from his "mission". The second picture looks like it was taken later after he's calmed down. Both pictures are of the same person. However, It does seem as the pictures have been tampered with which makes me wonder why they would need to do so. Unless his lawyer is going to try the temporary insanity plea and use the mugshot with the wild look as evidence. And why the second mugshot? The theory to make him look tamer doesn't fly with me. He'll be convicted or found innocent on the evidence, not on a mugshot.

Originally posted by BrokenCircles

Originally posted by gwynned
Geeze, you're spending lots of time trying to debunk us debunkers, trying to prove to the mad crazy people here that we're mad and crazy. Whatsup with that?

Didn't take much time, and I'm not busy anyways, but.....

On the contrary, I had already given reasonable explanations for everything, and so have others.

All I was trying to do with that particular post, was to encourage others to accept common sense instead of embracing ignorance.

Doesn't common sense tell you that someone shot from 2-3 feet and suffers a bullet through the head would die almost immediately and not be eating three meals a day in a couple of weeks? When they told you that doctors operated for 2 hours, didn't common sense tell you that something wasn't right? Brain operations of this nature would take at least 10-12 hours. I'm using my common sense to question the official story. I might even go so far as to suggest you have relinquished your common sense in favor of unquestioning acceptance of an official story.

I think it comes down to this....whether you think those two photo's are of the same guy or not, I think everyone can agree that both have been tampered with in one way or another. Interestingly enough, the other day I was playing with a new photo program and decided for the heck of it to see if I could make tiny alterations to the "original" Loughner photo and make him look less crazy. (This was before these new photo's were released.) All I did was take out the moles, adjust the lighting, and soften the image a bit, and he looked significantly more normal. I did not change the structure of any of his facial features. The point being that it wouldn't have taken much "editing" of either photo to produce the effects they wanted. This is most likely what is going on in these two pictures....or is at least the more "logical" explanation.

With that being said, I think that the fact that they altered these pictures at all, casts doubt on everything they've told us about the case. I can see that all of the differences could potentially be caused by lighting, but that also means that they could easily replace a person, change the lighting, and let the public defend its authenticity. It's really not hard to find look alikes, and with the right lighting and touch ups, it's golden. In reality, with technology today, NO photo can really be proof of anything, either way. However, I have no idea WHY they would replace him with someone else. If these are not all photo's of the same person, then it's more likely that he didn't exist at all. Then again, how many Oswalds were there? I know there were at least 2.

As for witnesses, all the witnesses can really prove is that someone started shooting. In the chaos, I really doubt that any of them would be able to say with absolute certainty that the man in the photo's is the man that was doing the shooting. Eyewitness testimony is extremely unreliable anyway.

I'm not saying it's two different guys, and I'm not saying it's the same guy. Honestly I don't know....but there is some type of "fishy-ness" going on. That is for sure.....

reply to post by gwynned


The statements that you are making has nothing to do with the topic of this particular thread. The discussion that I have been a part of within this thread is ONLY about the 2 pics being of the same person. I have not made any comments at all about anything in the actual case. I have made no comments pertaining to my opinion of the event that happened. I have made no mention of guilt or innocence. All of my comments have been about pointing out the obvious that these 2 pics are of the same person.

Once again, I ask you to think before making a comment. You are coming to a conclusion of my thoughts and opinions on this case, where I have stated none.

reply to post by crimsonninja


Are you really glamorizing a serial killer... this crazy # has already had enough attention, to make the matter worse you are spreading this horse #.... you blow my mind

hmm he must be wearin make up and must of had an ear transplant, fore head looks longer as well, never knew there was surgery for that!... my 2 cents... peace

Originally posted by inkyminds

Originally posted by Doomzilla

See its so hard to argue on this because we don't know the full picture .

If he was unstable , and bear in mind a LOT of people have claimed this , why was nothing done ?

People fall through the craps of our gutted mental health system all the time.

REALLY ? so theres shooting like this "all the time " is there ??????

Why did Jareds parents not see that their son was mentally unstable ?

"Who says the didn't?"

WHO says THEY did ?

How did he pass the apptitude test for the army ?

When did he pass an aptitude tes for the army? He was rejected by them for undisclosed reasons.

IM NOT doin your work for you boy . suffice to say you have not researched .

How did he buy a gun ? and ammo ?

By going to a sporting goods store and having money. Arizona has VERY few regulations against buying handguns, little to no waiting period, etc.

WHY did he get refused the purchase of the ammo the 1st time then Einstein ?

Are yo sure you've researched this issue AT ALL?

Yes ive researched it more than You ! Ask Getsmart , pianopraze , filosophia and Crimson ninja ..

reply to post by filosophia


Is it really known when the pictures were taken? I mean for sure? Either way it doesn't matter the weight doesn't even look different really, it was just given as a possible way that a person could look slightly different in 2 different pictures. For me the other explanations given(lighting, perspective, facial expressions, camera, image specs.) are more than enough to explain that this is the same person.

It is my gut feeling that there is absolutely nothing to see here, it is the same person, the shooting and events surrounding it, even why the first picture was tampered with could be real conspiracies, but its the same guy in both pictures...

But I guess I'll entertain the idea, lets suppose that it is in fact 2 different people, why would they do that? What does it accomplish? In what way do they benefit from trying to play two different people off as the same person while risking their evil plot being exposed by people realizing the 2 pictures are not the same person. Is it being implied that one is innocent and the other is a controlled drone? Are they soldier clones? Is the whole thing faked?? I just don't get what the conspiracy is supposed to be.

Seems like people just want to make a mountain out of a mole hill... or rather, make a mountain out of tree...

reply to post by WielderOfTheSwordOfTruth


Why is every one hung up on the "its the same guy issue "?
IF it is the same person , then we can safely say they doctored the 1st mugshot _ You guys can say its down to lightning and contast if you want but il politely disagree . Maybe we will never know ?

Can we move on though and try and research other aspects of this case .
There are many discrepancies_

PS you heard of trailer park boys ? It was filmed where you live .

Originally posted by BrokenCircles
reply to post by gwynned

 

The statements that you are making has nothing to do with the topic of this particular thread. The discussion that I have been a part of within this thread is ONLY about the 2 pics being of the same person. I have not made any comments at all about anything in the actual case. I have made no comments pertaining to my opinion of the event that happened. I have made no mention of guilt or innocence. All of my comments have been about pointing out the obvious that these 2 pics are of the same person.

Once again, I ask you to think before making a comment. You are coming to a conclusion of my thoughts and opinions on this case, where I have stated none.

Okay. There are differences between the photos which could be explained using photoshop. Lighting would not change the shape of the ear lobe. Whether it's the same person or not, I can't tell, but at least the initial one was tampered with. Why?

reply to post by gwynned


You can survive a gunshot to the head.

today.msnbc.msn.com...

lavrai.com...

reply to post by Doomzilla


I agree with every point of your post, if you noticed, both of my previous posts note the fact the first picture was tampered with. I'm not saying there's nothing fishy going on with this guy and with what happened, but I think everyone's so hung up on the "its the same guy issue" because that was what the OP was asking for our opinions on. The only way its not the same person IMO is if ones a clone or something, which obviously there is no proof of but really I wouldn't be surprised if it were the case. And yeah we'll probably never know.

And hell yeah I've heard of Trailer Park Boys! Hilarious show, and yeah its from here. They film all around Halifax, and its a pretty small world around here, my friend has partied with Mr. Lahey a bunch of times and he also goes to a bar near my cottage haha, I've never met him but apparently he actually gets loaded and is hilarious like in the show. But yeah I love Wutang by the way. Anyway I'm way off topic soo....

reply to post by WielderOfTheSwordOfTruth


Lol TBp is my favourite show all the characters are amazing . Corey and Trevor ! lol .

On Topic -

I think your right , its the same guy but I can see how people would say it wasnt . I mean the 1st mughot is ridiculous , Im 80 % sure its been doctored .
However at this moment in time i'm not convinced that Loughner did this crime .
I believe he may been framed , I think the internet persona is planted.
Without any footage of the day it happened to verify its hard to believe he did it.
There may be a case to say that he didnt even know Giffords was there ( it was only announced 24 hours beforehand )

Peace man .
Wu tang killah bee bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

You can clearly see this is him and i SERIOUSLY wish people would stop seeing things that aren't there.
The only thing that may give some credibility to the whole ''its not him'' rubbish is that the first mugshot was photoshopped in places but i think that was to make him seem crazier.

To all with doubts or questions about this case please participate in this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com:80...

I want to try and accumulate our research and try to clarify a few things .

Thanks .
Peace .

reply to post by Viking9019


we just want a conspiracy!!! so hungry for one right now, deadly conspiracy, eggs and tomato

Originally posted by Doomzilla

Originally posted by inkyminds

Originally posted by Doomzilla

See its so hard to argue on this because we don't know the full picture .

If he was unstable , and bear in mind a LOT of people have claimed this , why was nothing done ?

People fall through the craps of our gutted mental health system all the time.

REALLY ? so theres shooting like this "all the time " is there ??????

Why did Jareds parents not see that their son was mentally unstable ?

"Who says the didn't?"

WHO says THEY did ?

How did he pass the apptitude test for the army ?

When did he pass an aptitude tes for the army? He was rejected by them for undisclosed reasons.

IM NOT doin your work for you boy . suffice to say you have not researched .

How did he buy a gun ? and ammo ?

By going to a sporting goods store and having money. Arizona has VERY few regulations against buying handguns, little to no waiting period, etc.

WHY did he get refused the purchase of the ammo the 1st time then Einstein ?

Are yo sure you've researched this issue AT ALL?

Yes ive researched it more than You ! Ask Getsmart , pianopraze , filosophia and Crimson ninja ..

I see. What an excellent refutation of carefully laid points. You have 'researched it', and your evidence is that i should contact other posters here.

Are you saying you are unaware of Arizona's gun laws?

Hi ATS friends,


I am posting a rapid summary image analysis of the new mugshot as compared to the first one released. I hope this will prove useful, and also I provide a link to another thread in this forum where much has been exposed regarding the Giffords shooting.


ATS Thread: Is the Loughner Mug Shot Fake?


Here's an update comparing the first picture allegedly taken of the culprit subdued at the scene of the shooting, and the second picture released more than a month later, showing the original Jared Lee Loughner with his blue eyes and different skull shape and facial characteristics.


LEFT: presumed mugshot of Jared / RIGHT: alleged mugshot of Shooter



There are a number of discrepancies between the 2 pictures. But first a few comments.


Neither "mugshot" should be called a mugshot because neither carries a reference board with numbers as is used in all professional law enforcement to identify suspects and prisoners. So these are informal "prisoner photos" which keeps the perpetrators who faked the pictures safe from prosecution because it can always be later established that there was a 'mix up' and unofficial pictures were somehow mysteriously substituted for the real ones?

Mugshot of 50 Cent's aka Curtis James Jackson III



To further explore this aspect of these pictures, let us take a look at what a Mugshot is supposed to look like.

The problem with mugshots' usage as a lineup tool lies with the uniformity of mugshots taken from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Whereas similar looking suspects presented in an unbiased photographic manner leads to identifications that can influence judges and juries, carelessly taken mugshots, mugshots with different lighting, different colored-backgrounds, disparate poses or aspect ratios may lead to bias in identifying perpetrators of crime - oftentimes leading to prosecutors determining that this type of evidence would be impermissible or worse the successful suppression of this type of evidence in courts of law. Thus, to create photographic arrays that consist of similar photographs fall into the hands of individuals making subjective decisions.

The NIST has developed the Best Practice Recommendation for the Capture of Mugshots. These practices, developed over the course of several years, were introduced in 1997 to mandate uniformity and consistency in mugshot taking. To create and maintain uniformity, NIST suggests standardization of the following photograph specifications:

Types of Poses
Depth of Field
Centering
Lighting
Background
Exposure
Aspect Ratio
Minimum Number of Pixels
Color Space
Pixel Aspect Ratio
Compression Algorithm
File Format

Source: Mugshot Capturing - NIST Best Practices

The first picture published had no reference background. The second one has no measurement markings in the lines behind the subject. Also it is uncharacteristic that the backgrounds would be sand colored, possibly to make it look more like the first released picture. Law enforcement use neutral backgrounds and many countries today refuse a sand background even for passport photos, requiring it to be white or very light gray.

The subject whose image is being captured shall be positioned in front of a background which is 18% gray with a plain smooth flat surface. A Kodak or other neutral gray card or densitometer shall be used to verify this 18% gray reflectance requirement.

Subject illumination shall be accomplished using a minimum of three (3) point balanced illumination. Appropriate diffusion techniques shall also be employed and lights positioned to minimize shadows, and to eliminate hot spots on the facial image. These hot spots usually appear on reflective areas such as cheeks
and foreheads. Proper lighting shall contribute to the uniformity of illumination of the background described in the exposure requirement.

Source: BEST PRACTICE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE CAPTURE OF MUGSHOTS

Hotspotting on the forehead, nose and right cheek, in addition to the evident photoshopping of the first alleged mugshot of the alleged suspect, make it a photograph which a Judge would throw away in court as unacceptable evidence. Furthermore both photos would have to be rejected due to the facial expression which is not accepted.


This I choose to enter as evidence that neither of the photographs submitted to the press for public release is an actual law enforcement mugshot.

Facial expression:

The expression should be neutral (non-smiling) with both eyes open normally (i.e. not wide-open), and mouth closed. Every effort should be made to have supplied images conform with this specification. A smile with closed jaw is not recommended.

Subject lighting:

Lighting shall be equally distributed on the face. There shall be no significant direction of
the light from the point of view of the photographer. The region of the face, from the crown to the base of the chin, and from ear-to-ear, shall be clearly visible and free of shadows. In particular, there shall be no dark shadows in
the eye-sockets due to the brow and the iris and pupil of the eyes shall be clearly visible.

Source: BEST PRACTICE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE CAPTURE OF MUGSHOTS

In both alleged mugshots Jared is "smirking" and either one or both of the brows cast a shadow on the eye = NOT a valid mugshot!


Now to address the issue of discrepancies in the two photos. First we will note that one pictures is very sharpened, almost to the point of distortion, while the other one is softened. This doesn't help in the comparison and it might be on purpose, maybe not. Secondly the head is tilted differently in each one. I didn't straighten it because there is another discrepancy, in the more recent picture he is full face while in the earlier picture his chin is slightly raised, slightly changing the perspective.


It is important to remember that Jared has a taller, broader forehead than the person photographed in the first picture which was further photoshopped to resemble him. This can be seen in the annotated photo comparison which you will find below. Take a long hard look at the vertical bone ridge above his right eye, which is highlighted in a pink rectangle. This should show you first that it isn't present on the first individual shown, to the right, and that the forehead proportions are very different meaning that unless Jared has a fully elastic skull bone this is NOT the same person.


Mugshots compared - note the differences



As I stated earlier, the V-shaped vertical bone ridge on the forehead circled in above in BLACK is absent on the first mugshot released. Notice also the SIZE of the Pink Rectangle. It reaches the same two points. This demonstrated that their foreheads are very different shaped, the slight angle shift between pictures being too minute to explain such a discrepancy. Also, the wound on the forehead at the top of the pink rectangle is not in the same location, and seems more healed in the first picture than in the recent one, both of these discrepancies are not easily explained away.


Importantly, the EYES are NOT THE SAME COLOR regardless of lighting. The color of the eyes on the latest Mugshot released brings to mind that the latest (second) mugshot released could very well be the real Jared, at least it seems to be very similar to that of the photos of Jared taken in recent years. Jared's eyes were called BLUE in all his Pima Community College Police Incident Reports and we can see that in the second picture that is likely, but in the first one who would call that color blue?.


Next we have a further incompatibility with the mouth size and location. First the mouth on the first mugshot is a good bit larger. This is because it is another man, and mouth size is something which plastic surgery cannot correct. They clearly went with as close a match for other parameters, and hoped to distract from the mouth size discrepancy by adding the photoshopped "Joker smile" to sidetrack the viewer. Also in addition to being a good bit wider and having fuller lips, the mouth is located a good bit closer to the nose, and this even though the photo angle with his head slightly raised would tend to increase this proportion subjectively. This can be seen better by circling the respective zones in RED. The smaller nose to lip distance is further evidence that the first man photographed, presumably the perpetrator of the Giffords Shootings, is a surgically modified impostor and not Jared.


In RED: Mouth size and distance to nose



Next let's take a look at ear biometrics and a few rudiments of technical terms for comparison purposes.


Ear helix biometrics


Source: Wikipedia


Tthe general shape of the ear cartilage is quite different. There are also specific areas of the ears which are sensibly unmatched. The Right ear circled in YELLOW shows a different Tragus in each person, and the lobe is far more fleshy with thicker cartilage on the impostor. The Left ear circled in GREEN shows a differently shaped bottom to the Helix in addition to a different lobe.


In YELLOW and GREEN: Multiple Ear shape inconsistencies



I will venture further so suggest that the second mugshot may have had the neck photoshopped. This is based upon the far thinner neck on Jared in earlier pictures, the fact that Pima Community College Police reported his build as thin which wouldn't explain a thickened neck, and the fact that in the second pair of mugshots the Profile view shows a distinctly peaked Adam's Apple which doesn't show up at all in the Front view. I venture to suggest that the perpetrator's thicker neck may have been grafted onto the picture of Jared in the second series frontal view. From the side his neck looks thin, but from the front it looks thick, most necks are wider front to back than side to side.


Second set of mugshots with unmatched necks?



I also believe that we were not shown a Profile of the first man photographed upon arrest because the surgically modified Agency Impostor passed as a good double from the front but probably had a very different skull shape when seen in Profile. This would explain why we were not given a full set of mugshots, front and profile, for the first man arrested who has since probably been removed from detention and most likely permanently been disposed of.


These are my first reactions to these new pictures, proving to me beyond the shadow of a doubt that the man pictured in the first photograph, if he was indeed the man arrested upon the scene of the shooting, is NOT Jared Loughner.


Getsmart