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Does Truth = Peace?

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posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Truth does not equal reality, no matter how many times you repeat it.
Truth may equal reality in the locked down laws of the physical, but that is not what is being argued here.
Plus even there truth does not equal peace it equals flux.

Truth equals what YOU believe it is.

Reality equals what happens.

Truth cannot equal peace simply because you will never have universal agreement on the definition of truth, unless it is introduced and rigorously enforced through the initiation of violence and conformity through fear.

That is reality, was, is and maybe it always will be.

There are not many who practice enlightened self-interest. Most simply practice self-interest.




posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by Noncompatible
Truth does not equal reality, no matter how many times you repeat it.


I have to disagree on this idea.

For example, lets have and idea, that is universally true, such as..

1+1 = 2 (..two of the ones, when we consider the both 1's being equal copies of eachother..)

..now saying that 1+1=3 (..three of the ones, we consider being equal copies of eachother..) is a statement I would find being universally untrue.

The conditions for 1+1 sprouting 3 can be discussed (as that is well possible and propable in the physichal world to emerge - since all physical is multidimensional, and timeless by its very nature), but then we are taking the 1's out of their context - the context of observing the frozen idea of an amount (1) - and observing another copy of that same amount alongside it.

When we say however, a multidimensional 1 and a multidimensional 1 (without predetermined boundaries at the stage of idea) added together makes 3, 4, or whatever we want it to be - that is true.. Because in that case we are talking about ones, that we believe can change.. But when are talking about 1's that we believe to have a boundary, that boundary exists in our idea of one, and therefor the idea of adding such ones together will produce an universally true result, as 1+1 = 2..

edit: I would say, saying the truth equals a real connection with another being - not an acted one (is something that would also hold universal trueness).
edit on 23-2-2011 by Jussi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


S&F

Thank you for your post, I believe this concept is correct.

Rationalizing or reinventing the truth with 'spin' for ones own advantage is possibly the most fundamental antagonist principle.

If humanity were to know the absolute truth in all matters there probably wouldn't be any case for wars or arguments, because the truth would be known.

My own life quest, so to speak, is for finding the absolute truth in everything, for only then can any true opinion be formed and from true realizations, true advancements are made.

ps glanced at your plasma article earlier from a link on plasma thread, will have more of a read when have more time, but sounds interesting.
edit on 23-2-2011 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-2-2011 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by Jussi
 


just a little debunking of your theory, with the best intentions.....

the assumption of 1+1=2 as a universal truth, is just that, an assumption, there are most probably cases where it isn't a truth, therefore it cannot stand as a truth on which to base anything.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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Truth and violence are different concepts:

- the truth of nature is that there is violence everywhere. I watched one day as a duck was limping off the road, I only believe hit by a car, when another duck came over and tried to make love to it. This is violence and it is the truth

- On the other hand, violence only begets more violence, whether at an individual or social level [Serbia showed this where "wrongs" were being "righted" because X group had killed Y group - please add your own name to X or Y depending on which side of the war you believe were right]. Revenge consumes you in the wrong way

I do understand that there is only ONE way of breaking the circle of violence and revenge and actually living in peace; hence the reason why the word FORGIVENESS is so important



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by Jussi
 


just a little debunking of your theory, with the best intentions.....

the assumption of 1+1=2 as a universal truth, is just that, an assumption, there are most probably cases where it isn't a truth, therefore it cannot stand as a truth on which to base anything.


Hmm..

We are now talking about the idea of 1's, not 1 apple and another apple, for example...

There can be 2 different ideas of 1, first one being that it is always equal to itself when added onto itself, and the another one being, that it must not be equal to itself when it is added to itself - but when we talk about a never changing 1, that is always equal to itself, then it is universally true to say that such 1 + 1 = 2.

This is to say, on the stage of mind and logic, we can have universal truths..

Such as, if I am thinking the word "spectacular" - and tell it, and I am really thinking about it - then it is universally true that I am thinking the word.. (regardless of what anyone else believes)
edit on 23-2-2011 by Jussi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by Mr Tranny
 

Hi all, I'm pretty new to ATS, so I hope you don't mind my jumping in to your interesting discussion.



Very simple question. If someone did not intentionally initiate violence, steal or damage someone/something, but their actions resulted in violence stolen or damaged people/things, then are they innocent?

Here come da judge, here come da judge,
But, how can I be guilty, your honor? My car suddenly veered when my tire blew and everyone scrambled to get out of my way. I didn't see the nails in the road. So sorry if people were hurt in the process.

Innocent of intending deliberate harm, but responsible for it nonetheless. Semantics?

-If truth were equal to peace then why do men have to learn not to be blatantly truthful when asked if an outfit makes her look fat?

-To me truth does not equal peace, but it's a great objective to have. Some truths are self-evident. Water is wet, and most people get wet when they take a water bath. (Leaving lots of room here for youngsters who insist they did have a bath)

In terms of peace, everyone's truth is different and relative to our own perception. And on this they may be miles apart. It is only when there is agreement to acknowledge the other's perception of truth that peace steps can be worked on, by setting agreed goals and agreed limits of behavior.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by templar knight
 


on a base level this may appear to be the case, however, thinking on a far deeper level, the absolute truth, as a realization, is something of universal / multiversal level encompassing all dimensions and all forms of life and matter / anti matter / dark / light energies / synergies and interactions and can only be known as a realization, something humanity appears to be gravitating towards and I believe to be on a much higher dimension than the physical plane, as such this higher dimension of absolute truth is that of Eden / Nirvana / Heavenly type status where the very vibrational energies are akin to such Oneness and higher energies that only true Love energies, for want of a better word, could exist. There are many books that explain this concept, possibly more effectively than my little explaination but hopefully I am making sense.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by Jussi
[mo

as any known ''1'' or shall we say ''a'', are unlikely to be exactly the same, subjected to exactly the same forces and having exactly the same history, then there is no quantifiable ''a'' as a constant.

'a*' could have an altered chromosome / molecule / part (though still appearing to look and act like a standard 'a') and 'a~' could have similar alteration or being subjected to forces that could render it 'a' with ultra active atoms under pressure' (therefore still looking like standard 'a' but in a state of molecular realignement)

...wherein both 'a*' and 'a~' are both typically 'a' in characteristic, neither are exactly the same and neither could be expected to have similar capacities or to react in exactly the same manner when subjected to the same forces.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


This is true if things stay the same and they won`t, humans will get fresh hardisk install via dna change.

It will be like going from windows 98 with a 486 processor and 128 mb memory, 15 inch monitor,256 k modem internet connection with all kinds of malware and viruses , to a freshly installed intel i7 computer with 8 gb memory and Windows 7, 100 mb internet connection and a 26 inch monitor.

The change will be more then noticable, it will be like night and day believe me. For some the change will appear to be gradually and for some it will be a lightbulb moment, depending on their spiritual awareness and development.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Socrates stated that all "evil" (crime, violence, etc...) is derived from ignorance. Which is pretty much everything you just said, except much simpler!

An interesting read. Much thanks!



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by Jussi
[mo

as any known ''1'' or shall we say ''a'', are unlikely to be exactly the same, subjected to exactly the same forces and having exactly the same history, then there is no quantifiable ''a'' as a constant.

'a*' could have an altered chromosome / molecule / part (though still appearing to look and act like a standard 'a') and 'a~' could have similar alteration or being subjected to forces that could render it 'a' with ultra active atoms under pressure' (therefore still looking like standard 'a' but in a state of molecular realignement)

...wherein both 'a*' and 'a~' are both typically 'a' in characteristic, neither are exactly the same and neither could be expected to have similar capacities or to react in exactly the same manner when subjected to the same forces.


Yes, this is exactly what I am meaning,

but we are talking about a 1 on the level of idea. You see. That is way different than "1" in physical existence.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by josheboyxiii
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Socrates stated that all "evil" (crime, violence, etc...) is derived from ignorance. Which is pretty much everything you just said, except much simpler!

An interesting read. Much thanks!


Perhaps we could conclude that violent behaviour is most likely to appear when someone is trying to prevent an unwanted outcome by force - and usually that unwanted possible outcome is only a mental image - or "misunderstanding" of the real nature of the thing..

So it can be both a lie coming from 2 directions that will cause irrational violence, a lie coming from the outside (like 911 stuff) and a lie coming from the inside (an assumption, based on misunderstanding or understanding only a part of what is being comprehended - which depends upon the mental processes of the person).

I'm still having trouble to see it in a similar way as to ignorance or lying being the source of violent behaviour.

I also see this behaviour in men as origination from communicating with other species on the planet, that might themselves not have respected humans.. (animals like a disrespectful lion for example etc.)
edit on 23-2-2011 by Jussi because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-2-2011 by Jussi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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Nice to see that there are others on the board that see that mathematics, and therefore logic and reason, are very abstract principles used to apply order and a sense of finite understanding to an otherwise seemingly infinite world of chaos.

2nd line.

one is approximately equal to one, and therefore, one plus one is approximately equal to two, depending on constraints and necessities.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


exactly, allowing for approximations makes all the difference when dealing with truth.

the fact that there are approximations ie. variances then results have to allow for variables under circumstances.

Besides, this isn't about how true 1+1 is, this is about truth, and the truth of the matter is that, like most things there are approximations and variables, and mathematics also factors these in, generally.

The best scientists think outside the box, it's in recognising flaws and inconsistencies in 'established' principles and how the flaws of such could be standing in the way of comprehending truths in other phenomena that the great thinkers see the light, ie truth, in situations, the light bulb moment that creates leaps in scientific thought and advances in technology.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 08:00 PM
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" Irrational actions require self-delusion"

I don't agree with that at all, Women can behave "irrationally" intentionally, they do it often. That of course is from an onlookers perception. Therefore, "Irrational actions" is an incomplete statement on it's own and needs enlargement in its context. Fear might be a good add-on.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by Jussi

Originally posted by Noncompatible
Truth does not equal reality, no matter how many times you repeat it.


I have to disagree on this idea.

For example, lets have and idea, that is universally true, such as..

1+1 = 2 (..two of the ones, when we consider the both 1's being equal copies of eachother..)

..now saying that 1+1=3 (..three of the ones, we consider being equal copies of eachother..) is a statement I would find being universally untrue.

The conditions for 1+1 sprouting 3 can be discussed (as that is well possible and propable in the physichal world to emerge - since all physical is multidimensional, and timeless by its very nature), but then we are taking the 1's out of their context - the context of observing the frozen idea of an amount (1) - and observing another copy of that same amount alongside it.

When we say however, a multidimensional 1 and a multidimensional 1 (without predetermined boundaries at the stage of idea) added together makes 3, 4, or whatever we want it to be - that is true.. Because in that case we are talking about ones, that we believe can change.. But when are talking about 1's that we believe to have a boundary, that boundary exists in our idea of one, and therefor the idea of adding such ones together will produce an universally true result, as 1+1 = 2..

edit: I would say, saying the truth equals a real connection with another being - not an acted one (is something that would also hold universal trueness).
edit on 23-2-2011 by Jussi because: (no reason given)


Well thought out. Not however relevant in the context of truth=peace.
Truth in this context is subjective, not a scientific framework for the understanding of how "stuff" works.
I stand by my original post, as philosophical debate and hard science rarely blend well.



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 03:56 AM
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reply to post by Jussi
 


then there would be more than one truth in such an evaluation

non variable ''a'' giving non variable results

variable ''a'' giving variable results



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 05:47 AM
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First I apologise if this is off topic. There's something I would like to draw to peoples attention, and I have no idea how to make a post.....not very good on this sort of thing

It's to do with a march on the 6th March 2011 that will hopefully take place all over the world.Just wondering if maybe someone on here might be interested in doing a post about it to get the word out. Thanks in advance

This is an excerpt from the link that follows after it:-

On Sunday, March 6, 2011, the freedom-loving people of this planet agree to peacefully assemble in all town squares around the world at 12:00 noon to liberate the planet. This gathering will be known as World Freedom Day.

We demand the following for our world and will not rest until these goals are met:

(1) All wars on Earth will end.
(2) All dictatorships, despots and undemocratic regimes will resign.
(3) All crime will be eradicated.
(4) All oppression, exploitation, and enslavement of people will end.


stevebeckow.com...:



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by theabsolutetruth
 


i have to disagree with you 1+1=2 or we can genralize it . if you take a set amount of something and add the exact amount to that you have doubled that amount or 1+1= 2. that statment will hold up anywhere no matter who you are or what you believe; 1+1=2



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