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Indiana Democrats Flee State To Block Anti-Union Bill: Reports

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posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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Oh, and by the way . . .





Ohio's most crippling handicap may be that its politicians -- and thus its employers -- are still in the grip of such industrial unions as the United Auto Workers. Ohio is a "closed shop" state, which means workers can be forced to join a union whether they wish to or not. Many companies -- especially foreign-owned -- say they will not even consider such locations for new sites. States with "right to work" laws that make union organizing more difficult had twice the job growth of Ohio and other forced union states from 1995-2005, according to the National Institute for Labor Relations.

On the other hand, Texas is a right to work state and has been adding jobs by the tens of thousands. Nearly 1,000 new plants have been built in Texas since 2005, from the likes of Microsoft, Samsung and Fujitsu. Foreign-owned companies supplied the state with 345,000 jobs. No wonder Texans don't fear global competition the way some Presidential candidates do.

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Eat that Union lovers
edit on 2/22/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: Fixed Formatting




posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


Well, it was a first and a last, voting that is, as nothing seems to really change, you sacrifice one evil for another. If Feingold had won the elections, he'd be the extremist now instead of Walker, under different circumstances of course. Walker has corruption of course as well, allowing construction for a sewage treatment plant in a wetland area that used to be protected until him. Debts are coming due, both sides are scrambling to make heads or tails of things. The future grows more and more interesting for sure. Again, I can only sit back and smile at things, giggle inside, it is what we made it. Why worry, why cry, why hate, I guess I did with name calling on Feingold... I'm sorry... I admit my wrongs. It's hard to ride along and not get caught up in things.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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Want to save jobs? Force China to reevaluate their currency and put tariffs on imports from China.

Also, close the border and say you'll forcibly close down corporations who use illegal labor by January 1 2012.

Also close the big banks who screwed the world, close the FED and bring the troops back home.


Start with that and you'll be somewhere.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
Want to save jobs? Force China to reevaluate their currency and put tariffs on imports from China.

Also, close the border and say you'll forcibly close down corporations who use illegal labor by January 1 2012.

Also close the big banks who screwed the world, close the FED and bring the troops back home.


Start with that and you'll be somewhere.


Add:

And if the chinese try to use the debt of ours that they hold to push us around, simply tell them, "What debt? And who else is going to buy the lead-laced junk you produce?".



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by G.A.G.
So it seems Illinois is fast becoming a "safe" harbor for tyrannical, elected public servants, that have been masquerading around as democrats. Is Illinois "the island"?

can we put up a fence with one way turn styles??



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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Hey remember dem's these are the guys YOU elected! Good job!


They are acting like little kids who won't eat their vegetables...



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


"Right To Work" also means that people can get a free ride off the Unions negotiating for better wages and conditions, which sets a precedent for businesses to meet if they want to be able to hire competitively, without having to pay Union dues or put their necks on the line for other people the way those other people put their necks out for the scabs. "Forcing" people to join Unions allows the Unions to be as strong as the number of people they're ACTUALLY benefiting----not just the number of people BRAVE enough and PRINCIPLED enough to actually stand with their fellow workers so no one gets thrown under the bus. If Unions were so horrible, NO ONE in any RTW states would ever join one, right? And as the poster a few below you points out, there are in fact some Unions in these states that have managed to retain some amount of collective power. Few and far between, but a few.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by G.A.G.
So it seems Illinois is fast becoming a "safe" harbor for tyrannical, elected public servants, that have been masquerading around as democrats. Is Illinois "the island"?

can we put up a fence with one way turn styles??


They won't do it for Mexico . . . what makes you think they will do it for Illinois



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


Read my reply right before this one.

You managed to find a few Unions in a RTW state. Bully for you.


Now try to get a job there. Bet they mention how they're going to pay you "Union-competitive wages". And I'll laugh in your face when your job gets axed with no explanation because the boss spent too much money on his mistress and there must be budget cuts, or they triple your health insurance costs and you get no options. What a privilege.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by ForestForagerAgain, I can only sit back and smile at things, giggle inside, it is what we made it. Why worry, why cry, why hate, I guess I did with name calling on Feingold... I'm sorry... I admit my wrongs. It's hard to ride along and not get caught up in things.


Hey, right on. You're cool by me. I really respect those who can say "mea culpa."

And I agree, this whole thing is hilarious for those of us who aren't so immediately affected. This whole political situation we're in is just ridiculous; I sometimes wonder where we could possibly go from here. Then I look back in history and see our founding fathers calling each other baby-eaters, and it puts it all in perspective. This IS politics as usual in America. Always has been. Sigh.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 

. . .

You managed to find a few Unions in a RTW state. Bully for you.


I know. I did more than that. I caught you with your foot in your mouth . . . TWICE!

And there are more than a few. You said there were no IT Unions. There are at least 4 that I found on the first google link.

There is more.

Have a gander


Now try to get a job there.


I do work here!



Bet they mention how they're going to pay you "Union-competitive wages".


Nope.

Was asked if I wanted to join, but declined.


And I'll laugh in your face when your job gets axed with no explanation because the boss spent too much money on his mistress and there must be budget cuts


My boss has a mistress. That would mean she is at least bi. But she is not hot, so meh. Almost got me excited.

The joke is on you, becaue the employeers need a valid reason to fire someone, or they get to pay for unemployment.

Great how that works. Do your job, and you keep your job. Slack off, and you get fired, and have to find a new job in 90 days or lose unemployment. Fired for nothing? The employeer pays for your unemployment until you find work.


, or they triple your health insurance costs and you get no options.


Nope. It has stayed about the same for 8 years now. I started with the Cadillac plan,l but I am young, and it is a waste, so I downgraded to basic plus dental and vision.

Oh, and we are part of a Coop, so it is cheaper than normal too.


What a privilege.


Indeed. All states should follow the lead of Texas.



See you back here when you feel like getting face rolled again.


Adios.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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Here's another thought that may help put this issue in perspective.

On one issue, the left - which seems to also include include union leaders if not membership - being "pro choice" is a key part of their philosophy.

But not on the issue of union membership. On this issue, to the left it is somehow OK to force people to do what they say they believe in. No pro choice on union membership. Why?

Is this not an example of hypocrisy? I think it is ...


edit on 2/22/2011 by centurion1211 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


LOL, you're hilarious.

So you come in here bragging about your sweet health plan that has apparently defied the laws of economics forever now, and your legal protection against totally unreasonable firing (knowing nothing, obviously, about WHO got those laws on any books in the first place, and who you have to thank for making that the federal minimum standard) and then act like you "know" what Unions are about?

Way to pwn yourself. Later, sweetheart.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 10:53 PM
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Notice how no pro-union person can or will answer the philosphical questions I have raised on this issue:

1 - why have to force union membership when it supposedly is so beneficial to the workers?

and

2 - if pro choice is an important part of union (left) philosophy, why not pro choice on union membership?

If these questions cannot be answered by the pro-union people here, it seems to me that not only is their argument lost, in fact they have no argument.
edit on 2/22/2011 by centurion1211 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


I already answered the first question like 5 or 6 posts above yours:



"Right To Work" also means that people can get a free ride off the Unions negotiating for better wages and conditions, which sets a precedent for businesses to meet if they want to be able to hire competitively, without having to pay Union dues or put their necks on the line for other people the way those other people put their necks out for the scabs. "Forcing" people to join Unions allows the Unions to be as strong as the number of people they're ACTUALLY benefiting----not just the number of people BRAVE enough and PRINCIPLED enough to actually stand with their fellow workers so no one gets thrown under the bus.


And the second question isn't logical----you really think the only people who support unions are bleeding-heart liberals? Unions aren't "leftist", they're pro-worker. America is not as black-and-white as I think you maybe assume it is.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
And the second question isn't logical----you really think the only people who support unions are bleeding-heart liberals? Unions aren't "leftist", they're pro-worker. America is not as black-and-white as I think you maybe assume it is.


Really?

Then why are your union dues spent exclusively on promoting democrats and their causes?

Why are you told how to vote and it's always for a democrat?

Why are you even OK with the people you are forced to give money to telling you what to do and how to think and how to vote?

What, you can't decide any of these things for yourself? For free?

Imagine that all the people you see demonstrating on TV actually "think" like this ...


edit on 2/22/2011 by centurion1211 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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reply to post by 00nunya00
 


Hmm.

I put my neck on the line by being a good employee.

That gives me bargaining rights in itself.

If I do not like what my employer is paying. I pack it up, and move to another who pays what I want.

Best of both worlds. Good pay, and do not have to waste money on dues.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by centurion1211
 


I already answered the first question like 5 or 6 posts above yours:

"Right To Work" also means that people can get a free ride off the Unions negotiating for better wages and conditions, which sets a precedent for businesses to meet if they want to be able to hire competitively, without having to pay Union dues or put their necks on the line for other people the way those other people put their necks out for the scabs. "Forcing" people to join Unions allows the Unions to be as strong as the number of people they're ACTUALLY benefiting----not just the number of people BRAVE enough and PRINCIPLED enough to actually stand with their fellow workers so no one gets thrown under the bus.


It would make sense, if the unions "negotiating for better wages", etc. hadn't ended up sending a bunch of union jobs to other countries such as mexico and china.

In hindsight, I'm sure many Americans formerly employed in union jobs that no longer exist in America would gladly forego union membership if they could only have their jobs back.


edit on 2/22/2011 by centurion1211 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Then why are your union dues spent exclusively on promoting democrats and their causes?

Why are you told how to vote and it's always for a democrat?


Repub endorsement #1
#2
#3
#4

Shall I go on?


Why are you even OK with the people you are forced to give money to telling you what to do and how to think and how to vote?


No one is forced to join a union. No one is forced into a trade or career; many careers have federal or state guidelines than many think are unreasonable. As a doctor, you adhere to certain laws and ethics and maintain your continuing medical education, or you lose your license. They "force" you to get a medical license and abide by certain stricter laws than the normal person. Does that mean they're evil tyrants for enforcing this? No, it means there's a set of guidelines for being in a career in a certain state that you either abide by or you don't work in that career in that state.

Plus, there's a few types of union states, which allow an array of union membership or non-membership options. "Closed-shop" or forced joining of a union before hiring is allowed was outlawed 60 years ago.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 11:57 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


Okay, let's assume you're right about this. Let's take a look at some of the conditions the unions were up against:
-Salaries of less than a dollar a day.
-No work safety laws.
-No corporate taxes for the public services they consume.
-No child labor laws (cha-ching)

Are we really to believe that there was ANYTHING short of matching these conditions that would have kept the companies in the US? Why would any company that cares about its bottom line choose the country with standards over the country willing to exploit its own people?



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