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the god of the bible is an evil god

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posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by Brown
I hate it when people use the same excuse to hate Christians " Christians always to force there way of life (religion,Bible,etc.) down other peoples throats." I don't know anyone that does that and I live in a Catholic family with an atheist sister and we don't care if she believes in God or not. The only place they do that is in church or on the church channel.

Sorry just had to get that last part out.


If you really, in your heart believe in Christianity and believe that it is the only way to heaven then how could you not care if your sister believes?




posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 09:45 PM
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I would like to know of the people responding to threads like this concerning God(Jesus Christ) who has read the Bible all the way through at least once? Both OT and NT



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
I would like to know of the people responding to threads like this concerning God(Jesus Christ) who has read the Bible all the way through at least once? Both OT and NT


I have read it from cover to cover repeatedly. I was raised in a Christain family, went to Christian school, took New Testament Studies as my humanities in college and was even a Sunday school teacher. I know the bible better than most of my so called "Christian" friends (old and new testaments).

However, based on years of research both within and without Christianity, I have since left Christianity and firmly believe it is a false religion at this point.



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 10:43 PM
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So what was the final thing or combination of things that said to you this can't be true? I'm talking personal things too.



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 10:57 PM
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preach it bad kitty.
i too have studied the bible, read it cover to cover, wanted to be an evangelist in college. i consider myself an armchair scholar.
the bible breaks down when you read it just as a book, with no hidden agenda to prove or disprove anything. that is when those that can see, see it for what it is. the inconsistencies become the glaring truth. if you read about the oldest culture, the sumerians, and say compare it with other religious traditions, the bible takes on a very different meaning altogether and it finally makes sense.
when you learn about the process of canonization and the council of nicea,
the truth becomes crystal clear.
or at least that is some of what did it for me.....



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
So what was the final thing or combination of things that said to you this can't be true? I'm talking personal things too.


Thre wasn't one particular thing but rather it was a culmination. Though I had disputed it for years, I finally admited to myself that there really are contradictions in the bible. There is also a lot of violence, murder, incest, rape and savagry. Many Christians say they don't "follow" the old testament or "the old testament" doesn't apply to us. But the whole basis of Christianity is the belief that Jesus is the messiah predicted by the Jews of the old testament. It is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. So I believe it is hypocrytical or dilussionary at best to think you can accept the new testament and reject the old. And while I still believe that Jesus taught some wonderful things that are basic truths of life - if I cannot accept the old testament how can I accept the fulfillment of it?

But that wasn't the final straw. I then started thinking about the thinking. Yes, thinking. Why would God give us reson and intellect (the primary thing that makes us different than other animals) then require that we completely suspend the use of these in order to get to heaven. I mean, the bible teaches that the only way to get to heaven is "by grace through faith". So, forget using the brain you were given - just believe whatever the pastor/priest tells us? Huh?

Yet that was not the final starw for me - what really got me going was the fact that the oldest gospel is dates around 70 AD. 70 AD!!! That means no one thought it important to write down what "the messiah" said until 708 years after he died?!? And the ultimate problem for me - if Jesus really was God incarnate - I would think he himself would want to make sure that we all knew it and knew it correctly. So, if he was the messiah, why didn't he write down his words himself or dictate it to a desciple if he couldn't write? If he was the messiah then his life was the single most imortant event in human history and he surely would know that. So why didn't he make sure that we got it right? That exactly what we should know was written down, exactly the way he wanted it know? Is God toying with us? I doubt it - I guess this was the final straw for me. There is no way God would be so obtuse or ambiguous as to send the saviour but leave no record for history other than a few "supposed" eyewitness accounts lettered decades after his death. No way.

I believe that Jesus did live, and that he was a rebel (in a peaceful way) and a visionary and taught many great things. And these people were looking for a revolution - a political savior. And they thought it would be Jesus, but he failed them politically. So long after his death they got together and decided they could start their own revolution by hijacking this man's name and teachings and claim he was the savior of the world - and by the way, they are his heirs and the only link left to God. And there is no doubt that Christianity changed the political landscape of the world even to this day.



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by dr goodrich
preach it bad kitty.
if you read about the oldest culture, the sumerians, and say compare it with other religious traditions, the bible takes on a very different meaning altogether and it finally makes sense.
when you learn about the process of canonization and the council of nicea,
the truth becomes crystal clear.
or at least that is some of what did it for me.....


Hi Dr. G. - these are some other elements that lead me to disbelieve the bible. Especially the fact that key biblical stories (ie the flood) are proven to be mere copies of ancient sumariean stories. Now that doesn't mean these things didn't happen - maybe they did, maybe they are just folklore. The fact is, these were not inspired by God and dicated to Moses as the bible claims. The bible is riddled with inconsitencies and decpetions. And don't even get me started on the cannonizatoin - that new testament class I took in college helped me to see the dept of human influence in the bible as we know it. Ever read any of the lost gosples (ie - Thomas or Mary Magdelen)? I see why they left them out - it would take power away from the church - after all if "God is in us and all around us, not in buildings of wood and stone" as Thomas says, then what need have we of a church?

But I have to admit - Christanity is a very powerful cult. I was literally afraid for my eternal soul when I began to question it. I was even afraid to question. To this day (I am 38 years old) I have not told my father that I don't believe because he would probably begin an exorcism immediately. But what a relief it was when I finally realized and belived it was false. I felt like a weight was lifted from my solders. Christianity is all about fear - now it is gone.

P.S. - Love your avatar!


[edit on 17-7-2004 by badkitty]



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 11:42 PM
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Kitty,

I would like to talk to you about these things you have said, but this thread is not the place to do it. If the topic is open for discussion with you, could you start a thread in BTS and copy/paste these posts of yours there?

.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO
Why would a jealous God be saying its ok to worship other gods, as long as you worship me first? That's rather like a jealous girlfriend saying its ok to date other people as long as you don't cancel dates with her. That just doesn't happen.


Your own argument hurts your case here.
Why would Yaweh be jealous in the first place if he doesn't recognise other gods? If they weren't deemed by the Bible's authors to exist why be jealous? You can't be jealous of nothing


The Deuteronomy and Exodus quotations that you posted are nothing more than a desperate attempt by the Bible's authors to force people to follow Yaweh - reinforcing with carrot and stick. A real god wouldn't need to threaten or frighten people into following him. A real god would be followed for his own sake.

Literalists never take into account history. Even the Bible itself tells you time and time and time again that the Jews went off to worship their other gods. Open near enough any book and there's a guy who has buggered off and is following another deity.

Historically, it's astounding that the literalists refuse to acknowledge the pagan origins of Judaism - even though the Bible itself refers to paganism countless times. Look at 99.9% of religions and you will see that they absorbed some of the older pagan beliefs to get themselves off the ground - Judaism even more so because of it's links with Egypt and Sumeria. Worship of other deities was deemed totally acceptable - they were all believed to be aspects of the One anyway, and by worshipping them you were ultimately worshipping the main god. You see the same setup with the Trinity in Christianity. The "before" that you are so adamant means "other than" probably refers to this. The early Jews were "pagans". They worshipped other gods. Yet the literalists believe that they changed over to worshipping Yaweh in the matter of an hour or so whilst Moses was up the mountain - even though the Bible itself shows that they carried on with pagan worship. Yep, they're all worshipping the bull (probably a mixture of El/Egyptian belief), a guy goes up a hill, comes down with a couple of stone tablets, and suddenly they throw away thousands of years worth of belief system. It defies logic. Ask a literalist if he would change his beliefs within an hour or two with such flimsy evidence of a new deity and he'd look at you in horror. Yet he'll take it as read that the Jews would have done such a thing under Moses.


There are no other gods in the presence of God. To God, the other gods worshipped by men are not gods.


To God? Or to Yaweh? To Yaweh and the authors of the Bible they obviously are gods. They're seen as deities and deemed to be enough of a threat to the tribal god so that the followers of the fledgeling religion have to be reminded not to follow them. If they weren't viewed as gods, they wouldn't warrant a mention would they?
But to the real god? I really don't think that he would give a crap. He knows that he's the only God. I don't believe that he needs to frighten his worshippers into following him.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 09:29 AM
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Look Levller read the
Bible over again, and pay close attention this time. There is only ONR God, NOT four.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by AD5673
Look Levller read the
Bible over again, and pay close attention this time. There is only ONR God, NOT four.


I've read the Bible over and over again.
What I am referring to is in the bloody Bible!!!!

Abraham's god was El.
Mose's god was Yaweh.

Which bit of that don't you understand?

If you're trying to tell me that El is Yaweh then you are sadly mistaken. I have give you enough links to show you that El was a Canaanite god. Abraham even named one of his sons after him - Ishma-El.
Heck. Let's not even mention Isra-El shall we? Or the tower of Bab-El. Or Gabri-El. Or Emmanu-El. The list goes on.....

Genesis 31:13 I am the God of Beth-El, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.

"Beth-El" means "House of El".



In Canaanite tradition, El's son was Ba'al - the very same god whom Yaweh despises in the Bible. Both Saul and Joseph had sons and progeny named after him. Saul's son was called Esh-ba'al. Joseph's lineage didn't screw around - they simply called their boy Ba'al.

www.jameslove.com...



[edit on 18-7-2004 by Leveller]



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 10:03 AM
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hey bad kitty.
i have read some of the 'lost' books outside the bible.
it's funny, while they are not included, some of their content shows up in theology. like the whole story about satan's origin (not in THE bible).
you want to unravel christianity fast? read matt one.
it is a list of the geneology from david to jesus. the interesting thing is,
jesus' right to rule as messiah is based on this bloodline. and it comes to him thru Joseph. i thought he was born of a virgin! and that God was his dad! this blows the whole premise out of the water. (granted in the lost book, the gospel of the book of mary, we find that she too is of the royal RACE) but i cant find this in any of the gospels.
furthermore, if you go back to genesis. who lied? yaweh or the serpent?!
i have come to believe the bible to be a manipulated version of a history that cannot be validated outside it's covers.
i have never been able to buy into the idea that a loving god, capable of creating the universe, likes the smell of burning flesh, is jealous etc.

i cant tell you how free i felt when i finally let go of the programing. no more wicked head chatter! not to mention it put full accountability on me for my own actions. i am not reasponsible for original sin folks, and you can quote me on that!
people who own their own behavior, do not need a saviour!

peace to you bad kitty!



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Your own argument hurts your case here.
Why would Yaweh be jealous in the first place if he doesn't recognise other gods? If they weren't deemed by the Bible's authors to exist why be jealous? You can't be jealous of nothing


First, my argument is that God never said it was OK to worship other Gods.
Second, it's apparent you've never had a jealous girlfriend, else you would realize they can be jealous of nothing.



The Deuteronomy and Exodus quotations that you posted are nothing more than a desperate attempt by the Bible's authors to force people to follow Yaweh - reinforcing with carrot and stick. A real god wouldn't need to threaten or frighten people into following him. A real god would be followed for his own sake.


I believe you said you were a Christian. So let me ask you, what happens to someone who isn't saved?

In regards to the verses I quoted:

Matthew 22:36-40

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Mark 12:28-31

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


Are these too just "nothing more than a desperate attempt by the Bible's authors to force people to follow Yaweh - reinforcing with carrot and stick"?


Literalists never take into account history. Even the Bible itself tells you time and time and time again that the Jews went off to worship their other gods. Open near enough any book and there's a guy who has buggered off and is following another deity.


Did I say men did not worship other gods? I said to God, they are not gods. To God, they are slightly bigger grains of sand on a beach.


Historically, it's astounding that the literalists refuse to acknowledge the pagan origins of Judaism - even though the Bible itself refers to paganism countless times.


You are aware that Jesus was a Jew, right?



The "before" that you are so adamant means "other than" probably refers to this.


Read what I wrote in that post again.


To God? Or to Yaweh? To Yaweh and the authors of the Bible they obviously are gods. They're seen as deities and deemed to be enough of a threat to the tribal god so that the followers of the fledgeling religion have to be reminded not to follow them. If they weren't viewed as gods, they wouldn't warrant a mention would they?


God recognizes that men worship other gods. One cannot tell someone something is wrong unless it is mentioned. To God, they are not gods. To men, they seem to be.


But to the real god? I really don't think that he would give a crap. He knows that he's the only God. I don't believe that he needs to frighten his worshippers into following him.


Yes yes, I see your point no need to mention other gods if you are the only one. Oh wait, no I don't.

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


.



[edit on 18-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Raphael_UO
First, my argument is that God never said it was OK to worship other Gods.
Second, it's apparent you've never had a jealous girlfriend, else you would realize they can be jealous of nothing.


Actually, I'm married. But I digress.
Comparing God to a jealous girlfriend is reaching a bit dontcha think? In fact isn't giving God human characteristics a bit of a silly thing to do?



I believe you said you were a Christian. So let me ask you, what happens to someone who isn't saved?


Who said I'm a Christian? Check again. The question is therefore irrelevant.


Did I say men did not worship other gods? I said to God, they are not gods. To God, they are slightly bigger grains of sand on a beach.


Ah. He told you that did he? If they aren't gods and they're worth so little then why is Yaweh so jealous and afraid of them then? Why does he attend the council of Gods in the Psalm I posted previously?



You are aware that Jesus was a Jew, right?


You are aware that Jew is an all-encompassing term for literally hundereds of sects back then, right? You are aware that Jesus was condemned by the Jewish mainstream, right?


Read what I wrote in that post again.


Read it. Refuted it.



God recognizes that men worship other gods. One cannot tell someone something is wrong unless it is mentioned. To God, they are not gods. To men, they seem to be.


Not once does Yaweh refer to them as false gods. What he does do though (as I've already pointed out before) is display fear of them.



Yes yes, I see your point no need to mention other gods if you are the only one. Oh wait, no I don't.


Duh. If you're the only one then what would exist for you to mention?


Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


Thanks for the fundamentalist quote. I'll file it under "BS" with all of the other religious freakery.
Incidentally - no man can serve two masters? How about a religion? Oops... El and Yaweh. Hmm. I wonder..... did Moses hate the Canaanite god? Yaweh was certainly made to say that he did, didn't he?



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Actually, I'm married. But I digress.
Comparing God to a jealous girlfriend is reaching a bit dontcha think? In fact isn't giving God human characteristics a bit of a silly thing to do?


It would only be reaching if one considers that the jealousy of a girlfrined cannot compare to the jealousy of God.

Perhaps it is not man giving human characteristics to God, but rather God giving Godly characteristics to humans?



Who said I'm a Christian? Check again. The question is therefore irrelevant.


I did infer this when you said: As for my own personal religious beliefs? I don't follow the Old Testament. I look upon it merely as a basis for the Christian faith and don't take it as either factual or particularly sacred to my faith in a literal way. In reality this doesn't differ from any other Christian outlook. After all - the laws of Leviticus aren't followed by Christians are they?

My apologies.



Ah. He told you that did he? If they aren't gods and they're worth so little then why is Yaweh so jealous and afraid of them then? Why does he attend the council of Gods in the Psalm I posted previously?


It is simply a matter of perspective.



You are aware that Jew is an all-encompassing term for literally hundereds of sects back then, right? You are aware that Jesus was condemned by the Jewish mainstream, right?


I am well aware. Thank you.


Read it. Refuted it.


And then you misquoted it. It was not that I was telling you to learn the lesson there, but rather I was telling you to read the words so you could quote them correctly.



Not once does Yaweh refer to them as false gods. What he does do though (as I've already pointed out before) is display fear of them.


You argue that there is no need to mention other gods if you are the only one, now you argue that if you mention other gods you have to refer to them as false? If you had an open mind and wanted to learn, you would see that God did teach he was the only god. As I have been trying to point out.



Thanks for the fundamentalist quote. I'll file it under "BS" with all of the other religious freakery.
Incidentally - no man can serve two masters? How about a religion? Oops... El and Yaweh. Hmm. I wonder..... did Moses hate the Canaanite god? Yaweh was certainly made to say that he did, didn't he?


Did you bother to read the poem about the blind men and the elephant?

For the record, I do not believe in religion. I beleive in God. It doesn't matter to me what labels one puts on their beliefs as long as "God is. Love God. Live God." is at the core of those beliefs.

I am not a christian because I was raised a christian. I call myself a christian because after I discovered the reality of "God is", I saw in the Bible Truth.

.
Edit:


Originally posted by Leveller
I've read the Bible over and over again.
What I am referring to is in the bloody Bible!!!!

Abraham's god was El.
Mose's god was Yaweh.

Which bit of that don't you understand?

If you're trying to tell me that El is Yaweh then you are sadly mistaken. I have give you enough links to show you that El was a Canaanite god. Abraham even named one of his sons after him - Ishma-El.
Heck. Let's not even mention Isra-El shall we? Or the tower of Bab-El. Or Gabri-El. Or Emmanu-El. The list goes on.....


They are the same. The bible that you claim says they are not, says they are.

Exodus 3:6
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.


[edit on 18-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 03:47 PM
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Quote: "Exodus 3:6 " Moreover He said 'I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God."

God is telling Moses right there that the God Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worshipped and the God that is appearing before him is the same God.

Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias as talking with him.
Matthew 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

If the God of Moses,(which as Exodus 3:6 clearly states, is the God of Abraham) and the God of Jesus( which is a bit of a misnomer, Jesus is God) are different beings altogether, why would Moses be present at the transfiguration of Christ, which was presided over by Jesus' God?
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the Bible was edited to make it seem that many different Gods were really one God."

MAN writes books to Control other Men - God doesn't need to write Books - God is UNIVERSAL. For all of the people that believe EVERY WORD IN THE BIBLE LITERALLY Please Understand that it is actually Not One Book. It is a whole bunch of different books thrown together into One Book. These Books come from different periods in Time & are written in Different Languages - from Different Authors. Please Study History. There are PLENTY of differing SECTS in both the Judaic & Christian Religions.
POLITICS definitely comes into play!!!



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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Great. So Yaweh tells Moses that he was Abraham's god and you instantly swallow it. You ignore all of the other contradictions yet you make a massive jump in logic to swallow this one? You ignore the probability that, in the 1500 years or so that it took to compile the Bible, religion and the interpretation and identity of the Jewish god didn't change? Even though the Bible itself says that they were the sort of people who would run to and fro to different gods? Even though the Bible says itself that Yaweh attended a council of gods?

I didn't write the Bible. I wasn't the author who wrote the name of El over 200 times in the book. I've shown you who El is. Are you now telling me that Yaweh is El? If so, the Israelites are worshipping the Canaanite high god and therefore so are Christians today. You can pull out as many passages of refutation as you like - it still doesn't change that fact.

Now answer this before you try blinding us with Bible passages that have been inserted for political reasons - passages that were inserted to reinforce the worship of a tribal god.

Either Yaweh is El - in which case he is the Canaanite High god and father of Baal.
Or Yaweh is not El - in which case there is more than one god in the Bible.

Which is it to be?



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Great. So Yaweh tells Moses that he was Abraham's god and you instantly swallow it. You ignore all of the other contradictions yet you make a massive jump in logic to swallow this one? You ignore the probability that, in the 1500 years or so that it took to compile the Bible, religion and the interpretation and identity of the Jewish god didn't change?


Are you so closed mind that you do not hear what I have been saying?

You say over 1500 years interpretation changed, but assume that the interpretations could not be interpretting the same thing?

The only thing you have supporting your view is the use of language in the bible. Do you also think the spanish stories of El Cid are related the Canaanite god?

You take things out of immediate context, just to make your point. When you realize the point is not made, you quickly shift attention to another subject. Then you go back to the first as though you had made the point. Subtile and elegant. My 6 year old could learn much from you, his current tactic is to simply cover his ears and repeat, "I can't hear you! LA LA LA!"

Also the use of language changes over the corse of 1500 years. But you assume the change from el to yhwh denotes something other than change of language.

Also you assume El of Abraham is the same El of the pagans. (Editted this line due to an error in haste.)

Now you could say, "You prove he wasn't." To this I simply say "You cannot prove a negative." You can only attempt to prove something is true and then say it isn't due to lack of evidence. Prove UFOs don't exist. Prove Bigfoot doesn't exist. Prove you didn't sleep with my wife. All these things cannot be proved as a negative. People require certain levels of evidence before they can accept something as fact. The lack of this evidence is "proof" something doesn't exist.

The verses I have presented have indeed supported the opposite view of what you believe, however you are unwilling to consider anything other than what you believe. You discard anything that does not fit with your view out of hand. This makes anything I present moot before I even expend the energy to present it.

Before you say I am the one unwilling, allow me to say, I once believed there was no God. I was very good at debating my view. When I discovered God did exist, that one fact was all I knew. Before I could accept anything written in the bible concerning God, I had to answer one question: Why did God described in this book say "Thou shalt not have other Gods before me"? This debate is nothing new to me. Been there, done that. 8+ years of atheist vs Christian debates were brought to bear in understanding that one sentence. I spent ~4 years explaining that one line to myself. Most of these arguments you are using, I have used myself. Indeed I have even used a few you have not.

You are also arguing that YHWY lied about who he was. But offer no proof he did lie other than changes in names.

When my last child was born, the hospital put a card on the bed with his mother's last name and "Baby boy" written on the card. Shortly after that, they wrote his first name on the card. Then they gave us a form to fill out, and we received a birth certificate with 3 names on it. As he grew older, he was given nick names. He also has a social security card with a number on it that represents him. If he were a Catholic, he would receive another name when he was comfirmed. If he were a female, (s)he would receive another another last name when (s)he married. When he gets old enough, he can legally change his name to what ever he chooses.

Do any of these changes in what he is called alter the fact he is the same person? What proof do you have that YHWH lied about his identity?

.



[edit on 18-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 09:52 PM
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Okay, for the "thou shalt have no other gods before me" line. I will admit, this line has confused many people. Let's say I decide to invent a god to worship, let's call him "Steve". Completely imagined, made up by me five seconds ago. I go around worshipping "Steve" for a few years, and then decide to convert to Judaism, or Christianity. But God(YHWH, El Shaddai, Elohim,Jehovah,etc...) tells me, "Hold up, if you want to be one of My people, "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me". Now, He's not implying that "Steve" actually exists, just that my loyalties are to "Steve". We've already covered that God is a jealous god, but why would God be jealous of an imaginary being? Because it's not the other god that he's really jealous of, it's my loyalties to this god. The fact that he's a three foot tall dwarf with a beret and a fishing pole, that I completely made up, doesn't matter.

As for not being able to believe that the one God of the Bible is really four Gods because man made it look that way, and you can't trust this because people wrote it and lied, how can you believe anything you read? and for that matter, why should anyone believe you? Hey, why should you even believe yourself?
There comes a time when you just have to accept things. we could go though this argument forever, me giving my proofs that I am right, and you giving your proofs that you are right. In reality, proof doesn't prove anything(what?). You can find proof of anything to confirm what you already believe.

As for the Bible being many books, and not just one book, Nooooo? Really? Do you really believe that this is some secret knowledge that only a few share? This is pretty common knowledge. Just like the whole" well, all the books of the bible were approved by a committee, man Everything about your bible was approved by some council", argument. Like this is supposed to be some great revelation or something. There has never been any, I repeat, ANY attempt to cover up this knowledge. And yet, the discovery of the dead sea scrolls lists pretty much the same books. Sure, there are minor differences, but the message as a whole isn't changed by this.



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 11:43 PM
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Quote: "YHWY lied about who he was."

Not really lied. It is one of the main points of Gnosticism that this "Creator God" - which goes by many names - is indeed A God - the Lord of the Material World as a matter of Fact - but NOT the Eternal God of the Universe. Many believe that there is only One God - then why all of the Different Names - because there are different Manifestations. EL-ohim is certainly one of those Manifestations. Some would even say that
Azurah-Mazda & Abraxas & AUMON-RA & even Jesus Christ himself are all Manifestations of this "God".




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