Exclusive: Troopers would 'absolutely' use force on Wisc. protesters if ordered, police union presid

Exclusive: Troopers would 'absolutely' use force on Wisc. protesters if ordered, police union president tells Raw

www.raws tory.com

One rumor, which had not yet come to pass, even suggested that like Egypt's former dictator did in Tahrir Square, Gov. Walker may call in police to forcibly clear out the capitol.

And according to a Wisconsin police union president, whether the police agree or disagree with their governor's politics, they would "absolutely" carry out any order given to them ... even if that order included using force against their fellow Americans gathered in peaceful protest.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is an interesting interview imho, and leads me to think of the possibilities and implications of if or when the proverbial S.H.T.F. scenario arises, who will ultimately be on whose side here?

Will the police and military truly follow orders from a corrupt gov? Even if those orders are against our own constitution?

Or will they awaken, along with an ever-increasing SUFFERING populace, who is being affected daily by a gov gone entirely out of control, who is serving vested interests?

This police union president's statements and thoughts on the matter are quite noteworthy, and worth a view, imho...

These are crazy times we are living in, no two ways about it...

www.raws tory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I don't think it will turn deadly...
A peaceful protest can not be met
with deadly force...

Keep an eye out on them though.
Watch them watching you watch..

Good catch S and F.

Sadly, I believe it is going to take police and/or military crowd control officers to go "too far" before they wake up and realize which side they are on. Maybe after a grandmother clutching her grandchild in the middle of an "American" street gets gunned down in cold blood will these corporate security guards see the error of their thinking.

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective

Exclusive: Troopers would 'absolutely' use force on Wisc. protesters if ordered, police union president tells Raw

www.raws tory.com

One rumor, which had not yet come to pass, even suggested that like Egypt's former dictator did in Tahrir Square, Gov. Walker may call in police to forcibly clear out the capitol.

And according to a Wisconsin police union president, whether the police agree or disagree with their governor's politics, they would "absolutely" carry out any order given to them ... even if that order included using force against their fellow Americans gathered in peaceful protest.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Apparently, he thinks that by using force, will stop the protests. In all actuality, they will inflame the crowds and find they have opened an entirely "different" can of worms.
On another possibly unrelated note...did any one else notice that Tahrir is pronounced similarly to "terror"?

Will be interesting to watch. It wouldn't surprise me if the military personnel question the very orders they are given, and take sides with the very people they are sworn to protect. I dunno though.....getting a bit tipsy. This situation reminds me of that statue, you know the one with the ' balances"? Police state regime in one side, rights and the people in the other....who will out weigh who?

Originally posted by hillynilly
I don't think it will turn deadly...
A peaceful protest can not be met
with deadly force...

Keep an eye out on them though.
Watch them watching you watch..

Good catch S and F.

You mean like this one?

www.youtube.com...

Wow, a story sourced from the "World Socialist Web Site" ..... dont that just ooze credibility?

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

This is an interesting interview imho, and leads me to think of the possibilities and implications of if or when the proverbial S.H.T.F. scenario arises, who will ultimately be on whose side here?

Some of the LEO's might be on the govt side to begin with, but when they figure out that they are on the 'S' end of the stick, they would probably make themselves scarce.

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
It wouldn't surprise me if the military personnel question the very orders they are given, and take sides with the very people they are sworn to protect.

Not saying this story is 100% on-point, but I have something to share.

When I graduated high school, a TON of my friends/classmates went into the military. The problem with every one of them, is that they were all tools. Not to be a "name caller", but to label them appropriately--they wanted to be a function of another man's control. They didn't want to do anything without being told to do it.

These people would have no problem opening fire on their own countrymen. They signed up for the military so they could shoot people, and by all means they will if allowed/ordered to do so. The noblest of these confreres admitted to joining the military so he could "eff Korean hookers".

I could not see any of my friends, now military men and no longer friends, siding with the American public if that meant they couldn't shoot people.

No apologies to any of ATS military members, I speak only of my personal observations.

Fortunately, they aren't our best and brightest...

...and we outnumber them.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by hillynilly
I don't think it will turn deadly...
A peaceful protest can not be met
with deadly force...

Keep an eye out on them though.
Watch them watching you watch..

Good catch S and F.

You mean like this one?

www.youtube.com...

edit on 21-2-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

We've come a long way in 41 years haven't we? What was learned from these mistakes of the past? A lot, but the generation holding the guns now don't remember these years in History, most don't even remember what they did last Tuesday.

Sadly, the police would do this, even if it went directly against their own personal morals. And you have to ask yourself, what kind of a person could do that against their fellow man in peaceful porotest. even when they know it is wrong, they will do it anyway. And it is one of the many reasons why I harbour such resentment for the police.

reply to post by whaaa
Thank you for posting that. People do forget, but not if you don't let them!

A star for your post.

I think this spokesperson would be surprised when/if the order comes down.

The entire purpose of this statement is to keep people from joining the protest by making them think they will be in danger. Given the momentum that appears to be building globally against the status quo I find it a very telling move concerning future events in the US:

Any protest will be met with force.

If TPTB are willing to roll on a protest like the one in Wis. what do you think they will do when people assemble to protest bigger, national issues?

The American people have just been warned.

Before this happens they need to realize one important thing. Americans just don't throw rocks. We have the means to spit lead also. Being the most armed civilian force in the world I don't think it would be wise for any authority to open fire on an American public.

Do not get too excited now. Even if the police cleared the building, and a few arrests were made it would not be that big a deal. This kind of thing has happened before, and will happen again. Police break public protests. It is common in our history. Take the examples of 20th century labor unrest, 1960s civil rights/Vietnam protests, modern anti-globalization/anti-government protests.

This seems to be a pretty tame gathering from what I can tell, and really nothing out of the ordinary in most countries of the world. After a football game in many countries there are always riots with police clearing the streets with force. It is just part of reality.

The reason it might be surprising to many Americans is due to their own lack of knowledge. We have been so propagandized and politically neutered that we really believe we have the right to peacefully assemble. It is clear that there really has never been much right to assemble. It only is allowed to occur when it is politically or physically impossible to crush. The police will crack down if they are told to, and the people who do not wanna get arrested will scatter. The crowd in Wisconsin looks like they would break pretty easily.

reply to post by Tharsis

they wanted to be a function of another man's control. They didn't want to do anything without being told to do it.

So pride within ones country no longer can be used to justify the actions of joining? Apparently all of those men and women in uniform are " tools " as you claim. The guy who wanted out of the gang ridden streets, joined the military to turn around kill people right? You logic is rather backwards, and more like propaganda.

I don't think any ATS'ers here who have or currently are in the military wouldn't want an apology from you! Your comments and logic suggest YOU and people like you are the problem, and need to be eradicated. Judging people because of their service loses you credibility. Further, if the proverbial " crap hits the fan ", it will be people like yourself whom cower down, and depend on the very people in uniform to defend you, and protect you. They very people you wish to judge.

I think your ready for a diaper change...move along~

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
Before this happens they need to realize one important thing. Americans just don't throw rocks. We have the means to spit lead also. Being the most armed civilian force in the world I don't think it would be wise for any authority to open fire on an American public.

I assure you, the US military, and our allies, have weaponry far more advanced than gun powder projectiles, and they aren't afraid of them. Yes the American armed populace will be annoying at first, but with satellite and drone technology they can neutralize any well armed resistance effortlessly from high above. Locating these people is as easy as heat signature from above.

A couple of points that I think are all possible..

It hasn't happened yet - so he may very well say whatever he needs to in order to keep his job. Saying he would disobey a direct order would likely get him fired. In the meantime, he can still keep eating and worry about getting fired for disobeying when (and if) the time comes. When (if ) the time comes he as well as some other officers may very well disobey the order. But that doesn't mean all will because.....

Unfortunately, peaceful protest doesn't mean that police will not come in and bust some protester's heads if ordered to - or if they just decide to. It happens all over the world (including right here in the US and Canada). Of course, not all officers are like this - but some are. It has been witnessed fairly often. But as someone mentioned...

Ultimately the police are outnumbered by civilians. In Egypt the police were pretty much universally hated. It didn't take the Egyptian police long to realize that trying to bust heads when vastly outnumbered by a mob that hates the very sight of you and has lost its fear of you is a losing proposition. So police quickly became scarce in Egypt. Does the populace here share such a hatred of the police? Well some do - but some do not... But if enough do it will all fall to the ....

Army / National Guard - this is the real question. If the police cannot or will not control things it will fall the the Army / National Guard. The question is what will they be willing to do?

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Will be interesting to watch. It wouldn't surprise me if the military personnel question the very orders they are given, and take sides with the very people they are sworn to protect. I dunno though....

The military oath has nothing to do with defending "the people" fyi. They swear allegiance to the United States constitution...nothing/nobody else.

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "

I'd like to touch on the whole notion of these protesters being "peaceful". I recall seeing video of people INSIDE the capital building with bullhorns screaming things while others would scream at the top of their lungs. That is not peaceful protesting. Law officers have an obligation to uphold the laws which happen to include people who disturb the peace (definition: "Disturbing the peace is a minor criminal offense that may be charged when someone makes excessive noise"). You might as well label this thread "police would do their jobs if asked to"