Libya warplanes bombing Tripoli: resident

Originally posted by purplemer

i kinda see it different. the military in ibay is being used to bomb there own people. Taking out some military hardware to stop a genocide occuring in a country where people are demonsrating for change is not the same as occupying a country and creating as much mayhem as you can so that you can put an oil pipeine through there.
but you are right. War is war and it should not be taken lightly..

kx

TheTaliban were taking out their own people, too, yet folks screamed bloody murder upon US intervention there.

Saddam was taking out his own people, too, over and above the Kurds, he sent Mi24 HIND gunship helicopters to strafe dissident groupings, and even refuge columns. Folks screamed bloody murder at the US intervention there, too.

Seems we ought to learn something from that, and stop helping folks that ain't here. If we don't fire a single shot there, no one can accuse us of killing off Libyan civilians or kids.

I agree, war should never be taken lightly or entered upon frivolously.

All those who scream at the US for going after the Taliban and al Qaida, but who now think for some odd reason we should embark on a Libyan campaign and open ourselves to more of the same charges, are more than welcome to exercise the individual pursuit of foreign policy upon their own terms, and have at Khadafi on their own.

Inevitably, if the US goes in there to assist, there will immediately follow charges that we are killing off civilians for Libyan Oil, which makes as much sense as saying that we are killing Iraqi civilians for Iraqi oil - which is to say, none. Those civilians don't control that oil, so where's the connect? In neither case does it make any sense, but the charges are inevitable if we muck about in Libya, same as they came about in Iraq and Afghanistan - which doesn't even HAVE any oil. Folks had to shift the claim there to some sort of "oil pipeline" to cover for the lack of oil.

I note that nowhere do I see an oil pipeline there, either - even after 10 years.

So, as I've said dozens of times at ATS now, I'm all for letting the rest of the world fend for themselves, and it starts right here, right now, with the current brushfires in the middle east.

I'm tired of hearing the accusations, and don't care to produce any fresh ones.

Originally posted by Looking_Glass

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by bigyin

What if the protesters asked for US warplanes to come over and take out Gadaffis forces. Would that be enough ?

No.

I sure as hell wouldn't want any Venzuelan warplanes strafing American turf if rioters in Cleveland asked for it, and the same principle applies there.

I think it's ok to help out as a team in a situation such as this, then leave after the deed is done.

Edit: But only if the situation is dire and things have gotten out of control. Otherwise, we mind our business and let them deal with it themselves.

edit on 22-2-2011 by Looking_Glass because: *

The argument I hear at ATS all the time is that it is NEVER ok to invade a sovereign country. The older I get, the more I see the wisdom behind that. It's their country, they can run it as they see fit.

Applies to Libya no less than it does Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, or Switzerland.

Sovereign is sovereign.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


It's time for the EU and the U.S. Goverment to enact a " No Fly Zone" over the Skies of Lybia . If not done soon , the lost of futher Human lives will be a direct result of their inactions . Where is the United Nations Outrage here ? Their Silence Speaks Volumes..........

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by v1rtu0s0

 

It's time for the EU and the U.S. Goverment to enact a " No Fly Zone" over the Skies of Lybia . If not done soon , the lost of futher Human lives will be a direct result of their inactions . Where is the United Nations Outrage here ? Their Silence Speaks Volumes..........

Its a wonder the EU and US have kept there beak out....must be no money or power to be gained.

reply to post by Vampiri


OK let's just leave it at that shall we?

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by v1rtu0s0

 

It's time for the EU and the U.S. Goverment to enact a " No Fly Zone" over the Skies of Lybia . If not done soon , the lost of futher Human lives will be a direct result of their inactions . Where is the United Nations Outrage here ? Their Silence Speaks Volumes..........

Nope.

The loss of life is a direct result of Khaddafi's actions, not anyone's INACTIONS.

Well, that and all those folks trying to make the US into some sort of monster for "meddling in sovereign affairs". We don't care to hear any more of that, so we're not going to wade into a situation where those accusations are sure to follow.

See, what's going on in Libya are internal affairs of a sovereign nation....

There's money to be made by simply staying out of all these middle-east turmoils. When the price of crude rises high enough, oil companies find incentive to ramp up alternative efforts (in the Bakken Oil Shale for example).

I would be surprised if Moammar is still in power in one week, and would not be surprised if he is not alive then either. If he is out of power and alive, he would probably be with his home tribe hiding out.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


wow, this is really bad. i really feel for all the people who are going through this.

Gadaffi even blocked the internet so the real news of what he is doing doesn't get out.

At least some military pilots had a concience and didn't follow order, but there were not enough.

Maybe if a bunch of mercenaries from different countries coop together and planned an covert act, to help these people to freedom then non of the invading forces like NATO or UN has to go there , there's Internet and email they can mail each other can't they?

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


The Libyans are broadcasting on the internet in here :
www.livestream.com...

reply to post by 0bserver1


Mercenaries like Xe? The same ones you moan and cry about on here all the time? I love how this is happening. I hope our guys don't do a thing with Libya. Let's not give the american people another excuse to cry and scream baby killers. Let's let their govt kill them all. Maybe the US HIPPIES will learn their IS a time for war. Let's stay out and show them what happens.

I don't know about anyone else, but this seems suspicious to me. Call me a nay-sayer, but I'm gonna roll with Fidel Castro on this one and say that this is a great pretext for a NATO invasion to secure oil for the West.

Originally posted by Soshh
As well as targeting protesters, pilots were ordered to attack military facilities.

That's a good sign.

If they were ordered to do that, I'd say almost the majority of the military are likely to defect. The fact he has ordered military personnel to be executed for not firing on their people supports this also.

Gaddafi is scared. Hope the people get rid of him like their neighbours did their leaders.

Immediate International Steps Needed to Stop Atrocities in Libya
Brussels | 22 Feb 2011
With credible reports of concerted deadly attacks against civilians committed by Libyan security forces, including the use of military aircraft to indiscriminately attack demonstrators, the international community must respond immediately.


www.crisisgroup.org...

Brussels is already intervening in Lybia.

I don't want to be a party-pooper but reports from CNN don't confirm anything for me. I mean, has there been any reports from Lybia? Any reliable sources?

If this turns out to be true indeed then he deserves the hell that is coming for him. To those who are hoping someone will intervene to help the people (like the UN), not gonna happen.

You wanna know the real difference ? Gaddafi is supported by the west. Like Moubarak was (I like how they defended him on fox news), like ben ali was...
The US have been creating and supporting dictatures for a while now, and they only intervene when someone disobeys.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by purplemer

i kinda see it different. the military in ibay is being used to bomb there own people. Taking out some military hardware to stop a genocide occuring in a country where people are demonsrating for change is not the same as occupying a country and creating as much mayhem as you can so that you can put an oil pipeine through there.
but you are right. War is war and it should not be taken lightly..

kx

TheTaliban were taking out their own people, too, yet folks screamed bloody murder upon US intervention there.

Saddam was taking out his own people, too, over and above the Kurds, he sent Mi24 HIND gunship helicopters to strafe dissident groupings, and even refuge columns. Folks screamed bloody murder at the US intervention there, too.

Seems we ought to learn something from that, and stop helping folks that ain't here. If we don't fire a single shot there, no one can accuse us of killing off Libyan civilians or kids.

I agree, war should never be taken lightly or entered upon frivolously.

All those who scream at the US for going after the Taliban and al Qaida, but who now think for some odd reason we should embark on a Libyan campaign and open ourselves to more of the same charges, are more than welcome to exercise the individual pursuit of foreign policy upon their own terms, and have at Khadafi on their own.

Inevitably, if the US goes in there to assist, there will immediately follow charges that we are killing off civilians for Libyan Oil, which makes as much sense as saying that we are killing Iraqi civilians for Iraqi oil - which is to say, none. Those civilians don't control that oil, so where's the connect? In neither case does it make any sense, but the charges are inevitable if we muck about in Libya, same as they came about in Iraq and Afghanistan - which doesn't even HAVE any oil. Folks had to shift the claim there to some sort of "oil pipeline" to cover for the lack of oil.

I note that nowhere do I see an oil pipeline there, either - even after 10 years.

So, as I've said dozens of times at ATS now, I'm all for letting the rest of the world fend for themselves, and it starts right here, right now, with the current brushfires in the middle east.

I'm tired of hearing the accusations, and don't care to produce any fresh ones.

reply to post by ickylevel


So why give the american people another excuse to cry and complain once our soldiers are over there. You can't have it both ways. Let's stay at home so you can't insult us anymore.

Reports out of all MSM is this was artillery fire

Its really kicking off in Libya right now over 300 dead from the massacre/genocide against its own people

I would have a different stand as we all did with Tunisia Egypt & Bahrain for them to take there own freedom and democracy but after watch all this and the crys for help i would agree the UN now needs to act with force and help them secure there freedom rights and democracy this is just beyond words of what i'm seeing and hearing here

I think the reason the US is sitting on its hands right now is it trying to get China to step up and play superman for a change. After all... have they not been braggin at how they are such a "superpower" now? Well you wanna wear the suit? Then you know what you have to do and what is expected of you. No other country has done half of what we have for humanitarian aid. And in the end when we REALLY need outside help no one is gonna help us. Ungrateful usurpers...