To All of You Who Doubt The Billy Meier (HOAX): Watch this.

reply to post by Jay-morris


Just came across this thread, you should read the OP and then use logic and reason to discern if what this man is saying is true and if it makes sense.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Still doing research Jay-Morris, taking some time to look into it, but I am willing to share new findings as I go.
Regardless read the OP of that thread, very interesting and would seem to explain a lot of the fishy things of this case.

Originally posted by youthsavior
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Just came across this thread, you should read the OP and then use logic and reason to discern if what this man is saying is true and if it makes sense.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Still doing research Jay-Morris, taking some time to look into it, but I am willing to share new findings as I go.
Regardless read the OP of that thread, very interesting and would seem to explain a lot of the fishy things of this case.

Did you read all of the thread? I don't buy for one min that this is billy meier's friend. Not because he has no evidence for that, but for the fact that normally you can just tell a meier believer from a mile off. Again, his post did not make any sense, and at the end of the day, meier is just coming out with rubbish everytime he gets caught out, and he has been caught out alot.

They have tried to kill meier. I think this is a load of rubbish. How hard would it be to kill a man on a farm? Eevn i could go there and end up in situations where i could get at him, and i am just a normal everyday bloke. But these powerful people tried and failed give me a break.

Please, just open your eyes and look at this case!

reply to post by Jay-morris


Urgggh! I have my eyes wide open looking at everything in life. And the one thing that stands out to me is how many people claim they're open when really they're not. There is also an overwhelming amount of evidence that shows how many people have tampered with this case. I'm not going to go into detail here only because it has been mentioned time after time again. The thread I just linked mentions some of the reasons. This is simply an example of our lack of reason, knowledge, and sticking to our core beliefs, buying into things that seem plausible. This poor man has been through more criticism than I've seen before. All for trying to share his story with the world. The result of this is the exact thing the "Plejaren" are speaking about and saying is wrong with humanity. By the way your butchering the spelling of their race significantly. Also, anyone who claims them to be Pleiadians are sadly mistaken and not to be trusted. I'm sorry Jay-Morris but I disagree with you on this case and I will leave it up to Mahitagram to debate the evidence with you as he is more knowledgeable on this case it seems. From my own inferences though, I believe in the things I've been telling you. The things you wanted me too look into are pure rubbish and are similar to the rubbish that people use to debunk just about every ufo sighting. It's almost the same situation though. Also, it has not been publicly acknowledged that UFO's are real, which leaves it up to the person. That being said, it is very easy to believe that this case could have been debunked with falsifications just like every other UFO case. and that should not be a surprise to you nor anyone else because that's whats gonna happen in these situations. You know about the disinfo people, you know about the government's lying schemes. So why don't you use your very own reasoning skills, discerning what is right from wrong and look over this case with fresh eyes from the very beginning. And don't just google his name. Go to FIGU and Steelmark and look at what is proposed as his "core" evidence. Those two resources seem to be the only ones with credible information on him that has not been tampered with by debunkers, etc. By looking at those sites with fresh eyes, you can then take a look at the evidence debunkers are proposing to debate this case. That being said you can decide what is right from wrong from their and make a logical decision. Hate to say it but your buying into the whole "disinformation" scheme. Best of luck!

By the way. I'm not a die hard believer as I always question things and look at both sides of the situation, but with this one, it sticks out like a sore thumb to me how this case unfolded and what the final result is. It was actually expected to turn out this way and it's up the the person to use their instinct and reasoning to decide whether or not to they should believe him and carry his message. His message really hit home for me, and that's what I wish for all humanity.

reply to post by youthsavior

Urgggh! I have my eyes wide open looking at everything in life. And the one thing that stands out to me is how many people claim they're open when really they're not.

So, because i think this case is a joke, that means i am not open? Like i have said before, i am a huge believer that some ufo's defy explanation, and need further investigation. But its cases like this, and the gullible people who believe them that makes this subject a joke, But like i said before, this case is like a cult and the people who believe it are brainwahed, hence the reason why you and other meier belivers are blind to the evidence that proves that this case is a hoax.

There is also an overwhelming amount of evidence that shows how many people have tampered with this case. I'm not going to go into detail here only because it has been mentioned time after time again. The thread I just linked mentions some of the reasons.

Overwhelming evidence that evidence has been tampered with? I have seen no evidence at all that this is the case. This is the diference between me and you. You will believe anything without evidence,and i will not. A random person posts on this board claiming to be meiers friend and tells eveyone that his evidence has been tampered with, and you call this overwhelming evidence! There is no evidec whatsoever that meier evidenc has been tampered with, only meiers word.

This is simply an example of our lack of reason, knowledge, and sticking to our core beliefs, buying into things that seem plausible.

Its nothing to do with "lack of reason" its about looking at the evidence. You have basically said you need to do more research on this case, which tells me you believed it without knowing alot about the case, so what does that tell me about you. This tells me that you are the sort of person that believes alot of stuff on belief alone, and this is the reason why its hard to debate with people like you because you just don't listen.

This poor man has been through more criticism than I've seen before. All for trying to share his story with the world. The result of this is the exact thing the "Plejaren" are speaking about and saying is wrong with humanity.

My God! Its like im banging my head against a brick wall! The reason why he has had so much criticism is because his evidence is so bad. Do you really expect people to study the case, see that his evidence is fake, but turn around and say "well, he still could be telling the truth" The evidence is overwhelming that meier is a hoaxer.

By the way your butchering the spelling of their race significantly.

I have always spelt it that way. Not going to change now im afraid.

Also, anyone who claims them to be Pleiadians are sadly mistaken and not to be trusted.

Sorry, you have lost me here.

I'm sorry Jay-Morris but I disagree with you on this case and I will leave it up to Mahitagram to debate the evidence with you as he is more knowledgeable on this case it seems.

Its a shame that you will blindly believe something without knowing much about it.I feel more frustrated with people like you. You look at this case in a religous way, and thats why you believe it, even when the evidence points to this being a hoax. No mater what evidence i put on here that this is a hoax, you will not listen, and deep down you know this to be true. Its the same with the poster Mahitagram, and no matter what i say to him, his mind has been made up, and will basically believe anything that comes out of meier's mouth. It would be intersting to see what other cases you both believe in.

The things you wanted me too look into are pure rubbish and are similar to the rubbish that people use to debunk just about every ufo sighting.

Pure rubbish? how can you call it pure rubbish when it proves that meier is a hoaxer. You just prove my point when i say no matter what i post, you are not going to listen. And the sad part, is the fact that you believed the case with only knowing a little about it. How sad is that!

That being said, it is very easy to believe that this case could have been debunked with falsifications just like every other UFO case. and that should not be a surprise to you nor anyone else because that's whats gonna happen in these situations. You know about the disinfo people, you know about the government's lying schemes

I can safely say that i know more about the ufo subject than you, and i hate the de-bunkers who de-bunk cases with stupid explanations, but the meier case is different. Here we are dealing with a case that has been de-bunked with evidence. The problem is, we have a man who has the skills to suck in all the gullible people, to brainwash them. To the point where the man can do no wrong, even when it is clear that he has lied, these gullible people will believe every excuse he comes out with.

So why don't you use your very own reasoning skills, discerning what is right from wrong and look over this case with fresh eyes from the very beginning.

Reasoning skills! You are joking, right? Where the hell are your reasoning skills? You have admited already that you know little about the case, and need to do more research, but you still believe that case! Really, i can't believe some people at times!

And don't just google his name. Go to FIGU and Steelmark and look at what is proposed as his "core" evidence. Those two resources seem to be the only ones with credible information on him that has not been tampered with by debunkers, etc. By looking at those sites with fresh eyes, you can then take a look at the evidence debunkers are proposing to debate this case. That being said you can decide what is right from wrong from their and make a logical decision. Hate to say it but your buying into the whole "disinformation" scheme. Best of luck!

Figu is just like any meier believer website, and still have stuff on there which has been de-bunked. Basically eveything on the site. And look at all the stuff you can buy on the site. Dvd's,posters etc.Wow, the paladiens would be so proud!!!!!! complete joke!

By the way. I'm not a die hard believer as I always question things and look at both sides of the situation, but with this one, it sticks out like a sore thumb to me how this case unfolded and what the final result is. It was actually expected to turn out this way and it's up the the person to use their instinct and reasoning to decide whether or not to they should believe him and carry his message. His message really hit home for me, and that's what I wish for all humanity.

You are not a die hard believer? Oh, you just believe in cases you don't research! You have no right to make this statement, and it will be clear to people that read this thread that you are a typical meier believer who knows little about the case, yet believes it to be true. Also says all the evidence that de-bunks the case is a load of rubbish!

It annoys me so much! I know i should not let it get to me, but people like you are the reason why this subject is a complete joke. I will bet all the money i have that you know very little about the subject. You are the type of believer that i put in the same boat as the de-bunkers. You might think you are different, but you are just the same as them, running on your belief.

Well, its your life, and if you want to believe this crap, then its up to you. If you want to ignore the evidence that meier is a fraud, thenits up too you. Nothing is going to change your mind. The difference between me and you when it come to this case is i will actually look into the case and look at all the evidence. You will blidly believe it without knowing much about the case, and this is pretty clear!

reply to post by youthsavior


I thought i would look at your ATS history. And im afraid to say, you are the type that believes most things you come across. You can't argue with that because you just have to look at these posts to know this. From 2012 to reptilians to channeling. So, i know know that i can't debate with people like you because your belief in this is so deep, that no matter what i say, or anyone else says, you are not going to listen.

Its a real shame that you believe everything you come across, but you have only been looking into this subject for a few years, so im hoping you will come to your senses and stop beliving most things you come across.

reply to post by Jay-morris


Well I've been trying to have a more critical eye on the matter and have doubted this case multiple times, but I can tell you one thing for sure that attests to my belief and that is ever since I learned about Billy Meier and his teachings from Billy Meier supporting sites like FIGU etc. my life has been changed and for the better. It's the knowledge that I have learned from him that has helped connect me with the world and extraterrestrial energies. I feel a lot better about myself and my life and what the actual purpose of our life is. I've started meditating, and being as spiritual as a person as I can. I've learned so much and I support the person who has taught me the majority of these things. And I can proudly say that these things have helped my soul and spirit and made me a better person overall. Regardless of how credible you think he is, once your read his teachings you will feel enlightened and understand the true meaning of things. You fail to acknowledge this though and that's why I keep beating into your head that you should look into this differently. I'm trying to help you. If you don't want my help than so be it. You can suffer with the rest of them when the time comes. You will also discover on your own over time what the truth is in all this and then look back at things and say, oh, maybe I should of listened. Hate on me all you want for me learning about life. And about some of my previous posts. They weren't necessarily accurate and I would take back some of things I've said. But, it's all about learning.

Peace be with you.

The case is obviously a hoax, and my posts logically explain why it is. Now, that doesn't mean Billy's "teachings", from the "Plejaran", or whoever, are bad or incorrect. There are many mediums, and contactees, that claim contact with either alien or spiritual beings who give them "teachings" to pass on, and they are usually very similar and not "bad". It does seem obvious that Meier is a new religion, because it is now all based on the "message", and not on the "evidence", which is debunked, and I see no evidence that compells me at all. I mean, if this case was TRUE, then these Plejaran would give "us" something that is not easily disputed. Some QUALITY films and pictures, not static craft stuck in a vanishing tree. Give us a real landed craft, with Billy standing in the doorway. Not fake dinosaur or Dean Martin pics. I mean, come on! It's been over 30yrs now, yet all the photos have stopped, there is no one to take Billy's place as the SOLE contactee when he dies, and it's obviously a lot about money and products. It's a new religion. I think Rael is more convincing and he has no fancy photos.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by mahigitam

 

From the above statement, you are already judging and making statements about how an ET craft would be, about its parts and its detailed construction which is a blunder mainly at two levels.
First one is, "Object in the photo is an ET craft" is a premise and hence not falsifiable but only falsifiable after gathering enough evidence..
Second one is, Here we are dealing with alleged ET's who are 8000 years ahead in technology and 30 million years ahead in spiritual evolution(not falsifiable & a premise). Making exclusive statements about their crafts and their propulsion systems is a premature argument.

So your statement regarding the supposed,"fallen part" fails

It does not fail, as its only a small part of the evidence that proves the wedding cake photos are hoaxed, just like the rest of the case.

Thats quite a weak excuse you make about them being 8000 years ahead , and i can't make those assumptions. It is clearly a part of the model that has fallen off!

Not just that, it is clearly a model very close to the camera, hence the reason why the ufo is sharp, and the house in the backround blurry. Also, the reason why you can't see relfections from the balls, is because the balls are small.

You talk about critcal thinking, but the evidence is there for everyone to see. If you can't see it, then you will never see it

I accept that the dustbin lid is similar or almost similar to the object in the photo.
But you have resorted to same mistake - No premises considered
Look in pg 3, for a list of premises, which resolves above conundrum

No, they are not similar, they are exactly the same.

In CR 16, May 1975, Semjase makes the weather-fir tree disappear into past & also removes this event from the memories of those who has it.
Now is this statement falsifiable, i dont think so as here we are dealing with alleged ET Technology..moreover we have evidence that points to the proposition that the tree has been there before - 2 witnesses & owner in whose farm resides the disappeared weather-fir tree.

From your arguments, what i understood basically is, you avoided the fundamental aspect in investigating a case, which is considering premises, gather evidence, making logical connections and finally coming to conclusion.
I prefer objective analysis rather than subjective validation.

Can't you see that this is an excuse, and the only reason why he came out with that excuse is because he was questioned about it. and to be honest, the paladiens doing this just does not make any sense. Why the hell did they give him ufo photos,movies,metal samples, ufo noise samples and raygun photo and tree damage, only for them to get rid of the tree's?

And about the tree in the farm. They said there was never a tree there, hence the reason why meier said their minds were erased with the memory of the tree.

Im not being funny, but you sound like just another meier believer who is blind to the evidencethat shows 100% that this case is a hoax. So, it is going to be very hard to debate with you. You can throw scientific words in my face that don't really mean anything regarding this case because the evidence is plain to see.

Every time meier gets caught out, he comes out with some stupid excuse. But the sad fact of the matter is, meier believers will believe it

Thats quite a weak excuse you make about them being 8000 years ahead , and i can't make those assumptions. It is clearly a part of the model that has fallen off!

If the case we are dealing with pertains to either civil or crime incident, we have some degree of freedom to consider propositions that makes sense to us which for the most part falls in our daily experiences & common sense..but here we are dealing with ET(alleged) case, which falls into the realm of unknown, the only reliable tool we have, to process such cases is logic and our intellectual capacity and ofcourse evidence offered by the claiming party...
Now if you think, you dont need premises or assumptions while investigating any case, then its fine..but if you say that to find or validate the truth of any case, we can neglect, following any rational process.then i have to disagree with that.

I dont see much difference between your statement on alleged ET craft's "fallen" part & ET's technological ability to make tree disappear into past with common statements make by "experts/scientists" who make various assertions like
a) If intelligent life(thousand yeas ahead in evolution) is present outside the earth, then they would have visited and contacted us, since they didnt it means there is no intelligent life outthere.
b) It is impossible to cross immense distances, as nothing can cross the speed of light. So even if alien life exists they cant have interplanetary or intergalactic travel capability...
and so on...

These "experts/scientists" asserted things based on their knowledge which is limited and imprisoned by their belief system and known data which is also limited...but only through logic can we infer that we are not the only ones in universe...which is a fair scientific statement(based on new data)..Ofcourse these "experts/scientists", dont have the data to work on and revise their theories..but we have in Billy Meier case.

Can't you see that this is an excuse

If Meier offered statements regarding the reason(Plejaren influencing certain selected earth people) for having similar look of WCUFO to various parts after the incident happened, then our argument has some strength in it...but Meier has already told public about Plejaren's mission and their influence on earth in 1975, 5-6 years before he took WCUFO photos..After 1981, Meier offered detailed explanation on, from whom and how did the construction plans of the alleged ET craft changed hands and finally reached various locations & available as different products in the market...
Now, Can we prove that , ET's didnt send impulses ? No, we cant..these claims are beyond our reach to validate or put to test...they are not verifiable but they are logical & plausible..that is the reason why they are included in the premises set...If there is no supporting evidence for claims made by the concerned party, then we can conclude that there is no basis or truth to his claims....and ask him for more evidence

I am not interested to make person-directed statements but only interested at evaluating arguments putforth by other interested parties..so i am not going to respond to former statements..

Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by mahigitam
Hello Subject X,
Yes as Meier claims are not verifiable on some issues, my position on those areas is that they cannot be asserted as either "Case is proven as a hoax" or "Case is proven as true"...and so we need more data to verify the claims of Meier based on evidence available...which by the way is available as plenty in Meier case...

Hello mahigitam

If you cannot verify a claim as true or false, don't use such claims as part of a "logical" argument. You cannot use unverifiable claims to logically prove unveriable claims.

Yes, there is evidence a-plenty available on the Meier case. The problem is that any examinable evidence shows the case to be hoax, assuming you leave out unverifiable twaddle such as blocked/erased memories, or anything else the "Plejarens" might have told him.

Hi,
I am not proving here anything, all i am saying is that there is no strong conclusive evidence to make judgements regarding WCUFO's similar form and shape..as the reason for this is perfectly logical and plausible according the premises...unfortunately we cannot verify it, so does it make us to jump to conclusion that the case is a hoax..which surely a biased person will certainly do..but for someone who values objectivity, he demands more evidence and unless more supportive evidence is provided he will remain with that ambiguity on the case

Originally posted by youthsavior
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Well I've been trying to have a more critical eye on the matter and have doubted this case multiple times, but I can tell you one thing for sure that attests to my belief and that is ever since I learned about Billy Meier and his teachings from Billy Meier supporting sites like FIGU etc. my life has been changed and for the better. It's the knowledge that I have learned from him that has helped connect me with the world and extraterrestrial energies. I feel a lot better about myself and my life and what the actual purpose of our life is. I've started meditating, and being as spiritual as a person as I can. I've learned so much and I support the person who has taught me the majority of these things. And I can proudly say that these things have helped my soul and spirit and made me a better person overall. Regardless of how credible you think he is, once your read his teachings you will feel enlightened and understand the true meaning of things. You fail to acknowledge this though and that's why I keep beating into your head that you should look into this differently. I'm trying to help you. If you don't want my help than so be it. You can suffer with the rest of them when the time comes. You will also discover on your own over time what the truth is in all this and then look back at things and say, oh, maybe I should of listened. Hate on me all you want for me learning about life. And about some of my previous posts. They weren't necessarily accurate and I would take back some of things I've said. But, it's all about learning.

Peace be with you.

Hey, im in a very good place within myself. How did i get there? Well, i travelled and lived in China which opened me up in many ways. I don't need a hoaxer to make me feel that way, as im stronger than that.

But you have basically proved me right. You are never going to change your opinion of meier, no matter what evidence that you are shown. Its good that you feel happy, its just a shame that you got there from listening to a hoaxer. What he teaches has been round for years, so its not like what he says is unique. But what he does have is the power to brainwash weak minded people. Thats how most cults work.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by subject x

 

I have debated with many meier believers, and you do see a pattern with all these people. They are completly blinded, even brainwashed with the case. Very much like religon. They will believe everything that comes out of meier's mouth, so in a sense, he can do know wrong.

Someone realises that the tree's are not really there. He comes out with a crap excuse, and these people believe him.

Someone finds evidence that he took photos of the dean martin show and said they were paladiens. He makes up an excuse, and people believe him.

Someone finds evidence that the dinosour photos are from a book. He comes out with a stupid excuse, and people believe him.

I could go on and on! This case is more like a cult now, and these people are truely brainwashed.

This is the question i alwasy ask. So, these paladiens chose billy meier to spread the word, right? So, what do we get? t-shirts,dvd's posters, mugs etc. Can anyone else see the problem with this? Did they come from anather planet and say "you must sell your story with t-shirts, dvd's mugs,posters etc. The whole thing is just a complet joke, and an insult to the ufo subject, and the reason why the subjet is not taken seriously and laughed at!

Someone finds evidence that the dinosour photos are from a book. He comes out with a stupid excuse, and people believe him.

Hi Jay-Morris,

Can you show me where Meier claims that the Dinosaur photos are his..since 1975, he never claimed those photos are his..as these photos are not his, they were also not available in FIGU's album and also Meier never sold these...
The explanations regarding this issue are available to broad public(online) since 2005 here
www.figu.org...
and recently been translated into english here
futureofmankind.co.uk...

Happy reading..

reply to post by mahigitam


What pure nonsense. All you are doing is ignoring the evidence that proves this is a hoax. You may like to use words like "critical thinking" and trying to be "scientific" but at the end of the day, you are doing what hundreds of meier believers do, and that is ignore the facts. There is more than enough evidence that prove the wedding cake photos are fake. You my firend are def not using your critical thinking.

Originally posted by tom502

Plejaran would give "us" something that is not easily disputed. Some QUALITY films and pictures, not static craft stuck in a vanishing tree. Give us a real landed craft, with Billy standing in the doorway.

Sorry tom, its not going to happen as offering undeniable evidence is not in Plejaren's mission. If only you could familiarize yourself with the purpose of the mission and reason behind the kind of evidence we are left with which encourages arguing and debating...you would have understood the whole phenomenon.
Try to read Contact Report(CR) 03, 1975...have a nice day

As long as there's a 'message' that 'hits home' in some way, con men and religious leaders will continue to get rich off their never-ending followers. Evidence means nothing in the face of 'gut feelings'.

reply to post by youthsavior


Billy Meier was a hoaxer. Lee and Britt Elder, Wendelle Stevens, and Jim Dilettoso were either incredibly stupid and gullible or knew he was a hoaxer and decided they could cash in on his hoax too, I'm betting the latter.. There is no doubting this as it has been repeatedly exposed. I doubt if there ever was anything factual behind Meier's story but suppose he could have had a typical "lights in the sky" sighting and contrived his hoax from there.

Keep an open mind but not so open your brains fall out.

Jay-Morris are you sure your not brainwashed? Because you can't even respect another persons point of view and think that yours is right and it will never change!

reply to post by youthsavior


By the way? You say you have been researching his case for years. Pffffff....

Originally posted by youthsavior
Jay-Morris are you sure your not brainwashed? Because you can't even respect another persons point of view and think that yours is right and it will never change!

How the hell does that make me brainwashed!? This is a forum, and this is a debate, and its frustrating when you are debating someone who's mind is already made up. Its annoying when you are debating with someone who knows little about the case, but swears its real. And its dad that you have learned so much with meier's teachings when the same teaching have been around for years. Thats sad!

Originally posted by youthsavior
reply to post by youthsavior

 

By the way? You say you have been researching his case for years. Pffffff....

Lol don't even go there. Don't make yourself look stupid. It was me that told you to go and do some research then come back. Why did i say that? because it was obvious you know very little about the case.

If anyone wants to know what type of believer you are, all they have to do is look at your post history. You are very very gullible, and thats a shame

reply to post by mahigitam

Hi Jay-Morris,

Can you show me where Meier claims that the Dinosaur photos are his..since 1975, he never claimed those photos are his..as these photos are not his, they were also not available in FIGU's album and also Meier never sold these...
The explanations regarding this issue are available to broad public(online) since 2005 here
www.figu.org...
and recently been translated into english here
futureofmankind.co.uk...

Happy reading..

Why is it that meier always seems to make a BS story up when he gets caught out? Oh, and by the way, this is what Mr horn thinks of the dinosaur photos.

Regarding the dinosaur photos, I'll do my best. There are a number of photos, i.e. the

dinosaur, a primitive man, the Asket photos, some photos in space, on/above Mars, etc. that

caused problems because they look to be faked. When one reads the early Contact Notes where

Meier is describing some of the scenes that he is photographing, they're quite convincing

narratives. And, with such things as the Jupiter (Venus, Saturn and two planets beyond Pluto)

information, it ultimately was proved to be extremely accurate...well after Meier first

published.

But as Meier's photos and films drew greater attention, and attempts to kill the man failed,

it seemed that the next best means of attacking him was to destroy his credibility. It appears

that certain things, like the dinosaur photos, presented the perfect opportunity. Add to this

that it's said that Meier may have put certain photos in his binder to show the closest things

to what he saw (if he didn't photograph them) and you have the makings of a mess, no two ways

about it

So, we have Mr horn saying nothing about the photos being planted. Instead, coming out with another BS excuse.