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To All of You Who Doubt The Billy Meier (HOAX): Watch this.

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posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by tom502
 


Yeah, I don't know.... There is a bunch of "evidence" that it's a hoax, but im not sure as to what was planted on him and what he claims is his. Like i said in a thread i made today. abovetopsecret.com...
We will never really know who's telling the truth and who isn't until we find out with our own eye's or everyone acknowledges it. I personally am starting to think that Billy purposely included fake photo's mixed in with the real ones to see the public's reaction and see who could figure out the truth behind it all. The problem with this though, is it completely worked against him and people now think he is a fraud. He brought it all upon himself. Nevertheless i'm going to continue to research this because this is a very complex and important case that should not be overlooked.




posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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I have a hard time believing in the Pleidieans even existing. I think the real aliens are the Grays. But that aside, I think the big hoax thing about Meier, is, he claims to be in contact, actual physical contact, even having flown in their craft and been to other worlds and back in time and the future, of course his photos of these events are proven fakes, but what gets me, is if he was IN CONTACT, now, and since what, the 70's, 60's? I don't remember, but it's been a while, and these Pleiadians, now called Plejaran, wanted to give him proof, why did they not give some REAL undisputed proof? I mean the so-called "proof" we get are a bunch of hokey, though some nice in an artistic manner, photos and wobbly footage, that does not really show a craft moving under intelligent control. When I first hear of the Meier case, I was amazed, and a near believer, I was on the fence, and leaning on the believer side, but this case, the more you examine it, and the players in it, the more it's too unbelieveable and just screams out hoax. Meier is not, or does not seem dumb to me, he also has a background in eastern spirituality, so it would not be unbelievable for him to be the sole author of his "contact notes". I think he's pretty smart, and plays the simple farmer role. He's been around. Now, that said, I don't see anything "bad" about his "teachings", though I disagree with his view on animals and pets, he makes it like the Plejaran would fall over dead of sickness if a cat brushed up on them. Anyway, the case is just too hokey and full of logical holes. I mean, if this was real, then the Plejaran can show us some REAL evidence, not some sound, or a clump of metal, or a ship stuck in a tree, or a wobbly film.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by tom502
 


I agree with you to a certain extent and you have a lot of good points. What was said about animals however is that they should live free like humans, it doesn't mean we can't be friends with them. Also, you mentioned that there is no undisputed proof but there actually is. Some of the photos he's taken are crystal clear and have been proven to be authentic, he does have the evidence but it's gotten all mixed up the the fake mumbo jumbo. That being said we need new some new evidence.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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But, we will not be getting any new evidence. There will be no more evidence, other than the "contact notes", and when Billy passes on, as he is getting up there, there will be no one to take his place, and all contact will stop. This to me is enough to tell me the case is not true. And I got this info from simply asking them.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by youthsavior
Some of the photos he's taken are crystal clear and have been proven to be authentic,


No, they have not been proven authentic. How could they be, when Meier is a known hoaxer?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by tom502
..and when Billy passes on, as he is getting up there, there will be no one to take his place, and all contact will stop.This to me is enoughell me the case is not true. And I got this info from simply asking them.


I wonder how you got to that conclusion from "After Billy's death, there will be no more contacts"...



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by mahigitam

Originally posted by tom502
..and when Billy passes on, as he is getting up there, there will be no one to take his place, and all contact will stop.This to me is enoughell me the case is not true. And I got this info from simply asking them.


I wonder how you got to that conclusion from "After Billy's death, there will be no more contacts"...


I directly asked Mr. Horn this question, considering Billy's age, and wondering myself if someone else would be the new contact person, and he said no, there would not be another to carry on with the contacts.

They also claim Billy is the ONLY one in contact.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by tom502
 


Billy has been told that his mission will take more than one lifetime to complete. He will reincarnate several times to carry on his work.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by tom502
 


Yes after Billy's death, there will be no contacts with Plejaren. One may ask why?

1] Plejaren mission on earth is officially over in 1995 and they say they have fulfilled their mission without any failures except a few mistakes here and there which araised as a result of misunderstanding about the nature of earth humanbeings or it was the best way to know certain things...(Ex: Theorem from Computation theory - One of the shortest ways to predict how the algorithm works is to run & observe it)

2] No other person on earth are capable to be in contact with Plejaren

Ofcourse, there will be successors to Billy, someone who will be the head of FIGU and look after various works done by them..but not in contact with Plejaren because there was no reason to do so, as i said before their mission is over back in 1995(a decade before)...

One may ask, there were so many controversies, so many claims made by many calling the case a "hoax"..then how could Plejaren say they have fulfilled their mission here on earth...which brings us back to the basic most fundamental question - " What is the mission of Plejaren on earth"....
If one carefully listens to what Plejaren have been saying aboout their mission since January,1975(available as contact reports), then the so called controversies, hoax claims seem to be baseless after all...

Billy Meier for one last time will take the post of a prophet in future which will be his last incarnation on earth and after that it is said that he will be taken to another planet where the spiritual teachings are needed..and this process continues for so long until all the descendent races of Nokodemoin recognizes the true meaning of life..
In the mean time, Billy will be born ion various countries and later will join FIGU but not work as a head. He will be ofcourse recognized by some or all of CG members and will continue to help mission in his own way..
edit on 6-3-2011 by mahigitam because: later added more



posted on Mar, 7 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by mahigitam
 


You say there is no way of knowing if the ufo's (wedding cake) are large or small objects in the photos. Well, we just have to look at the facts. Some of the photos (wedding cake ufo by the house) is clearly a small object by the camera. Also, if you look at the photo, you will see that a small part of the model has fallen off. Also, you have to take into account that the base of the ufo is exactly the same size and look of a certain dustbin lid. Has the same amount of lines, and small handles.

Also, the wedding cake photos by the tree's. Where did the tree's go?Do you believe his excuse that the paladiens erased the tree's, and the memmory of the tree's from the mind of the people around that area? Do you really buy that?

Im quite busy at the moment. But choose a photo to talk about, and i will get back to you.



posted on Mar, 7 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by mahigitam
reply to post by tom502
 


Yes after Billy's death, there will be no contacts with Plejaren. One may ask why?

1] Plejaren mission on earth is officially over in 1995 and they say they have fulfilled their mission without any failures except a few mistakes here and there which araised as a result of misunderstanding about the nature of earth humanbeings or it was the best way to know certain things...(Ex: Theorem from Computation theory - One of the shortest ways to predict how the algorithm works is to run & observe it)

2] No other person on earth are capable to be in contact with Plejaren

Ofcourse, there will be successors to Billy, someone who will be the head of FIGU and look after various works done by them..but not in contact with Plejaren because there was no reason to do so, as i said before their mission is over back in 1995(a decade before)...

One may ask, there were so many controversies, so many claims made by many calling the case a "hoax"..then how could Plejaren say they have fulfilled their mission here on earth...which brings us back to the basic most fundamental question - " What is the mission of Plejaren on earth"....
If one carefully listens to what Plejaren have been saying aboout their mission since January,1975(available as contact reports), then the so called controversies, hoax claims seem to be baseless after all...

Billy Meier for one last time will take the post of a prophet in future which will be his last incarnation on earth and after that it is said that he will be taken to another planet where the spiritual teachings are needed..and this process continues for so long until all the descendent races of Nokodemoin recognizes the true meaning of life..
In the mean time, Billy will be born ion various countries and later will join FIGU but not work as a head. He will be ofcourse recognized by some or all of CG members and will continue to help mission in his own way..
edit on 6-3-2011 by mahigitam because: later added more


Do you actually believe this! ?



posted on Mar, 7 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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I sure don't. It's nonsense. These "teachings" even are not all that, and mimic the same things other contactees have said, as well as "new age" and eastern spiritual teachings tell. We know Billy was not an idiot, or a dumb simple farmer, he even lived in India and was part of an ashram. I am sure he learned the basic eastern spiritual teachings, which is the same essence as the teachings as the Plejaran. If the Plejaran wanted to give Billy REAL proof to prove his whole story, they could have, and would have. But, instead all we have is some decent pictures of models.



posted on Mar, 7 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by tom502
I sure don't. It's nonsense. These "teachings" even are not all that, and mimic the same things other contactees have said, as well as "new age" and eastern spiritual teachings tell. We know Billy was not an idiot, or a dumb simple farmer, he even lived in India and was part of an ashram. I am sure he learned the basic eastern spiritual teachings, which is the same essence as the teachings as the Plejaran. If the Plejaran wanted to give Billy REAL proof to prove his whole story, they could have, and would have. But, instead all we have is some decent pictures of models.


You are right! Billy is only recycling what has already been said, and been said for hundreds of years.



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by mahigitam
 


You say there is no way of knowing if the ufo's (wedding cake) are large or small objects in the photos. Well, we just have to look at the facts. Some of the photos (wedding cake ufo by the house) is clearly a small object by the camera. Also, if you look at the photo, you will see that a small part of the model has fallen off. Also, you have to take into account that the base of the ufo is exactly the same size and look of a certain dustbin lid. Has the same amount of lines, and small handles.

Also, the wedding cake photos by the tree's. Where did the tree's go?Do you believe his excuse that the paladiens erased the tree's, and the memmory of the tree's from the mind of the people around that area? Do you really buy that?

Im quite busy at the moment. But choose a photo to talk about, and i will get back to you.


Hi Jay-Morris,
To learn/gain knowledge/investigate/discuss/debate about something(be it philosophically, scientifically, mathematically, legally, socially,....) one should always start with a set of premises or propositions(axioms in mathematics), which are available as the information/data in the case.
If one disregards & abandons this scientific approach, i doubt that they will ever reach the truth.

WCUFO:
-------------
In my previous post(page 5), i made a set of propositions from which i made logical deductions, inferences from data at hand & reached a conclusion. If you find something wrong with my procedure, we can have a discussion on that.
I like to have a discussion on any particular set of evidence offered my Meier(as you too do)...but the way you and others are approaching & dealing the case cannot be considered a critical thinking process. I will mention below few points where you made some logical fallacies in your construction of arguments.




"Also, if you look at the photo, you will see that a small part of the model has fallen off."


From the above statement, you are already judging and making statements about how an ET craft would be, about its parts and its detailed construction which is a blunder mainly at two levels.
First one is, "Object in the photo is an ET craft" is a premise and hence not falsifiable but only falsifiable after gathering enough evidence..
Second one is, Here we are dealing with alleged ET's who are 8000 years ahead in technology and 30 million years ahead in spiritual evolution(not falsifiable & a premise). Making exclusive statements about their crafts and their propulsion systems is a premature argument.

So your statement regarding the supposed,"fallen part" fails.




Also, you have to take into account that the base of the ufo is exactly the same size and look of a certain dustbin lid. Has the same amount of lines, and small handles.


I accept that the dustbin lid is similar or almost similar to the object in the photo.
But you have resorted to same mistake - No premises considered
Look in pg 3, for a list of premises, which resolves above conundrum





Also, the wedding cake photos by the tree's. Where did the tree's go?Do you believe his excuse that the paladiens erased the tree's, and the memmory of the tree's from the mind of the people around that area? Do you really buy that?


In CR 16, May 1975, Semjase makes the weather-fir tree disappear into past & also removes this event from the memories of those who has it.
Now is this statement falsifiable, i dont think so as here we are dealing with alleged ET Technology..moreover we have evidence that points to the proposition that the tree has been there before - 2 witnesses & owner in whose farm resides the disappeared weather-fir tree.

From your arguments, what i understood basically is, you avoided the fundamental aspect in investigating a case, which is considering premises, gather evidence, making logical connections and finally coming to conclusion.
I prefer objective analysis rather than subjective validation.



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by tom502
 


Hi Tom,
Ofcourse some of what Billy says, coincides with the eastern teachings; as i am from india, I know this for a fact.
But there is alot of nonsense surrounding the eastern teachings, where the original teachings were lost in translations & retranslations and many other reasons....

And also there is alot more information available in Billy's teachings which is not present in any of the sacred books available to public..Much of this info is available freely in various websites and also as torrents. Hope you find what you seek.

Have a nice day



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by mahigitam
In my previous post(page 5), i made a set of propositions from which i made logical deductions, inferences from data at hand & reached a conclusion. If you find something wrong with my procedure, we can have a discussion on that.

I have a bit of an issue with your procedure. Some of your "premises" from which you try to build a logical argument are not verifiable, and are in fact some of the claims which are being argued against.

As an example, let's look at this "premise":

Originally posted by mahigitam
4 - Fast development of science & technology in the last 100 years is influenced by Plejaren & Allies through impulse contacts or by sending impulses to sensitive writers, scientists, artists, engineers,....which also continues to exist (CR 03, Feb,1975)

The above point 4, is not falsifiable & infact it should be considered as a premise..

While it may be "not falsifiable", it's also not verifiable. Attempting to use Meier's claims to prove Meir's claims is a logical fallacy, and thereby an invalid argument. It's much like using the Bible to prove that what the Bible says is true. This kind of argument gets you nowhere, as I'm sure you'd agree.

I'd suggest that you re-think your argument and try to build your logical structure on a firmer foundation. Otherwise, your construct will always crumble and fall.



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by mahigitam
In my previous post(page 5), i made a set of propositions from which i made logical deductions, inferences from data at hand & reached a conclusion. If you find something wrong with my procedure, we can have a discussion on that.

I have a bit of an issue with your procedure. Some of your "premises" from which you try to build a logical argument are not verifiable, and are in fact some of the claims which are being argued against.

As an example, let's look at this "premise":

Originally posted by mahigitam
4 - Fast development of science & technology in the last 100 years is influenced by Plejaren & Allies through impulse contacts or by sending impulses to sensitive writers, scientists, artists, engineers,....which also continues to exist (CR 03, Feb,1975)

The above point 4, is not falsifiable & infact it should be considered as a premise..

While it may be "not falsifiable", it's also not verifiable. Attempting to use Meier's claims to prove Meir's claims is a logical fallacy, and thereby an invalid argument. It's much like using the Bible to prove that what the Bible says is true. This kind of argument gets you nowhere, as I'm sure you'd agree.

I'd suggest that you re-think your argument and try to build your logical structure on a firmer foundation. Otherwise, your construct will always crumble and fall.


Hello Subject X,
Yes as Meier claims are not verifiable on some issues, my position on those areas is that they cannot be asserted as either "Case is proven as a hoax" or "Case is proven as true"...and so we need more data to verify the claims of Meier based on evidence available...which by the way is available as plenty in Meier case...



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by mahigitam
 





From the above statement, you are already judging and making statements about how an ET craft would be, about its parts and its detailed construction which is a blunder mainly at two levels.
First one is, "Object in the photo is an ET craft" is a premise and hence not falsifiable but only falsifiable after gathering enough evidence..
Second one is, Here we are dealing with alleged ET's who are 8000 years ahead in technology and 30 million years ahead in spiritual evolution(not falsifiable & a premise). Making exclusive statements about their crafts and their propulsion systems is a premature argument.

So your statement regarding the supposed,"fallen part" fails


It does not fail, as its only a small part of the evidence that proves the wedding cake photos are hoaxed, just like the rest of the case. Thats quite a weak excuse you make about them being 8000 years ahead , and i can't make those assumptions. It is clearly a part of the model that has fallen off! Not just that, it is clearly a model very close to the camera, hence the reason why the ufo is sharp, and the house in the backround blurry. Also, the reason why you can't see relfections from the balls, is because the balls are small.

You talk about critcal thinking, but the evidence is there for everyone to see. If you can't see it, then you will never see it





I accept that the dustbin lid is similar or almost similar to the object in the photo.
But you have resorted to same mistake - No premises considered
Look in pg 3, for a list of premises, which resolves above conundrum



No, they are not similar, they are exactly the same.




In CR 16, May 1975, Semjase makes the weather-fir tree disappear into past & also removes this event from the memories of those who has it.
Now is this statement falsifiable, i dont think so as here we are dealing with alleged ET Technology..moreover we have evidence that points to the proposition that the tree has been there before - 2 witnesses & owner in whose farm resides the disappeared weather-fir tree.

From your arguments, what i understood basically is, you avoided the fundamental aspect in investigating a case, which is considering premises, gather evidence, making logical connections and finally coming to conclusion.
I prefer objective analysis rather than subjective validation.



Can't you see that this is an excuse, and the only reason why he came out with that excuse is because he was questioned about it. and to be honest, the paladiens doing this just does not make any sense. Why the hell did they give him ufo photos,movies,metal samples, ufo noise samples and raygun photo and tree damage, only for them to get rid of the tree's?

And about the tree in the farm. They said there was never a tree there, hence the reason why meier said their minds were erased with the memory of the tree.

Im not being funny, but you sound like just another meier believer who is blind to the evidencethat shows 100% that this case is a hoax. So, it is going to be very hard to debate with you. You can throw scientific words in my face that don't really mean anything regarding this case because the evidence is plain to see.

Every time meier gets caught out, he comes out with some stupid excuse. But the sad fact of the matter is, meier believers will believe it



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by mahigitam
Hello Subject X,
Yes as Meier claims are not verifiable on some issues, my position on those areas is that they cannot be asserted as either "Case is proven as a hoax" or "Case is proven as true"...and so we need more data to verify the claims of Meier based on evidence available...which by the way is available as plenty in Meier case...

Hello mahigitam

If you cannot verify a claim as true or false, don't use such claims as part of a "logical" argument. You cannot use unverifiable claims to logically prove unveriable claims.

Yes, there is evidence a-plenty available on the Meier case. The problem is that any examinable evidence shows the case to be hoax, assuming you leave out unverifiable twaddle such as blocked/erased memories, or anything else the "Plejarens" might have told him.



posted on Mar, 8 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by subject x
 


I have debated with many meier believers, and you do see a pattern with all these people. They are completly blinded, even brainwashed with the case. Very much like religon. They will believe everything that comes out of meier's mouth, so in a sense, he can do know wrong.

Someone realises that the tree's are not really there. He comes out with a crap excuse, and these people believe him.

Someone finds evidence that he took photos of the dean martin show and said they were paladiens. He makes up an excuse, and people believe him.

Someone finds evidence that the dinosour photos are from a book. He comes out with a stupid excuse, and people believe him.

I could go on and on! This case is more like a cult now, and these people are truely brainwashed.

This is the question i alwasy ask. So, these paladiens chose billy meier to spread the word, right? So, what do we get? t-shirts,dvd's posters, mugs etc. Can anyone else see the problem with this? Did they come from anather planet and say "you must sell your story with t-shirts, dvd's mugs,posters etc. The whole thing is just a complet joke, and an insult to the ufo subject, and the reason why the subjet is not taken seriously and laughed at!





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