To All of You Who Doubt The Billy Meier (HOAX): Watch this.

Originally posted by Jay-morris

The evidence is overwhelming that meier is a fraud. I really can't understand why people are still blind to this case. Even to the point that they believe every lame excuse that meier comes out with to save his bacon.

Hi Jay-Morris
When i say,'let us chat outside this forum', i meant it because on this forum we have to wait for another day to post our reply and in the mean time, some other person directs the discussion to other area of his interest..etc.

Before we start focussing our attention on particular kind of evidence(photos, video, metal, audio, contact notes,..)...it is very important how we interpret data..most interpret it according to their own motives,prejudices,...and coming to the conclusion that case is either a 'hoax' or 'not a hoax'. As i pointed out in my previous posts...to come to a conclusion..first we need to look at the data, not just a part of data but the whole data available on that particular incident in context to the whole case...

I like to remind all the members of this forum, on what kind of case we are dealing with here(just think of the implications, consequences if the case is 'not a hoax' but true) & howmuch attention, energy & critical thinking is required by us to find out the truth...many seemed to be concerned only about the superficial arguments & partial evidence but not the whole evidence from which one should always draw conclusions....i would like to propose a healthy debate where if one finds flaws in reasoning, making inferences, interpretation of data.. of others..then it is the responsibility of the other person to acknowledge it and make corrections to his theories and come up with new strong arguments which involves the whole data on the case...Please "Google-Critical Thinking"..and try to employ those steps which most of us here have neglected while evaluating the case...

Jay Morris, i am interested to know your theory on the whole case(if there exists one) which should explain (atleast the important events present in the case spanning from 1964 upto now) with evidence..
There are many controversies in the case like
Photos of dinosaur, WCUFO, ray gun, universal barrier, God's eye, San Francisco earthquake, Asket & Nera, disappearance of trees, burned photos..videos..Kalliope's acusations...

Pick anyone of the above or anything of your choice and let us have free and open discussion...

p.s.: I am more interested to have a chat with you as we can raise our objections in real time...have a nice day

reply to post by mahigitam


Mahigitam I appreciate your willingness to discuss this with Jay-Morris.. I don't have much time at work to put together a worthy post to debate with. But like I told him, I'm going to do some research and will join in with you two very soon.

reply to post by mahigitam


What you don't seem to understand is the fact hat every part of this casehas been de-bunked. If you have critical thinking" then surely you would come to the same conclusion. I have looked at every aspect of this case, but if you want to start a debate on a certain part on the case, then lets do it.

Ok, lets start with the wedding cake photos. Before we start, please tell me what you think of these photos?

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by mahigitam

 

Ok, lets start with the wedding cake photos. Before we start, please tell me what you think of these photos?

GIVEN DATA:
--------------------
1 - WCUFO pictures are taken in 1980 & 1981 by Billy Meier(CR 139,144,147)
2 - No lab tests were conducted on WCUFO pictures or negatives
3 - 4 different sizes of WCUFO's - 7 m, 14 m, 21 m & 28 m in diameter(CR 139,1980)
4 - Fast development of science & technology in the last 100 years is influenced by Plejaren & Allies through impulse contacts or by sending impulses to sensitive writers, scientists, artists, engineers,....which also continues to exist (CR 03, Feb,1975)

From the above given data,
As no scientific testing was done on photos in the lab, we can in no way conclusively say that the object in the photo is either small or large one with their "claimed" sizes. Any other analysis done will give us no precise data. But for anyone to evaluate the photos they need to know the location of the scene, correct sizes of other objects in the scene, the weather at that time, kind of camera used and camera settings used to capture that particular snap..etc

The above point 4, is not falsifiable & infact it should be considered as a premise...Only thing we can do is to philosophically argue as to whether by doing that(sending impulses), are the Plejaren doing any harm or doing any good to earth in general..IMO, i dont find any contradictions with their actions(sending impulses) when evaluated in respect to their mission here on earth which is stated in my post on 1-3- 2011, page 3 of this thread..

What about the parts of WCUFO being similar or same in size to those of other different parts ?
When considered point 4, which plejaren made in CR 03, 1975..the above "anamoly" can be viewed as a logical consequence of their actions, that is, sending impulses to various scientists..which is better explained in CR 254,1995

I believe the Meier case a hoax. But I was on the fence for a while. I bought and read what books on it I could find, as well as watched whatever vids I could find. I really wanted this to be real. It's a very exciting story. But I have decided it's a hoax based on a few things:

1. No really GOOD photos. We are told the Plejaran allowed Billy to take his photos as PROOF. Yet, while many of the photos do look COOL, many look downright FAKE, the ship STUCK in the tree, and the "landed" ships, and the Wedding cake thing. I mean, to me, IF this was TRUE, we would get some REAL amazing photos where it's not hokey, and not in perspective, or stuck in a tree, or appearing to be swiviling on a string.

I mean, if he was in CONTACT with the aliens, who were allowing him, telling him, to take photos and films, if this was true, we'd have some footage that would not be disputed, and not things that can be easily replicated with models. Now if such footage came about today, we'd say CGI or photoshop, but if he had truly amazing footage back then, it would be believable, rather than the pretty desktop photos he has.

2. I asked Mr. Horn what would happen when Billy passes on? Are the Plejaran preparing to keep in contact with someone else? Billy's son? Anyone? And he told me no. After Billy passes on, it's all over. The contacts will stop. Now, I am thinking IF this case is true, why would it all stop? In the case info, it says that others have seen the Plejaran and their craft as well. Why in all these years of contact, the Plejaran would close the book when Billy passes on? That just didn't make sense to me.

I enjoy the Meier case for it's entertainment value, of which I believe it has a lot, but I am at the verdict that it is a hoax, though I wish it wasn't.

Though my interests in contacts have led me to 2 people I think may not be hoaxes, Romanek, and Reed.

reply to post by tom502


Valid point, and I see where your coming from but how about these photo's

There good quality, look at the date and tell me what you think...

Also scientists have examined the photo's, and at least one of the batches they examined were proven to be real, solely because of the pixels and that a fake would have larger pixels. Also by looking at the objects density they determined that the fakes would be all one color however the photo's Billy gave them showed that they were complex objects of varying densities and colors. Also, they were able to determine the objects distance and determined it to be far away and not close up held by a string. Check em out!

www.steelmarkonline.com...

www.futureofmankind.co.uk...

Some photo's do seem fake, but there is also a handful that don't. Even though this case has been classified hoax, it should be re opened.

reply to post by youthsavior


Thank you for the second link . There is a very good video on this site that I have never seen before and If I can find it on u tube it is worthy of its own thread. It is on this page here: www.futureofmankind.co.uk...

I think also if this case is REAL, and Billy remains in CONTACT, then let's have some NEW photos and video! I asked Mr. Horn why there is no new footage, and he said it would just be called photoshop or cgi, but I don't think that's a valid answer. Give us some NEW footage, the old stuff really don't hold up, no matter what someone may have said about pixels.

Originally posted by youthsavior
Also scientists have examined the photo's, and at least one of the batches they examined were proven to be real, solely because of the pixels and that a fake would have larger pixels.

From what I understand, Meier took his pictures with a 35mm film camera. Pictures from such a camera don't have pixels. What does that say about the above mentioned "scientists"?

Unless, of course, Billy has released more recent pictures shot with a digital camera, although I haven't seen anything like that. If this is the case, please link me to the new pictures.

reply to post by bluemooone2


I didn't even see that video! Wow! It's a pretty good one too. Are you going to post it though? You should!

reply to post by subject x


No there aren't any new ones I'm aware of but if you watch the video in the OP and you skim around and look for scientists in a lab, you will find it. It talks about how they examined the photos in the minutest details!

These so-called "scientists" that have examined the Meier "evidence" have since been exposed to not be true experts in their supposed fields. Let's have some NEW real experts examine these photos and films. I'd be interested. The Meier photos look cool, I have a nice one on my desktop, but they have been replicated with models. Now just because one can replicate a photo doesn't mean it's fake, but still, I think if the Plejaran wanted Billy to take some photos as proof, they would have given us amazing undisputed photos. It's so fakey looking, the landed craft pics, I have seen 2, one is the Wedding cake, that just so has parts falling off of it, "landed" next to a house, and another sleeker craft, that is warped, "landed" in a field, and these pics are so out of perspective and look just like models shot up close with an out of focus background. If this case was real, in what, 30 yrs since the last photos, we'd at least have some new and good pictures, and not just these models stuck in a moveable fake small tree. And it's said Billy remains in contact with them now currently. I wish it was true, but I just can't believe it. I do give him artistic credit for making some very nice photos and some great looking craft models. He must have been drunk though when he thought up the wedding cake craft.

Originally posted by youthsavior
No there aren't any new ones I'm aware of but if you watch the video in the OP and you skim around and look for scientists in a lab, you will find it. It talks about how they examined the photos in the minutest details!

Are those the same scientists who found pixels in a 35mm picture? If so, I see no reason to listen to anything they have to say.
Here is an episode of the Paracast with Michael Horn as the guest in which a "real" analysis shows how one of Meiers pictures is a fake. You might want to take the time to check it out, although you probably won't believe it, or claim that the picture was planted to discredit Meier.

reply to post by tom502


Eh, I still don't think that this whole thing is necessarily a hoax. But I would like to see some new evidence put forth by him. Also I'd like to see new examination of that new evidence. Until then we really can't be too sure. But in the meantime I am taking his word as I believe in his message more than his photo's etc. His message is what really struck home to me. And that's why I support him.

reply to post by subject x


No you should watch it, why? Because im not an expert scientist and might not be able to word things correctly or as they would have. So you need to watch it to make your own inferences. It's very important that you do.

reply to post by youthsavior

I watched it back when you first posted it. I think I may have mentioned that to you in another thread.
Either way, there was nothing "important" about it. Just more BS and lies from the Meier camp.

I know you believe, and think Meier is a prophet of some sort, but there is just so much information available which shows otherwise that it's difficult to imagine why anyone would buy his twaddle.

But believe as you will.

You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think.

I love the ideal of the Meier case. But I think the Reed and Romanek cases are more realistic and have better evidence. I'm more inclined to believe them as being true.

Have you read the Korff book? I don't know if he's 100% factual, but so much is so obvious fakery, like Meier's outer space photos, his photos of the Plejaran, the caveman, the dinosaur. I mean, too much of it is fakey. And even his "good" photos, could be models, and the landed and stuck in the tree photos look too much like models, and the wedding cake even has pieces falling off it.

I bought and have the Silent Revolution of Truth DVD, And Still They Fly book, Light Years book, and the Korff book, and have seen the older movie docs like CONTACT, and the Pleidian Chronicles. Yes, it's neat and interesting, but I am convinced it's fake. Now, have you seen the George Adamski material? There is a good long video doc on his case on youtube, and I think his stuff is more convincing than Meier's.

reply to post by subject x


My consciousness leads me to think, that what he's saying is something to live by, regardless of whether or not his photo's are real, some fake, etc, etc. and what people say about him.

reply to post by tom502


Ei yai yai!!! Kal Korf and Adamski are both major lairs!!!! I wouldn't believe a word Korff said. He even threatened to kill Michael Horn and he tried to sabotage BIlly's case!

I have read Korff's book, and it's an interesting read, and I think he did a good job exposing so many of the Meier fakes. If you want to really be unbiased, I think you should read it. I don't know about Adamski being a liar. I do know Horn and Korff have, or had, a sorta battle, but forget them all, and just look for oneself, look at the landed wedding cake photo with the building in the back of it, it's so fake, and even has pieces falling off it, and it totally out of perspective with the back ground, same with the over the truck photo, and over the car photo, it's so obvious it's a fake car, and the stuck in the tree photos are beyond fakey, and they even say the tree doesn't exist and the Plejaran zapped it away. C'mon, this case is fun, I'll admit, I would be going on so much, nor would I have bought these books and stuff if I didn't find it facinating and entertaining, but I believe it's a total hoax. I wish it wasn't. I am still waiting for evidence to blow me away, and sometimes things come close to that direction, but I hate to say it, the more I examine the Meier case. the more fake it comes to be.