Parents who smoke should be found unfit to be parents...

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
I cannot believe the amount of PERSONAL attacks that I am receiving

""Parents who smoke should be found unfit to be parents...""

You lit the fire and threw gasoline on it and youre wondering why youre getting burned?

You selected an entire demographic to attack and when they respond you cry foul?
You called for me and any other smoker to be found unfit, UNFIT, and now youre a victim?
I'm sorry, I dont play that way, it doesnt work.

Like I said earlier, I appreciate the passion on the position but the method of delivery is terrible.

I'm glad you quit, It's nice that you care, and I'm sorry for your loss.
Yes smoking is bad, you smoked, I still smoke, lots of people smoke, lots of companies are in the business of product manufacture.

The facts are out there.
Looks like we're back to the common sense and choice part of our individual lives again.
Common Sense.
Choice.
Individual.

Here's a good thread title,
People that incite conflict then act surprised at resulting conflict should be found unfit to post...

Come on, this is ridiculous.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


More people die from heart disease than cancer, so lets all band together againts people who let there kids eat fast food its the real kiiler. Lets also attack the diet pop drinkers, the parents who buy plastic toys made with lead paint, which so many have, oh lets not forget the people who drink from plastic bottles lol.

thanks for wasting my time

ill call you a whammmmmmbulance eheheh

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
CAN JUST ONE OF YOU SHOW ME JUST ONE STUDY THAT SHOWS THAT CHILDREN EXPOSED TO CIGARETTE SMOKE ARE AS HEALTHY OR HEALTHIER THAN THEIR PEERS WHO ARE NOT EXPOSED TO CIGARETTE SMOKE????




Instead of attacking me, why don't just one of you geniuses try to dispute the data given in the OP with data of your own... Why don't just one of you take a good look in the mirror and try to convince yourself that your smoking had NO negative effects on your children...

To try to sit there in front of your computer and convince yourselves and others that it has no negative effects on your children is the epitomy of self delusion and the antithesis of 'Denying Ignorance'! PERIOD!

Did you miss my earlier post? Let me refresh your memory:

I smoked heavily when pregnant with my eldest and never had anything worse than a school bug and even thats rare. With my youngest I did it a bit more properly. I didn't quit (docs advice, would have put the feotus under too much stress) but I cut right down and she was born with an extra thumb, heart murmer and spent the first 2-3yrs in and out of a+e on a nebuliser for her breathing. They are BOTH healthy kids now with no problems.

That is my own personal experience. I'm not advocating smoking around kids or even smoking when pregnant. I shared my own personal experience of it which is as good as research to me. A few others have too yet you appear to have missed it....
Start a thread = read ALL the replies...

I agree Great post every parent should read this.

I haven't read the thread and I don't intend to. Smoking is bad. Well, duh....

Anyway - I just wanted to drop by and say - the OP's provocative blame-game is misdirected. Instead of whining and shouting about the parents who smoke (and I agree, parents should never expose their kids to second-hand smoke) - instead, try directing some of that grumbliness against the tobacco companies and governments who have allowed the smoking fiasco to go on for so long.

A complex social issue like smoking can't be solved by a rant on this forum. Neither should parents whose lives are beyond our scope for understanding be lynched in actuality or in spirit, simply for succumbing to one of many major social evils. The immediate deadly effects of tobacco are minimal, and there are ways that smoking parents can avoid causing any harm to their children. Ergo, parents are not 'unfit parents' simply because they are smokers. They are unfit parents if they willfully subject their children to risk.

In this age of enlightenment, all smokers I know smoke away from their children. Their parenting skills and merits are as good, and in some cases better, when compared to the non-smoking parents I know.

I drink, but that doesn't mean I'm unfit to hold a driver's licence. I would only be an unfit to drive if I drank before I got behind the wheel.

Hopefully the analogy is clear.

OP - you've caused considerable fuss, with minimal sense behind what you're saying. A massive for the deliberately provocative topic and page after page of pointless debate you've generated. And for the ten minutes of my life wasted in composing this response.

reply to post by Super Katsurio


There are many substances which can give a false-positive on a drug test.

Eating a poppy-seed muffin for example, will show positive for opium type drugs. Amoxicillin can false positive for Cocaine.

False positives on drug tests

Point is, it doesn't necessarily mean your chewing tobacco contained those drugs. It just means that something in them caused those false positives.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


This is exactly where I am in the debate. We should have the freedom to do whatever we want for and to ourselves. The second that choice negatively affects another, you are taking away their freedom of choice.

Should parents smoke around their kids. No.

Should they smoke at all? It's their choice as long as they aren't "forcing" their kid to inhale the smoke. But to say that the parent should be forced to quit or else have their child taken away is way too much and a mentality I am having a lot of trouble understanding.

My mother was a smoker (she recently quit), and:

1. I couldn't have asked for a better mother or childhood (she raised me on her own as my father died from lung cancer - caused by farming chemicals and exposure to Agent Orange more than his own smoking)

2. I turned out okay. I do have asthma but it isn't active or prominent, plus it was not worsened by any second-hand smoke. Her smoking certainly did not impact any other aspect of my life.

reply to post by dukeofjive

More people die from heart disease than cancer, so lets all band together againts people who let there kids eat fast food its the real kiiler.

That is not such a bad idea. It is the responsibility of the parents to keep the diet of their children reasonably healthy. If they make their child very fat, they should be prosecuted. It is child abuse.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by KAOStheory
reply to post by Maslo

 

So medical science can now distinguish damaged caused by cigarettes vs tailpipes and smokestacks huh? Amazing. Maybe you know a doctor or scientist who can explain how they do that. Haven't you ever noticed (of course ygou haven't) how in the commercials they have to say "my doctor said my lung cancer was PROBABLY caused by 2nd hand smoke" wow probably is quite the scientific term, as in, sitting in her suv on the cell with the engine running PROBABLY didn't help.

And PROBABLY nobody directly inhales engine exhaust (unless, of course, they have plans to meet their maker). Cancer is a complicated animal (hence the emphasis on "probably"). The probability highly favors cigarettes as the cause, as cigarettes posivitively correlate much more strongly than do tailpipes and smokestacks.

HappilyEverAfter

I agree with everything you said. OP = senseless for not anticipating the responses.

A cold bowl of truth doesn't go down well with everyone.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


I can definately agree that smoking can cause serious health problems in children. And yes, parents should mind where they smoke when around children, ie. Not in the car or while near them. But really ? Labelling smokers as unfit parents ? I have been a smoker since I was 16, so about 3.5 years now. I work in a group home of sorts for mentally disabled people, and basically my job is take care of them. My job is very similar to what a stay-at-home father would do, and it isn't uncommon for me to be there for 12 or 24 hours at a time. Should I be fired for incompetence because I smoke ? No. Should anyones children be taken away because the parents smoke ? No. Us smokers just need to give non-smokers respect in their choice to not intake cigarette smoke, and give them some space if they do not want us smoking around them. People have a choice wether they choose to smoke, and you also have a choice as to if you will be near to said smoker. If someones smoking near you bothers you or your child that much, you can always move downwind from them, or ask them to move upwind. problem solved.
On another note, the anti-smoking campaign has gotten quite oversensationalized, imho. We know smoking kills, we know secondhand smoke is bad, we don't need to be preached at like children in sunday school. And whoever came up with the whole 'cigarettes are harder to quit than heroine or coc aine' thing, was either uneducated or flat out lying. Helping a friend quit cigarettes is peanuts compared to an active intervention for drugs, you can trust me on that.

Well there's my rant for the day. And OP please don't feel I'm attacking you or anything, I had my first experience with somebody absolutely BLACKING OUT on me for smoking in the DESIGNATED smoking area outside of a hotel a few days ago (from yelling statistics to hurling insults... Dude was right hammered), and I've been somewhat upset since. This thread just seemed like a good place to vent lol
Peace

He'll yes. No kids for.smokers. or people who drive fast. Or even for the poor who are forced.to.live in areas with poor air quality. I had to be raised by my smoker birth parents who loved me and gave me a sense of belonging somewhere and self worth... but at what cost. I probably wont make it to age 80. Anything short of perfection is a complete waste. We should all.be stripped of everyone and everything in our lives and thrown into labor camps and slave auctions until we have paid off the damage we are bound to do just by being human.

Do you guys actually believe it's possible to save yourselves from dying?

There's a million ways to die and the air is already so polluted. What the difference between a kid breathing in smoke from a cigarette or from exhaust fumes?

Life is funny like that. I've heard lots of stories about guys who were health freaks and one day they get hit by a car or their plane plunges into the ocean. All this hub hub about smoking is silly.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts
"I have since quit, and this has changed my perspective on the issue, as I no longer feel the need to defend my addiction."

Oops. Did you let something slip? From one ex-smoker to another, let me clue you in. It's obvious that you may have quit smoking, but you're still addicted. When I first quit, I was miserable and over compensated with self righteous BS. It looks like you are doing the same. You'll never overcome your own problems as long as you are concerned with other people's business.

reply to post by The Vagabond


That made me lol sorry but that basically sums up what the OP is thinking should be done in a very funny manner to smokers.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


That's exactly my point, there is no reason for these additives-- which are physically addictive in and of themselves-- to be in these products. They're added in order to keep the customers coming back. The rhetoric of mentioning that tobacco is addictive by itself without mentioning that the addictive qualities of tobacco is further exacerbated by the addition of other highly addictive substances. "Here try this cigarette/chew" *Takes tobacco product* *Hahahaha, now you're addicted to coc aine and amphetamines in addition to the tobacco itself!" (Like the Family Guy episode where Peter buys trick gum, then gives it to a guy and exclaims, "Ha ha, now you're addicted to Heroin!") This type of scenario truly saddens me; that corporations exploit so many in their quest for larger profits, not to mention that our governments are complicit in this. The world needs change, and fast!

Originally posted by ffman


2. I turned out okay. I do have asthma but it isn't active or prominent, plus it was not worsened by any second-hand smoke. Her smoking certainly did not impact any other aspect of my life.

And my mom smoked around me and I have no asthma. I am just pointing out how the situation will be different for everyone so to say that smoking WILL do this or that to you is pointless. My grandpa on my dad's side died from emphysema after quitting smoking 10 years before. My dad doesn't smoke. My grandmother, who smoked at least as much as him, died from SKIN cancer and her lungs were reported to be in decent shape. My mom is a smoker. She has asthma. Her asthma became MUCH worse AFTER she quit smoking (repeated hospital visits, began use of a prescription inhaler (she only had to use a store bought inhaler before) and nebulizer, and has even had to have an epideral shot or two because the attack was so severe).

My sister does not smoke. I do (recreationally). Everyone's situation will be the completely different, but one thing that stands certain is that my life would be pretty effed up if someone took me away from my parents because my mom smoked.

reply to post by Byteman


I realize that it's not the tobacco itself, but the additives in the tobacco. The thing is, I started chewing again, and the same results are back, same levels and everything. The false positives weren't generated by eating something, nor was caused by my medicine, because I take no medicine that is even remotely close to having amphetamine or coc aine like effects; plus, I consulted my long time lung doctor about my medication in regards to those results. The results of my drug screen speaks for itself. I had multiple clean tests after quitting chewing, and then I started chewing again and they were back; hardly could be considered a series of incredibly unlikely coincidences.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


True but the complaints leading to bans are those of room-mates and co-workers. No one maybe directly stuck ther face in a tailpipe but maybe worked at an auto factory? Or worked in a smoky bar? Or lived downwind of a smokestack? Or like me, rides their bike to work behind trucks and busses? My point is the people responsible for those pollutants create more toxins in the air in 10 minutes than I have in a lifetime of smoking and to not beven consider them as a cause is infantile. Yknow what its fine tho, I'm still waiting to see those reports of a huge decrease in non-smokers getting lung cancer in smoking-ban cities, so when they come out you'll be right and I'll be wrong. Can't wait.