Secret film shows Iraq prisoners sodomised

I would like to state something we all are not seeing, proof , pictures, the video etc. Ironically enough everyone is so hyped to jump on the propaganda bandwagon to make Americans and our troops look bad. Enough already so what, they had dogs barking and scaring captives to get info out of them and even made them pose nude which was humiliating. What is wrong with all of you. "That is if you are an "American", Have you or anyone of your loved ones ever heard what happened to our POW's in Vietnam, well I did, first hand my father was a POW for 3 1/2 months and was tourtued in ways that would make most of you puke, He lived out the rest of his life in horror with bad flashbacks and could not even love his own kids. Point is what we are doing is no where near barbarrick then some of these 3rd world countries own laws. Go elsewhere and steal well now you loose your hand...etc I know you all get my point, stop reading into all this nonsense, we have values like no others have and if scaring or posing nude is so bad and supposively being sodimised which I really really doubt because the US military is extremely homophobic then what should we serve our captives "tea and crumpets" and just let them sit there and hate us and always want our "The United States" country doomed. There are certain things that have to be done, stop beeing a bunch of cry babies and realise we arent as have as bad as any other country out there, and even know I dont have a political stand, Leave Bush out of this, Just because he is the President he has no control and bashing him just shows your ignorance.

Originally posted by Jonna
If this is true then I just don't know what to say. This has just gotten beyond ridiculous.

I don't think that everyone is jumping on the blaim bandwagon, but with everything that we are aware of already happening, it seems as though such a claim is within the realm of valid possibilities.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith
What do you have to back up the the bush administration didn't order these crimes?

You're asking him to prove a negative. The correct question would be:

What do you have to back up the < allegation that > the bush administration ordered these crimes?
Info in added for clarity.

You know, that pesky little concept of being innocent until proven guilty?
Supposedly there is a "secret tape". Let's see it, please.



[edit on 16-7-2004 by jsobecky]

In all honesty, here is an actual Reality question for you.. What type of stance does the United States military take on homosexuals being in it?


Now with that answered how can you even think something so obtuse like that about our own military.

I understand your point on how everything seems to be going nuts these days but the possibility of a US Marine bending over a captive, I highly doubt that because he would then be fragged himself.

jsobecky, it's kinda hard to find proof about things when GWB's records were so CONVENIENTLY destroyed or locked up in Daddy's Library. Truth seekers don't have the Secret Service, CIA, NSA and DOD working for them, they have them working against them.

I don't want to excessivelly fault the troops, made up of generally young men and women, when the rot comes from the top. The very idea that the Justice department was pushing hard on the envelope of what was legal in the way of torturing prisoners means the whole focus was wrong. Rumsfeld made a request for rights to torture and the Justice dept (Ashcroft) complied.

If you guys LIKE the idea of living in a police state dictatorship, so be it, I don't like it and will work against it at every turn.

Historically dictatorships usually turn to ruin. One person making decisions with out question tends to lead them to believe they are infallible, history inevitably comes around and kicks them in the *ss, to let them know they were wrong.

Collective intelligence based on diseminated information is the best decision making system in the Universe. It is based on Truth.

You do not do your country good by blindly following your leader.

[edit on 16-7-2004 by slank]

I remeber a time not long ago, where a US soldier raped and killed a 13 year old Bosnian girl. The guy had to have extra security guarding him at his cell because his own fellow troops were so disgusted, that they were trying to kill him themselves.

This was back in 96. Not long ago at all. Has morality and troop self policing gone that far down the tubes?

The soldier in Bosnia had to worry about his commerades trying to kill him because they were disgusted beyond belief with his behavior.

Now nwe have soldiers sitting around videotsping sodomy on a male prisoner (homsexuality was still heavily frowned upon when I was in, soldiers were very homphobic). And he need not worry about the wrath of his fellow troops, cuz they are in on it.

What the hell is wrong here? How did we go so far down so fast in only 8 years? What the hell happened?

You Bush haters easily believe whatever horse manure is fed to you. Even if you did believe prisoners were raped by US troops (I do not believe it) you certainly don't think all the troops are like that do you? What planet are you guys on? Have you actually met any US soldiers? If someone says the Grays are backing Bush do we start hating aliens too?

Originally posted by slank
jsobecky, it's kinda hard to find proof about things when GWB's records were so CONVENIENTLY destroyed or locked up in Daddy's Library.

how in the world does this have anything to do with proving these accusations?? sorry, try AGAIN.

If you guys LIKE the idea of living in a police state dictatorship, so be it, I don't like it and will work against it at every turn.

once again, what does this have to do with the topic at hand? and please, oh please show me one actual shred of evidence that we are, or will be, living a police state.

this is the same ol rhetoric spewed everyday by people who blame President Bush for everything. You probably blame him for the bad weather lately as well. Use your COMMON SENSE please!

Originally posted by Trojanex
this is the same ol rhetoric spewed everyday by people who blame President Bush for everything. You probably blame him for the bad weather lately as well. Use your COMMON SENSE please!

Dude! I never realized that he was in control of HAARP!

Dude! I never realized that he was in control of HAARP!

hahahha... some would prob say so!

Originally posted by Variable
You Bush haters easily believe whatever horse manure is fed to you. Even if you did believe prisoners were raped by US troops (I do not believe it) you certainly don't think all the troops are like that do you? What planet are you guys on? Have you actually met any US soldiers? If someone says the Grays are backing Bush do we start hating aliens too?

I'm sorry, but last understood it that when you are control, with all the "pluses" you get, you also get the responsibility......

No-one's jumping on any bandwagon. My own comments were posted very early in this thread :-

Originally posted by Bastet
The filming of such activities [if this is indeed true] is a terrible indictment of brutality.

But I wonder why this abuse, the worst of all, was not mentioned earlier? A

I left room for doubt, as evidenced above. And I believe that all who have posted here are well aware that any soldiers are innocent until proven guilty.

Originally posted by curme
Raping boys. Absolutely amazing. There are still people who think all that happened was some underwear on the head, (snip)

It has been suggested the atrocities were for recruiting Iraqis.
Humiliate them and to prevent disclosure to their relatives they
would provide information to the Occupation about rebel activities.
Another reason was to break the morale of the prisoners. Force them
to reveal incriminating evidence, or provide information about their
accomplices fighting the Occupation, again to prevent the details of
their humiliation from being revealed to the world. (Didn't quite
work out that way, did it?)

Of course any child knows the only lasting effect of these atrocities
will be total hatred of their abusers, by the abused. Given the
nature of their culture also by every Iraq citizen.
The administration of our government will need protection against
assassins not just for themselves but every member of their family
and relatives, for this generation and extending into the indefinite
future. Eventually they will feel safe from their enemies, their
bodyguards will be released from service, and then their enemies will
strike. One by one. As many years as it takes. Listen to the Iraq
national anthem sometime. Study the culture, and the history of these
people and their country. This is a new kind of war. Individuals will
be targeted. The individuals of the US government involved in making
the policy and implementing the war on Iraq have no idea what they
really started. Iraqis WILL hold them personally accountable.






[edit on 16-7-2004 by mockan]

[edit on 16-7-2004 by mockan]

Guess what. I heard a rumor that John Kerry raped John Edwards right after he got out of Nam. He promised him the VP-ship later on in life. The CIA was in on it; they actually did the 8MM taping. There's a secret tape out there somewhere, being guarded by the blind followers of dissension. It will be brought out into public view if GWB steals the election again. John Kerry, BTW, was the real captain of the Achille Lauro on it's fateful journey.

Of course, I have no proof of this, it is only rumor. But I want you to prove that it is not true, and accept it as truth. And in the mean time, I will condemn the democrats and pre-judge them.

Sound ridiculous? Well, that's exactly what we have here, folks. Jumping all over Bush and the military because of an unfounded rumor.

:shk:

Guardian

Another article on the rapes.

jsobecky, you went over the top in that post IMO. It's all very well to support the present Administration, but IMO [again], the scenario that you have presented is rather demeaning to you.

And thanks for that link, curme.

Originally posted by Bastet
jsobecky, you went over the top in that post IMO. It's all very well to support the present Administration, but IMO [again], the scenario that you have presented is rather demeaning to you.

Thanks for the feedback, Bastet. But it really isn't about supporting an administration as much as it is about pointing out how people are ready to jump on the bandwagon and criticize and deliver judgement without any more proof than a rumor.

I must remember, though, that sarcasm and hyperbole are often lost on many ears.

I'm trying to accept your explanation, jsobecky, but I'm finding it difficult. I may have been the first in this thread to raise a question of doubt, but I certainly was not the last. If you read this topic thoroughly, you'll see what I mean.

The sexual abuse of young people creates a natural emotive reaction of outrage. And curme's link, you must admit, could be even more damning. But we all realise that these allegations must be proven. I'm absolutely sure that everyone here, whether Bush supporters or not, does not wish to think that American soldiers are capable of such crimes.

Edit - typo

[edit on 17/7/04 by Bastet]

Wow, sounds to me like most here have already seen the video.

Wise up folks, until the alleged footage is either released or leaked, this is just another propaganda attempt with no proof to back its assertions.

Save your vehemence for a proven event, rather than venting on something someone who has a stake in making the US look bad has claimed. If proven, your hatred of those who perpetrated these alleged acts will be vindicated, as well as seconded by myself. There is no call for acts such as this in any war. However, it is equally likely that this will end up as no more than 'sound and fury signifying nothing'.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith
What do you have to back up the the bush administration didn't order these crimes? I have a 50 page classified memo directly from Rumsfield himself stating that they can torture prisoners, the memo was leaked to the washington post and put on-line.....

if you know the url for this memo, can you post it please? thank you.






[edit on 7/18/2004 by randomviolins]