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Is Above Top Secret a Public Debunking Website for the Government?

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posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by InertiaZero
 


I know what you mean, we all have topics we feel very passionate about. It is very easy to get caught in the heat of the moment and say some not so nice things sometimes to people who disagree. I have worked on my internet etiquette and don't get involved in all the drama as much.




posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by InertiaZero
reply to post by mblahnikluver
 


I somehow skipped over this post!!

How am I a jerk??!!





That is what I saw and had to reply. Don't listen to the OP you are not a jerk! I had to read that a couple times lol



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by 9Cib27
 


after some users "debunked my a... " and warned me I WILL PE WARNED & S...
I don't know what to believe...



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by 9Cib27
 


That's the way it is. The name of the game is control of ideas. This is what cass sunstein is all about. He recognizes ideas he does not like, and destroys them. Naturally, he frames his thirst for central power as being for the 'good' of society. He keeps a low profile. I recognized his pitch as soon as obama installed cass in place. His thing is to pluck harmful memes, replacing them with ones he deems useful. Scary stuff. There's the clear intent, right there. Yeah, doubtful you'll know you're arguing with a software AI.

Haven't you heard it's a war of words...?



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Aggie Man
 


You never know around here you have to treat this site like any other dont say something if your not ready to deal with the consequences



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Lets get real...

It is a business that serves (us the users) a forum for alternative discussion...

Thats the basic of this website.

Alternative topics (like ufo's) have people that like to pull jokes and hoaxes..

No one deserves to be fooled by snake oil salesman..
Or be subjected to them for that matter.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by 9Cib27
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 


you're clearly very narrow with your view. assuming the government would need to somehow be owners of the website.



This is a part of problem, though. Someone raises a point you disagree with, you then label them a government disinfo. agent, purely because you disagree with them (apologies if that was a tongue in cheek comment, but it didn't appear to be). You go on to tell him off for jumping to conclusions, yet you have just done the exact same in your previous comment. If you really see it as a believers vs sceptics war, this is a part of what weakens the case for so called believers- quick to dismiss those who disagree with them, condemning the tactics they use, whilst using those same tactics themselves.

Also, your comment about sceptics outnumbering believers 10:1 is totally unfounded. There is no statistical evidence for this whatsoever, and I'd be willing to bet that the figures are much more even than that.

Another problem is that there are those who seem to want to see something unusual, in the most mundane of material. I am lucky enough to have had a personal experience myself, in relation to UFOs, and I have to say, if it weren't for that, I probably would not be a believer in the topic of UFOs, after reading the material on this site for just a few months. The attitude of some believers is pretty ridiculous, using no facts and very, very dubious material to back up their beliefs, no questions asked.

I agree with you that the tactics employed by some so called de-bunkers on this site are regularly OTT, as they often seek to belittle those on the opposite side of the fence, which isn't really needed. However, I have experienced the opposite myself here, as well. There was a thread, not long ago, about Swedish twins, who were touted as 100% alien hybrids, purely because of some extraordinary events that surrounded them. I attempted to point out, along with many others, that though the case was no doubt exceptional, it was not 100% proof of anything. In return, a select few believers jumped on me, informing me I was stupid, gullible, and basically needed my eye sight testing. It works both ways.

Honestly, though, attacking the viewpoint of anyone who disagrees with you only serves to damage the credibility of your words, and topics in general, which you stand by. I consider myself neither a pure sceptic, nor a pure believer, hence my name- but one thing is for sure, a few believers could take a note out the so called "de-bunkers" book, and try researching their claims more thoroughly, instead of taking everything at face value (which seems a slightly ironic statement to make about those who consider themselves to be conspiracy theorists).
edit on 20-2-2011 by ScepticalBeliever because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by InertiaZero
reply to post by mblahnikluver
 


I somehow skipped over this post!!

How am I a jerk??!!





Well, mine was pretty creative... Apparently I am a government psy-ops robot..... News to me!


Who knew robots had a pulse? Wouldn't think they could catch Strep Throat from their Niece either.... Hmm... Learn something knew every day....

It's funny. The OP comes on looking for dis-info agents, yet they are the only one spreading any kind of dis-info in this thread and refuses to accept the TRUTH... Yet WE are closed minded? Who is the one refusing to consider other possibilities? *looks at the OP*

This is just a website... People come here and post their thoughts on anything from Movies, to Aliens... If you think you are special enough that the government cares whether you believe in Aliens or that they want to know what you think of the movie Casablanca, you are mistaken...

Simple as that... Am I a robot? No. Do I work for the government? No... Hell, it would probably pay better than what I make now though. Any government disinfo agents looking to hire?
( That's a joke OP!)

Well, off I go. Take care friends.




edit on 20-2-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by mblahnikluver

Originally posted by InertiaZero
reply to post by mblahnikluver
 


I somehow skipped over this post!!

How am I a jerk??!!





That is what I saw and had to reply. Don't listen to the OP you are not a jerk! I had to read that a couple times lol


I have manners straight out of a Finishing School!!
Hrrmmph!

I was trying to provide some different viewpoints as to why it may seem that way, based on my own thoughts.

I couldve out right said : "dont be silly, the government is too busy top pay attention to you. The mods usually are too. Take the tinfoil hat off."
But no, instead...I provided optional possibilities.

I honestly believe that the majority of members are so skeptical that they may think their own mothers are disinfo agents.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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There are a few different groups that troll ATS to spread disinformation and propaganda. JIDF and Megaphone are two examples that have been discussed on here multiple times. I will provide a few links to some of the threads. If you are not aware of Megaphone or JIDF you should really look into it. It is quite pathetic what they do.

abovetopsecret.com

abovetopsecret.com

abovetopsecret.com



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 


If you are a robot, I just would like to extend a hand, and tell you that there is tolerance for your kind these days...you can even play Jeopardy on tv if you want.
I dont know if robots need hugs....

In all seriousness, you being a former mod.....how does the coordinates he/she posted in this thread and the other violate the T and C? Just curious.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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Sorry everyone I did use namecalling that was silly.

There are no disinformation agents or government officials that I know of

The information i tried to post was off topic and this thread is properly debunked



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 04:05 PM
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There is no way that anyone can listen to the show and think these guys are govt agents... LOL! On their FREE radio show for the members here they approach topics and dont even agree with eachother... you get a good rounded discussion. As far as the boards.. there are plenty of govt and mil here.. duh.

As far as disinfo.. they dont need to pay anyone to spread disinfo.. folks do it here for free. LIke a bunch of name calling bickering children. IMO when I see someone in thread after thread or making threads shouting disinfo or govt agent any and each time they are disagreed with.. I start wondering about that person themselves.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by Aggie Man
 




That's a mighty impressive list.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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If this is indeed true, (sure there are some shills implanted here and there to try and engineer opinions),

The ones coming to ATS that arouse suspicion are most likely people on the bottom of the food chain, ones that have not researched what they are supposed to be debunking, some college, but very poor intuition and a limited repertoir of debunking skills, if any..

There is one I know who is an actual known public figure for a large government agency that uses this site often and does debunk things, but also falls very short often times, because people have surpassed the old paradigms from decades past, that these types are still trying to use today...

For example, debunking interstellar travel based on human chemical propulsion rocketry.. You still see this rigorously espoused in the msm to this day..

I think a lot of ATS people, (maybe even a majority), see right through these tactics on a daily basis, but even so, other tactics are still effective, like ridicule and character assasination when a debunker lacks the intelligence to scientifically debunk a subject...

People have been successfully conditioned over the decades of abuse to ride along with many of these non scientific methods of information doctoring manipulation tactics even when they often times don't immediately notice it, almost subliminal..

I see the curtain falling a little bit at a time, however.. Will see what happens in time.....


Cheers.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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Op, do not fear.
Things will happen that will make the keeping of all secrets obsolete, I can guarantee that, when we no longer toil within the living all is rendered irrelevant.

ATS suffers from some issues that make it in its present state something else entirely from what it started out to be, I lurked the site for several years, and have only joined recently as an "active member", and have seen the ins and outs of many wonderful interesting people that have made me wonder my reality and the universe as a whole, but still, in the shadows, from time ti time, the darkness grabs a hold and pulls with everything its got.

The "debunking squad" has always been the same, there are a few who are educated and know what they are doing, but some, the endless horde of pattern zombies that tries to steer reality into a well defined clean, esoteric free world, they , are the same as the "tin foil hat crowd", who take without digesting, both groups do not understand that all of our beliefs are just temporary, and that context and perspective end up making and calling our judgments.

The system, this reality tunnel is only a matter of appreciation, everything else is uncertain, no one can say for certain how some patterns might react under certain stimuli, one can try to predict the outcome, but as the saying goes, the exception defines the rule...
We believe reality to be a continuous flow, when waves and falls are the norm, we just have convinced ourselves to believe that what we hold dear to our heart is true, because in reality we have nothing, we should rather live the moment, and try to destroy this dark and evil conspiracy of collective suicide in which we have been hurled without our permission, FROM THE INSIDE, we are the light and the darkness, we can make them go away.

cheers!



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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WOW! That is some deep stuff...



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by 9Cib27
As the most active conspiracy website on the internet, with the most relevant members and most compelling gathering of evidence and men in the "privy ". I would propose that it is obviously the most infiltrated by Government intelligence.


Let us not forget, also the MOST infiltrated by trolls, young kids playing games, liars,hoaxers and the insane.

Things far more prevalent and extremely more obvious around here. But that is the price a site pays for being so successful and well stocked with great content. Isn't it?



I am saying are they debunking TOO much, do they call TOO many hoaxes?


I am saying- If this site had less debunkers and less rational thinking, it would be a misfortune. There are far too many sites online that cater to liars and misinformation. ATS IS FIRSTLY a site to DENY IGNORANCE. It is not an info hub for liars and hoaxers to spread their latest creations, nor is it a place for crazy people to run amok unchallenged by logic and scrutiny.

If you want a place that supports and promotes lies and loons without question, I can suggest a handful off the top of my head. Of course, those places are the main reason someone like me decided to come here instead.



It's almost obvious.


Is it now? It should be even more obvious that this thread is just a reopening of dozens of other threads that were this same subject and point. We see this thread posted (under other titles) about three or four times a month for years and years now.



The number of skeptics the evidence presenters on this website is easily 10-1.With recent articles mentioning software that would allow 1 government agent to control many online identities to corroborate and collaborate stories and debunks.


Our staff is very good at locating and removing people who abuse the system by making multiple accounts. Sadly, it is always trolls, liars, hoaxers and trouble makers who seem to use the system in that way.

I wonder how many times the moderators have had to remove accounts being used dishonestly and with an agenda...and I wonder how many times those accounts have been attached to liars and trolls vs Military Agents?

10-1? More like 1000-0.



This is poisonous to idea formation because we will never be on the right trail to anything! Even if someone were right!


Seeing as you are wrong here...we can rest a little easier. But, a poisonous factor still exists here. Lucky for everyone involved, the majority of the poison is in the form of hooligans, liars and scam artists...not secret spies sent by the shadow government.



With the latest uprising in the member community of ATS's [HOAX] forum being hypocritical and the agreement that there are too many members simply calling a debunk without any proper form of support, that it flood threads and other threads are used to drown important threads to the bottom of piles.


Lets get this straight. The recent FLOOD of people calling the "hoax forum" hypocritical or broken, the majority (not all) of those members were all new and joined within the same week as the UFO over Jerusalem event. Most even joined "just to post in that thread" and posted nowhere else.

And most of those accounts have been removed and banned. I wonder why?

You think it was because the government was working on the case?



There is even humorist within the ATS community that jokingly refer to low quality UFO footage as: chinese lanterns, swamp gas, night time skydivers, ect ect. As humor is the only weapon versus the barrage of BS you must sort through on one legitimate thread.


The BS anyone has to sort through, is usually (again) in the form of trolls, hoaxers and juveniles misusing ATS.
The jokes you refer to are funny retorts from our members. There is a huge difference in a joke and a jerk, even if some folks have a hard time recognizing the difference.



Sometimes the debunkers are so good they will have you questioning some pretty astounding CGI. It makes you wander though who these anonymous ATS users are with their college degrees in CGI BSing.


Your slandering of Debunkers is on the edge of racism...if debunkers were a race.

It is clearly obvious you would rather be reading on a forum where just anyone was allowed to post the most ridiculous of quackish ideas and then go unchallenged by any rational thoughts.

Again, there are many other sites that cater to that need...are you so sure that ATS is "your brand" of a news site?



And also who is this group of people that sit around crafting elaborate UFO and alien footage, and what program are they using?


The programs you are questioning are in the hands of children these days. Many of us have grown up using these programs and now have children too young to go to the mall alone, but still intelligent enough to be tooling around on AfterEffects, Photoshop, GIMP, ProTools, etc.



Reference to high ranking military men with long standing careers is the most frustrating on the ATS forums. If a man whose entire career has been within the Government and has the knowledge to form an intelligent opinion on something, then why is every single one explain with the following: misunderstanding or misinterpretation, lying, New World Order, wheres the evidence?, ect ect


I don't even get what you are asking here. If you are questioning why our military members question "lies and hoaxes" or just asks for proof on subjects littered with disinformation...perhaps it is because they joined ATS to deny ignorance instead of joining to embrace foolery?

Needless to say- this thread is made time and time again by new members time and time again. Perhaps you should enjoy ATS a little longer before you go around bashing our skeptics and debunkers (two types ATS welcomes) and learn how the site operates.

Perhaps you should go and research the countless times lies and hoaxes have fell to our debunkers and skeptics alike after those types joined forces to locate and display the "real truth" in the face of organized scammery and intended disruption.

Just my thoughts.

MM


edit on 20-2-2011 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by Violater1
Apparently, John Lear thought so. That is why he left ATS years ago and never came back.

That's incorrect. Anyone telling you differently does not have the facts.

John Lear was post-banned for fabricating inflammatory comments supposedly made by another member. It was proven the other member never said any such thing, we offered to lift Mr. Lear's posting ban if he apologized. He didn't, so he still cannot post here.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 06:56 PM
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The answer is you never really know. Pressure could be applied to the folks running the website in a variety of ways. I won't go into any of them since we are on ATS and reading some of the posts here you guys/gals can imagine for youself. IMHO at this time they are not run by the gov't, but having had the scrutiny of the public from the guy shooting the congress woman posting rants here they may have started trying to ensure the website is scrubbed. Every new venture goes through different phases and ATS, it appears getting into it's next phase of maybe quasi political correctness...this is just my opinion...



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