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Retired USAF pilot Col. Guy S. Razer says 9/11 was 'inside job' perpetrated by US government

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posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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I read the first several pages of this thread and noticed no one gave a link regarding the research of Steven Jones.
I know some members here may try to discredit him. Though I can't vouch for Steven Jones myself (never met him) you can check his credentials yourself by searching his name on this website, and take his research for what you will.

There are shorter videos with Dr. Jones going over his research regarding 911.
According to Jones, fire wasn't a likely cause to bring any of the buildings down (3 total) as they were designed with heat tolerant steel.
www.youtube.com...




posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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damn...i'm running out of popcorn!

either way i await to see the outcome of this guy. i'm gonna keep my eye out on Col. Razer.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Nonchalant
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Good stuff. Though I think old mother hubbard and my cat are the only living creatures on earth that still believe the official story of 9/11. And thats exactly what it is - a 'story' because theres certainly nothing to back up and PLENTY to prove its a lie.

The 9-11 topic has polarized what it means to be a "debunker" and a "believer." The "debunkers" in this topic are what are widely known as the "conspiracy theorists." They are *debunking* the OS (official story). The "believers" are those who have accepted the OS, even when presented with scientific fact and enough circumstantial evidence to raise eyebrows. Yet they choose to BELIEVE the official story. My post on the previous page goes into more detail.

I suppose that it is tough to become aware that the government you THOUGHT was looking out for you is really not at all what all of us were taught in school, especially now that it has been (itself) hijacked by the wealthy, the corporate, the elite and the greedy of this world.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by samkent


When are they going to get real hard facts of a conspiracy? Youtube doesn't count.


Can you honestly say that the OS is fact?


I am one of those ppl that are in the middle. On one hand I would like to believe that the US gov't would not allow its citizens to be murdered in order to advance any kind of agenda.

On the other hand, I wonder how far ppl in our gov't would go to get something they really want? If there was a conspiracy, it really wouldn't have taken a lot of ppl in the know to get it done. There would have to be ppl who were just taking orders not knowing what would happen.

I still can not get over how in a post 9/11 America, the gov't had us practically begging for them to take away rights in order to feel protected. That is one huge matzo ball. I'm not drinking the OS flavored Kool Aid. I'm not sold on the conspiracy either. I just try to keep an open mind and weigh the arguments both sides have to offer.





edit on 21-2-2011 by kismet815 because: word out of place



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by GhostLancer
Some things to consider about 9-11...



4. 2.3 trillion dollars of military funding was unaccounted for, according to SECDEF Donald Rumsfeld in a September 10th, 2001 press conference/statement, televised. The people and the databases and the physical files were located *precisely* where the Pentagon impact occurred.



You posted this claim before and it is utter made up bunk. I proved it to you by posting a link to a Dept of Defence financial paper from March 2002. But in true "truther" tradition why let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy ?

This is the paper :-

www.dodig.mil...

If you scroll down to the Executive Summary it says this . " The Army did not publish stand-alone financial statements for FY 2001 due to the loss of financial management personnel sustained during the Sept 11 terrorist attack. Therefore we did not audit financial information for FY 2001 financial statements. However, Army financial statement information was included in the DoD FY 2001 Agency-Wide Financial Statements."

So, absolutely nothing to do with tracing trillions from years past and everything to do with auditing Army financial staements for FY 2001 and the information was, in any event, included in the Agency-Wide Statements.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by RustyShakleford92
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Good find. Thanks for the read.
...

What is the significance of complicating the situation and trying to make the buildings fall? The government could care less about public support, if indeed, a terrorist organization just pummeled a plane into the Pentagon alone.

...



Those are good questions. I like to take things one step at a time. First, did they fall from planes hitting them? My conclusion is "no". They turned literally to dust. There was molten steel still burning, weeks after the fact. Steel beams had been diagonally cut almost with surgical precision. They fell at nearly a free-fall speed. That is impossible. Period. It defies the laws of physics. History has also shown us that burning, steel buildings do NOT collapse. It has never happened.

Next, why? I have a number of theories. My first is, there was evidence in building 7 that needed to be destroyed. Do your own research on the occupants of building 7. They had to make certain that building came down and was destroyed. But, by itself, it's a tricky proposition. How to destroy it and make it look like a terrorist attack? Wouldn't terrorists go for the tallest buildings first, rather than the shortest one? Of course. So, hitting the twin towers was nothing more than a distraction from building 7. I believe the trillion plus dollars that were "lost" by the Pentagon was getting ready to blow up in somebody's face. Perhaps some of the big firms in the WTC had their fingers in it somehow and there were whistle-blowers ready to blow the whistle. Because we as Americans are so ignorant and complacent, not another word was said about that "loss". Nothing. There was the news conference with Donald Rumsfeld then it was basically squelched. That is an enormous amount of money! Even for a government, it is a HUGE amount of money. Remember people, they didn't lose their money, they lost our money! Our government misplaced a trillion and a half dollars! In any sane society, that in itself should create an uprising unsurpassed in human history. That amount of money being lost should have riots in the streets in every city in America. But it was swept under the carpet after 9/11 and we never heard another word about it.

My other theory is that the entire WTC complex was hemorrhaging millions or billions of dollars per year and had become a major liability, for numerous reasons. However, they couldn't afford to just demolish them, so they had a shill insure them first, (Larry Silverstein), and then they are out nothing. For a few million dollars, Larry Boy got a payout in the billions. If you think he put that money in his own pocket, you are delusional. Hundreds if not thousands of people lined their pockets with that insurance payout. How many insurance companies have billions of dollars in "cash on hand" to pay out for a claim that large? I would be really curious to know who the insurance company was.

Remember folks, it always leads back to the money. Follow the money and you'll find the reason and motive.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by Alfie1
 


If it is utter made up bunk, then it the utter bunk was made up by Secretary Donald Rumsfeld himself being as he is the one who said this:

Transcript of his speech on 9/10/01


Our financial systems are decades old. According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible.


Here is an article that goes into more detail on three sentences:

The War On Waste


"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted.

$2.3 trillion — that's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in America. To understand how the Pentagon can lose track of trillions, consider the case of one military accountant who tried to find out what happened to a mere $300 million.

"We know it's gone. But we don't know what they spent it on," said Jim Minnery, Defense Finance and Accounting Service. Minnery, a former Marine turned whistle-blower, is risking his job by speaking out for the first time about the millions he noticed were missing from one defense agency's balance sheets. Minnery tried to follow the money trail, even crisscrossing the country looking for records.

"The director looked at me and said 'Why do you care about this stuff?' It took me aback, you know? My supervisor asking me why I care about doing a good job," said Minnery.

He was reassigned and says officials then covered up the problem by just writing it off. "They have to cover it up," he said. "That's where the corruption comes in. They have to cover up the fact that they can't do the job."

The Pentagon's Inspector General "partially substantiated" several of Minnery's allegations but could not prove officials tried "to manipulate the financial statements."



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by nunya13
 


You have misread the post. What is utter bunk is the statement routinely made by truthers that the plane impact area of the Pentagon was where everyone was busy beavering away at the unaccounted for trillions and all the records were held.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by Alfie1
 


You're right I did misread your post. I'm sorry. I thought you were saying the claim about the missing trillions is made up. Forgive me?



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by Alfie1
 


Wow , you sure have blown a hole in the "unofficial story" Alfie...congrats on that.

Now we can all stand corrected and believe your fairy tales instead !

Of course you do not care that there are missing trillions, or hundreds and even thousands of lies perpetrated that you do not post about ( I guess cause none exist) ?

I feel like i am in church when i read believers such as yourself...you got a lot of "Blind Faith".
edit on 21-2-2011 by GrinchNoMore because: (no reason given)[/editby
edit on 21-2-2011 by GrinchNoMore because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by General.Lee
 



Those are good questions. I like to take things one step at a time.

Well, the first thing is WHY? Why the Rube Goldberg conspiracy? Pretext for war in Middle East? Pretty complex stagecraft just to convince a Republican contolled Congress to authorize a Republican President.

First, did they fall from planes hitting them? My conclusion is "no".

And you would be, inadvertently, correct. The impact of the planes was just the first and most serious event in a series of events that eventually lead to the collpase of the buildings.

They turned literally to dust.

No, they literally didn't. And billions of people watched for months as crews manipulated huge piles of "dust". I'd just give up on that angle, it sounds kind of silly.

There was molten steel still burning, weeks after the fact.

No, there just plain wasn't.

Steel beams had been diagonally cut almost with surgical precision.

I saw the cuts, first hand, on-site. Nice, but not surgical. If you think that is "surgical" then I hope you're not an MD. Typical demolition torch cut.

They fell at nearly a free-fall speed.

There is no such thing as free-fall speed.

That is impossible. Period. It defies the laws of physics.

No it didn't and no it doesn't.

History has also shown us that burning, steel buildings do NOT collapse. It has never happened.

History has also shown us that our sun has never super-novaed, does that mean its never going to happen? I've never died, ergo, that must mean I will live forever!

Next, why? I have a number of theories. My first is, there was evidence in building 7 that needed to be destroyed.

Really? What did they do - write it on the walls?

Do your own research on the occupants of building 7. They had to make certain that building came down and was destroyed. But, by itself, it's a tricky proposition. How to destroy it and make it look like a terrorist attack? Wouldn't terrorists go for the tallest buildings first, rather than the shortest one? Of course. So, hitting the twin towers was nothing more than a distraction from building 7. I believe the trillion plus dollars that were "lost" by the Pentagon was getting ready to blow up in somebody's face.

Really? So the people who absconded with trillions of dollars first announce their crime and then commit another crime to cover it up.

Perhaps some of the big firms in the WTC had their fingers in it somehow and there were whistle-blowers ready to blow the whistle. Because we as Americans are so ignorant and complacent, not another word was said about that "loss". Nothing. There was the news conference with Donald Rumsfeld then it was basically squelched. That is an enormous amount of money! Even for a government, it is a HUGE amount of money. Remember people, they didn't lose their money, they lost our money! Our government misplaced a trillion and a half dollars! In any sane society, that in itself should create an uprising unsurpassed in human history. That amount of money being lost should have riots in the streets in every city in America. But it was swept under the carpet after 9/11 and we never heard another word about it.

Exactly how do you think information is stored in the modern world? Clay tablets?

My other theory is that the entire WTC complex was hemorrhaging millions or billions of dollars per year and had become a major liability, for numerous reasons. However, they couldn't afford to just demolish them, so they had a shill insure them first, (Larry Silverstein), and then they are out nothing. For a few million dollars, Larry Boy got a payout in the billions. If you think he put that money in his own pocket, you are delusional. Hundreds if not thousands of people lined their pockets with that insurance payout. How many insurance companies have billions of dollars in "cash on hand" to pay out for a claim that large? I would be really curious to know who the insurance company was.

You would be curious to know who the insurance company was? Its been all over the news for years, you just posted a paragraph speculation about the final disposition of the settlement and yet you have no idea who the insurers were?

Remember folks, it always leads back to the money. Follow the money and you'll find the reason and motive

Thats right folks always, just ask Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, the Green River killer, the Hillside strangler, the BTK killer, they were all in it for the big bucks.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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Get ready baby, the main show is coming!
Down with fed reserve and their illegal money print.
Down with two party system.
Down with false flags causing wars for USA.
Down with overpopulation and depopulation.
Down with electoral college.
Down with monopoly media empires run by foreign agents.
Down with extraterrestrial censorship.

Up RON PAUL.UP Dennis Kucinich. If he is an agent then they deserve to win.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by GrinchNoMore
 


You really should do some more research. There isnt (and never has been) 2.3 trillion dollars missing from anywhere. There HAS been 2.3 trillion in accounting adjustments in the Pentagon "ledgers" that did not have enough documentation according to GAO auditors. But, they resolved that issue in early 2003.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by GoldenFleece
 

You see what you did there??

Just repeating, again, the same crap that any actual pilot (who isn't trying to support the so-called "truth" movement, and their groups....in order to profit off of "conspiracy" believers' gullibility) will tell you is baloney.

And, you believe that hogwash without any logical examination or question???

Sorry Captain Weed, but you're not exactly known as an unbiased party. I'm going with the National Air Traffic Controllers Association on this one. I think they would know what a "military maneuver" looks like, especially since we now know that 330 degree steep spiraling descent was most likely performed by a missile.


Originally posted by weedwhacker
ALL of this "truther" nonsense is terribly irrational....and is obviously so, when you take time to look, very honestly and logically at it, absent the emotional desire to "believe" (first) in the "evil" government. Which, I hasten to point out, WAS evil on different levels (I.E. Dick Cheney, etc) but in terms of being able to have "pulled this off"??? One word to dispel that myth: "KATRINA"

Oh, I've taken the time to look at it honestly and logically all right. Not sure how anyone could think it's possible to arrive at such a horrific conclusion about their own government without doing enough research to be absolutely certain.

Thank you for finally acknowledging the evilness of Darth Cheney, etc. Reminds me of a quote from ANOTHER retired USAF pilot, Lt. Col. Robert Bowman, PhD:

"Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it’s highly placed individuals in the administration, with all roads passing through Dick Cheney."



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


As usual, you dont relay the whole story....either that or have never bothered to look for it...

This is normally how the issue is relayed....

"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," O'Brien said.

And why did they think it was a military plane?

"You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe."

Seems a bit different when you have the whole quote.....

www.papillonsartpalace.com...



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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Cheney's Halliburton Ties
www.cbsnews.com...

On 10/11/2005, it was reported that the shares that Dick Cheney claimed he no longer had with Halliburton, rose 3281% in one year.

From the Presidential Emergency Operations Center (PEOC), Dick Cheney allegedly monitored Flight 77 from 50 miles outside of Washington D.C.
edition.cnn.com...


after 911 both Bush and Cheney tried to “limit the scope” of the Joint Congressional Inquiry
archives.cnn.com...

Dick Cheney and George Bush refused to testify under oath before select individuals of the 9/11 Commission even though the families wanted them to. They testified together, not in public, and no recordings were allowed. The families requested the transcripts of their meeting, but were denied.


Dick Cheney loves Obama policies



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by RustyShakleford92
 


I heard supposively they needed to take the buildings down in a satanic ritual they all had to fall not saying i believe it but i shot it out there



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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If this man who worked on some of the most advanced aircraft built for the military for years, with a rap sheet of high clearance to the government makes a statement in 2007 stating that we show the highest level of treason to the people of the united states by 911 being an "inside job" with our own government. Covering up the attacks and blaming terrorists always seemed like an expected alternative to hide the inside job to me anyway funding the war on terror...the perpetrators are among us.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by General.Lee
Hundreds if not thousands of people lined their pockets with that insurance payout. How many insurance companies have billions of dollars in "cash on hand" to pay out for a claim that large? I would be really curious to know who the insurance company was.

Remember folks, it always leads back to the money. Follow the money and you'll find the reason and motive.


Are you familiar with reinsurance? I guess not.

I've had Truthers tell me that the insurance companies were in on it, which is why they paid out. Which to me seems a bit like a bookmaker knowing a racehorse is set up to win but still paying out on it.

But I'm fascinated by your take on events, and by the notion of 9/11 as an insurance fraud more generally. Are we to assume that th elites are never those behind insurance companies? That the billionaires behind them - and the big shareholders who presumably pull the strings when financing arms and oil - just leave insurance completely alone? There are boradrooms full of Ivy League scumbags at AON and AIG, but they just happen to be the ones who lose out while the other rich NWO guys laugh all the way to the bank at their expense?

I'd like to know more.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by vipertech0596
 

I posted the entire quote here, but Captain Weed is once again trying to defend the ridiculous premise that Hani Hanjour -- who was unable to rent a Cessna 172 the month before 9/11 because according to check ride pilots, "he could not fly at all" -- could actually perform such a maneuver in a 757.

In reality, Hani Hanjour wasn't even on that "plane", unless he was stuffed into the nose cone of the missile that hit the Pentagon.


edit on 2/21/2011 by GoldenFleece because: corrected quote



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