Retired USAF pilot Col. Guy S. Razer says 9/11 was 'inside job' perpetrated by US government

reply to post by Res Ipsa


Well said Res Ipsa

What is wrong with having a new investigation? The OS has been shown to be false but the govt. refuses to open up a new investigation. A lot of threads here get bogged down in discussing various theories, the pros and cons of said theories, etc. without people realizing that it's not a question of whether their pet theory is correct; it's a question of pushing our govt. into a new investigation and finally figuring out what happened.

The references between 9/11 and Pearl Harbor are many in this forum. But one big difference is that P.H. had 2 investigations in a 4 year span while it has now been almost 10 years for 9/11 and we are still stuck with the same BS OS.

Originally posted by RustyShakleford92
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

Good find. Thanks for the read.

Can I ask a question though. The thing I don't understand about this demolition conspiracy theory is.... why is it so important to make the buildings fall? I mean, 4 hijacked planes, people killed.... HELL one plane to the Pentagon is enough to start a war.

What is the significance of complicating the situation and trying to make the buildings fall? The government could care less about public support, if indeed, a terrorist organization just pummeled a plane into the Pentagon alone.

There is always someone "proving" the fact that the buildings could have fell, and then someone right next to him able to "prove" that it is impossible under the set circumstances.

The perps got a lot of bang for their buck and bucks for their bang. Pardon the expression. You've got to read more on the subject. The owner of the towers wanted them demolished and they were newly insured. The city would never have let him take them down. The buildings were small potatoes for sure within the larger context but far be it from criminals to leave money on the table. The perps wanted destruction and chaos but just enough and so they fell largely into their own footprints.

You can find reasons galore. The cover as you know is that the thought of the home team perpetrating this is beyond the comprehension of most. How could people live with themselves having gone to war, past or present, for a farce? Thus people will bend over backwards to prove the official story. To allow any other thought would blow their minds. How could they live with themselves? They've grown up brainwashed that the system was built by others like them for them.

4 planes, more chaos, harder to prove. Attacks both physically and intellectually on multiple fronts. It's a tactic of war.

reply to post by RustyShakleford92


"The thing I don't understand about this demolition conspiracy theory is.... why is it so important to make the buildings fall? I mean, 4 hijacked planes, people killed.... HELL one plane to the Pentagon is enough to start a war.

What is the significance of complicating the situation and trying to make the buildings fall? The government could care less about public support, if indeed, a terrorist organization just pummeled a plane into the Pentagon alone."

Hallo friend,
I am german, so my english is not so perfect. My Answer: There are many, many more criminal things, wich the papal knights of the VATICAN / S.M.O.M. have cleared with this 4 building collapses. 1. In WTC 7 was FBI and SEC hosting criminal material against bankster-enemies of the state and the people. 2. In the underground of WTC 1 & 2 was GOLD worth hundreds of billion dollar... already lost... 3. Larry Silverstein (owner) gets from insurance billions of dollar... 4. The big hijackers take the complete GOLD and money of the bank of state of Irak
additional to all the old, ancient items of the original source of mankind from the museums wich you could not can double at any time... 5. For the VATICAN was point 4 absolut important, because the roman catholic church is not a christian but a anti-christian organisation and is absolut at the top at the 666-pyramide under the all seeing eye of lucifer... They are bible-christian-haters and murderers of hundreds of millions of innocent people all over the world. They will destroy all sources of the correct origin of mankind, because they get their power direct from satan, wich declares the bible clearly in the revelation of JOHN.

Here is the goal: Worldwide "Ultramontenismus" that means ONE-MAN-PAPAL-RULER-OF-THE-WORLD (NWO). The Jesuits have put this in place... right now before your eyes .... but you could not see, because you do not read the bible. It will not come on TV ore in Sony Playstation...;-) There Murdock and all his papal friends will stand for.

So the way is: Destruction of the principle of the national state!!! Then your and my freedom is gone! If there is no neutral state to protect me before the VATICAN of ROM, then the PAPAL LAW will be introduced as LAW of STATE...

All's clear...??

Take STALIN in Russia alone: He murdered ca. 60 Million people and he was a roman-catholic-Jesuit...!!! He was from Tbilissi Jesuit college. He takes his orders direct from the black pope at this time, the Jesuits-General of this papal order, General Ledochowski - a polish adel and high society. It's a long way to get this, but it is the truth. Search the internet - you will found, because true biblical christians will give you this hot information.

We will pray for truth loving people all over the world to get the message out there.. and save our children against these enemies. Our CREATOR of the UNIVERSE and a new earth will come soon. Be prepared...;-)
Best regards to the whole, very big community of ATS...;-)


Why do you take a signature from the horror - satanist - Aleister Crowley...???!! That's my question...:-(

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

Not surprising.

The dream world you live in must be more amazing than a '___' trip, ergo, in another dimension.

Either that or you're unable to write cogent Engliah.

One of the two.

reply to post by trinyhunter


Finally!!

Some solid, undeniable evidence.....of why this crap "9/11 conspiracy" continues to thrive!!!



NOT only the same misguided, and utterly discredited LIES re: just a few aspects (the "gold", etc) but that nonsense is further compounded by the incoherent ramblings, and amended revisionist history lesson that takes a tangent off into Soviet Russia, and Stalin, and then a quasi-coherent religious yada-yada-yada diatribe, complete with a little bit pf proselytizing thrown in for good measure!!! :shk:

I would think the so-called "9/11 truthers" would begin to hang their heads in shame, by now.....

Originally posted by impressme


Perhaps you need to take your own advice before you start condemning everyone who doesn’t agree with you, or the OS. You make all these accusations against ATS posters and their opinions on this thread, yet you do not back up your assumptions and accusations against them, with any evidence.

Except in the post before the one you quote, where I went into some detail. And was hand waved away for my troubles.

You claim Truther only cherry pick what they want to, yet you do not provide any evidence to your claims against GoldenFleece.
You say GoldenFleece butchered a quote, why don’t you show where this was done?

Because it's there in black and white earlier in the thread. If you can't be bothered to follow along that's not my problem.

He even admits it, but then provided some other cherry picked quotes that he says give context. It is my contention that they don't.

I wasn’t aware there was a particular conspiracy theorist's tactic? Is there a hand book?

Pretty much. I haven't checked yet, but I wonder if you've answered my questions in the other thread. I know they were getting tricky, and that's sually the point where either the fingers go in the ears or the shill card comes out.

FYI, if it wasn’t for many conspiracy theorist's we couldn’t have solved so many crimes, many conspiracy theorists are scientists who use science to prove or disprove formulas. Perhaps, you enjoy using the negative connotations “conspiracy theorist's” the way MSN created it and uses it, yet in the real world of science and critical, logical, thinking men such as scientist are rewarded for solving problems.

Yes. Which is why all scientists everywhere are clamouring for an investigation. Except apart from a few wacky types (Jesus went to the US you know?) with no visible means of income beyond giving talks and releasing papers about 9/11, no significant scientific community is at all unsatisfied with the "OS". Nobody really cares. Unless you inhabit the conspiracy world, where P4T are the aviation community and AE911 represents engineering and architecture in a meaningful way.

Can you provide evidence that the general aviation community agrees with the OS?

Very easily. Look at the complete lack of interest in 9/11 "truth" in the aviation community. Aside from a handful of vocal - and self-interested - pilots and wannabe pilots, there is nobody who feels that 9/11 was carried out in a suspicious manner.

It's like me asking you to prove that the first world war happened. There aren't many websites claiming that it did. Where are the majority of historians going on record to say that it occurred? Strangely absent. But rather than a sign of their tacit acceptance, this is precisely because they see it as self-evident.

You cannot prove something that is not there.
You cannot prove a fallacy.
You cannot prove something that never was.
The fact is the OS of 911 is a proven fallacy; therefore it cannot be proven true.

That, even for you, is a bravura piece of reasoning. Let's look more closely.

You cannot prove a fallacy.

Okay. I'll go with you.

The fact is the OS of 911 is a proven fallacy

Hang on, you just said that you couldn't prove a fallacy. And yet you're saying that the OS is one?

I give up.

And this is just another reason NOT to trust a pilot,who has experience in flying,IS decorated,with MANY awards,and would be "in the know" because of said credentials. Pilots are DELUSIONAL!!!!! Dont trust them!

Originally posted by Alfie1
You cling to the idea that they were working on reconciling the $2.3 trillion because that is what you want, but what evidence have you for it ?

First, there is not clinging to an idea. I spoke of no reconciling the money. You have no idea what I want yet insist on putting words into my mouth and theories I supposedly presented. I presented mere fact, none of it theoretical. Apparently, you need me to have a theory when I have present no such thing. You are connecting dots in your head and have proven that YOU are the conspiracy theorist.

Originally posted by Alfie1
It is not even a remotely practical idea. You seem to picture the impacted area of the Pentagon as some sort of Dickensian corner shop where all records could be conveniently contained.

No, YOU seem to picture it as a Dickensian corner shop. I said no such thing. Again, you are trying to attach assertions to what I posted that are not valid. Ever hear of the cornerstone of modern intelligence security? It's called COMPARTMENTALIZATION. In fact, buildings which house highly classified information are called "Secured Compartmentalized Information Facilities" (aka SCIF). The Pentagon is a SCIF. There are SCIFS *within* SCIFS there. Information concerning the questionable nature of an unaccounted-for 2.3 trillion dollars would most certainly be in a SCIF. Compartmentalization keeps only those who NEED TO KNOW in the know, and not everyone else. Which means that it is highly *likely* that the information was not housed on a networked database, and even so, the central storage of information *probably* was in the area where the personnel and hard copies were housed.

Originally posted by Alfie1Fact is the vast sum which had not been properly reconciled over many years arose because the DoD was operating 600 plus computer systems that were not properly communicating with each other, but it has been largely reconciled since which, surely, according to your theory, should not have been possible

Again, I asserted no thoey. I merely presented FACT. So, what should or should not be possible according to my *theory* is an invalid statement since I presented no theory. This is something you can't seem to come to terms with. For what reason? Again, defense is spelled with an S unless you are a Brit. And even then, when referring to a US document, whether you are a Brit or not, you should spell using the country's standards. Otherwise, I'd use the word "colour" instead of "color." Just trying to help. Cheers.

Originally posted by trinyhunter
reply to post by RustyShakleford92

 

"The thing I don't understand about this demolition conspiracy theory is.... why is it so important to make the buildings fall? I mean, 4 hijacked planes, people killed.... HELL one plane to the Pentagon is enough to start a war.

What is the significance of complicating the situation and trying to make the buildings fall? The government could care less about public support, if indeed, a terrorist organization just pummeled a plane into the Pentagon alone."

Hallo friend,
I am german, so my english is not so perfect. My Answer: There are many, many more criminal things, wich the papal knights of the VATICAN / S.M.O.M. have cleared with this 4 building collapses. 1. In WTC 7 was FBI and SEC hosting criminal material against bankster-enemies of the state and the people. 2. In the underground of WTC 1 & 2 was GOLD worth hundreds of billion dollar... already lost... 3. Larry Silverstein (owner) gets from insurance billions of dollar... 4. The big hijackers take the complete GOLD and money of the bank of state of Irak
additional to all the old, ancient items of the original source of mankind from the museums wich you could not can double at any time... 5. For the VATICAN was point 4 absolut important, because the roman catholic church is not a christian but a anti-christian organisation and is absolut at the top at the 666-pyramide under the all seeing eye of lucifer... They are bible-christian-haters and murderers of hundreds of millions of innocent people all over the world. They will destroy all sources of the correct origin of mankind, because they get their power direct from satan, wich declares the bible clearly in the revelation of JOHN.

Here is the goal: Worldwide "Ultramontenismus" that means ONE-MAN-PAPAL-RULER-OF-THE-WORLD (NWO). The Jesuits have put this in place... right now before your eyes .... but you could not see, because you do not read the bible. It will not come on TV ore in Sony Playstation...;-) There Murdock and all his papal friends will stand for.

So the way is: Destruction of the principle of the national state!!! Then your and my freedom is gone! If there is no neutral state to protect me before the VATICAN of ROM, then the PAPAL LAW will be introduced as LAW of STATE...

All's clear...??

Take STALIN in Russia alone: He murdered ca. 60 Million people and he was a roman-catholic-Jesuit...!!! He was from Tbilissi Jesuit college. He takes his orders direct from the black pope at this time, the Jesuits-General of this papal order, General Ledochowski - a polish adel and high society. It's a long way to get this, but it is the truth. Search the internet - you will found, because true biblical christians will give you this hot information.

We will pray for truth loving people all over the world to get the message out there.. and save our children against these enemies. Our CREATOR of the UNIVERSE and a new earth will come soon. Be prepared...;-)
Best regards to the whole, very big community of ATS...;-)


Why do you take a signature from the horror - satanist - Aleister Crowley...???!! That's my question...:-(

Guten Tag mein neuer Freund. Meine entschuldigungen, ich sind nicht aber Deutsch. You do very well writing and expressing yourself in English. I wish I could be fluent in German or another language.

Consider that anything is possible here on ATS. The Crowley quote could have been taken by this member as it is simply interesting and witty. There is likely nothing sinister behind this person using it. But as I mentioned, anything is possible.

I think there is much evidence that there is a Vatican connection and influence behind some world events. I would think you already know of the Jesuits "Black Pope". My question for you is this. If the Vatican is influencing these events, why would you look to the Bible for evidence against the Vatican? There was no Bible prior to the Church of Rome. The Bible is the greatest tool and weapon the Church of Rome has used against humanity. It was used by Rome to subjugate the various peoples the empire conquered. One could argue that it is still used in much the same way.

Keep in mind that all later variations and editions, KJV for instance, were based off of the Roman Catholic Bible. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe they went back to the source material and started from scratch. I don't think that truth can be built upon or derived from lies.

You refer to the Book of Revelation of St John the Divine. I am not a Biblical scholar but I think there is some contention over when that book was added to the Bible. Is it possible that the revelations were written so broadly that nearly anything catastrophic can be made to seem as fullfilling the visions? If so that would be a powerful weapon to once again humble and subjugate the peoples of the world under Roman rule. The very same Roman Empire that killed the Biblical God. Ironic and always there to be read and understood. No revelation necessary.

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s

Who but a Roman could have written that? Consider for a moment that the various Caesars considered themselves living gods. This statement in my interpretation says "give everything tangible and intangible, your wealth and your soul to the emperor, to the living god, to Rome". Next is a link to an on-line book, Caesar: Life of a Colossus by Adrian Goldsworthy. Pages 494 - 495 explains much of the man-god history of the Caesars.

Caesar: Life of a Colossus

There has been much written and researched on the Caesars (emperors, Czars in Russia, Kaisers in German) and their lives and desires. One of those desires was clearly world domination at a time when the true size and scope of the world was not fully understood. An emperor could only conquer the world with military might and that had failed. Evidenced by the decline and "falls" of the various empirical fronts through military losses. A pope however could conquer and subjugate peoples with mere thoughts and the threats of punishment in a next life. What is the possibility that the man-god position in Rome evolved from emperor to pope?

My point is if we question the intents of the Church of Rome, at what point should our suspicions stop? I think not at the Roman handbook.

My apologies for getting a bit far afield from the OP but as you all know this conspiracy business is apt to promote that. We are however considering conspiracy within the very foundations of modern society and the Vatican, while it is still considered by some as part of modern society, must be considered. On this I am in agreement with trinyhunter.

Originally posted by GhostLancer

I presented mere fact, none of it theoretical.
...

Again, I asserted no thoey. I merely presented FACT.

And yet you began the post he is replying to with this phrase

Originally posted by GhostLancer

DISCLAIMER: I can't confirm nor deny that what I heard is fact.

Confused much?

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


My opinion on 9/11 from the very start has been of an insider job.
You presidant at the time was more interesed in a story about 'DUCKS' at a school class( very much staged) than THE NEWS OF EVENTS THAT SHOCKED THE ENTIRE WORLD.
It happened to convince us all that OUR lifes are in danger 24/7 and that certain countries 'ways of life' needed to be corrected( iraq,afgan e.t.c.).
Fuel, and profits from war where the biggest reasons.
My heart cries for the unwilling victims that have lost thers lives or sufferd.......... because a hand full of billionaires/trillionaires wanted to be more richer and powerful.
Life is the most preciuos thing on this planet...........When will you so called 'ELITE' realise this?

reply to post by mespen


You seem to think that all billionaires want is more money and power. History shows us just the opposite. With that kind of thinking it’s no wonder you believe in conspiracies.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by mespen

 

You seem to think that all billionaires want is more money and power. History shows us just the opposite. With that kind of thinking it’s no wonder you believe in conspiracies.

Just curious, but which billionaires in history weren't eager to increase their fortune, or use their fortune to influence the masses or govts?
The closest one I can get would be Howard Hughes, but even he had shady dealings with the American govt.

Originally posted by GhostLancer

Originally posted by Alfie1
You cling to the idea that they were working on reconciling the $2.3 trillion because that is what you want, but what evidence have you for it ?

First, there is not clinging to an idea. I spoke of no reconciling the money. You have no idea what I want yet insist on putting words into my mouth and theories I supposedly presented. I presented mere fact, none of it theoretical. Apparently, you need me to have a theory when I have present no such thing. You are connecting dots in your head and have proven that YOU are the conspiracy theorist.

Originally posted by Alfie1
It is not even a remotely practical idea. You seem to picture the impacted area of the Pentagon as some sort of Dickensian corner shop where all records could be conveniently contained.

No, YOU seem to picture it as a Dickensian corner shop. I said no such thing. Again, you are trying to attach assertions to what I posted that are not valid. Ever hear of the cornerstone of modern intelligence security? It's called COMPARTMENTALIZATION. In fact, buildings which house highly classified information are called "Secured Compartmentalized Information Facilities" (aka SCIF). The Pentagon is a SCIF. There are SCIFS *within* SCIFS there. Information concerning the questionable nature of an unaccounted-for 2.3 trillion dollars would most certainly be in a SCIF. Compartmentalization keeps only those who NEED TO KNOW in the know, and not everyone else. Which means that it is highly *likely* that the information was not housed on a networked database, and even so, the central storage of information *probably* was in the area where the personnel and hard copies were housed.

Originally posted by Alfie1Fact is the vast sum which had not been properly reconciled over many years arose because the DoD was operating 600 plus computer systems that were not properly communicating with each other, but it has been largely reconciled since which, surely, according to your theory, should not have been possible

Again, I asserted no thoey. I merely presented FACT. So, what should or should not be possible according to my *theory* is an invalid statement since I presented no theory. This is something you can't seem to come to terms with. For what reason? Again, defense is spelled with an S unless you are a Brit. And even then, when referring to a US document, whether you are a Brit or not, you should spell using the country's standards. Otherwise, I'd use the word "colour" instead of "color." Just trying to help. Cheers.

Let me remind you what you said back on page 7. " 2.3 trillion dollars of military funding was unaccounted for .according to SECDEF Donald Rumsfeld in a Sept 10th 2001 press conference/statement, televised. The people and the databases and the physical files were located *precisely* where the impact occurred."

You say you have presented no theory, only facts, so I presume what you said above is supposed to be fact.

In response to that I gave you a link to a DoD financial document proving that those killed and injured in the Pentagon on 9/11 who had a financial management function were engaged on Army matters for FY 2001.

Can you substantiate your allegation that in fact " the people and the databases and the physical files were located *precisely* where the impact occurred " ?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by GhostLancer

I presented mere fact, none of it theoretical.
...

Again, I asserted no thoey. I merely presented FACT.

And yet you began the post he is replying to with this phrase

Originally posted by GhostLancer

DISCLAIMER: I can't confirm nor deny that what I heard is fact.

Confused much?

You are missing the overall message of the post and focusing on a nit-pick. That does not invalidate what I said, further, you combined quotes from two different posts. In one post, I did say that I couldn't confirm nor deny that what I heard was fact or not, but it was not the post concerning the events of the Pentagon.

Directly from the debunker training manual: when in doubt, be sure to attack the person, not the idea. Of course, the true debunkers in the 9-11 situation are those who are debunking the OS. This has upset many believers in the OS.

reply to post by GhostLancer


So you are sure it's fact or you're not sure it's fact?

Because Alfie seems to have posted a direct and persuasive refutation of your "facts". Are you just going to ignore it?

reply to post by Alfie1

Former Governor Jesse Ventura and his investigative team for his show "Conspiracy Theory" presented a good case for this in an episode dedicated to the Pentagon Attack. Regardless of what anyone may think of Jesse Ventura, he IS a former governor. With that comes a certain level of credibility. I'm sure you can YouTube and view the episode and the evidence he presents.

Further, here are a couple of other links that prove that accountants and bookkeepers were killed, the first even having a layout of the offices affected. If you need more than this, then it is a good starting point for some objective research.

911research.wtc7.net...
www.allvoices.com...

Also, realize that this is a sensitive area for the DoD. They aren't going to put any effort into searching for official documents because in the end, the information would make them look questionable. Further, because of changes to FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) requests, the government is allowed to take YEARS to reply, and then even charge hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to "search" for the requested documents. This effectively strangles the process by making the wait absurdly long and the price out of the reach of 99% of Americans. ---Who is able (and willing) to pay for a FOIA request that will take years, cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to "purchase" --and without even a guarantee that you will get the forms requested? The government has even gone so far as to RECLASSIFY documents previously released via FOIA. The "FREEdom of Information Act" is hardly FREE. In fact, it is now potentially VERY expensive, especially if you are searching for documents that would ultimately put the government into questionable light.

The FOIA process was brought up to illustrate why there are VERY FEW, if any,"official" records available to the public with exacting details. Further, as stated in previous posts, COMPARTMENTALIZED information is usually classified information, so there is a high level of doubt of ever getting those documents. Our DoD does not make it habit to share secrets. Also, personnel records of the government are all covered by the Privacy Act, so very few (if any) people get the particular information on exactly who was killed, how, and what their exact job and tasks were.

However, the fact that the Pentagon's accounting wing was hit during an audit of "unaccounted for" funds amounting to 2.3 trillion dollars and dozens of accountants and bookkeepers were lost says a lot. Most likely, a lot of that 2.3 trillion dollars found its way to clandestine budgets and black ops that are completely out of congressional, Presidential, and (therefore) public OVERSIGHT.

One last thought on official documents: the 9-11 Commission's report is an official document, much like the Warren Commission's report was an official document. It is not past our government to create official documents that seem valid yet distort the truth.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by GhostLancer

 

So you are sure it's fact or you're not sure it's fact?

Because Alfie seems to have posted a direct and persuasive refutation of your "facts". Are you just going to ignore it?

Nice tag-teaming.

Originally posted by GhostLancer

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by GhostLancer

 

So you are sure it's fact or you're not sure it's fact?

Because Alfie seems to have posted a direct and persuasive refutation of your "facts". Are you just going to ignore it?

Nice tag-teaming.

Nice dodge.

What happened to the vast majority of that money that is now accounted for? Did they just print some more? Do you have any "facts" on this?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by GhostLancer

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by GhostLancer

 

So you are sure it's fact or you're not sure it's fact?

Because Alfie seems to have posted a direct and persuasive refutation of your "facts". Are you just going to ignore it?

Nice tag-teaming.

Nice dodge.

What happened to the vast majority of that money that is now accounted for? Did they just print some more? Do you have any "facts" on this?

I never claimed to have any knowledge of what happened to the money. I never asserted anything about anything concerning the money other than the FACT that SECDEF Rumsfeld announced that it was unaccounted for the day before 9-11 happened. You seem bent on trying to make connections that I have not made and assertions that I have not uttered. So, please, wipe the rabid froth from your mouth and relax. Ease down hero.