$100,000+ Salaries for School Teachers?

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posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by intelinside451
 





I mean really, who gets pensions anymore???????? Much less the likes of which the teachers and state workers of this country are use to....


Isn't that the truth. Most of the people I know do not have pensions including me. Heck every company I worked for is deader than a door nail and so is any possible pensions.




posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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macman- What else? How about the answer to my other questions. You sure seem to do a good job avoiding what might not fit your illogical, asinine and false argument.

P.S.- You claim of your total salary and claim of how much you make an hour does not jibe. Why is that? If I was to argue the way you do I would simply say you are lying.

Intelinside451- I simply presented facts about the teaching profession, that people like you refuse to see and hear. I said nothing about any other profession, so your argument is simply is both irrational and merely trying to steer away from a course that you are doomed to failure on.

crimvelvet- Hence the reason I said "very few."



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


Here is a bit of advice - teachers in the US earn about the same as every other modern western nation - its right. The problem in the US is that nominal salaries and standard of living in the US are below 1970's standards - why - because unions have been destroyed in almost every industry - meaning - all other wages are going down.

Your ignorant position is that since everyone elses wages have been destroyed - so to should teachers. What you should be saying is lets unionize, get together and demand better wages and conditions for everyone, rather than simply destroying what remains.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by backwherewestarted
macman- What else? How about the answer to my other questions. You sure seem to do a good job avoiding what might not fit your illogical, asinine and false argument.

P.S.- You claim of your total salary and claim of how much you make an hour does not jibe. Why is that? If I was to argue the way you do I would simply say you are lying.

Intelinside451- I simply presented facts about the teaching profession, that people like you refuse to see and hear. I said nothing about any other profession, so your argument is simply is both irrational and merely trying to steer away from a course that you are doomed to failure on.

crimvelvet- Hence the reason I said "very few."


What did I miss to address to you,[snip]
My claim was for TOTAL COMPENSATION, including any bonuses, take home vehicle because I am on a bi weekly 24 hour on call rotation, health insurance, life insurance and so on.[snip]
What else, because I just re-read you last posts and don't see that I missed anything.

It still goes that teachers are a whiny bunch. They are not paid on productivity, or percentages. They are paid on contract negotiations, as a collective, not personal merit. And they are paid by the tax payer.
The tax payer has spoken, you, teachers and the unions don't like it so are crying.
[snip]
I think more parents should home school, and work to avoid this BS.
If I went to a protest, called in sick and anyone with my chain of command saw me in TV protesting, I would be fired. But no, not the high and mighty teachers. They get a pass. And not only a pass, but they get doctors handing out false excuses and then encourage their students to go protest with them. What a bunch of slimeballs.
I have never in my life seen a larger group of cowards that need not only a group of like minded buffoons to cry foul, but to also use their students as cannon fodder.
Worthless, plain and simple.
[snip]




edit on 20-2-2011 by elevatedone because: Mod Edit - Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by macman
 





It boils down to either the teachers take a cut, or shortly down the road some get laid off.


It is worse than that. If the state and federal governments do not get their acts together and quit hemorrhaging money there will be only a minimal government left.

Just look at the city where the Union was King: Last week, the school board announced the closing of one-quarter of Detroit's schools. The city is out of money. Heck if you hung around ATS for the past couple of weeks you have seen the videos and pictures of the death of Detroit.

America’s Ten Dead Cities: From Detroit To New Orleans



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by Aristophrenia
reply to post by crimvelvet
 


Here is a bit of advice - teachers in the US earn about the same as every other modern western nation - its right. The problem in the US is that nominal salaries and standard of living in the US are below 1970's standards - why - because unions have been destroyed in almost every industry - meaning - all other wages are going down.

Your ignorant position is that since everyone elses wages have been destroyed - so to should teachers. What you should be saying is lets unionize, get together and demand better wages and conditions for everyone, rather than simply destroying what remains.


Yeah, because unions are the solution to all problems in the work place.
They are crippling companies in my career field to the point that they get bailouts from the Govt, to continue to pay people not to work and for pensions. These companies had mass layoffs, only to turn around and hire people for part time work, so they can avoid the large debt of paying the full time people.
Unions were good for work place safety and in relation to child labor lays. That's it.
There is a reason why QWest charges a business $850 a month for T1 service, yet my company and others like mine charge $500 for the same service. Qwest is loosing customers fast, and we are getting their lose.
And lets not forget how well Unions did for GM and Chevy. What do you think the Govt bailouts went to them for?



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by macman
 





It boils down to either the teachers take a cut, or shortly down the road some get laid off.


It is worse than that. If the state and federal governments do not get their acts together and quit hemorrhaging money there will be only a minimal government left.

Just look at the city where the Union was King: Last week, the school board announced the closing of one-quarter of Detroit's schools. The city is out of money. Heck if you hung around ATS for the past couple of weeks you have seen the videos and pictures of the death of Detroit.

America’s Ten Dead Cities: From Detroit To New Orleans


Union Mecas.
Yeah Unions!!!!!!



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by backwherewestarted
macman- What else? How about the answer to my other questions. You sure seem to do a good job avoiding what might not fit your illogical, asinine and false argument.

P.S.- You claim of your total salary and claim of how much you make an hour does not jibe. Why is that? If I was to argue the way you do I would simply say you are lying.

Intelinside451- I simply presented facts about the teaching profession, that people like you refuse to see and hear. I said nothing about any other profession, so your argument is simply is both irrational and merely trying to steer away from a course that you are doomed to failure on.

crimvelvet- Hence the reason I said "very few."


What did I miss to address to you, lord highness?
My claim was for TOTAL COMPENSATION, including any bonuses, take home vehicle because I am on a bi weekly 24 hour on call rotation, health insurance, life insurance and so on. Maybe pull your head out and look around some time.
What else, because I just re-read you last posts and don't see that I missed anything.

It still goes that teachers are a whiny bunch. They are not paid on productivity, or percentages. They are paid on contract negotiations, as a collective, not personal merit. And they are paid by the tax payer.
The tax payer has spoken, you, teachers and the unions don't like it so are crying.
Take your ball and go home.
I think more parents should home school, and work to avoid this BS.
If I went to a protest, called in sick and anyone with my chain of command saw me in TV protesting, I would be fired. But no, not the high and mighty teachers. They get a pass. And not only a pass, but they get doctors handing out false excuses and then encourage their students to go protest with them. What a bunch of slimeballs.
I have never in my life seen a larger group of cowards that need not only a group of like minded buffoons to cry foul, but to also use their students as cannon fodder.
Worthless, plain and simple.
Go back to work and stop crying.


1) So you make about $45k in salary and get a vehicle to use (which a teacher does not get), bonuses (which a teacher does not get), life insurance, health insurance and so on and claim to only make "around $80k." Let's do the math, 45k, plus a vehicle (let's go cheap and say 20k) is $65k, that leaves about 15k for health, life and bonus. I am going to say that it is very difficult for those numbers to work out. In other words, I think you are fudging the numbers.

2) Wow, now you are resorting to personal attacks on me and insults towards all teachers. That makes it clear that it is a waste of my, or any intelligent persons, time to discuss this any further.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Why isn't Wall Street paying? They caused most of this mess with funds. Yet no one's going after them, and the reason is pretty obvious. It's much easier to topple the American workers still left in the middle class—and it's the plan.
edit on 2/20/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by backwherewestarted

Originally posted by macman
They pay for stuff out of pocket. Question for you, what amount towards a teacher, goes to the Union? I am willing to bet that if that amount was removed from the Union, and placed to where it should be going, to fund the school, that issue would be gone.

My compensation is close to $80k a year. I have more training and certs then the average teacher. My job is not Govt funded. My responsibilities are about 10 times greater then most teachers. You will get no sympathy from me.
Teachers are paid via tax payers. They tax payers have spoken. Don't walk outside into a rain storm and be pissed when you get wet.


Interesting how you fail to mention your specific job, fail to add in benefits to tell us how much you "make" like the OP is claiming, fail to tell us your responsibilities, fail to tell us these certifications.

P.S.- Once again you have shown your complete ignorance about the teaching profession.


Simple SA.
Pay is around $21-23 an hour. I am a Telecom Tech II for an ISP.
Certs range from Nortel/Lucent Switches to Cisco CCNA/CCNP. I am 1 of only 2 techs for all of UT, I stated that , maybe go back and look. I support about 40k customers, 1 switch site, 35 remote sites.
What else do you want?


Macman, are you kidding me?

You have a sit-on-your-ass kind of job. If you are decent at what you do you should be able to service at least half those remote sites, well remotely, without leaving your air-conditioned office. The 40K customers aren't your problem the vast majority of the time unless the service your company provides is so crappy you are constantly responding to individuals. The core of your job is the one switch site and 35 remotes, so if you have to visit each remote site once a week, although it's hard to imagine why you'd need to, that means you visit one or two per day on average.

Now once there, what exactly is all that hard labor ass-busting you do? Replace a card? Move some cables?

I'd guess that mostly what you do is drive a company air-conditioned car or truck, listening to tunes while you enjoy the scenery.

Please.

You've no idea of what really hard work is.
edit on 20-2-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-2-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by backwherewestarted
 


TOTAL COMPENSATION is just that.
A teacher does not get a vehicle? They are not required to drive from Salt Lake City to ST George for their work.
They don't get placed on 24 hour on call.
Do you want me to cry for them now, or later?
Bonuses? Then maybe they should not be a teacher. Cry now, or later?
I do not make $80 a year, never said I did. Where you by chance educated by one of these WI teachers?
Even if my COMPENSATION number was high, and should be lower, that just shoots your argument down even further.
By all accounts, I should be making more then the average teacher.
Again, boo hoo for the teachers. Do you want me to cry now, or later?
They are Govt employees, paid from tax dollars. The tax payer has spoken and you don't like it.
Maybe work where that's not the case.

Please spare me from the poor teacher routine. If they/you don't like it, go find another job. Instead of protesting and whining like a bunch of 5 year olds.

Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.
edit on 2/20/2011 by maria_stardust because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by Aristophrenia

Your ignorant position is that since everyone elses wages have been destroyed - so to should teachers. What you should be saying is lets unionize, get together and demand better wages and conditions for everyone, rather than simply destroying what remains.


Its the "sour grapes" philosophy of wages. "I dont make that, why should you?" "I dont get benefits, why should you?" "I dont have a pension, why should you?"

They dont realize that their choices to support companies that hack and slash labor, wages, pensions, so they can provide bigger and bigger bonuses to the top management is the problem. The solution is not to demand that everyone fall to the lowest common denominator, its to realize that it was unions, and solid American wages that brought us the prosperity we enjoyed prior to the 70's. And it is the return to pre-organized labor conditions for workers that is undermining our nation.

Corporations are not your friend. They are your competition. And that holds true whether you are working for them, or buying from them. You are a fool of the highest order if you think voting for what is in their best interests is in your best interests.

edit on 20-2-2011 by Illusionsaregrander because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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This ATS article has an intentionally misleading title. No where does it say in the article or video sited that the teachers salaries are $100,000. Both sources state that the average teacher salaries are $56,000 - and that's before they take out taxes. If anyone thinks that's a lot of money for living in America and supporting a family then I feel bad for you.
edit on 20-2-2011 by zerotime because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


Why should you make more than a teacher?

Your contribution to society is infintiely smaller than any teacher's, so they should make a lot more than you.

Good IT people are a dime a dozen, mediocre ones a penny a pound. Teachers are rarer, good ones are infinitely more rare.

Anyway, guess what? Your job is nearly obsolete: advances in computing and telecommunications combined with changes in base architecture means the field will be shrinking for the forseeable future. Efficiency and all that.

Talk to me a year from now



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by apacheman

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by backwherewestarted

Originally posted by macman
They pay for stuff out of pocket. Question for you, what amount towards a teacher, goes to the Union? I am willing to bet that if that amount was removed from the Union, and placed to where it should be going, to fund the school, that issue would be gone.

My compensation is close to $80k a year. I have more training and certs then the average teacher. My job is not Govt funded. My responsibilities are about 10 times greater then most teachers. You will get no sympathy from me.
Teachers are paid via tax payers. They tax payers have spoken. Don't walk outside into a rain storm and be pissed when you get wet.


Interesting how you fail to mention your specific job, fail to add in benefits to tell us how much you "make" like the OP is claiming, fail to tell us your responsibilities, fail to tell us these certifications.

P.S.- Once again you have shown your complete ignorance about the teaching profession.


Simple SA.
Pay is around $21-23 an hour. I am a Telecom Tech II for an ISP.
Certs range from Nortel/Lucent Switches to Cisco CCNA/CCNP. I am 1 of only 2 techs for all of UT, I stated that , maybe go back and look. I support about 40k customers, 1 switch site, 35 remote sites.
What else do you want?


Macman, are you kidding me?

You have a sit-on-your-ass kind of job. If you are decent at what you do you should be able to service at least half those remore sites, well remotely, without leaving your air-conditioned office. The 40K customers aren't your problem the vast majority of the time unless the service your company provides is so crappy you are constantly responding to individuals. The core of your job is the one switch site and 35 remotes, so if you have to visit each remote site once a week, although it's hard to imagine why you'd need to, that means you visit one or two per day on average.

Now once there, what exactly is all that hard labor ass-busting you do? Replace a card? Move some cables?

I'd guess that mostly what you do is drive a company air-conditioned car or truck, listening to tunes while you enjoy the scenery.

Please.

You've no idea of what really hard work is.
edit on 20-2-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)


Wow. Now I know who that little guy has been sitting in the corner of my office for the last year is. You have been watching me huh?
Sit on my ass job, alright wise ass.
I have all of UT as my responsibility. From the most north tip bordering ID to the southern city of ST George.
I manage my switch site, and have weekly checks to all 35 COLOs. I am responsible for 50+ manhole locations and several thousands of miles of cable.
I manage not only the switch, but our transport equipment, long haul and backbone. I interact daily with about 6 different ISP companies. I run my own monitoring display viewing the entire state. I have daily reports to go trough for errors in all my equipment.
I have created the walk through and training docs for all news sales reps, nation wide and provide training for other techs as well, nationwide. I drove about 100k miles last year alone. I am at my office from 7am and my day doesn't end until about 5pm. About 75% of the customers here have my desk/cell phone, so yes they are my problem. The other 25% have the other techs info.
Oh yeah, no pension for me. No union. No tenure. No tax payer funded position.
And lets also look at my past jobs, smart ass.
Military for 4 years, police officer, auto transport repair tech and operations manager. I worked outside coax cable in AZ for several years.
Oh yeah, and hard work, really?
I run my own small business and work a weekend helpdesk job.
So again, spare me the whole poor teacher routine.
Quit crying and go back to work.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by macman
 


Why should you make more than a teacher?

Your contribution to society is infintiely smaller than any teacher's, so they should make a lot more than you.

Good IT people are a dime a dozen, mediocre ones a penny a pound. Teachers are rarer, good ones are infinitely more rare.

Anyway, guess what? Your job is nearly obsolete: advances in computing and telecommunications combined with changes in base architecture means the field will be shrinking for the forseeable future. Efficiency and all that.

Talk to me a year from now

Teachers are rare. really, is that why more parents last year and the year before pulled their kids out of public schools and started home schooling?
As for my job, think again. My certs and training and what I have been working on takes me very far into the future. As far as a dime a dozen, yeah about the same rate as whiny union members or internet tough guys.
The old telecom guys, Union members jobs are becoming obsolete. They refuse and demand that they need not learn the new systems or the fact it is going IT based. Hence the reason I have my CCNA/CCNP.

Oh, sorry for not being on the same level as the high and mighty teacher, let me bow down before your and their grace. Shall I kiss your ring as well?
Next you will pitch that politicians make greater contributions then I. What a crock.
You place them on a pedestal because they teach kids, in this case to go protest with them when they don't get their way? Now you are just grasping at straws. I'm lowly and teachers are great.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by Aristophrenia
 




Here is a bit of advice - teachers in the US earn about the same as every other modern western nation - its right. The problem in the US is that nominal salaries and standard of living in the US are below 1970's standards - why - because unions have been destroyed in almost every industry - meaning - all other wages are going down.

Your ignorant position is that since everyone elses wages have been destroyed - so to should teachers. What you should be saying is lets unionize, get together and demand better wages and conditions for everyone, rather than simply destroying what remains.


OK let me connect the dots since the pro union types seem to be blind to what is happening. And what is happening scares the heck out of me. I have nightmares -literally!

Sorry this is long but if you do not understand and see the scope of the problem you can not see that it is the slow death of the USA, and I am VERY serious about that.

Follow the money
1. Businesses make products (or services) that are sold to customers.
2. Part of the sales price goes to pay for raw materials, equipment, buildings, taxes, wages and overhead.
3. The wages of the employees are taxed.
4. part of the tax revenue goes to pay the salaries of bureaucrats, teachers, law enforcement, fire....

The money flow STARTS with businesses. Without businesses there are no tax dollars.
EVERYONE understand that?????

Now we look at what has happened to US business in the last three decades. “Washington is doing everything in their manpower, capability, to destroy U.S. manufacturing,”

In 1970 24% of the labor force worked in manufacturing today it is less than 9%. If we do not make thing to sell we will go broke. It is that simple. Clinton ratified the World Trade Organization Treaty that did away with protective tariffs and quarantine. He also was instrumental in China's entry to WTO. This resulted in the mass exodus of US manufacturing. THIS is the reason we as a country can no longer pay good wages. We can not compete with slave wages and polluting factories with out tariffs to protect our businesses.

The recent problems actually started with Reagan.

LEVERAGED BUYOUTS


DEFINITION:

Leveraged buyouts involve an investor, financial sponsors or private equity firms making large acquisitions without committing all the capital required for the acquisition. To do this, a financial sponsor will raise acquisition debt which is ultimately secured upon the acquisition target... en.wikipedia.org...


In other words the investor is placing a mortgage on property he does not OWN!!!


This is not moral or ethical and given what happened during the Great Depression, I would be very surprised if laws were not enacted to prevent it. SO - Where the heck was CONGRESS. Where the heck were the COURTS when this was going on??? Where the HECK was Obama and the democrats??? If you want to do one single thing to help America get back on her feet OBAMA, then Declare Leveraged Buyouts ILLEGAL. They are certainly immoral and very destructive to the country.

If you want to know what the US government did about it...


...In January 1982, former US Secretary of the Treasury William Simon and a group of investors acquired Gibson Greetings, a producer of greeting cards, for $80 million, of which only $1 million was rumored to have been contributed by the investors. By mid-1983, just sixteen months after the original deal, Gibson completed a $290 million IPO and Simon made approximately $66 million. The success of the Gibson Greetings investment attracted the attention of the wider media to the nascent boom in leveraged buyouts.[10] Between 1979 and 1989, it was estimated that there were over 2,000 leveraged buyouts valued in excess of $250 billion... en.wikipedia.org...


This is why American companies can no longer pay good wages.



....These days, corporations seem to exist for the investment bankers.... In fact, investment banks are replacing the publicly held industrial corporations as the largest and most powerful economic institutions in America.... THERE ARE SIGNS THAT A VICIOUS spiral has begun, as each corporate player seeks to improve its standard of living at the expense of another's. Corporate raiders transfer to themselves, and other shareholders, part of the income of employees by forcing the latter to agree to lower wages. January 29, 1989 New York Times: LEVER AGED BUYOUTS: AMERICAN PAYS THE PRICE



....Both economic and regulatory factors combined to spur the explosion in large takeovers and, in turn, large LBOs. The three regulatory factors were the Reagan administration's relatively laissez-faire policies on antitrust and securities laws, which allowed mergers the government would have challenged in earlier years; the 1982 Supreme Court decision striking down state antitakeover laws (which were resurrected with great effectiveness in the late eighties); and deregulation of many industries, which prompted restructurings and mergers. The main economic factor was the development of the original-issue high-yield debt instrument. The so-called "junk bond" innovation, pioneered by Michael Milken of Drexel Burnham, provided many hostile bidders and LBO firms with the enormous amounts of capital needed to finance multi-billion-dollar deals.... www.econlib.org...



...In the 1980s during the great takeover boom and hollowing out of the industrial heartland, many states adopted amendments to their corporate codes that codified directors' fiduciary duties, so-called "constituency statutes". In general, these provisions made it clear that a director need not "maximize shareholder value." Rather, in complying with their fiduciary obligations, directors may take all sorts of things into consideration - the impact of their decisions on various constituencies, including employees, the community, the environment, the color of the sky, whatever...

The 1980s LBO boom was a scourge for management. They used whatever tools at their disposal to prevent an acquisition... The Delaware courts stepped in... In short, the message from the courts was that boards did not have a free hand to put off all takeover attempts... [remember many firms are incorporated in delaware because of business friendly laws] lawprofessors.typepad.com...


Leveraged Buyouts are still going on

‘Whitewashed Windows and Vacant Stores’


THIS is the reason we as a country can no longer pay good wages.
edit on 20-2-2011 by crimvelvet because: delete sentence
edit on 20-2-2011 by crimvelvet because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by zerotime
 


They deliberately use the "total compensation" figure to enrage the people who dont realize how they come up with figures like that.

Its like in the old days when the masters pitted the house slaves, the field slaves and the white trash against one another. Its just a way to keep the people who should be ganging up and fighting on the same side against the people exploiting them fighting one another instead. Its the oldest trick in the book.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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Apacheman- Don't bother with macman, he is not here for intelligent discussion, here is here to attack and insult anyone who does not share his opinions and close his eyes and ears to facts. It also speaks volumes that he did not get what you were doing when you posted your last post about his job.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Hey look, I agreed and even stated that it is $100k in compensation.
It is still ridicules at best. It's a Govt job. The Govt does not produce any goods. It forces citizens to give up their money to provide for others.





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