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$100,000+ Salaries for School Teachers?

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posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by something wicked
 





I've nothing against the thought of home schooling, but I do think the approach is simplified so much it doesn't really do justice to the effort required.


You are looking at it from the point of view of spoon feeding the information to the kid. The best part of home schooling is teaching the child independence and a thirst for knowledge.

This is what I recommend to my customers after purchasing it and reviewing the material. We use it to tutor some of the neighborhood kids. I do free tutoring on request. My small business is Children's Entertainment.


Review of the Robinson Self-teaching Home School Curriculum

This is an excellent, complete K-12 curriculum for every home school. The only addition needed is Saxon math books. Saxon books are available to RC users at a 20% discount through the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, publisher of this curriculum. Everything else comes in the case of 22 CDs. The delivered price of $195 is astonishingly low.....
HomeSchool.org


EDITED by me, not sure if you are selling as a franchise, if you are then be aware of T's and C's. If you are not then the teacher out of a box option is a matter of opinion.
edit on 21-2-2011 by something wicked because: For reasons outlined




posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by FREEwoman
 




Education is THE NUMBER ONE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD - to a FREE nation that would like future generations to REMAIN FREE.

BUT - what children receive in public schools today in the US is not what I would call an education. Like someone mentioned above, students these days are taught to be law-abiding sheep, nothing more....


Thankyou for putting into a few words what several of us have been trying to say. Good pay for good teachers and a good education? - No Problem, DEMANDING high pay for doing a crappy job and failing the students?


The cry of "It's For The Children" has worn thinner year after year. I heard it in 1970 and I hear it now. All I see is a great big FAILURE! So do those who have looked closely at the US education system.


No teacher, but every textbook, left behind

More generally, the quality of the twelve most popular science textbooks for middle-schoolers is so low, Hubisz concluded, that none had an acceptable level of accuracy....

An exasperated William Bennetta explained why so many teachers accept inferior textbooks from these publishers, "[T]he major schoolbook companies… have long recognized that the teacher corps in America includes some desperate dumbbells, and the companies have learned to produce books that the dumbbells will like....

We have learned this, if nothing else, from the selective prosecution of Mr. Gossai: con a few people, and it's a felony; con millions, and it's educating the youth of America."



...I am reminded of this by an August 9 dispatch from the AP's Jennifer Coleman about a chain of private schools whose curriculum is so "riddled with errors" that outraged judges and attorneys general in four states have acted to close them down....

If they are coming down so hard on him for his alleged bilking of adult Hispanic immigrants out of thousands of their dollars, then these authorities must be in avid pursuit of the publishers of shoddy public school textbooks and of the people who used billions in tax money to inflict them on our children. Right? Wrong. There is no public outcry about "education contractors" or analogies to $600 Pentagon hammers, no demands for refunds, no civil suits, and no publishing houses' executives doing perp walks. The reasons why are doubtless many, but not least would be that most of the employees involved in buying the books are members of powerful unions, and the president of those selling the books, the American Association of Publishers, is former congresswoman Patricia Schroeder....

...one textbook can be, as the American School Board Journal noted, well over 1000 pages long, with "… splashy illustrations, large type, short sidebars, and funky headlines, all set off by expanses of white space." The same article summed them up as "20-pound packages of glitz....

Size does make a difference, and thousand-page textbooks are to be expected when one recalls what economy of scale means to a publisher: money. Multiply this by millions of textbooks, and it is a marvel there are still trees left standing in North America.

How about self-policing by the education, uh, professionals who select textbooks for public schools? (By the way, they use the word adopt instead of buy, presumably because of the latter's implication of tawdry commercialism.) These professionals have their own organization: NASTA, which stands for, one of its web pages tells us, National Association of School Textbook Administrattors [sic]. Apparently the "administrattors" carried over to their web site the skills they had finely honed in reviewing textbooks for half-billion dollar adoptions. NASTA's level of concern over textbook errors is almost below sea level...

The US Department of Education, Jimmy Carter's gift to the teachers' unions, seems even less interested in textbook errors than is NASTA. The DOE Web site is enormous but neither it nor other sites linked to it mention textbook critics like Hubisz or Bennetta. There are 34 mentions of the Hubisz' sponsor, the Packard Foundation, none of them about his study of science textbooks. If the Department of Education is on top of the textbook problem, it is only to cover it up.

Unfortunately, textbooks are crucial to learning. As the American School Board Journal reports, "… between 80 and 90 percent of classroom and homework assignments are textbook-driven…

...Alistair B. Fraser, a professor of meteorology who runs web sites exposing bad science in textbooks, concluded bleakly, "Apparently, most teachers believe everything they teach." To which I add, why not? Cornell professor Donald Hayes, quoted in the Grandfather Education Report, reported on results of sampling 788 textbooks used between 1860 and 1992: "Honors high school texts are no more difficult than an eighth grade reader was before World War II." (And in an essay written over half a century ago Randall Jarrell complained that 1930's textbooks were much easier than the ones from the 19th century!) So by now our teachers, and their teachers, and their teachers, have been dragged through the same swamp of bad textbooks...

And the same might be true of the parents, school boards, and the culture at large. It may be that our culture has already dropped below the critical mass necessary to transmit learning, reason, traditions, and values from one generation to the next...

..a modest beginning is possible without razing hundreds of schools of education: if we want, say, a teacher who is prepared to present more challenging material to 8th grade students, one is already available down the hall, teaching the 9th or 10th grade. As for those in the 11th and 12th grades, this nation has a surplus of under-employed college graduates. Better yet, most of them do not have degrees in education....



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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The fact of the matter the Union bashing that is going on in the US over the past several months is part of a well organised Right Wing campaign funded by the Koch Brothers - the main drive is deflect focus away from the Banksters who ruined not just the American but pushed the global financial markets to the brink - forcing governments around the world to bail them out with taxpayer money.

Now these right wing republicans want to force the blame onto the poorest and most vulnerable in society - teachers, firefighters, police. Wow. They are blaming these people for the massive financial hole that the US and other societies are in - its not the Banks fault or Wall St. Its the Unions.

And people on here fall for it like gullible idiotic sheep they are. How can you be so incredibly stupid as to not realise that this is exactly what they want. You to willingly give up your freedoms, your rights, your benefits, your pay, your life in order to better serve the corporate overlords ?

It is just insane to think that people can be that gullible and believe it is the Unions fault - when governments are handing out insane tax cuts to rich businesses who are just sending their jobs off shore, insane bailouts, capital funds and benefits to banks and hedge funds and then blaming the entire fiscal fall out from these crazy wealth transfers on the working class of America.

Which part of this can't people understand ? Its fundamental, logical and clear as day light.

How quickly you people have forgotten what these Bankers did. How quickly you turn on the weakest, the most vulnerable - the bedrock of American society - the middle class workers.

you have no shame - and no brains.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by intelinside451
 


If they get 100,000 a year our kids should all be genius'



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by Evanzsayz
 


AS POSTED PREVIOUSLY - WHICH I AM YET TO SEE SOMEONE DISPUTE:

This article is biased - they are saying how much the average teacher earns + benefit's but they make no comparisson to other professions and they do not consider how many years the teacher has spent in training, and on the job, or the number of hours they put in to their work - when convincing you they are paid too much.

Teachers work hard - they not only baby the rotten kid's of the modern age, they have to spend their days teaching lessons and the nights preparing them - they do not get paid for all the prep they often have to do. Teachers also have to stay late and on weekends at times for meetings etc

Teachers often stay in their jobs for many years - if you compared it to people staying with companies for the same time I bet they would earn close to the same if they stayed in the one job. This article would make you think teachers start on $100,000

But ofcorse the inner child in everyone hold's a grudge against teachers - you accept that they are overpaid even though this article did not even provide the information required to draw a well researched conclusion - but the fact you can't do that is probably also the teachers fault - right?

This article also mentions declining grades as if they are the teachers fault - as if lack of disapline at home, kid's eating junk because parents throw money at them for lunch, lack of punishment a teacher can hand out don't have anything to do with it.

This world works on supply and demand - if you do not pay teacher's what they are worth they go somewhere that will, and then your kid's just end up with babysitters. You want them to have a good education you pay for it.
If teaching is so glamorous why are there not more teachers? Lower their pay - see what happens! they will go to countries that pay them what they deserve.

ATS DO YOUR RESEARCH

If I want to throw out wild accusations based purely on opinion like this article did I would say:

American's are not just considered stupid because of their educational system: They are considered stupid by western society because they eat crap, sit in front of a TV, get raised by nanys, get drugged up from the water & the medical industry and don't do any physical or mental exercise.... but maybe that is also the teacher's fault.
edit on 21-2-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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My observations indicate that both sides are wrong on this one. My reasoning is simple, unions will always want more money and the economy is in the tanks. Someone clearly needs to sit down with an open mind to work this out.

My solution is very simple, we build more schools and cut the budget for military spending. Teachers, now, deserve 100+k per year with how many students they teach, the workload, and they aren't very free to teach how they see fit. If you build more schools than there will be less students per class and that means less work for teachers which than they can't complain that they don't get paid enough money.

And the logic that some people are using that teachers deserve more money because they have to do research, mark papers, and etc...well no one told them to be a teacher. There are plenty of substitutes who would love to do it for a less pay and they will gladly do all the work without complain.

Teaching is an important job but teachers come a dime a dozen. Many people want to be teachers but there is not enough positions to actually become a full-time teacher. So for all those people who think teachers have a hard life...they don't get over yourselves. Firefighters have a tougher job and they make less a year than teachers do.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by Aristophrenia
 


Very well said.
Star for you!



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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Here's a thought to clarify the real goals: how much does Wisconsin spend locking up non-violent offenders?

How much does it cost the state to incacerate its citizens? In 2008 it cost $31,806 per prisoner, probably more today, with 21,110 inmates.

An honest person who governed would look at that and say perhaps we could find 5 or 10 per cent of the prisoners who are nonviolent, perhaps innocent (oh, come on, lots of people are jailed on shaky evidence), rehabbed...worthy of early release. Maybe 15-20 % if we looked hard.

So, potentially we might release between 1-4K prisoners at ~$32K per year per prisoner, or between $32-128 million per year. Why isn't that being looked at first?

Can we really afford to lock up everyone who smokes something we don't like, or behaves in a way some bluenoses a hundred years ago disapproved of?

Businesses scream that regulations strangle them and need to be removed, yet always want to layer yet another law on citizens' behavioral choices.

Winsonsin can save money by reviewing and removing the needless laws and regulations that hem in its populace and keep them from being as productive as they could be.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
My observations indicate that both sides are wrong on this one. My reasoning is simple, unions will always want more money and the economy is in the tanks. Someone clearly needs to sit down with an open mind to work this out.

The economy is in the tanks, but it has nothing to do with how much teachers are earning, it has to do with wall street CEO's taking home millions upon millions of dollars and the corrupt banking system which can produce money out of thin air by taking it from everyone elses pocket through inflation.


My solution is very simple, we build more schools and cut the budget for military spending. Teachers, now, deserve 100+k per year with how many students they teach, the workload, and they aren't very free to teach how they see fit. If you build more schools than there will be less students per class and that means less work for teachers which than they can't complain that they don't get paid enough money.

So you want to increase spending - on school's to save money... By lowering classroom numbers - that would also require more teachers - because the number of students hasnt changed just become more dispersed. So while you are paying them less you are creating even more need for teachers which would cost a lot more in the long run, the government's strat of making each teacher teach as many pupils as possible is the most cost efficient - but not the most education efficient.


And the logic that some people are using that teachers deserve more money because they have to do research, mark papers, and etc...well no one told them to be a teacher. There are plenty of substitutes who would love to do it for a less pay and they will gladly do all the work without complain.

Well they will likely get their chance if they cut teachers pays - there are plenty of other countries who will pay them what they are worth. Substitutes wouldnt know what a real full time teacher does unless they have done this previously because they just come in to babysit. Teacher's are often teachers for many years, I bet the average income of a teacher vs someone in a different profession with the same amount of outside work hours and the same amount of years experience earn's a similar wage - when they say teachers earn a average of $50 odd k plust bonus they don't mention that some teachers have been teaching 20 years.



Teaching is an important job but teachers come a dime a dozen.

This I would say is highly subjective to the area - if they are a dime a dozen they would not pay them so highly, they pay them what they need to to convince someone to take the job - if teaching is so glamorous why are we not all trying to be one?



Many people want to be teachers but there is not enough positions to actually become a full-time teacher. So for all those people who think teachers have a hard life...they don't get over yourselves. Firefighters have a tougher job and they make less a year than teachers do.


Is that right... care to provide stats - like these:

SOURCE HERE ( a bit outdated but still very accurate I am sure)

A historic turnover in the teaching profession is on the way. More than a million veteran teachers are nearing retirement. America will need two million new teachers in the next decade, and experts predict that half the teachers who will be in public school classrooms 10 years from now have not yet been hired.

The Search for Qualified Teachers

•Nationwide, some 2.2 million teachers will be needed in the next 10 years because of teacher attrition and retirement and increased student enrollment.

•By 2008, national public school enrollment will exceed 54 million, an increase of nearly 2 million children over today. Enrollment in elementary schools is expected to increase by 17 percent and in high schools by 26 percent.

•In high-poverty urban and rural districts alone, more than 700,000 new teachers will be needed in the next 10 years.

The average teacher in California, may not make enough in salary to purchase a house in most areas of the state. Most teachers in the more populated parts of California who are homeowners, are able to do this by combining earnings with that of a spouse. Urban area teachers may make the most, but have to compete with the higher costs of housing in most major cities. This means teachers seldom can be said to comfortably exist on their salaries.




According to the Occupational Employment Statistics Survey, there are approximately 2.3 million teachers working at the elementary and middle school level in the US in 2008. When census information includes pre-schools, high schools, special education teachers and college instructors, the number climbs to approximately 6.1 million teachers.

The total US population is more than 300 million. In estimated figures, this means that teachers comprise about 2% of the total population. There are about 76 million students enrolled in the country, representing a 1-to-12 ratio of teachers to students. This is rarely the ratio, however, since a fair share of jobs held by teachers may teach a smaller number of students. For example, a part-time college professor might teach only one class, or a special education teacher might teach only a handful of students.



It should be noted, however, that while the population of US students has doubled in the past few years, the population of US teachers has tripled. This leads some to suggest that teachers are too many. In fact, in some areas, it is extremely difficult to entice teachers to work.

According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), teachers are also primarily female. The BLS found that 97.8% of preschool and kindergarten teachers are women, while females represent 54.9% of teachers at secondary schools, 49.2% of post secondary schools, and 86% of special education teachers. Many attribute a greater share of female teachers to pay that is not enough in many parts of the country to support a family. Many female teachers do singly support a family on their salaries, however, though this remains challenging.

The average teacher in California, for example, may not make enough in salary to purchase a house in most areas of the state. Most teachers in the more populated parts of California who are homeowners, are able to do this by combining earnings with that of a spouse. Urban area teachers may make the most, but have to compete with the higher costs of housing in most major cities. This means teachers seldom can be said to comfortably exist on their salaries.
Data also shows that 9.3% of elementary and middle school teachers are black, and 7.1% are Hispanic. The Asian community is even less represented, with 2.4% of teachers at this grade level being Asian. These figures draw concern since they are not in keeping with the racial makeup of the United States. Schools that are predominantly Hispanic or black might be lucky to have one or two teachers who are from their culture, and thus represent role models for a community.

Concern for lack of adequate cultural representation is especially great in urban areas where minority children living in poverty are more at risk for criminal behavior. With fewer teacher role models who are of the same culture, the attempt to join gangs or simply lose interest in school is more prevalent. Like all people, children need connections, community, and a sense of belonging. In neighborhoods predominated by one race, teachers of the same race may help provide a sense of community, which teachers of a different race may not provide. There are noted exceptions. Yet many hope to encourage more minorities to join the legion of teachers so minorities have more representation in education.
SOURCE






edit on 21-2-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-2-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-2-2011 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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And another...Walker says the bargaining rights must be stripped from the unions because, if not, they will just prcipitate another crisis in a few years by asking for more money.

Let's dissect that little puppy:

1. Unions don't usually ask for more unless the pool is going up, when it is going down, they fight to keep what they have and minimize givebacks.

2. It follows that if the mere existence of a bargaining union would precipitate a crisis in a few years, one of these conditions obtains:

A. The state is still broke, meaning that the Governor and legislature failed to improve the economy, despite the givebacks and added costs the union members have stated the would accept, and the Governor's demands didn't change anything, and he's demanding more cuts and givebacks.

or

B. The state is doing well and the unions want to reap the rewards of their investment and sacrifice, and the Governor views that in itself as a crisis, that they can ask to negotiate. What does he fear about honest negotiation?

Seems to me he doesn't understand democracy. What he seems to have meant by running government like a business meant a dictatorship: I'm the boss, I set the rules, screw you if you don't like them.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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Like most overpaid government employees who expect a weeks wage for a days work I would sack the whole lot of them and advertise their jobs at half the rate. I reckon most would apply for their job again. They can't do anything else.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by intelinside451
Should someone who teaches 1st grade make more than the majority of us who perform highly skilled or physically intensive jobs?


I guess that depends on how far you think someone who performs such highly skilled or physically intensive jobs would get without a 1st grade education. How valuable do you think your first grade class was?

I should also comment, that I think the idea that we should only be compensated for our skill levels and not also the value of our jobs should change.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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It's getting a little old seeing the hundred thousand dollar figure for teachers salaries, so I did some research. These figure are from Wisconsin's Worknet. These positions require a bachelors degree minimum.

Wisconsin's Worknet

Statewide Wage Information for middle school teachers wages in Wisconsin from 2008
Entry level = $34,720
Average = $50,100
Experienced = $57,790


Statewide Wage Information for special Education Teachers, Middle School
Entry = $36,800
Average = $49,340
Experienced = $55,600

Decent salaries but not out of line. The average household income for Wisconsin is around $50,000/year, slightly higher for Dane county

Business Teachers, Post secondary, requires a doctoral degree.
Entry = $44,300
Average = $76,780
Experienced = $93,020

I did find some that made over $100,000, collage professors in Dane county (where Madison is located) that require a doctorate degree. Certainly not your average teacher and probably making much less then they could in the private sector.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by apacheman

A. The state is still broke, meaning that the Governor and legislature failed to improve the economy, despite the givebacks and added costs the union members have stated the would accept, and the Governor's demands didn't change anything, and he's demanding more cuts and givebacks.

or

B. The state is doing well and the unions want to reap the rewards of their investment and sacrifice, and the Governor views that in itself as a crisis, that they can ask to negotiate. What does he fear about honest negotiation?



The answer is A.

The State of Wisconsin is 50 billion dollars in the hole. And from the video, the cost of employing those teachers went up from $95,000 last year to $100,000 this year due to their compensation increases. Increases they have been getting all throughout this recession we've been having as everyone else in the state is buckling down and getting laid off.

Not to just blame the teachers either. It's all state employees behind this union and the misspending that has gone on for decades. A lot of people on this thread have the misconception that this is just a teacher's union who's been abusing the system for all these years.

Here is a classic example from our neighbor to the south on how out hand this situation is. This situation is not just for Illinois or Wisconsin but for every state...


www.myfoxchicago.com... rkers-payraises-20100706

40,000 Illinois State Workers To Get 14% Payraises

Updated: Wednesday, 07 Jul 2010, 1:10 PM CDT
Published : Tuesday, 06 Jul 2010, 10:23 PM CDT

By Mike Flannery,

Springfield, Ill. - More than 40,000 unionized state workers got a pay raise last Thursday, bringing to 7 percent the amount they're gotten since last year. These same state employees are in line for another 7 percent by next July 1, all at a cost of a half-billion tax dollars a year.

It's more than the virtually bankrupt state can afford, and some Republican lawmakers say the raises need to be rolled back

"I'm outraged," said State Senate Minority Leader Christine Radogno. "It's very difficult to buy this rhetoric that, 'We need to borrow, we need increased revenue,' when these kind of poor management decisions are going on."


edit on 21-2-2011 by intelinside451 because: spelling



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 07:39 PM
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How does this sound instead of increasing the amount teachers have to pay into their benefits?

detnews.com... 10355/1409/Michigan-orders-DPS-to-make-huge-cuts

Michigan orders DPS to make huge cuts
Bobb told to consolidate services, close half of schools to end deficit
Jennifer Chambers / The Detroit News

Lansing— Swift and severe changes are coming to Detroit Public Schools.

State education officials have ordered Robert Bobb to immediately implement a financial restructuring plan that balances the district's books by closing half of its schools, swelling high school class sizes to 60 students and consolidating operations.

From The Detroit News: detnews.com...



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by intelinside451
 


Ironic that the post directly above yours refutes everything you claim in clear concise facts.

OOOOOPS!!



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by backwherewestarted
 





... I disagree with the "philosophy" you have decided to latch on to to find a reason to validate your opinion.


Okay, Lets look at the situation from another angle.

You and several others are trying to convince us "tax payers" that the Unions and Teachers have the students best interests at heart Right??? AND you are trying to convince us that the public schools do a good job of educating students, Right???

S WHY isn't the teacher's Union and the teachers supporting, NAY DEMANDING that the parents have the RIGHT to take the tax money THEY paid and give it to the school of their choice in return for educating their child? If the parents pick a private school then the state pays the normal amount and the parents would pay the difference.

Since competition usually improves a product this should improve ALL the schools. It also means the elite would not send THEIR kids to a CLASSICAL SCHOOL like Phillips Andover, to be trained as leaders, while the rest of us get stuck sending our kids to public school to be train as good little worker bees.

Oh and how many students do you think would leave the public schools if given this option? 1%, 10% 25%, 50% 75% HMMmmm???
edit on 20-2-2011 by crimvelvet because: (no reason given)


Here is a perfect example of the asinine "logic" used by the anti-teacher people in this thread. I said nothing about unions, I was simply showing the facts of being a teacher and the money that is actually made, but you choose make things up to argue when you can't defeat the facts. It's pathetic and childish at best.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by AntiNWO
 





The difference here being that private schools are many times more innovative in dealing with troubled students than public schools. You can blame the government all you want for this, but the fact remains that private school competition encourages creativity in dealing with every kind of challenge that your fertile imagination can come up with.


Amen to that, I know of THREE guys who were so much trouble the public schools could not handle them so they were placed in private schools. All three did much better in the private schools and went on to college and a good life.

Public schools ignore students that are troubled or as was done to a neighbor's little girl, drug them out of their minds so they sit in class like zombies!

Ritalin is given to millions of children every year, with the amount growing. Psychiatry has convinced a majority of the public that up to 20% of our children are "mentally ill" and need these drugs to correct their "brain imbalances". Strangely, the behaviors the psychiatrists cite as evidence of the disease have been around as long as children have been getting into cookie jars...
www.sntp.net...


1) Perhaps the three guys you knew got a wake up call when they were pulled out of school with their friends. Perhaps getting away from those friends made the difference. Of course that is not your agenda, so you only see teachers being at fault.

2) You clearly have no clue when it comes to public schools. The job I currently have is working with those "troubled" kids. They get more one on one teaching and special attention then the non "troubled" students. As a matter of fact our grading period just ended and 80% of the "troubled" kids we have are being put back into regular classes because they are doing so well now. But, hey, the teachers are awful and the public schools ignore them.

P.S.- I am in a small district that does much less then every bigger district that I know about.

3) As I said earlier, if you don't walk a mile in a teachers shoes then you have no idea what you are talking about. Unfortunately many people think they "know" what is going on from simply reading some articles.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 08:59 PM
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To add a little perspective here are some of the salaries paid to the other government employees whose union won't be stripped of their rights:

www.salary.com...

Police Patrol Officer median: $51K/yr

Police Sergeant median: $64K/yr

Police Lieutenant range: $49-73K/yr plus:


Generous vacation, personal holiday, and other fringe benefits are also included.


wisc.jobs...

Those are salaries without bennies figured in.

Not picking on them or anything just pointing out that the average union cop in Milwaukee makes more than the average union teacher.

So how does Walker justify demanding cuts from other unions while not saying a word about the police union? If stripping the unions of their rights is so necessary there is no other choice, why leave the unions who supported him alone, unless there is a different motive?

Seems to me the differing treatments of the same kind of legal entity is prohibited by article one of the Wisconsin Constitution:


Equality; inherent rights.

SECTION 1. [As amended Nov. 1982 and April 1986] All people are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights; among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; to secure these rights, governments are instituted, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. [1979 J.R. 36, 1981 J.R. 29, vote Nov. 1982; 1983 J.R. 40, 1985 J.R. 21, vote April 1986]


legis.wisconsin.gov...

People can't be "equally free" if one group of government employees retains their bargaining rights while everyone else loses theirs. The money comes from the same place, after all: both are paid by the taxpayers.

Clearly what Walker is trying to do is unconstitutional, as well as stupid, but the guy obviously is looking to become the darling of the uber-right and build a base for a presidential run.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 
First of all don't assume. To make a salary anywhere near that of a teacher I work weekends, nights and Holidays. most of the people I know work some weekends. Second....you didn't do your homework so, like a teacher I must educate you. Instead of simply glancing at the calendar that I provided you should have actually looked at the key and seen where I came up with my numbers. So...counting weekends here I go.

From September 2010 to September 2011 there are 99 weekend days, 26 Holidays and 64 Vacation days whcih total 189 non-work days. In addition, every Wedensday is a half-day for "teacher development". Huh...that's funny, every working Joe I know has to educate themselves off the clock at weekend seminars and night classes. So 35 Wedenesday's equal another 17.5 days of non-teaching. Now you would think since they work less than half the year they would be willing to stay a few nights to benefit the working parents and hold parent/teacher conferences in the evening but no...parent/teacher conferences are held during class time which equals another 8 half-days a year or 4 days of non-teaching.

you would think with half the year off the teachers would schedule their dental exams and physicals in their abundant off time but no again. I know for a fact that many of the teachers take "personal days" or "sick days" to attend to their personal business. becasue of my awkward work schedule I am off during the day a lot becasue I work nights. I have seen more than one teacher at the mall or a restaurant in the middle of the day. All of this adds to the school budget becasue they have to hire substitute teachers to cover those days.

I hope my numbers based of off their own calendar clears up any misconception you have that teachers WORK 9 1/2 months of the year. Do the math....they physically work less than six months of the year and make a full time salary.



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