Religion

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
Oh, Christ brought it did he? Haha...both the new and old testament have been so heavily modified and incorrectly translated that there's no point relying on any of it. Once parts of it become twisted, there's no way to tell which parts have been manipulated by men to push certain ridiculous agendas, and which may have truly been inspired by God (if real). If only I had a dollar for every Christian I've seen reject the bible and mold their own set of beliefs based on what they feel was true and right within the bible. And that to me is simply relying on your inner truth and spiritual values to guide your soul in the right direction. It's all inside of YOU, throw the bible away and follow what you truly believe. I need no God to be a person of true honor and integrity. What about you?

God is within you. If you are a man of true honor and integrity then you honor the father that is within you. You do not need me to teach you this. You do not need a Bible to teach you this. The Master is within.

But, this was not the matter up for debate. I am here to advocate for Christ. So, if you have evidence that Christ did any of the atrocities laid at his feet in this thread and others, that is what I am here to defend.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by mikesk8s247

This is rude because you are insulting religions and assuming false attributes.

No, they were in fact deadly serious questions with extreme relevance to this discussion, which you clearly fail to see.

reply to post by IAMIAM

God is within you. If you are a man of true honor and integrity then you honor the father that is within you.

Yeah, well I will acknowledge such an entity when and if such a thing were to make it's presence known to me. Thus far, nothing of the such has happened, and I see no need to honor something I can't even comprehend, yet connect with. Furthermore, I feel it highly doubtful such an entity would even desire humans to acknowledge and honor his creations, as though he were seeking stars and flags for his great work. Yeah...there's just nothing about this whole thing that resonates with me, if it works for you, good luck with it.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
Yeah, well I will acknowledge such an entity when and if such a thing were to make it's presence known to me. Thus far, nothing of the such has happened, and I see no need to honor something I can't even comprehend, yet connect with.

Really? You are not connected with God?

Curious!?

Answer me this then my friend. Where do your thoughts come from. Where are they born within your mind? Where does every desire within you emanate from?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


My thoughts and desires come from my own consciousness IMO. Our brains are organic sentience generating "machines". It's the same concept involved with creating true artificial intelligence, thinking machines. In order to achieve that we need to design powerful super-computers of extremely small sizes. But I believe we will one day create thinking machines, sentient robots if you will. I believe quantum physics and chaos theory will play a large role in our understanding of consciousness. But I believe it can and will be understood in time. Also, my thoughts and feelings are directly related to being of the homo sapien species, if I were a grey alien for instance, my thoughts and desires would likely differ to an extreme degree, because my brain would have a very different architecture,, thus leading to the logical conclusion thoughts are likely depended on the machine from which they are produced.

EDIT: And you have previously asked that question before on another thread, did you not read my answer:

Well since I am my own sentient being and apparently have free will just like you, my thoughts are generated from the heart of my consciousness/soul, which is housed in the brain, probably strongly linked to the pineal gland. Whether my soul can exist without the housing of my brain is another question all together. But I don't believe my thoughts are Gods thoughts, though if God exists he has surely though every though I've had and ever will have.

reply to post by bdb818888

He asked me how many people have died in the name of the Lord ? I told him probably millions have died in his name , then he asked me how many people have died in the name of Satan ? I told him I've never heard of anyone who has died in the name of Satan , Then he asked me , who's looks like the bad guy in this situation ?

That´s a nice way to put the dilemma. But your friend forgot to tell you an important Historical fact, about atheism. Does your friend knows that persons like Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong etc. produced the kind of mass slaughter that no Inquisitor could possibly match? Does your friend knows that collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100million people? Does your friend knows that, the indisputable fact is, that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in the past few decades?

See, I can go also on those lines as your friend does. In my opinion it´s stupid to go with such arguments. The truth is that "Humans" are behind those mass murders and not God.
It’s time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious belief has been the greatest
source of human conflict and violence. Humans, is the real force behind the mass
murders of history, and not God.

Everyday I struggle with my Christian beliefs , but I pray everyday to God to help me with these pressing issues .

Do not worry, it´s a good sign. It´s a sign to show of what is your faith made of. Just be strong with your beliefs.


Peace

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
My thoughts and desires come from my own consciousness IMO.

Exactly. What is consciousness?

Is your consciousness better than mine?

This is the spirit. Spirit, consciousness, God are all just words. The meaning behind those words are the great mystery of who we are.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
Our brains are organic sentience generating "machines".

Are you sure the brain generates the sentience or does the sentience generate the brain?
Does the sperm not have a snetience that guides it in pursuit of the egg? Does their union not set off a chain reaction of dividing and multiplying which creates all the flesh that encompasses your sentience?

Originally posted by WhizPhizIt's the same concept involved with creating true artificial intelligence, thinking machines. In order to achieve that we need to design powerful super-computers of extremely small sizes. But I believe we will one day create thinking machines, sentient robots if you will. I believe quantum physics and chaos theory will play a large role in our understanding of consciousness. But I believe it can and will be understood in time. Also, my thoughts and feelings are directly related to being of the homo sapien species, if I were a grey alien for instance, my thoughts and desires would likely differ to an extreme degree, because my brain would have a very different architecture,, thus leading to the logical conclusion thoughts are likely depended on the machine from which they are produced.

Would we have the desire to create if we were not created in the image of the creator?

EDIT: And you have previously asked that question before, did you not read my answer:

Well since I am my own sentient being and apparently have free will just like you, my thoughts are generated from the heart of my consciousness/soul, which is housed in the brain, probably strongly linked to the pineal gland. Whether my soul can exist without the housing of my brain is another question all together. But I don't believe my thoughts are Gods thoughts, though if God exists he has surely though every though I've had and ever will have.

God is just a word my friend. We are arguing over semantics.

Your consciousness is an image of the creator of all. It is as valid as anyone elses. It yearns to express itself freely, to be loved, and to love in return. The only way we can stop oppressing each others desire to express our consciousness is to learn to love each expression equally. If you try to suppress mine, I will only try to suppress yours in return. Someone must break this cycle. I will love your expression, even if you do not love mine. Christ's teachings in a nutshell.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

Does the sperm not have a snetience that guides it in pursuit of the egg? Does their union not set off a chain reaction of dividing and multiplying which creates all the flesh that encompasses your sentience?

Does an ant have sentience? Does a flea? What about a white blood cell? They can all carry out structured tasks, but does that really mean they are self aware? No, it doesn't. I can program a robot to fly like a bird, or to swim like a fish, and I can program them to do all sorts of seemingly "intelligent" stuff. But that doesn't mean they have their own thoughts or desires. They are simply doing what their programming is instructing them to do. Even God makes a clear distinction between lesser beasts, and humans. A sperm reaches the egg because it's DNA programming tells it to, it's not like I'm committing mass-genocide each time I wipe away the "mess" after masturbating. But that's not to say some animals on Earth don't have a degree of self-awareness, such as Dolphins and Elephants.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
Does an ant have sentience? Does a flea? What about a white blood cell? They can all carry out structured tasks, but does that really mean they are self aware?

Yes, yes, and yes. They all have sentience for the are all part of the sentient universe. They have specific functions that they do, they are not as sentient as we are for they are not molded after the sentience that is all. They do have some degree of sentience or else they would do nothing.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
No, it doesn't. I can program a robot to fly like a bird, or to swim like a fish, and I can program them to do all sorts of seemingly "intelligent" stuff. But that doesn't mean they have their own thoughts or desires. They are simply doing what their programming is instructing them to do. Even God makes a clear distinction between lesser beasts, and humans. A sperm reaches the egg because it's DNA programming tells it to, it's not like I'm committing mass-genocide each time I wipe away the "mess" after masturbating. But that's not to say some animals on Earth don't have a degree of self-awareness, such as Dolphins and Elephants.

All these things you are talking about here are a diversion from the discussion.

Is your consciousness of more value than mine. This is the level that we are on. All this other stuff are things we have not yet answered definitively. That is all still part of our journey. All we are discussing is Christ's teachings.

So, is your consciousness more worthy than mine?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

All these things you are talking about here are a diversion from the discussion.

No they are not, they are directly connected to this discussion, if you fail to see that, you've failed to truly understand what I was saying. Answer me this question: does a sophisticated robot have sentience?

So, is your consciousness more worthy than mine?

This has nothing to do with the "worthiness" of different types of consciousness. All humans brains are generally designed with the same basic structure, and no one sentient consciousness is more "worthy" than another, each have a different perspective and something of value to contribute. However, there is a clear difference between a human brain and that of a simple insect, and that's the simple fact that an insect has a very simplistic brain that acts only as a CPU would in a computer, it isn't a generator of sentience. A stick or rock isn't sentient for a simple reason - it doesn't have a brain or any sensory equipment. Now if you were to give a rock some legs and some eyes, and a simple brain, like that of a fly, it STILL wouldn't be sentient just because you gave it a brain and the ability to "see" the world. You need a brain with a certain degree of complexity, with the ability to generate self-awareness in the being. I can make a robot with a very complex "brain", and I can put some cameras and wheels on it also. But until I can create a super-computer capable of generating it's own thoughts, I haven't created a sentient being.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
No they are not, they are directly connected to this discussion, if you fail to see that, you've failed to truly understand what I was saying. Answer me this question: does a sophisticated robot have sentience?

Christ did not teach about robots. His lessons had to do with how my consciousness relates with your consciousness. Nothing else in this world has anything to do with what Christ taught.

This has nothing to do with the "worthiness" of different types of consciousness. All humans brains are generally designed with the same basic structure, and no one sentient consciousness is more "worthy" than another, each have a different perspective and something of value to contribute.

Preach the gospel my friend! Christ could not have said this better himself if he walked the earth today.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

Christ did not teach about robots.

I'm simply using robots as a good way to explain the concept I'm trying to get across. After all, our physical bodies are organic machines. Some species are a lot less complex than others, some so simple they lack the ability to generate their own thoughts, just like a rock has no thoughts due to it's simplicity. At least try to consider what I'm saying, and point out the faults properly. Not everything is sentient simply because it has DNA, or is made of "flesh and bones".

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Christ did not teach about robots.

I'm simply using robots as a good way to explain the concept I'm trying to get across. After all, our physical bodies are organic machines. Some species are a lot less complex than others, some so simple they lack the ability to generate their own thoughts, just like a rock has no thoughts due to it's simplicity. At least try to consider what I'm saying, and point out the faults properly. Not everything is sentient simply because it has DNA, or is made of "flesh and bones".

Nothing else matters my friend. The only thing Christ taught was how I should treat you. Your consciousness is as valid as mine. Therefore I should love you as I would love myself. Then both of our consciousnesses will have a better experience here.

Nothing else is within the scope of Christs teachings. He did not teach about the beginning. He did not teach how the world was created. He did not teach about planets and stars. He did not teach about anything but how you and I should act to each other. That is all.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


But doesn't the bible teach that we have domain over animals? And wouldn't that hinge on the fact that animal consciousness is less "worthy" of equal treatment in some way? In the way that they can't experience self-awareness or emotions? That's how it would seem to me.

Originally posted by WhizPhiz
But doesn't the bible teach that we have domain over animals? And wouldn't that hinge on the fact that animal consciousness is less "worthy" of equal treatment in some way? In the way that they can't experience self-awareness or emotions? That's how it would seem to me.

We have domain over them yes. Does that mean they are less worthy, absolutely not. It means we have a duty to look after and care for them. It means we are to help them in ways that they cannot help themselves. It means that we are bound as their caretakers. Can we eat them? We can, but look at the repercusions of doing so. We have just about depleted our fish stocks, the industrial farming going on is putting animals in a life of abject misery, and the rest of the world starves as we die of obesity.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM
You know ,it's guys like you that help me keep my faith in the Lord strong , God has blessed you with true wisdom and a kind heart .

reply to post by Seed76
Thanks for the Info , I didn't know that about these atheist tyrants that you speak of , I wish I had that info when I was having the conversation with my atheist friend.

reply to post by IAMIAM

We have domain over them yes. Does that mean they are less worthy, absolutely not.

I didn't mean "less worthy" in the sense that they deserve to be treated like crap, I meant they are less capable of actually comprehending pain and fear, thus it makes it ok for us to eat them. They are "less worthy" in the sense they are a simple type of entity lacking the ability to think and feel. We have domain over them simply for this reason alone. If they were indeed sentient beings, they would be our equals and would need to be respected as intelligent emotive entities. But they aren't, and God even says so.

Can we eat them? We can, but look at the repercusions of doing so. We have just about depleted our fish stocks, the industrial farming going on is putting animals in a life of abject misery, and the rest of the world starves as we die of obesity.

The problem isn't us eating them at all, the problem is SO MANY of us eating other species. Nature is about balance, and we don't give a rats ass about that balance, we take what we want when we want it, without the slightest thought about future repercussions. If there were less humans on this Earth, and we truly respected other life on this planet, and didn't waste our food or eat like glutenous pigs, there wouldn't be a problem would there.

Originally posted by bdb818888
You know ,it's guys like you that help me keep my faith in the Lord strong , God has blessed you with true wisdom and a kind heart .

I am sorry my friend, but I have said nothing wise here in this thread. The wisdom came from within the Brother who I was conversing with. He spoke the truth that we are all equally worthy from his own heart and his own mind. He is the wiseman in this thread.

My blessing was being present to partake of it.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by bdb818888

I didn't know that about these atheist tyrants that you speak of

Why don't you ask for a source for those "facts", because I doubt you'll get much.