Could This Be Proof Of Maya Predictions And New Way To Predict The Next Baktun?

Originally posted by coolhanddan
reply to post by stereologist

 

Without collecting data and analyzing it really what are you arguing? You have not facts either, nothing to prove my reasoning is wrong. Personally, I agree with you in some ways I do not believe a calendar can predict future events, but I am following every avenue because I do not like to assume.

to Assume = making an ASS out of U and ME

I think you're mistaken here. The key to understanding the Mayan mind-set is to understand how they viewed the world, and they saw it as a sequence of repeating events, in an unending circular movement that is destined to repeat itself. Even modern historians will tell you 'History repeats itself', and so it is... at least for me, in most things I have observed in my life time.

Their astronomical prowess is remarkable. Incredible even. Their long count clock was only matched recently by our own atomic versions. But how could that be? How could such an ancient, geographically remote people have such incredibly accurate astronomical knowledge, and how could they possibly have acquired such an accurate method of plotting time...? [And it's believed they acquired this long count clock from the Aztec, who inturn inherited from the much older Olmec.] It's fascinating, and I don't care what that failed rock musician cum astronomer/physicist/cosmologist Brian Cox says.

reply to post by chocise


surely Mr brian cox is more qualified than 90% of the people on ATS including you and me just because you dont like the guy you cant rule his thoughts out and the video you posted is an out take so for the people who dont know him hes very knowledgeable and respected highly even though chocise has just made him look a right p***s. check him out on youtube.

Originally posted by simples
reply to post by chocise

 

surely Mr brian cox is more qualified than 90% of the people on ATS including you and me

Haha apparently not when it comes to the maya.

By the looks of that video he should stick to physics.

reply to post by polarwarrior


did you not just read my last post all the way through?

look him up check his background out.

that vid is an out take, its never been aired on tv.

reply to post by simples


Oh I like the guy, doesn't mean I have to agree with him thou'. I'm amazed he can't even recognize their [Mayan] accomplishments in astronomy... & he's an astronomer! Nor do I like his preference for 'the Standard Model' in particle physics... I'm with Einstein and Schrödinger there.

reply to post by chocise


i know how you can really prove a point with the maya knowing there stars, you will have to do some researching but the mayans new of a a star in the orion constellation where 1 of there gods came from HOWEVER this star cannot be seen by the naked eye and the star is actually right where they say it is, its real, how the f**k

reply to post by simples


I'm not sure about that, although I read it was an Egyptian belief.

They knew about procession, and they knew how to accommodate a 355 day solar year. They were pretty well clued up. That Cox ridicules them is insulting. As per my last post, and adding to it, he really knows FA.

reply to post by coolhanddan

Claiming that modern Mayans are able to provide information on the ancient Mayans better than a scholar regardless of heritage is in my humble opinion a racist comment.

This sort of thinking is more common than people want to admit. Maybe you think it is okay to state that the statement of Mayans about the ancient Maya has credibility. I don't. I don't think being of French heritage lends more support to a person discussing French history. For some reason people don't see the same racist attitude when saying that having Hopi or Mayan ancestors makes their statements valid.

It certainly isn't name calling to bring this issue to light. An attempt to stifle such commentary by calling it sad or uncivil isn't going to fly.

If you think that pointing out that you made a mistake by inadvertently making a racist comment is a problem then you might want to explore why you made such a comment. Your local community college probably can help you work on that issue.

I listed PhD’s, and Mayan Elder

Here again you express a racist attitude by claiming that someone with a particular ancestry has knowledge in the field. Where are their credentials? That is what counts, not who their ancestors were.

So let's cross off all of the people who's race is being used. That leaves the PhDs.

Anthony F. Aveni, Colgate Professor of Astronomy and Anthropology

Aveni thinks that the 2012 claims are malarkey.
Colgate professor denounces 2012 apocalypse legend

Tadeja Jere Lazanski - an associate professor University of Primorska, Education Management
Jere Lazanski Tadeja

Research Interest
Tourism animation, hotel animation, cultural tourism, leisure organisation, special events,
tourism, culture

Hmmm. Not an archaeologist or someone that studies the ancient Maya.

Carl Johan Calleman - holds a Ph. D in toxicology from the University of Stockholm.
Hmmm. Not a background in archaeology. You pointed out the same.

Gerardo Aldana, associate professor at the Univ. of California at Santa Barbara
2012 Prophecy, Mayan Calendar Correlation Questioned

Aldana's findings challenge the accepted Gregorian dates of all Classic Mayan historical events, as well as the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it 2012 prophecies.

Ooops. Seems that 2 of the people you listed say 2012 is hogwash.

So let's go to people that actually have a background in the Mayans. Aveni is one of them and he says that the 2012 claims are wrong. Aldana disagrees with the 2012 claims. He even disagrees with the GMT correlation.

In addition to Aveni and Aldana I add Johan Normark.
2012: How to spot a prophet’s Maya hoax – designing a personal cosmology

Other scholars with backgrounds in the Maya state the following:
Long Count Calendar

Despite the publicity generated by the 2012 date, Susan Milbrath, curator of Latin American Art and Archaeology at the Florida Museum of Natural History, stated that "We have no record or knowledge that [the Maya] would think the world would come to an end" in 2012. "For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Florida. To render December 21, 2012, as a doomsday event or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in." "There will be another cycle," says E. Wyllys Andrews V, director of the Tulane University Middle American Research Institute (MARI). "We know the Maya thought there was one before this, and that implies they were comfortable with the idea of another one after this."

So yeah I have to say that my claim that this is nothing more than frivolous writings by New Age authors is correct.

been in constant unrest for decades, not true…

Thank you for showing what I said, because I did not say "constant." Is that your effort to discredit what I stated? Well it fails.

reply to post by coolhanddan

Since we "theorize” the Mayan "predicted" "change" and "conscience awaking” through all their works from calendars to whatever floats your boat

This is just unfounded speculation. Where in ancient Mayan writings does it make such a statement?

The One Reed is "Ce Acatal". The person making this link of ships and butterflies is Barrios. This is not the main point of the GMT correlation. The main link is the fall of cities during the conquest. Documents were kept knowing the dates of these events in both calendars. The question is whether or not the documents reflect accurate information.

What Barrios has done is to attempt to show that the Mayans made a prophecy that came true. He is not trying to support the GMT correlation so much as he is trying to support his 2012 claims.

There are a lot of claims of Mayan astronomy floating around. Let's consider them.

Their long count clock was only matched recently by our own atomic versions.

I don't believe it was their long count which showed the accuracy issue. The Mayans had a day count that lasted thousands of years. In the early 1900s it was pointed out that this gave a mean length of the year slightly more accurate than the Gregorian calendar. When the Gregorian calendar was implemented and later modified it was known at that time that the calendar could have been improved. The added complexity was deemed unnecessary and we have a calendar that is accurate and not too complex.

And it's believed they acquired this long count clock from the Aztec, who inturn inherited from the much older Olmec.

The Mayans got their info from the Olmecs. The Aztecs appeared in the 6th century. The Mayans appear around the 10th century BC.

I'm amazed he can't even recognize their [Mayan] accomplishments in astronomy

The information on Mayan astronomy is incomplete at best. No tables for Jupiter or Mercury or Saturn have been found. Venus and Mars tables are known, but not these other planets. It is not likely that they did not recognize the existence of these other planets. We just have not located the tables.

They knew about procession

It is my understanding that the Mayans knew that their astronomical records were "wrong" after a century or so. I do not believe that they ever figured out why their records continued to go "wrong" over time. The issue was precession. The cause appeared to elude them.

reply to post by stereologist


Stereologist,

A little background for you since you still insist on calling me a racist and derailing this thread.
Maya Elders are ceremonial priest or spiritual guides for many people across the world; in fact Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez Oxlaj is a 13th Generation Mayan Elder and present head of the Guatemalan Council of 440 Elders.
I use his advice because he is elected by his people as the wisest elder; he has studied more than you or I about the Mayan culture. Not to include these leaders of the subject in this post is insulting to them and incomplete in my view. A simple analogy here, if I were to research Christianity, and talk to a priest or pastor, I would have more information to complete a data set to make a theory, would you call it racist that I did this?

Are you calling me racist due to accepting his perspective of Mayan history, calendars’, and culture? Would you accept his ideas if he were a PhD? Should we discount anything anyone says unless they are a PhD? Using that logic, do you have A PhD, because I do not so what do we do now, are we not to have opinions? If you have not noticed I am not following mainstream ideas, to keep this argument going is just meaningless and counterproductive to what I am trying to achieve, how about you, is this productive for you?

Wiki racism to figure out what you want to call me:

“Racism is the belief that the genetic factors which constitute race, ethnicity, or nationality are a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that ethnic differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Racism's effects are called "racial discrimination." In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or receive preferential treatment.”

en.wikipedia.org...

So your line of thought is that including people that practice and use Mayan culture in my research is racist because of what?

Really the question is why you want to discount this man’s opinion, now, discounting one’s opinion because of race is the definition of racism so what is your excuse.

I use his ideas because he is over some 440 elders that practice the same way, and what is your reason to discount him,

“Here again you express a racist attitude by claiming that someone with a particular ancestry has knowledge in the field. Where are their credentials? That is what counts, not who their ancestors were.
So let's cross off all of the people who's race is being used.” Sterologist

So you are using race solely to discount his ideas, now really do we need to go into this topic more or are you insistent on derailing this thread…..

reply to post by coolhanddan


Let me start by pointing out the only person calling you a racist is yourself. I never said you were a racist. I stated that I thought your comment was racist. Quite different.

I use his advice because he is elected by his people as the wisest elder; he has studied more than you or I about the Mayan culture. Not to include these leaders of the subject in this post is insulting to them and incomplete in my view.

So where are the credentials on studies of the ancient Mayans? You are relying on heritage to add support to a claim. That is my objection.

A simple analogy here, if I were to research Christianity, and talk to a priest or pastor, I would have more information to complete a data set to make a theory, would you call it racist that I did this?

Of course not, but if you stated that someone knew more about Christianity because they were descended from people living in Bethlehem I would say that it had become a racist comment.

I am looking for evidence. The heritage of the individual is not germaine. I am looking past the race issue. I am crossing off names that have no weight other than ancestry. The names are important if they have credentials beyond their ancestry.

I find it interesting when people use racism in what they think is a positive manner that they pretend its not racism.

The Maya didn't predict anything. The calendar doesn't even end in 2012 it restarts. New cycle...In fact anyone associated with the Maya have been doing damage control over this stupid misinterpretation for years.

reply to post by stereologist


"Claiming that modern Mayans are able to provide information on the ancient Mayans better than a scholar regardless of heritage is in my humble opinion a racist comment. " You

"" Me

Again why do you wish to go on? Seriously Stereologist give it up already your basic premise that I made a racist comment is bunk. I am happy you can humbly say it as well since you are being so sincere and all. When did I write what you said, never. Re-read my posts please. Thank you for adding supporting evidence to my logic of thinking, just the confusion of when to begin and end the Long Count is enough to keep looking at this angle. I am however over this topic you want to hash out on my post, please make your own and I will respond, thank you.

I know some of you would like PhD to explain everything to you but for 10 minutes please take the time and understand the Mayan.

This is the only place I can find this posted now, this link tells of the predictions and where they come from:

“The Seven Maya Prophecies are a body of prophecies passed down from generation to generation and shared by all the 33 existing Maya tribes of Guatemala, from Quiche to Tz'utujil to Q’anjobal, as well as by the Maya of Oaxaca and Chiapas, Mexico. At least three stone monuments and one of the Maya codices support the prophecies in hieroglyphs and pictures.”

www.atitlansol.com...
There are many groups today like The Grand Maya Itza Council, National Mayan Council of Elders of Guatemala, High Mayan Council all claiming correct interpretations and spiritual leadership and more I am sure I am missing many. The point is that these people follow their own religion below:

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

They believe in this:

en.wikipedia.org...
www.mesoweb.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.mayaweb.nl...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...'atun

As practiced here, here, here, and here

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

If they all think something is happening at this time the long count calendar resets, some say it is a build up to an apex or some as a break down to destruction but either way it is civil unrest I am witnessing across the world and I am trying to link the two to see if this could be a better way to determine the exact time of the next baktun.

The more I think about this the more I believe it should be graphed by percentage of population of the world in protest to determine if this episode in our history is normal or abnormal on the Y axis and a time line on the X axis. I am trying to either include only revolution/rebellion/civil unrest or include all these protests about money and food with revolution/rebellion/civil unrest; these though are hard to track in time since there are so many disputes among people. This is becoming more complex by the thought.

reply to post by coolhanddan

“The Seven Maya Prophecies are a body of prophecies passed down from generation to generation and shared by all the 33 existing Maya tribes of Guatemala, from Quiche to Tz'utujil to Q’anjobal, as well as by the Maya of Oaxaca and Chiapas, Mexico. At least three stone monuments and one of the Maya codices support the prophecies in hieroglyphs and pictures.”

Chinese whispers spring to mind

reply to post by stereologist


the stuff you call new age is acutally ancient stuff..before the bible..yeah i went there!

reply to post by metalholic


Please provide an example.

reply to post by coolhanddan


This is from the first site you linked to.

Around the world, an unprecedented escalation in earthquakes and volcanic eruptions from Iceland to Indonesia, from Chile to California, continued to rattle the planet. Apparently, we don't have to wait for 2012—it's already happening.

This is wrong. According to the USGS earthquake numbers are not changing and in fact are recently down. Volcanic activity is not up either.
Earthquake myths

Although it may seem that we are having more earthquakes, earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or greater have remained fairly constant throughout this century and, according to our records, have actually seemed to decrease in recent years.

If you want to track volcanoes try this site
SI / USGS Weekly Volcanic Activity Report
Right now you can read about Santa Maria and Fuego in Guatemal and all of the other places around the world.

Little was said about the Maya prophecies publicly until a year ago,

I have to love this laughable claim of keeping the arcana hush hush.

The prophecies themselves are modern inventions that are laughable at best. The ancient Mayans did not know about the extent of the Earth or polar regions.

The next places to watch are Indonesia

Ooooohh. Picking Indonesia. That's always a winner since there are 12 active volcanoes in Indonesia on average. Krakatoa is always spewing. There is Bromo and don't forget Merapi on both Java and Sumatra.

Great. Modern inventions of low risk. Here are some more silly prophecies to add to the list that are sure ones.
1. forest fires will happen in 2011
2. there will be riots in a city in Normandy in 2011
3. many people will die in floods in 2011