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The Deniable Reality of 2012

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posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by InsaneInsurgent11
 


No you post a claim about Nostradamus and Merlin. There is no evidence that either of those claims point to 2012. The Merlin claim if true would have been satisfied over 100 years ago. Telegraphs were in operation before wireless 150 years ago.

TWZ is orchestrated to 2012 so that doesn't count. The I-Ching does not mention 2012. Mother Shipton does not appear to have even existed. The 2012 connection is more made up stuff connected to this fictional person.

Mother Shipton

The first publication of her prophecies, which did not appear until 1641, eighty years after her reported death, contained a number of mainly regional predictions, but only two prophetic verses – neither of which foretold the End of the World, despite widespread assumptions to that effect.



The Hopi predicted it too.

Not true. The Hopi made no 2012 predictions. Exactly what calendar were they using?

I love the link you used for the Hopi claim. It has the New Age mutilation of an Aztec symbol in the upper left corner. If you read down through the Hopi material you'll see that there are several intermixed issues, none of which are about 2012. At best there is a lot of shoehorning of events to fit the list of signs.

The main point is that this is unrelated to 2012 and to twist and bend that tradition into the 2012 fold is typical of the messy hoax 2012 has become.


And the Mayans did in fact predict 2012. I'll let someone else debate with you on that one, since it is widely known.

What did they predict? You list nothing. Did they predict that a particular date would come to pass. That's true. Did they predict anything about that date? No. Nothing. Nada.


The Web Bot predicted 2012 very plainly.

Webbot responds to internet rumors. Wow. It actually detected rumors? Webbot has a rather poor record of predictions.


There are just so many 2012 prophecies that I've probably left a few out, but those that I have listed so far are enough for me to know that something is going to happen. You'll see... Its not long now.

You seem to have shown us what 2012 is about. It's about making false claims and misrepresentations. The one thing you did get right was that it is all about the Mayans who made NO predictions.
\




posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by InsaneInsurgent11
reply to post by Lateralus51
 


If you think conspiracy theorists are automatically crazy, what are you doing on this site? Are you just here to harass us?


Stop taking things out of context and listen to what he said "This kid is a nut" in response to a SPECIFIC post, by pastafari give me strength half the problem with this site is it does not give a "critical thinking 101" something i must say the 2012 forum suffers from most that AND the lack of decorum and debate skills -.-.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Lateralus51
reply to post by InsaneInsurgent11
 


"I feel that something widespread and catastrophic is going to happen very soon," for all you NUTJOBS out there that think like this.

Let me explain something to you, i know its going to be hard to understand.

YOU are NOT special. YOU feel/sense nothing. you know how i know? because YOU are NOT special.

YOURE a human, im a human. all my friends are humans. my parents are human. none of them sense anything. YOURE NOT SPECIAL.



I know I'm not special. Hundreds and thousands of people all over the world are feeling this same thing. I hear that everywhere I go on the web, and I feel exactly the same way. At first, I thought I was special, but then I realized that anyone with a touch of intuition can feel it. You don't have to be a rare type of psychic, or anything like that. People can sense the chilly shadow of the events that loom. Some people are blind to it, of course, but that doesn't make those who aren't blind to it exceptionally special.

And I'm not religious. If God exists the way the Bible says he does, he's an authoritarian dictator. If he doesn't, then that's great. He probably does exist, but I'm not religious in any way. I don't think 2012 will be the actual apocalypse. It will be the beginning of the end. World War III, probably, along with natural disasters.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by rationaluser
 


The problem with this website is a bunch of hostility that comes out of nowhere. Why does everybody go around calling each other crazy? Why can't we discuss it civilly? The problem with the 2012 forums is that mean, nasty skeptics crash our parties. Its fine if you are a skeptic and want to express your point of view, but don't insult other people. You could politely call to attention the fact that there have been other predictions in the past that haven't come true, or say you haven't found enough evidence to convince you its true. I may have made a generalization, but I'm not the one with bad debate skills. I feel an obligation to defend my fellow believers when they are called crazy for expressing what they believe in. I may not believe the exact same thing as the OP does, but that doesn't make it okay for you to be like that.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by InsaneInsurgent11
 



We read between the lines on the prophecies of Nostradamus and Mother Shipton and intuitively feel that something is coming. We can see the signs all around us. Its happening before our eyes. Its fine if you disagree, but don't be so unnecessarily hostile. There are so many mean, intolerant people on this website who are determined to demean everybody else....

There is this intuitive sense people talk about often. It has to be tested once in a while.

Is something coming?
Are changes accelerating?
Are there more or less or the same floods, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, tsunamis, animal deaths, civil unrests, wars, bank failures, supernovas, or whatever?

These are testable issues. Using intuition does not work in answering these questions. Using the last few days of headlines does not answer these questions? Idle chit chat does not answer these questions.

When people make claims here that are suddenly and quickly shown to be false, the person making the claim should not be tempted to call the messenger mean or intolerant. They should say thanks and learn something.

I am glad to say that I was able to thank someone last night. I didn't think that bees navigated by the Earth's magnetic field and they pointed me to a peer-reviewed article showing 4 cases where bee behavior was affected by external magnetic fields. Not guidance, but close enough. I learned something. That is what is important.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by InsaneInsurgent11
 



Scientists have predicted major solar activity in 2012. There are many disasters long overdue. What I mean by that is that science has discovered that they happen at certain intervals, and they haven't happened yet when they should have already. Like magnetic field reversal, and lots of geological events... Even from a purely scientific and political perspective, something is going to happen very soon, like in the 2011-2013 range. To me, its obvious that the complete collapse of all the systems we know is imminent, prophecies or not. And with the prophecies to reinforce that hunch....its so obvious.


The solar maximum is in 2013, not 2012.
Disasters as in earthquakes and floods and volcanic eruptions do not happen on a fixed schedule. What is known is that there is a mean time between events. Say an event happens every 1000 years on average. That does not mean the events are spread out every 1000 years. Not at all. The geomagnetic reversal is not overdue. Quakes and eruptions are not overdue. There is no ticking clock.

There is no scientific perspective that something is going to happen. On the contrary there is no evidence that anything is going to happen. When you say that something is obvious I start to think that this is something with no evidence and you are trying to sneak this by us using the phrase it's obvious.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by InsaneInsurgent11
 



but then I realized that anyone with a touch of intuition can feel it.


Intuition is as likely to be wrong as not.

Use your intuition on this problem. If there was a car accident and you were a passenger could you be safely thrown clear of the accident? What does your intuition tell you?



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by InsaneInsurgent11
 



The problem with the 2012 forums is that mean, nasty skeptics crash our parties.

You're not the first to make some of these claims. You are one of many. It is often tiring to see the same parade of issues expressed. Besides this is not your party. This is an open forum. Not everyone is going to agree regardless of the evidence. Many close minded people do not want to know. They shun the clear evidence.

Skeptics are not nasty. Believers are not nasty. There are nasty people out there on all issues.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by InsaneInsurgent11
 


The problem with this website is a bunch of hostility that comes out of nowhere. Why does everybody go around calling each other crazy?


ummm...probably because you guys dont believe in facts or evidence.

You just blindly believe whatever you want to believe. Even though its not really logical.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by OneLife
 


I've kept this in a long time because of how hard it is to believe but,
A couple years ago after having 11 surgeries and on heavy pain killers I was on the way to one of my appointments and I look outside my car window and I guess it was only me seeing this but everything that we were passing from the rear of the car on was turning to black plants dieing and burning every species of animal running besides each other as fast as the car would drive. The ground 100 feet back was blasting high in the air behind us as if someone dropped a huge stone on the earth behind our car just far enough for us to keep driving and not be hit. Since than I call them Apocalyptic visions. Every once in a great while it use to be but now as time moves on it is almost every day I get visions of random cataclysmic events that are so god like and mind boggling that it would make anyone wonder what the # is going on. I mean pretty much all you have to do is research the internet for more than enough proof to make anyone believe what is about to happen. The way I began believing is just by watching and listening other people as I grew up kinda like keeping an eye on people seeing how they acted and certain reactions. Than I got older more interested kept researching and now I am one of the many in our world that can over see what is going on here. As far as the governments involvement that is just not right and if you don't know what I mean by governments involvement I mean the chemtrails they're spraying look up chem trail 2011 on youtube these are even discussed on the news channels and so is HAARP which can modify our weather it isn't all that hard of science really. look up haarp on youtube and don't just watch one video watch many to actually give your mind a chance to actually tell if it is true or false. Species dieing out, Volcano's bulging, murky skies from chemtrails, BP oil spill pollution, the weather over the past 20 years of my life the change from light storms to severe took change very rapidly and still is changing. God people all you gotta do is relook over your lives pretty much to see the big picture god wants you to see. There have been several earthquakes this year 2011 so far. The past couple 100's of years disease is out breaking. There are 6 billion people another billion to add onto that in 2020 if we made it that far. 6 billion people that is a lot... We're about to overflow the earth that already has no more space for more people and the population of course would never stop producing babies, now if you were a government yourself. You seen this problem and if it meant for many to die for some to live instead of all dieing my bet is the government would depopulate us with a few scenario's one being guns and nukes the other being biological. Seeing this finally in my head I thought wow what a world, what a government aren't we suppose to feel safe? Why is god letting this happen to us, I had many questions. I wish the government wasn't making this so hard on us, Fighting against us and not with us. They as in the "elites" of our country in my eyes in my visions they are the ones that burn in hell for eternity. So here you are looking at 2 cases opened at the same time the end of the world and the evil government that is in all control of us and no one sees it till it is to late. Open your eyes up people it really isn't that hard. Don't look to the government for answers you're the answer you just haven't opened your mind yet your still a sleep. over 75% of the world is sleeping and don't know it.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by benardo
 


So you are buying into internet rumors without considering their validity and this is because you were high on painkillers and had bad hallucinations. Did I get that right?



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


lol, yeah thats what i took from it...

depopulation conspiracy theories are the worst..



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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Look, regardless of WTF is going on. I'm seeing stars/comets or whatever you want to call it in the sky that I've never seen before. I live in the city where street lights are of abundance and tend to kill your full view of the stars. I'm seeing multiple bright stars, flashing, or red in color, and there is more than just one of these larger brighter stars. I don't need a telescope to see it, I know its there because it wasn't there last year, or the year before that etc. So I suggest looking up at the sky, because looking horizontally you can see no further then a few miles depending on whats in front of you, but by looking up vertically you can see millions of miles away. All the vision you need to survive...



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by benardo
 


I agree with you. I can see it happening and feel the rhythm...like a metronome getting faster and faster.

But I doubt the government will kill us all on purpose. That would have no strategic value, even if they were NWO conspirators. If they wanted to control population, they would either put something in our water to slowly make us sterile, or, even better for their purposes, they would set up a merit-based system where the best minds and best workers live and those who are stupid fall to the bottom of the system and die of starvation. They would want to keep two classes of people alive, aside from themselves. One would be a hard-working low class and one would be an intelligent middle class. They need smart people to make the system run efficiently and progress, but they would keep an eye on the middle class and do something about those whose intelligence was getting in the way of their submission.

I think 2012 will be more of an authoritarian takeover, coinciding with natural disasters, as you saw. I have apocalyptic dreams sometimes, kind of like your visions.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by KonquestAbySS
 


Umm....those sound like UFOs. Stars are not red and they don't flash. Stars are really high up in the sky, so if there were new ones, everyone would see them. UFOs hover lower, so it would be possible for just you and a few others to see one. Or they could be something else paranormal. I haven't seen any new stars lately. I did see a flashing red thing that stayed in one spot in the sky for a long time and then faded away. Then I found out a spaceship was launched from Florida that day. Its still a little weird though, because I was on the opposite side of the country when I saw it, and according to the news channels, it wasn't supposed to be visible from where I was.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


He's saying that he has these visions all the time and the first one just happened to be when he was on painkillers, and that there is a lot of evidence presented on the internet and all you have to do is look.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by InsaneInsurgent11
 




if you want to keep believing your fairy tale 2012 nonsense...go ahead

I just wouldnt go around telling people i have "visions"


But thats just me.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by InsaneInsurgent11
 



Scientists have predicted major solar activity in 2012. There are many disasters long overdue. What I mean by that is that science has discovered that they happen at certain intervals, and they haven't happened yet when they should have already. Like magnetic field reversal, and lots of geological events... Even from a purely scientific and political perspective, something is going to happen very soon, like in the 2011-2013 range. To me, its obvious that the complete collapse of all the systems we know is imminent, prophecies or not. And with the prophecies to reinforce that hunch....its so obvious.


The solar maximum is in 2013, not 2012.
Disasters as in earthquakes and floods and volcanic eruptions do not happen on a fixed schedule. What is known is that there is a mean time between events. Say an event happens every 1000 years on average. That does not mean the events are spread out every 1000 years. Not at all. The geomagnetic reversal is not overdue. Quakes and eruptions are not overdue. There is no ticking clock.

There is no scientific perspective that something is going to happen. On the contrary there is no evidence that anything is going to happen. When you say that something is obvious I start to think that this is something with no evidence and you are trying to sneak this by us using the phrase it's obvious.


I know you're trying to approach with a scientific mind and I'm not jumping in as a believer of what the OP said but merely quoting you to make a point that hopefully you understand.

You say "the solar maximum is in 2013, not 2012".

Then you say nothing is set in stone and it's hard to pinpoint an exact point in time for a natural event to occur.

Would that not then also stand for the NASA quoted 2013 for solar activity? Why does it have to be 2013? Why not 2012, 2016, 2023?

Know what I'm saying here?



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by curious7
 


The solar maximum is on a roughly 22 year cycle. As we get closer to that 22 year point scientists are able to make a more accurate prediction based on the activity of the sun. In 2004 the maximum was expected to take place in 2010 or 2011. However, as new data was received the date was pushed back in 2009 to most likely spring 2013. As of last year the expected activity matched up almost perfectly with the observed activity.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by OneLife
 


Interesting read albeit a little confusing.
I have stopped worrying about 2012 and more about 2011 through 2040. Each day I become less convinced of the possibility of a sudden ELE and more sure of a gradual decay of civilizations world wide. It is the weather and the animal die offs that strike alarm in my heart. And even then what can one really do? We don't really have too many SHTF predicting instruments. If yellowstone was set to blow tomorrow we wouldn't have a clue.



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