12 Things You Need to Know About the Uprising in Wisconsin

Interesting comments bashing the WI teachers... Wi is #2 in the nation in educational ranking. There are 5 states which have the same plan Walker is proposing... they are ranked #'s 45-50.

I'm wondering when people are going to wake up. These extreme choices of "left" and "right"... dem vs rep., religion vs science, rich vs poor, etc, etc... is all an illusion. I think deep down we all know that the TRUTH, the right way is somewhere in between. These illusions are brought on and fueled by the media... who owns the media and these other huge corporations...!? This is a conspiracy type site... you figure it out. While you are arguing over being a Republican or Democrat, or christian or jew, they're stealing your money, raping your daughters, making your poorer, fatter, sicker, and more afriad of your own shadow, not to mention thiers.

I hate to bring up this card because as a Christian Mystic/Gnostic, these guys have similar beliefs (supposedly) so I truly want to believe these "guys" are benevolent, but I keep coming back to them...

Shortly before or after the WI election, I did a search on Walker to see if he was a Mason. Now, I never saw if he was, but I did find an article where he was honored by them. Do masons honor non-masons? I'm pretty sure they don't since outsiders are "in the dark" or basically infidels.

Walker is being funded by the Koch bros... are they Masons... ?

About "Democrat" and "Republican", here's something intersting... look back at some of your most recent elections.
2004 - W (alleged Mason and Skull and Bones) vs. Kerry, (alleged Mason and Skull and Bones).
2000 - W (alleged Mason and Skull and Bones) vs. Gore (high level Freemason)
1996 - Clinton (Demolay member/sponsored by Masons) vs Bob Dole (high level Mason)
1992 - Bush Sr. (Skull/Bones and Mason) vs Clinton (Demolay)

Should I keep going? I can... Do they have an agenda? Well the lower members will tell you No, that's for sure, but here we are... as the world is headed for hell, these guys hold all the cards. They are the owners of the major corps and the media. They run BOTH political parties (as Obamas been caught doing masonic handshake). What's ironic is that the hard hitting members are in the Republican party. This party was formed out of the Anti-Masonic party, whom the christians started 150 years ago after the murder of Cpt William Morgan (yes THEE captian Morgan). Now, they have the very Christians who despised them in thier back pocket. They play the "Pro Life" card and get 90% of the christian vote as they know that's all they need to say for the blinded christians to get thier vote. Has any of those candidates ever done anything about abortion? No, not defunding planned parenthood (which wasn't any of those candidates), but actually abortion itself? No. Stop voting for these aholes... not that you have a choice as the media picks who you'll vote for anyways.

Originally posted by Koition

About "Democrat" and "Republican", here's something intersting... look back at some of your most recent elections.
2004 - W (alleged Mason and Skull and Bones) vs. Kerry, (alleged Mason and Skull and Bones).
2000 - W (alleged Mason and Skull and Bones) vs. Gore (high level Freemason)
1996 - Clinton (Demolay member/sponsored by Masons) vs Bob Dole (high level Mason)
1992 - Bush Sr. (Skull/Bones and Mason) vs Clinton (Demolay)

Where was that alluded to earlier in this thread? Hmmmm?

Every damned living president lined up behind Bush and Clinton pro NAFTA. We must keep that in mind. There is only one political party in this country. And the "party" is a frat run "kegger" and you're not getting in! - Hemisphere

Oh yeah, that was me. We get it! It is after all ATS. They're all in the same secret boys clubs. They all drank margaritas out of Geronimo's skull. And they're all distantly related. And on and on...

I think deep down we all know that the TRUTH, the right way is somewhere in between. - Koition

Agreed! And when the opportunity presents itself to bring something back to the center we must take advantage. This is the opportunity to have the public employees meet everyone else in the middle. They kick and scream as that has been their modus operandi for decades and it has served them well until now. Their hands have reached the bottom of our collective pocket. Their current hope is that if they shut down the system, even the school system, everyone will cave. "Oh heavens, the children will need to be cared for and educated by their parents!" Imagine that horror within a free society. That's where innovation has gone. Ground into assimilation in the public schools.

That the Republicans have offered this opportunity for the moment should not be a concern. They too can be controlled through the vote. The public school systems promote the illusion and belief in the two party system. Breaking up that monopoly on thinking and educational dollars is vital to future freedom from these scumbags and their "two ends against the middle" control. Where do these controlling scumbags, republican and democrat alike, send their own children for education? Those near the top of the pile never enter a public school. That should tell us something.

Sorry Hemisphere,

I didn't read the whole thread so I must've missed your post. But yeah, at least some people are denying ignorance!

I do have to correct something that may be misunderstood during my rant. I'm not some wacked Christian conspiracy "hypothosiser" spouting off that everythings the "devil". I am a researcher... a mystic... I have studied many things the Masons have and most of thier practices are misunderstood and are NOT evil. Masons are a hermetic group, a gnostic group which in some cases is the mother of Christianity before it was made into a business. Magic is not bad, it's the intentions behind the magic/ceremonies that can be dangerous.

Here's the problem... as you see on this site, masons defending thier craft to the end and from thier point of view, they really believe thier brotherhood is benevolent. I don't disagree for the most part. However, there are higher levels, maybe created by some members who have infultrated the masons over the years in attempts to make them look bad. Masons claim this isn't true, but there's info that suggests otherwise... especially the "test" to get to 33rd. Pike and Disney need to be researched. These two may have been the biggest Nazi scumbags our nation has ever seen. His movies contain subliminal messages which are designed after nazi brainwashing programs and Disney supported "project paperclip"... go look it up on youtube. Search subliminal messages in advertising and movies, not to mention Disney being a 33rd degree. I believe what many regular masons are saying when they defend thier practice, but even they are in the dark and Pike confirms this himself.

But here's the one strike I have against Masonry as a whole. If you hold "secrets"... secrets that can enlighten mankind, and make Earth a better place to live... then shouldn't this info be shared with the world so we can come togethe...r? Why keep us in the dark? Why threaten initiates with death if the secrets "aren't a big deal" (as some masons claim)...!? No matter what "good" they do, they aren't any better than Nasa and our own government lying to us and keeping us in the very same dark. You can't argue with that... I'm sorry.

reply to post by NoHierarchy

If we want to compare ourselves to "heaven" we MUST compare ourselves to very economically competitive/stable countries with higher levels of freedom, health, equality, quality of life, happiness, environmental standards, workers rights, vacation time, access to health-care/higher-education, etc. than even we have in the United States.

You are trying to perpetrate the same fraud most liberals/progressives fall back on; comparing a country with an ethnically and culturally diverse population of 320,000,000, to smaller, culturally-insular, nation-states, many of which have populations smaller than individual American states. You might as well compare apples with chickens.

What you suggest is a false proposition. There are no countries, of similar size to the U.S., that offer what we do in the constellation of variables you’ve listed.

Think of countries with populations greater than 150,000,000:
China, India, Indonesia, Brazil, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, and Russia.

Now, which of those, “comparables” would you use for your “example” or “standard?”

We MUST look towards countries like Germany, Canada, France, Norway, Sweden, Finland, etc.

Why? You cherry-pick to suit your own criteria without thinking whether those criteria even apply to the US. Do all the people of the US live in an area the size of Colorado, or have comparable populations or economies? Are you suggesting the E.U. is comparable to the U.S. of A.? Population differences notwithstanding, the EU member states range from among the richest, most insular, isolated of the entire planet, to some of the poorest and most corrupt.

I see propositions such as yours as an argument for greater states rights and against the massive federal control the evolution of which we have witnessed since the end of WWI.

When you consider the examples you’ve suggested, you will see that each has fashioned its own, unique solutions and economies to suit its individual situation. Even so, what one offers will not transfer to any other, or to the Continent as a whole.

Even as you spout this nonsense, one of the greatest points of dispute in the EU are the “itinerant patients.” Although, technically, each member state is to provide care to foreigners consistent with that of its own citizens, this is not often the case, and is often bitterly fought over. Some states have tools, staff or therapies others do not, but everyone wants to "share." The states object to the indiscriminate use of finite resources.

These are examples of SOCIAL DEMOCRACIES. They are essentially the MOST MATURE, intelligent, and beneficial governments on the planet thus far. And we really must look towards the most shining examples available.

Why? How can you extrapolate what a country with the population of Alabama or South Carolina (Norway ), or Minnesota (Finland, Denmark) can provide to a diverse population/economy nearly 100 times its size? Even if you lumped all of the Scandinavian countries together, their population is less than that of California, alone!

I suppose what you’d really advocate is that the U.S. be broken up so that each state can strive to be the “shining example” for its own people that you refer to. You’re about 250 years too late.

Countries like the Scandinavian countries have employed FANTASTIC levels of freedom/democracy with FANTASTIC workers rights/environmental laws, FANTASTIC economic stability and FANTASTIC benefits for its citizenry.

You left out the part about “on the back of foreign workers.” None of these states have an economy that functions on its own. All depend upon outside employers and imported labor to maintain the standards you tout. Find a more apt comparison.

Can this be applied and scaled up 100% to America? Of course not perfectly.

“Not perfectly?” Having acknowledged that your comparison is inapt, please provide your insight how a nation of shipbuilders or fishermen, or an auto manufacturers’ economy will scale-up to fit the entire U.S.

HOWEVER, there are ABSOLUTELY improvements we can make while looking to these countries as a guide.

Actually, I think many of your examples used US as a guide in restructuring after WWII.

We have NO excuses anymore... America is the only 1st world country without many of the humanitarian, economic, environmental, scientific, and socio-political advances of other 1st world countries.

Prove it. We provide more humanitarian aid than anyone. We have the strongest economy, despite the Socialist, Marxist and anarchist sentiments that try their hardest to destroy its foundations.

We lead the world in “green” initiatives and have just pledged to provide the large part of $100,000,000,000 to the “third world” for phony AGW initiatives.

We’ve been to the Marianas trench and the far side of the moon, no one cobbles together a better scientific community – we are the gold standard.

Despite all the whining about poor, or expensive health care, we field the greatest advances in treatment, diagnosis and rehabilitation in the world. Many of your “standards” limit or do not take advantage of our best tools, just to cut costs.

ALL of your examples have pretty much spent themselves into oblivion with programs they admit cannot be sustained on their own.

We are a strange mix of freedom/opportunity, the ILLUSION of freedom/opportunity, and extreme INVASIONS of freedom/opportunity. The future will change no matter what, it's our choice whether we foster/support/fight for REAL freedom/opportunity or let the illusions and fears combine into propaganda that ends up screwing over the slave class more than helping us.

And? How’s any of that different anywhere else? I guarantee that this applies to every one of your “standards.”

jw

reply to post by jdub297

My friend, I agree with everything you said. That being said, you left out a very important point. These people have money to burn because we built their economies. The American taxpayer should own a large part of their output. Only Finland ever repaid us IIRC. Additionally, we still carry the burden of Europe's defense. If they had to pay to protect themselves, they would have been swallowed be Russia decades ago.

reply to post by jdub297


Excellent points to say the least. I know you're up on what I'm about to mention jdub, bare with me.

The other thing that was not mentioned regarding those European socialist nations is that they are currently being overrun by immigrants from their southern borders. Their government programs are on the verge of collapse. We however are not paying close enough attention to that. Any bragging on these insular Edens is 25 years too late. There are plenty of articles describing the plight of these socialist nations on the Web, the most realistic and scathing are however opinion pieces and I would rather not give fuel to a pissing contest with a link. Anyone that would like to further promote the European style socialism, have at it. I have yet to hear of a flood of Americans to Europe.

Here in the US, we the middle class are being squeezed by the public sector with bloated benefits and pay scales from one side and largely non-contributing immigrants on the other. I think the Scandinavians are even further down this road. Every system, ours included, is dependent upon a stable slow-growth economy paired with gradual predictable population growth. We have at least one generation of young people, many college educated, without the opportunity to enter the workforce in any meaningful way. This combined with numbers equivalent of a second generation becoming permanently unemployed. My opinion is the outlook for our future is bleak without treatment of these two previously mentioned, cancerous pressure points. This, a bare minimum starting point.

reply to post by Koition

Koition, there's a lot of conspiracies lumped in there. I know of and agree with some of this. Are any secret societies influencing these Wisconsin events? I think it's likely. I think unions have many similarities to the secret societies with those on the lower levels not always knowing the true intents of those at the top. Obviously there are those on every side of this Wisconsin issue that belong to "secret societies" and often more than one. Our political parties could be called "secret societies" as we rarely know the true intent of those at the top.

We need to play the game here within the rules but knowing that we don't know all intentions. Like I alluded to earlier, just as soon as the Republicans prove once again of no practical use, s***-can them too. Fiscal conservative does not describe many of our elected officials. This governor is acting fiscally conservative on this issue at this critical time and that must either be supported or rejected by the people in Wisconsin. Their statehood is in the balance. I wonder how many people posting to this thread would seriously consider a move to California right now? What with the climate, the sights, the progressive society, the educational opportunities, the runaway spending, the looming tax hikes and crucial services cuts. "California, here I come!"

Are we being manipulated? Of course but we know our own intentions and can inject reason and pragmatism into the mix and that must prevail. Secret societies and unknown agendas be damned and dealt with when hard evidence and opportunity presents itself.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776

Kudos for probably the best refutation of such inane "comparisons." If any of these touted "examples had to pay their share of reconstruction and defense, they could never have achieved the "greatness" some idiots seem to think they created on their own, like magic.Your short, astute post deserves more stars and flags than this entire thread founded upon FALSE premises and retracted statements!

jw

reply to post by Hemisphere

Excellent point, well-worth "bearing out."

The other thing that was not mentioned regarding those European socialist nations is that they are currently being overrun by immigrants from their southern borders.

Can you imagine an American politician or government official telling the world that "multiculturalism has failed?"

Yet these socialist enclaves have seen their largesse sopped up like gravy by invading immigrants with no desire to contribute or assimilate; only to take as much advantage as possible while retaining their insular, separatist "nationalism."

Yet, people like the OP think it perfectly acceptable for a central government to open other people's pocket books and declare,"Hey! Look what I found, there's still more here."

Great post. 10 stars. Where have you been hiding?
(FANTASTIC later observations on secret societies/masons)
jw

Hemi -

"All the smaller conspiracies you hear about are part of a huge, unknown conspiracy." - Unknown

Who's menevolent and who's benevolent...? I'm still in the mist of it... Frankly, "both" sides (if two exist) are hoarding secrets and knowledge that can release us from this darkness. To hell with them both...

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
The issue I have with unionized govt workers is this. You work for the people that pay taxes. You do not work for a for profit corporation. When the taxpayer [that is me] runs out of money by losing his job, there is no one to pay taxes. Since no one can pay their fair share of taxes govt spending must be cut. Govt cuts spending by cutting pay and benefits to balance the budget.
reluctantpawn

The issue have with your logic is this:

As noted in the OP, Wisconsin was in a SURPLUS until he decided to give tax cuts to a bunch of rich people.

The 'taxpayer' (not just you by any measure) has not run out of money, the governor wants to give it away to the Koch brothers!

IT's amazing to me that people believe the lie that unions are to blame for budget issues, even while surplusses are given away to the wealthy.

Originally posted by Koition
Hemi -

"All the smaller conspiracies you hear about are part of a huge, unknown conspiracy." - Unknown

Who's menevolent and who's benevolent...? I'm still in the mist of it... Frankly, "both" sides (if two exist) are hoarding secrets and knowledge that can release us from this darkness. To hell with them both...

You know the truth my friend. You've alluded to it here "if two exist". There is just one party, one side. Plenty of evidence for this too. Look at NAFTA. First proposed by Bush I and put through under Clinton with all the other living creeps on board. HELLO WORLD! What was wrong with this picture?




"Gather 'round boys, I'm signing away the national sovereignty. Who's buyin' the drinks?"

"We'll just charge them to Reagan's tab!"

The huge political swings our nation has been put through dating back to (at least) Kennedy keep us off balance and divided as a people. What bigger conspiracy could we imagine than Obama and Bush were working in tandem? Like tag team wrestlers, one gouges us in the eye while the other kicks us in the jewels. And Obama bitches about the mess Bush left him. All part of the act. We know virtually nothing of Obama and anything we were told of Bush we didn't believe. Two men elected to the most prestigious office on the planet and we know nothing of substance about them.

One party my friend. How much have the Republicans done since November? Nada! They've distracted us. Pacified us. No wonder Obama yawned and went on vacation. Again this is why I stated that we should use the Republicans and discard them when they don't act on our behalf. Their feet should already be at the fire. Enough of us know now, we need to take advantage, start using the users. To hell with them all!

Exactly, I find these commercials for the "Bush/Clinton Haiti fund" hilarious. They make it seem like they're coming together for peace after years of fighting... bulls**t.

I found an interesting video on here the other day that explains exactly what I've been chasing recently... It's long, but worth watching.

amazingdiscoveries.tv...

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

 

Corporations own both parties (as many know here already). Clinton was the first corporate Dem elected in my lifetime. (A Blue Dog Democrat...which is really a Corporate Democrat) There are a few on both sides who aren't bought...but that's made completely irrelevant as they are severely outnumbered.

I keep watching domino after domino fall as the middle class continues to be destroyed. It's nearly endgame now.

Once the unions are gone it's over. maybe it has to happen for things to actually change. I don't know....but I don't think what is happening can be stopped.

A corporation has more rights than an American citizen....let alone a union worker or any other person in the workforce.

What amazed me....70,000 people can rally to fight for their standard of living and they get the middle finger...a corporation sends a few lobbyists and THEY GET WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT.

edit on 19-2-2011 by David9176 because: (no reason given)

Yes that's exactly the case with the million T Partiers who descended on DC and Pelosi et al still rammed that socialist hc down everyone's throats

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus



Yes that's exactly the case with the million T Partiers who descended on DC and Pelosi et al still rammed that socialist hc down everyone's throats

You seem lost. Can you explain what your post has to do with the topic at hand?

Or are you just desperately trying to deflect from damning information for your corporate bosses?

Reply to post by inkyminds

Wrong.

There was no surplus:

The confusion, it appears, stems from a section in Lang’s memo that —read on its own —does project a $121 million surplus in the state’s general fund as of June 30, 2011. But the remainder of the routine memo —consider it the fine print —outlines $258 million in unpaid bills or expected shortfalls in programs such as Medicaid services for the needy ($174 million alone), the public defender’s office and corrections. Additionally, the state owes Minnesota $58.7 million under a discontinued tax reciprocity deal. The result, by our math and Lang’s, is the $137 million.





Also, there is no tax cut for corporatims (such as Koch). There is a tax BREAK for new businesses moving into Wisconsin. Furthermore, that does not go into effect for two years, meaning that money is still in the coffers for two more years.




But don't let simple truth cloud your arguments.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Fascinating. So, in order to combat this projected budget shortfall, the Governor felt it best to cut taxes even more, further reducing the net income of the state in the hopes of creating potential future theoretical jobs to replace the ones he's actively destroying.

So, to re-cap, to reduce the state's 'debt', the governor is giving money away to out-of-state businesses in the hopes they will create jobs, that will bring more tax dollars into the state. Except taxes are bad.

Also, the governor wants to create future potential theoretical jobs that may very well be minimum wage to replace the TANGIBLE, current EXISTING well-paid middle class jobs.

Yeah, not double think there.

reply to post by Hemisphere


The middle class is not being squeezed by fellow members of the middle class, they are being squeezed by the corporate class:

motherjones.com... rica-chart-graph

A huge share of the nation's economic growth over the past 30 years has gone to the top one-hundredth of one percent, who now make an average of $27 million per household. The average income for the bottom 90 percent of us? $31,244.

Note: The 2007 data (the most current) doesn't reflect the impact of the housing market crash. In 2007, the bottom 60% of Americans had 65% of their net worth tied up in their homes. The top 1%, in contrast, had just 10%. The housing crisis has no doubt further swelled the share of total net worth held by the superrich.

A Harvard business prof and a behavioral economist recently asked more than 5,000 Americans how they thought wealth is distributed in the United States. Most thought that it’s more balanced than it actually is. Asked to choose their ideal distribution of wealth, 92% picked one that was even more equitable.

Follow the link to see the charts that I pulled these captions from, then try to justify your claim that the middle class is squeezing itself into bankruptcy.

The idea is disengenuous at best, blatant class warfare at worst.

If Walker were not a corrupt criminal he'd actually be working to bring jobs to his state to improve the economy rather than elimante jobs to destroy it so his keepers can profit.

The older I get the obvious it is that at the higher levels Republicans and Democrats are guilty of treason.

If Walker succeeds I will boycott anything produced in Wisconsin, and recommend that all fair-minded people join me, since at that point Wisconsin will be nothing more than a feeding station for the rich. If it hurts common Wisconsites, then they can change their ways or suffer for their beliefs which I don't share.

I sure hope that if he breaks the unions, all the unions members go on strike or leave the state entirely to its own devices and let the people who wish to be feudal serfs stay.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by Hemisphere

 

The middle class is not being squeezed by fellow members of the middle class, they are being squeezed by the corporate class:

motherjones.com... rica-chart-graph

A huge share of the nation's economic growth over the past 30 years has gone to the top one-hundredth of one percent, who now make an average of $27 million per household. The average income for the bottom 90 percent of us? $31,244.

Note: The 2007 data (the most current) doesn't reflect the impact of the housing market crash. In 2007, the bottom 60% of Americans had 65% of their net worth tied up in their homes. The top 1%, in contrast, had just 10%. The housing crisis has no doubt further swelled the share of total net worth held by the superrich.

A Harvard business prof and a behavioral economist recently asked more than 5,000 Americans how they thought wealth is distributed in the United States. Most thought that it’s more balanced than it actually is. Asked to choose their ideal distribution of wealth, 92% picked one that was even more equitable.

Follow the link to see the charts that I pulled these captions from, then try to justify your claim that the middle class is squeezing itself into bankruptcy.

The idea is disengenuous at best, blatant class warfare at worst.

If Walker were not a corrupt criminal he'd actually be working to bring jobs to his state to improve the economy rather than elimante jobs to destroy it so his keepers can profit.

The older I get the obvious it is that at the higher levels Republicans and Democrats are guilty of treason.

If Walker succeeds I will boycott anything produced in Wisconsin, and recommend that all fair-minded people join me, since at that point Wisconsin will be nothing more than a feeding station for the rich. If it hurts common Wisconsites, then they can change their ways or suffer for their beliefs which I don't share.

I sure hope that if he breaks the unions, all the unions members go on strike or leave the state entirely to its own devices and let the people who wish to be feudal serfs stay.

edit on 25-2-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)

I for one would like to climb into that middle class no matter WTF is squeezing it. The public sector is a tool of the elite. This is the first real squeezing of the public sector, pardon me if I don't sympathize. There will be no picketing if my employer or I go under. I did not own a home, I do not own a home and I have no plans to sign what little I have over to a bank. 0% tied up in a "home", I don't make the survey. Owning a home is not a human right. People over extended themselves. The politicians demanded it, the banks bent and the weakminded scooped up the baloon mortgages. If you read up a bit on ATS I think you will find that land and homes are not "owned" by individuals in the US. It's a fiction. "You can't take it with you."

I will check out your link. Thanks for the well formed post.

reply to post by Hemisphere


If you think that people over-extending themselves was purely their own fault, you haven't been paying attention. The corporate banks actively and aggressively pushed, encouraged and bamboozled unsophisticated people into taking out mortgages that they didn't understand and weren't fully explained to them. The banks used flattery, incentives, and the misplaced trust of the consumer to create the basis for the "exotic" financial instruments that nearly destroyed us in 2008.

.....Side comment: whenever you hear the term "exotic/complex financial instrument" read "fraudulent" instead: if it can't be explained in plain and simple terms it is nearly 100% certain it's a scam....

The banks knew what they were doing, and if they didn't, what justifies their stratospheric pay, much less their bonusses? I fail to see how financially unsophisticated middle class people conned financial sharks into giving them trillions in loans they knew they couldn't pay back. That simply doesn't track.

The housing bubble has all the hallmarks of a well-coordinated financial scam with TARP being the blowoff: a chance to loot the US Treasury with the full cooperation of the victim, with union-busting in the aftermath as the icing on the cake.