12 Things You Need to Know About the Uprising in Wisconsin

Originally posted by ClintK
reply to post by beezzer

 

When conservatives can't argue with FACTS, they call the person disseminating them a "nutjob."

Pathetic.

Ahem, I also quoted Klein himself retracting what most of his article was about.

Deny ignorance, indeed!

Originally posted by Hemisphere

Originally posted by XEyeHandX
Great post my friend.The masses comlpetely forgot who fought and died for the simple work standards we have now.The unions are not the enemy here.They are fighting for all working class people to keep wages up for everyone.Union wages fall that means all wages fall and holiday pay,40hr work weeks,ot pay will follow.All union haters wake up and realize what your screaming for becoause your just steping on your own toes.Man its amazing how powerfull propaganda is.Read between the lines people.Our working rights are at stake.

Not at all. Just imagine how much money is at stake. Not only do the union employees get their "Cadillac" (that's an Obamanism, not my wording) wages and benefits but the union officials and the politicos are skimming unthinkable amounts off the top. How about that, unions support pro-union candidates. What does the "Cadillac" plan buy the thugs at the top? Blind allegiance by their well payed Roman guard er....... I meant public school teachers when the status quo is questioned. This isn't about losing wages and benefits, this is about losing union dues. And thus the demonstrations in Wisconsin at the slightest suggestion of public employees paying their share. Bringing the vaunted public educational system to a halt. The world didn't end, damn! Let it go on for a couple of months and the unemployed parents in Wisconsin might start home-schooling and further prove what a sham the public educational system is...... You progressive McMansioners should show your dedication to the principals. Do what the Obama's do, don't leave your children in the hands of these union pleebs. Send them to private schools. Get real value for your educational dollars. "The children are our future" don't cha know? I know, then you would be footing the bill. Giving up one of your two "beemers". Only one trip to the islands a year. Wadda piddy! But that's the payoff for the non-union elites that back the public school teachers. You've made public schools into private schools at the expense of everyone. Glorified babysitting.

This is nothing folks. Watch how the cops and firemen react when their time comes. That's already hitting the fan in New Jersey. In recent weeks the newspapers have reported of gang presence and activities in towns where it was "previously unknown". In actuality not unknown just unreported, unadvertised. And it's been there for years, imagine that? We wouldn't want to lay off public servants with that gang threat now would we? Police state coming.

The Star-Ledger is a northern New Jersey newspaper. This from January 28th, 2011:

Gangs have presence in 254 towns, in every county in N.J., survey shows

The gangs have been there for decades. The violence has been there. The newspapers and other media always downplayed that. Why now? Layoffs are imminent and those layoffs will threaten public safety or so we are told. The same progressive pleebs that screamed for the rights of incarcerated gang members now threaten us with "increased" gang violence should there be lay offs of union police. Imagine that!

Back up what you say. I know it feels good to say it, but back it up with FACTS.

BTW:
"(that's an Obamanism, not my wording)"

I think it IS your wording.

reply to post by beezzer


Uh, yes, very selectively. The essence of the article obviously escaped you. Um, like this part:

though his special session created about $120 million in deficit spending between 2011 and 2013 -- and perhaps more than that, if his policies are extended.

But let's just ignore that.

Originally posted by romanmel

Also, isn't it interesting that all we heard after the November elections was the media saying if they don't extend the tax breaks for the millionares there will be no job creation?

Well, they extended them, so where are all those jobs?

The jobs are still here for the short term Mel. Keep the pressure on though and "India, here we come!" Have you not experienced an exodus from your state? Let us know that pristine locale, would ya Mel? A bit of an exaggeration with "job creation" but no more than what was promised with the "stimulus".

This entire thread is bout what Ezra Klein wrote. How about something "in his own words".

reply to post by beezzer


Totally idiotic. It stops and puts partisan text commentary after what he's saying. You think this actually means something with reference to the OP?? How??

Folks, I've gotta go. Wifey wants me to run some errands with her. Sorry. I'll try to check in tomorrow. In the mean time, conservatives should feel free to label me, because they like that and somehow feel it has argumentative value. Label away!!

Originally posted by ClintK
reply to post by beezzer

 

Totally idiotic. It stops and puts partisan text commentary after what he's saying. You think this actually means something with reference to the OP?? How??

This is the guy the OP is refering. If you don't like that youtube vid, then here is the original

reply to post by Bhadhidar


All this talk about fair wages. What about the hours worked for the annual salary. School teachers should keep in mind that most of the rest of us consider a full time school teacher as a person with a good part time job. If you need to earn more, consider getting a summer job. I recall many of my High School teachers worked in parks and summer camps and everyone thought that was as it should be.

People need to realize this is not just about Wisconsin state worker's union. It's not even about unions. It's about the working class, private or public. The working class has been gradually giving more and more power to corporations since Regan became President in 1980. And what was sold to the public? Trickle down economics.

What exactly is trickling down??? Cuz it sure ain't money!

The top 20% own 85% of the wealth and the bottom 50% own less than 1%. In the 50s and 60s, the average CEO took home 25 times that of the average worker. In 1980 it was 40 times. Now it is 350 times! 350!!! There's your trickle down economics for ya!

Folks, these corporations and their political spokes people DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU! When are people going to come to this realization. How much more corruption and exploitation are we going to have to witness? How much farther in debt are we going to have to go?

Think about that the next time you working class republicans start your tirades on unions. Put your ideologies aside and ask yourself if this system is in YOUR best interest. Use your God given reasoning and stop believing in something just because you saw it on Fox News or heard it on Hannity's radio show! You deserve better than this! We all do!

Originally posted by ClintK


BTW:
"(that's an Obamanism, not my wording)"

I think it IS your wording.

Dear Clint, "Cadillac" is the word being referred to by "Obamanism". "Cadillac" is not my wording describing these luxurious benefit plans. "Obamanism" was mine momentarily as I had never heard that term before and that's brilliant, thanks for noticing. Alas, I cannot accept your accolades as I've seen by "Googling" the term, others have gone before me.

I'm currently using only the blunt tools offered so readily by the railing progressives. And so Mr. POTUS is "Hoist with his own petard". This from that bastion of socialism in our republic, another bloated entity backed by our collective dime, npr:

Obama Backs Cadillac Health Plan Tax, Again

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


So democrats do not own companies or stocks, or great expanse of land.

They do not create special interest groups that protect their ideals of life.

I find that hard to believe.

Just look at the power in play now in DC they are doing just as you say in both parties.

Instead of ranting on one side lets get back to basics.

Let us not create jobs through taxation, let us not create revenue for the ones that can work through taxation.

Forced charity though taxation is not charity.

No ONE is guaranteed Health Care through taxation. We have the right to health care but we all do not need to pay for others.


We have certain unalienable rights which are the Right to Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Non of these rights are a product of the government and they are not to be regulated, restricted or denied by the government.

Lower taxes creates more tax revenue through more purchasing power, which allows people to save and provide for themselves. If they are grasshoppers and do not save that is not the fault of you and me, and does not require my money to pay for their downfall.

I am not against helping the widowed, the infirm, the elderly, the father less all of which should be done at a community level and not through the Government.
but alcoholism is not a disease and surely does not Require SSI to support their habit.

The government can not do for you what you can do for your self better, plus there is a cost to the "help" the government gives you.

As for working for the government they continue to get raises in many areas while I as a self employed person have had to lower my wages to get jobs and yet my taxes have gone up.

I paid the state of Oregon 800.00 last year for the honor of owning my own equipment, with no new purchases for the year my person property tax went up $300.00 so they could continue to mismanage money. License plates for my dump truck went from $200.00 a year to $800.00 a year.

So when you wine about tax cuts they fall on deaf ears here.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


Thank you so much for this.

In my pitifully ineffective and desperate ramblings I try to warn gullible people that Republicans have fiendish friends and despicable bedfellows. They indeed represent Corporate Interests and the Privileged Elite alone.

Heritage Foundation Americans.. The same colonist that enjoyed first class section of the ships on the way here from England...(hence the term second class citizens) became the commodities brokers for America.

By corralling ALL and virtually monopolizing all basic and necessary commodities- natural resources, food and fuel they have America and it's people (their workers) in a stranglehold. They are the ruling class whether we want them or not.

Naturally this is the group of folks with all the best toys and perks. With the most to lose, they are dead set on hanging onto it all....hell, highwater and worker/merchant class be damned.
If you are a POLITICIAN and not a member of this privileged class one way to be included is to support their ideas and interests for them.
If you are a politician why would you take the harder nobler more difficult task of protecting people who rarely show their appreciation and can do nothing for you?
Why indeed when you have a businessman friend or a paid lobbist (a middleman who represents the INDUSTRIES INTEREST) who promises you benefits to cast your vote THIS WAY....in favor of the INDUSTRY instead of the people.

THE INDUSTRY WILL THANK YOU.
The people will forget you next year.

This argument DOES effectively convince the weak minded and unscrupulous to take the low road.
And MANY elected representatives are exactly that. Unscrupulous and weak minded individuals with title, industry and pricey PR firms behind them that got them elected in the first place.

"We the People" are going to be on the bitter and losing end of a class war if we allow the GOP to misdirect our anger AT EACH OTHER. It is only a means to instill gravitating hatred and fool us all into forfeiting our individual rights and liberties.

And also...I really like your Avatar.
Pretty much says it all.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


Agreed! Just because of what I just wrote above does not mean that I am pro democrat! It was originally the republican's agenda, but gradually, year after year, democrats have become more pro corporation and less pro working class! Because of the propaganda machine, they majority of Americans, democrat or republican, have lost themselves. They don't realize how much wealth the country really has and don't realize how little is being shared. So democrats, in order to win elections, just have to appease to the dumbed down democratic voters and the republicans to the dumbed down republican voters. ( I am not calling people dumb, just that they have been brain washed since infancy by the propaganda machine) Real change had a little momentum in 2000 when Ralph Nader ran for President, but the DEMOCRATS put the brakes on that train. The freaking democrats are so far away from Ralph Nader they had to shoot him down. This is a perfect example of how far the democratic party has strayed. Ralph Nader is a true, traditional democrat. Now he's viewed as a radical.

Greetings to all. I am a brand spanking new member here at ATS. I have been reading your posts for several years and have enjoyed the many viewpoints that have been posted here. I respect all opinions whether I agree with them or not. This said, I would like to post my own comments on teaching as a profession since this has come up in this discusion.
I taught in the public school system for 15 years here in an unnamed midwestern state and my wife has 21 years in and is still teaching. I have also worked in the private sector for several years so I think I can provide some good info and comparisons.
To begin let me say something general about students and teachers. In my experience 95% of the students I taught were great kids trying their best and were very respectful of the staff from the principals down to the janitors. The same goes for the teachers. Most were hard working people trying to help students become better people and earning their paychecks just like the rest of us. Although I did encounter a number of teachers who spent half the day reading the newspaper or worrying about winning their next football/baseball/basketball game. Please feel free to gripe about the other 5% (teachers and students) because they did make our lives a living he** on a daily basis.
Some comments made by many do concern me. These are:
1. Teacher salary.
2. Work schedule
3. Working conditions
4. Union memberships

Regarding teacher salary: I have read that average teacher salaries reach six figures. In this part of the country I have never seen a teacher pay scale go above $60,000. And that is only after 27 years experience and TWO (count them, TWO) Master's degrees AT THE TEACHER'S OWN EXPENSE! After receiving my Master's degree in the mid-1990's I received a $2,500 per year raise. This was after spending $10,000 to earn my Master's degree. After taxes (Thank you, Uncle Sam), it amounted to a $24.96 take-home pay per week. I remember commenting to my principal that I made more money mowing my neighbor's lawn than I did from this raise. It took about 8 years at this rate to recoup the money I spent on the degree. Let me add that in most states a Master's degree is REQUIRED in order to keep one's teaching certificate. I am not complaining. I knew what I was getting into. I am just pointing this out.

Regarding work schedule: Teachers are under a contractual agreement to teach a certain number of days per year. In my state it is 186. The three months off during the summer is a myth of yesterday. This doesn't count the work put in after school, at home on weekends, at night, and over breaks. Remember, teachers do not draw overtime. Again, this is a good schedule, but it is not the stroll in the park that some think. Remember, until one earns a Master's degree, school breaks are spent in class. I am from the old school before online courses helpe some. We drove to the neares Universitiy, about 120 miles round trip two nights per week during the school year and four days per week during the summer. You guys and gals who take online classes, be thankful!

Regarding working conditions: In my years of teaching, my wife and I have taught in schools that rivaled the grandest shopping malls in their extravagance. We have also taught in schools that were one strong wind away from collapse. Examples:
1. My wife taught in a classroom that was a former coal bin and had no windows.
2. I once taught in a school with no heat and cracks in my classroom wall so big you could see sunshine
coming through them. During one harsh cold snap I would find frost on my computer screens.
3. I once taught in a school where the upstairs bathroom leaked down into the school kitchen which was
positioned underneath. I won't go into detail, but you can use your imagination. I packed my lunch every day
that I was there.
In the years that I have spent teaching, I have been and seen fellow teachers get hit, spit upon, bitten, kicked, cursed, and threatened by the previously mentioned 5% of students. Additionally, there have been cars vandalized, homes vandalized, and other property damage. Lives and careers are often ruined because of false accusations of physical and sexual abuse. Let me make this perfectly clear: Any adult, teacher or otherwise, who abuses a child needs to be put in a cage full of pitbulls with a steak tied to their genitals. Enough said? But in some cases it doesn't matter what the truth is, school administrators will throw the teacher under the bus in order to save face in the public's eye.

Regarding union membership: This is the straight, Honest-to-God truth: Most teachers do not join the teacher unions if given a choice. In some states they are required to join, whether they want to or not. The reason many join, for the most part, is for the inexpensive liability insurance and legal representation that the unions can provide. Most don't even attend the union meetings or participate in any of their activities.

I hope this helps you understand some of the controversial issues surrounding teaching. I think I speak for the vast majority of teachers when I say that we want nothing but good for our students. We want them to succeed in life, find good employment, and to lead happy lives. For those of you that have had bad experiences as a student or teacher, we understand what you are going through and hope that it doesn't cause a bad reflection on those of us who are doing our best to teach and to learn. I would like to thank ATS for allowing me to voice my opinion. Once again, glad to be a new member. I enjoy all of your articles. Good day to all.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

So democrats do not own companies or stocks, or great expanse of land.

They do not create special interest groups that protect their ideals of life.

I find that hard to believe.

Just look at the power in play now in DC they are doing just as you say in both parties.

Instead of ranting on one side lets get back to basics.

Forced charity though taxation is not charity.

No ONE is guaranteed Health Care through taxation. We have the right to health care but we all do not need to pay for others.

So when you wine about tax cuts they fall on deaf ears here.

I have a feeling pretty much everything falls on those same ears.

In terms of types of financial wealth, the top one percent of households have 38.3% of all privately held stock, 60.6% of financial securities, and 62.4% of business equity. The top 10% have 80% to 90% of stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity, and over 75% of non-home real estate.

1% of Americans own the vast majority of all the wealth (property inc) in the US wealth.sociology.ucsc.edu...

The Wealth Distribution
In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%

... the wealth distribution became even more concentrated between 1983 and 2004, in good part due to the tax cuts for the wealthy and the defeat of labor unions: Of all the new financial wealth created by the American economy in that 21-year-period, fully 42% of it went to the top 1%. A whopping 94% went to the top 20%, which of course means that the bottom 80% received only 6% of all the new financial wealth generated in the United States during the '80s, '90s, and early 2000

How does that even happen unless the deck is stacked AGAINST a great majority?
(15% of the wealth is spread among 80% of the people)

I don't see where letting 1/3 of American people get sick, go hungry and die is in our Constitution either.

Originally posted by ClintK

Back up what you say. I know it feels good to say it, but back it up with FACTS.

The facts are in the article. It's all there but you don't live here and refuse to read between the lines when it hurts your position.

According to the report, gangs operate in cities, suburbs and rural areas in 45 percent of the state’s municipalities — up from 43 percent in 2007.

Up 2% in four years. It's been there for decades as I've stated.

This from a bit further into the article. I know you didn't bother reading.

Gang presence and activity has remained relatively static since 2007, according to the report, but officials warned that police resources have dwindled because of the economic recession.

Dave Jones, president of the State Troopers Fraternal Association, said cuts to police departments have made it more difficult to combat gangs and their influence. Gangs have only gotten worse, he said.

"It’s become more visible and more palpable," he said. "This a clear and present danger."

The following from someone that apparently read the report commenting on the article. No, it's not me.

Jersey City has 9 gangs but they haven't been staffed yet. There are no members, just gangs. And yet we get the following quote from David Kennedy, director of the Center for Crime Prevention and Control at John Jay College, and a nationally recognized gang expert:

"It’s one of the best pieces of work like this I’ve ever read. Not only for the depth of the data, but the intelligence with which they thought it through."

Zero gang members spread out among 9 gangs in Jersey City. Great Report! Now they'll just have to wait and see who joins these gangs. Is the Spanish Honors Club at Jersey City High School considered a gang? Just wondering.

I am apparently not alone in my skepticism here in the "Garden State".

Newark finalizes 167 police layoffs after union refuses Booker's plea to return to negotiating table

Not even a nationally recognized progressive mayor can keep all of these plates spinning. Even Cory Booker had to face reality.

"The union didn’t even let us vote on it. We were stuck between a rock and hard place. Now we’re just unemployed," said Zack Vonlagen, 25, who surrendered his gun and shield when he reported for duty. "They shouldn’t have even hired us … You don’t buy a house that you can only afford for eight months."

Alonso Vinueza, 33, another officer who was laid off, believes veteran officers refused pay cuts that would have saved his job. He said he hoped "the senior officers, with their untouched contracts, can live a fruitful life."

And here we see more evidence there is a hard landing for those in at the end of the pyramid scheme. Law enforcement is big business just like the car companies. The CEO's don't get thrown to the curb, the assembly line folks do. The young people walking the beat, still earning their pay, risking everything go first. No tenure! So sorry senor! Without so much as blink from the entrenched "brethren" that could have saved many a job. Oh and all that gang activity still hanging over us!

Newark hasn’t faced layoffs this large since 1978, when then-Mayor Kenneth Gibson eliminated 200 police jobs and the city suffered a spike in violent crime.

Current Police Director Garry McCarthy reorganized the department’s command structure on Nov. 11 to cope with potential layoffs, and said the reduction in force will not prompt a surge in crime.

Ahhhhh, there's the mention. "Spike in violent crime" in 1978, lest we forget the payoff for not bowing to union thugs. Where have you gone Jimmy Hoffa? It is nice to see that McCarthy "reorganized the department’s command structure". That's double-speak for asking the tenured cops to earn their pay, how novel!

Nope, I can't back it up in the way you would like. I cannot force you to see. My only consolation will be at some point in time you feeling the brunt of this fiscal irresponsibility. The time came for Cory Booker and you sir are no Cory Booker.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/764d775e4aaa.png[/atsimg]

From a few years back and totally relevant to this topic.

It must gall the corporate elitists to see tax money spent on something that isn't related to Corporatism or Defense industries.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but don't workers give up part of their pay in hopes that the money will go to a retirement fund, isn't that money something that they already earned and saved? It's not like they are asking people for more retirement money, since it's the money that they have already worked for and put away. So what is the problem? Why aren't these retired people getting paid their money? What happened to all the money the government promised to save for them? Where did it go?

Why shouldn't teachers get paid better than someone who works at a burger place? They spent years getting their education, and they have to teach a bunch of noisy kids. Lets admit it people a lot of us would not want their jobs.