Anonymous vs Westboro baptist Church

this is my first post anywhere but after going to wbc website i was disgusted an had to say that while God does consider homosexuals an abomination he also says judge not lest you be judged an i woudnt want to be in their shoes an love your neigbor as yourself but if they ever showed up at a funeral to honor a fallen brother that i was at it would be time to show some tough love with a 2x4 thanks to all for letting me get that off my chest

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by LarryLove
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

My point is really to do with those that accept a degree of censorship to post on ATS, yet decree Westboro Baptist Church should be allowed to continue broadcasting their venom because it is their right to do so. Whether it is posting on ATS or slinging verbal mud at a picket line, you can't swing both ways in regard to freedom of speech.

No one can come on ATS and post most of the things the WBC paints on their signs.

However, there are many things I cannot post on ATS that I can stand on the edge of a cemetery and say.

Thats true so If i didn't like you and found out your mother died I could stand in the cemetery funeral day with a sign saying "so and so's mother was a Tramp goodbye and good riddance" and you wouldn't touch me right? Free speech correct?

People like WBC thrive because most Americans have become gutless. In the face of evil most bite their tongue and approach evil in a politically correct manner.

Fact is we as humans don't give 2 craps about something till it actually happens to us or someone WE love. Then you say, "oh I wish they would do that at my kin folks funeral their would be hell to pay!!!"


No their wouldn't, most just run their mouth and wouldn't do a damn thing. However their is a small percentage of people (Americans) who if you did that to their family they would charge you and beat the snot out of you. Regardless of first amendments, going to jail, or law suits.

Most have become complacent and soft and get stepped on everyday...

Very few men left like my great grand father someone tough as nails and if you deserved a good smack down for crossing him or his loved ones you had a good chance of receiving it. I think had WBC done this during WW1-2 , vietnam to old timers they would be burying a few of their own or at least have received numerous broken bones.

Say violence never solves anything but their comes a time when evil is so vile and hate so ripe the only way to
get around it is through action not words...

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
I wonder if the families could, in retaliation, get a permit for a *private* service, thereby deciding who might attend, consequently being empowered with having interlopers removed from the premises?

We are after all, allowed to protect ourselves from harm, albeit emotional and psychological.

If some legal solution is not found, eventually a relative will go armed to a funeral, and murder will occur.
This is my prediction.

"Murder" is such a strong and overused/misused word... I wouldn't call it "murder", it would be more along the lines of community service.

Now, if that were ever to happen, can we organize a protest at the WBC funeral? You know, signs that say stuff like "God is mildly dyspeptic over what the secular world does - but he actively hates WBC"?

Or signs that say something like "WBC - writing policy for God since 1955 - before that he was on his own".

Originally posted by TruthWizard
Wow, do people really not understand how anon works. there is no legion it is exactly what it's called anonymous which means ONE person wrote this, not anon as a whole because anon as a whole is everyone or anyone. this is written by one person with a bad understanding of how anon works...and he claims to speak for anon as a whole which isn't possible for anyone because that would mean he is speaking for you.

edit on 19-2-2011 by TruthWizard because: typo

Sounds like someone doesnt know what an anon is. If you do claim to think you know I would just not bother talking about it since it will be wrong anyways.

Sounds like someone wrote a letter about what alot of people think. People are everywhere so it seems pretty on target. Lets wish them luck since only .1% do the work while the rest do nothing.

Originally posted by SMR

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SMR
One thing is for damn sure.
These Westboro Baptist Church members have absolutely NO morals.

Who defines morals?

According to them everyone else is immoral. You can not dictate morality.

I'm not saying you have to follow a rule of morals. It simply amazes me that not one of these members feels like crap when they do such things. Perhaps a better word would be conscious.

Indeed, it's a wonder they seem to not feel, isn't it?

I wonder if they ever read their bible? I seem to recall it saying something about folks who have "consciences as seared with a red hot iron".

Cauterized.

It seems as if there is something or other about "ravening wolves in sheep's clothing", too.

It seems that I can recall such things. Maybe I'm just getting senile. It seems that I recall a LOT of things in that book that are in direct contravention of their activities.

I wonder if they ever read it? Maybe so, in some version. From what I gathered of their philosophy on their website, I think they must have written their own version, since it seems mostly contradictory to any of the "official" versions I've seen.

Perhaps one day Anonymous will get around to taking them to a bible school, teach them what it REALLY says... something or other about reaping and sewing... casting stones... beams in eyes...

Originally posted by Vizzle
reply to post by ELahrairah

 

*Sigh*

Again, 4Chan is not Anon.

Ok I guess it is a miss conception that a lot of people have due to your *sigh* of dismay.
If I'm wrong in my impression that 4chan and the collective of Anonymous are related entity's then please enlighten me as to where I am wrong on that impression.
I do like the concept of an Anonymous activist group that stands up and takes action but if Anon wishes to present it's collective self as a virtuous crusader for human rights and free speech than it better distance itself from 4chan as quickly as possible if it presently has a relationship with it or did at some time in the past because virtuous defenders of free speech and human rights are not the first things that comes to my mind when i think of 4chan.


Also I know that Wikepedia's information can be fallible but it does not help when Wikipedia makes a connection between the two.

Although not necessarily tied to a single on-line entity, many websites are strongly associated with Anonymous. This includes notable imageboards such as 4chan and Futaba, their associated wikis, Encyclopædia Dramatica, and a number of forums.[4] After a series of controversial, widely-publicized protests and distributed denial of service (DDoS) attacks by Anonymous in 2008, incidents linked to its cadre members have increased.

en.wikipedia.org...(group)

Hopefully you can clear up this false impression

Good for anonymous. For those of you who argue that they shouldn't decide who has free speech and who doesn't, remember this; we may have freedom of speech, that does NOT imply we have freedom from consequences. You can't yell "fire" in a crowed theater. You can't your fellow workers racist slurs. (Actually, you can, but there will be consequences).

When the bill of rights was written, there was an assumption that those rights would exercised with respect, care and caution. When you attack others, unprovoked, in my opinion, you have forfeited said rights. You may disagree with me, that doesn't make you right. Nor does it make me right.

Wow. A little off topic here, but this church doesn't speak for the God I know. They've isolated themselves from other churches and the church consists mostly of family members of the preacher. This is a cult, not a church.

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe


They don't have the right to say this. Freedom of speech only protects you so long as you do not infringe upon the rights of others, which is EXACTLY what they are doing.

I say, freedom of speech should be given to all initially, and taken as they prove themselves unworthy of having it.

Originally posted by TruthWizard
Wow, do people really not understand how anon works. there is no legion it is exactly what it's called anonymous which means ONE person wrote this, not anon as a whole because anon as a whole is everyone or anyone. this is written by one person with a bad understanding of how anon works...and he claims to speak for anon as a whole which isn't possible for anyone because that would mean he is speaking for you.

edit on 19-2-2011 by TruthWizard because: typo

I think it's you who doesn't understand them.
Each group is essentially a "cell" with it's own directive which can change daily.
A group can actually be only one.

They HAVE to work in groups on some targets.. do you think each individual who is a part of Anon has ninja skills in all the areas it takes to bring down the targets they/him/or her acquire ?

Go find them on IRC and listen.
example.. HBGarl was cracked by a 16yr girl. She didn't write the letter though nor did she do all the dumping and compiling...

When you see a letter like this, it's most definitely the same author OR authors as HBGary which means there is most definitely a group who are acting together.

What's beautiful is if you take this particular group out, another WILL replace them as Anon is legion.

b

Originally posted by ELahrairah

I do like the concept of an Anonymous activist group that stands up and takes action but if Anon wishes to present it's collective self as a virtuous crusader for human rights and free speech than it better distance itself from 4chan as quickly as possible if it presently has a relationship with it or did at some time in the past because virtuous defenders of free speech and human rights are not the first things that comes to my mind when i think of 4chan.

It doesn't matter if 4chan is associated with Anon.
That's the point of everything.
This is socially spacial concept which many people are having a really hard time grasping.

Anon SHOULD have members of 4Chan... and I'm sure do

b

While this may be an unorthodox and perhaps unpopular point of view I shall give it anyway. I totally believe in the Constitution and free speech.....however with that being said I also believe there is a moral code of behavior that should go along with the right to free speech, not that it should be censored because some of the best things that have come out of free speech were uncensored words. But....I also think that each of us average, everyday people decides what is right and wrong "for us" and decide what "we" will tolerate. That being said if "ANONYMOUS" really does represent a minority in the area where this church is operating, well then they have the right as human beings to intervene...however this does bring into light some questions we all should have been asking ourselves long ago as Americans especially like, Who are we to stifle a race of people (Native Americans), who are we to interfere with multiple nations business because we deem it dangerous or inappropriate? The main point here being that regardless of how small or large the incidence whether local or national or international when is it okay to interfere? Which the U.S. so frequently does without anyone asking us to? Why do you think we are becoming so despised?

There really is no such thing as 100% free speech because in order for there to really and truly be free speech there has to be a nation, a continent, and/or a planet willing to hear anything and it cause no action however that is not the case wars are waged over words, fights break out because people don't want to hear something someone else has to say, riots, looting, and more all from words.....not because you can't say it but because people don't tolerate opinions they don't agree with very well, we are not enough of an enlightened species to hear anything. So in conclusion neither of the groups mentioned have effected me because I have never heard of either of them until this post so I really don't have an opinion as to which direction I think this should go, but based on what I have heard about the church, whatever happens to them they deserve it even if the wind blows the ashes of the whole place off the foundation by the end of the week because they didn't listen (hopefully while no one was inside, just saying) to the warnings of people sick of their rantings.

Honestly this has all happened before in other cultures at different times, the changing of religious and/or spiritual paradigms and it did not happen and will not happen peacefully, when a minority rises up and challenges a long powerful authority that is outdated, corrupt, and far too influential and then that minority inspires others, they become a majority and when they all stand up and topple the pillars of control and uneducated superstition I will hopefully be in the front of the line to help topple the status quo. No I am not for the stifling of free speech but to not tolerate ignorance, stupidity, greed, corruption, bigotry, and hatred spewed everywhere is the basis of the constitution, and the Protestant churches have become just the tyrants the Catholics have been from the beginning in this country, so I say down with the tyrants.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Westboro members spout their ridiculous dogma and use tactics that are obscene to have their message heard. I can understand why people are angry with them and why people have a very low opinion of Westboro. However, it is their right to perform the way that they do as long as they do not break local laws(they have been punished in civil court on occasion, perhaps even criminally when it comes to individual members).

Now so called anonymous, supposedly an organization that fights for freedom of speech and information(among other things), is preparing to issue an ultimatum to Westboro for exercising their rights to freedom of speech, movement, information, ETC.

I hope this is a hoax. If it is real then anonymous will be no better than any dictator. They don't like what Westboro is saying and doing and now they are going to STOP them no matter what! How Ironic. If this keeps up, you will hear a steady drumbeat coming for you in the future, courtesy of anonymous.

I have lukewarm feelings for anonymous. Their rants border on absurdity at times and their methods are questionable at best, downright dangerous to common people at worst. If this happens as they say than I will consider anonymous nothing more than a power hungry group of fools that have only their interests at heart. It would be time to add one more despotic organization to the already long list of despots around the globe.

Don't know if this was posted already, did a quick scan and found nothing. It appears the original letter was a hoax and i'm inclined to believe it was, it seemed out of character. Anonymous tend to support free speech.

www.networkworld.com...

In-between the two, this other Open Letter from Anonymous gained less attention, but told WBC that Anonymous knew it was a trap, and the short-on-money, thrive-on-attention WBC was in fact behind the first Open Letter supposedly from Anonymous.

Of course this reply could be the hoax as well

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


HA! Called it on page 2!!! www.abovetopsecret.com...

/me feels smug and smart for a few seconds then moves on.

reply to post by pintobean


Which God do you KNOW?

Interested in learning which God you know, and how.

How can a group with no leaders release a hoax statement? Some people are getting more and more involved.

www.godhatesfags.com - TANGO DOWN. Temporarily. For celebrating the death of US troops - honeypot fail btw about 7 hours ago via XerXeS Attack Platform V3.17

Well, the WBC has issued its very own response to anonymous' threats .

A puddle of pimple-faced nerds organized under the cowardly banner of “Anonymous” claim they plan to hack Westboro’s Websites, including www.GodHatesFags.com & www.GodHatesTheMedia.com, because they hate Westboro’s Bible preachments. They mistakenly suppose because of pseudo-success with ruined-and-doomed-USA’s government or financial Websites that they can take on the servants of the Living God.

Bad miscalculation, girls!

Let us tell you how this will go: rebels will build a full head of steam based on false hope; the media will predictably do much breathless anticipating while giving another tsunami of coverage to Westboro’s message; God will defeat your council; your efforts will fail.

We should all be scared now.

Plenty of you do not seem to understand Rights and what the Constitution means. Those outside the US obviously excluded. We have our rights not because of the Constitution but because we are human. The Constitution limits the power of the government however that alone does not give you the right to infringe on another . You are disconnecting yoruself from what is the government. This is a major problem we have for too long seen the government as an entity that has rights. It does not. It dirives its power from OUR consent. That means it has no power that we ourselves do not have. You do not have the power to use force to quell speach that you do not agree with.
Now let me qualify that statement. If someone has gone out of their way to violate the rights of others then they have waived any claim that they have to being infringed upon. Thus we punish those who harm others through force or fraud. It is not the words of the WBC that are an infringement it is their appearance at the funerals of private individuals. They are violating the rights of those families to peacefully assemble. it is a fine line however and its one the WBC expertly walk. It is correct that the WBC is in fact a scam. They are attempting to provoke a response from individuals or local government so that they can bring a civil case and extort settlements.
I think the pattern is clear and I think they are an organization whos sole purpose is to infringe upon the rights of others. Their ability to do so should be diminished.