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Wisconsin protesters to face Tea Party counter protesters today

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posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 

Originally posted by ~Lucidity

Why the hell would the Tea Party pick government over people?




Because, like the Republicans before them, the Tea Party congressmen and women want smaller government until it comes to an area that they don't agree with, and then they want bigger government to come in and strong-arm the people. They don't really want smaller government. They just want to use government to make things the way THEY want them to be.


Wrong. THE TPM wants the unions to realize that the government is too big as it stands. They want these selfish people to contribute to their pensions, as most other Americans have to. The end result is smaller government.

Otherwise, people will have to lose their jobs and/or taxes will have to be raised to pay for the union's bloated benefits.

Not too difficult to understand, is it?


They just want to use government to make things the way THEY want them to be.


And the unions want the government to......what, exactly? Same thing, maybe?




They want to use government to:
Strip labor organizations of their rights
Strip a woman's right to her body
Tell us whom we can marry
Invade our privacy (Patriot Act)
Tell us what we can put in our bodies (recreational drugs)


This is a bunch of bullcrap. Show me where those objectives are written by the TPM. Else stop spreading lies and disinformation.




posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by Byteman
Says the person who failed to realize that the Tea Party is really just relabeled Libertarian-conservatives.


Says the person who fails to recognize that the TEA party was coopted by FOX news, the very organization
that pursues many anti libertarian policies through its media strategy.




How are they being hypocrites?
They are conservatives who oppose liberalism, that is called INTEGRITY.


Who also re authorize the patriot act, approve funding NACAAR ad dollars to further benefit the military industrial complex and take a considerable amount of money in from two of the nations biggest corporatists, who are anti free market by the very nature of their business's.




If they opposed other conservatives then they MIGHT be hypocrites then.
You obviously fail to understand how to apply the hypocrite label.


I submit in many cases, the TEA party ideologues appear to feel justified in supporting anything if the RIGHT politician proposes it. Conversely they will attack an opposing politician who is proposing an idea that would otherwise be over looked by the ire of the tea party.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by Aristophrenia
 


Texas begs to differ.

We have unions, but they are nothing like the Yankee unions.

*Unions may not make any charge or exaction or receive money for fees, dues, fines, or assessments that will create a fund in excess of the reasonable requirements of the union.

*Unions may not make financial contributions to any political party or to campaign expenses of any individual.

*Unions are required to keep itemizations of all expenditures and receipts and to make such accounts open to inspection of any member and, subject to approval of the attorney general, to enforcement officers.

*Unions may be held liable in damage for loss resulting to a person or firm from picketing or strike by its members when such action is held to be breach of contract by a court of competent jurisdiction.

*Public employees are not forbidden to organize or to join labor unions, but it is against declared public policy in Texas for any official or officials of the state or any of its political subdivisions to enter into a collective bargaining contract with a labor organization respecting wages, hours, or condition of employment of public employees.

*No person may be denied public employment because of membership or non-membership in a labor organization.

*Labor organization activities such as strikes, boycotts, and picketing are subject to many restrictions.


And Texas is not really hurting to the degree that most states are.

In Texas, unless you are on contract, you are an at will employee. That is the way it should be. If you don't do your job, you are fired. End of story.

Unions are just a politic playing drain.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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The teabaggers are the political equivalent of scabs and should be treated as such.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by NoHierarchy
The teabaggers are the political equivalent of scabs and should be treated as such.


I believe the word you are looking for is Tea PARTIERS.

ANd even the Liberal Democrat FDR is rolling in his grave over this:

--[M]eticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.

All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.
--





As for scabs . . .

Because they see that this Union BS is just that . . . BS.

Scabs, they may be called by you, but to everyone else, they are the only smart ones in this whole mess.

Everyone who was absent from work this last week should be fired immediately, and have charges pressed.

Wisconsin law:

946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:
946.12(1)
(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or
946.12(3)
(3) Whether by act of commission or omission, in the officer’s or employee’s capacity as such officer or employee exercises a discretionary power in a manner inconsistent with the duties of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment or the rights of others and with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another;

edit on 2/20/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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Another thread on the Koch connections...www.abovetopsecret.com...

And speaking of thugs and scabs, check out this potential brewing mess on the "fake" doctors' notes. www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:52 PM
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Stopping anybody from peacefully protesting about anything, no matter if you call it a "union" or a "mob", is not "freedom". Restricting unions is completely backwards from the spirit of this nation (or what we are told that spirit is supposed to be) and every single effort to limit the powers of unions should be redacted.

No matter how the different parties spin it, we are talking about silencing a group of Americans when they want to protest.

I hope the government brings out the police. I hope the government brings out the tear gas. I hope the government flexes its muscles and shows its true colors. The bottom line: Politicians are not us. Politicians are not "we the people". We are. The sooner we rip that band-aid off, the better. Right now, you still have people thinking the elected corporate dictators we choose every term are still on our sides. Soon there will be no illusions.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 

Protest and even more to the root of this, negotiate. Soon there will be no illusions is right.

edit on 2/20/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
The teabaggers are the political equivalent of scabs and should be treated as such.


I believe the word you are looking for is Tea PARTIERS.

ANd even the Liberal Democrat FDR is rolling in his grave over this:

--[M]eticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.

All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.
--





As for scabs . . .

Because they see that this Union BS is just that . . . BS.

Scabs, they may be called by you, but to everyone else, they are the only smart ones in this whole mess.

Everyone who was absent from work this last week should be fired immediately, and have charges pressed.

Wisconsin law:

946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:
946.12(1)
(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or
946.12(3)
(3) Whether by act of commission or omission, in the officer’s or employee’s capacity as such officer or employee exercises a discretionary power in a manner inconsistent with the duties of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment or the rights of others and with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another;

edit on 2/20/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)


Funny how you use V for Vendetta as your avatar yet you show no respect for the rights of the lower class abused by government and big business...

Please reassess either your position or the kind of fictional revolutionaries you inaccurately associate your ideology with.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by NoHierarchy
 


Yeah, you picked up on the irony, too?



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 

It's thick here surrounding this issue, isn't it? Very thick. And quite eye-opening.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 09:00 PM
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Dueling Protests in a Capital as Nothing Much Gets Done

MADISON, Wis. — In a capital city overrun for much of the past week by union supporters, state employees and students — all objecting to the Republican governor’s plan to cut collective bargaining rights and benefits for public workers — a new element was introduced on Saturday: opposition to the opposition.





posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 




I believe the word you are looking for is Tea PARTIERS.


No - you don't get it. Open your eyes from the Illusion and understand: It is the TEA BAGGERS because those idiots are nothing LIKE the people who dumped tea into the ocean in Boston in PROTEST of "NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION"

REPRESENTATION
Hmmm - You would seem to be on the side of denying your fellow American of work place representation, as are the Tea Baggers.



As for scabs . . .

Because they see that this Union BS is just that . . . BS.

Scabs, they may be called by you, but to everyone else, they are the only smart ones in this whole mess.

Everyone who was absent from work this last week should be fired immediately, and have charges pressed.

Wisconsin law:

946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:
946.12(1)
(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or
946.12(3)
(3) Whether by act of commission or omission, in the officer’s or employee’s capacity as such officer or employee exercises a discretionary power in a manner inconsistent with the duties of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment or the rights of others and with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another;


Have you ever watched V for Vendetta? I don't think so. I don't think you truly know the purpose or the meaning behind the movie either, you are intellectually deficiant in your cause. What you seem to represent in the statement that I put in bold, is some sort of dictatorial ownership of employee rights according to your judgment. Interesting statements - and how Un-American, and Un-Constitutional. What people need to do is start shutting more things down - Banks, Corporations and government buildings. The Tea Bagger Mubarak support gangsters, thugs and worshipers of big corporations and banks need to be put in check too.
Shame on you for using the V for Vendetta symbolism in your avatar. What a lie you pose.


you forgot to add this to your propaganda machine



2010 Wisconsin Code
Chapter 946. Crimes against government and its administration.
946.12 Misconduct in public office.

946.12(4)

(4) In the officer's or employee's capacity as such officer or employee, makes an entry in an account or record book or return, certificate, report or statement which in a material respect the officer or employee intentionally falsifies; or

946.12(5)

(5) Under color of the officer's or employee's office or employment, intentionally solicits or accepts for the performance of any service or duty anything of value which the officer or employee knows is greater or less than is fixed by law.

" with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another;"
'makes an entry in an account or record book or return, certificate, report or statement which in a material respect the officer or employee intentionally falsifies; or"

The entire 'law' you quote is for gross misconduct for an employee in Wisconsin office who is falsifying information. What gross misconduct is being insinuated? You didn't read your propaganda correctly son. Go back and look at the big words, get a dictionary - or use google.

Wouldn't what the people and senators of Wisconsin are doing fall under the FIRST AMENDMENT? Get a clue.



I usually am not this harsh in my postings, for that I apologize – it just infuriates me when people give more power to the government, and corporations when we are ALL suffering at their hands. Wake up. Class fighting class, race fighting race - this is about us as people, not unions. Why go after the Unions when Banks and Government are the ones who caused the deficit? Unions didn't cause this. Why punish Unions? Get out of the illusion.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Yeah, I watched that vid you just posted - If this goes through, watch for lay offs. If it gets denied, watch for lay offs. It is a catch 22. This guy is full of it. People need to wake up quickly to the tools being used against them.

Good thread.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 09:37 PM
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Reply to post by NoHierarchy
 


Are you dense?

My position is just fine, thanks.

The government employees want the government to spend more money on their pensions.

Protesters want big government, TPM wants smaller government.

Lower class and abused by the government?

School employees are hardly lower class and abused. Nice try though. Protip…I work for a school district.

These people are just being greedy, to get down and dirty.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.



 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 

Are you sure that Wall Street and the government didn't borrow and/or rob their secured pension money already and now the state has no way to pay? This is not entirely clear and has happened and is happening in other states. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by kroms33
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 




I believe the word you are looking for is Tea PARTIERS.


No - you don't get it. Open your eyes from the Illusion and understand: It is the TEA BAGGERS because those idiots are nothing LIKE the people who dumped tea into the ocean in Boston in PROTEST of "NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION"

REPRESENTATION
Hmmm - You would seem to be on the side of denying your fellow American of work place representation, as are the Tea Baggers.


Bwahahah

Someone reads Huffington Post. Nice talking point


As I said before. I live in Texas, a right to work state. You are free to join a Union if you please.

If you want representation, join the Union. If not, don't. It is your right to do with your money as you please.



As for scabs . . .

Because they see that this Union BS is just that . . . BS.

Scabs, they may be called by you, but to everyone else, they are the only smart ones in this whole mess.

Everyone who was absent from work this last week should be fired immediately, and have charges pressed.

Wisconsin law:

946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:
946.12(1)
(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or
946.12(3)
(3) Whether by act of commission or omission, in the officer’s or employee’s capacity as such officer or employee exercises a discretionary power in a manner inconsistent with the duties of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment or the rights of others and with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another;


Have you ever watched V for Vendetta?


No. Just pull stuff outta my ass



I don't think so. I don't think you truly know the purpose or the meaning behind the movie either, you are intellectually deficiant in your cause.


Simply put, it is rebellion against government. I, though, agree with the founding fathers. All government is evil, yet necessary. With big government, mean are not free. If there is no government, anarchy ensues, and no one is free. The goal is to have a small a government as possible.

So I am a modified V. I am rebelling against the only thing taking away my freedoms. Big government.




What you seem to represent in the statement that I put in bold, is some sort of dictatorial ownership of employee rights according to your judgment.


They were hired to work. They signed a contract for said work. Are they working? If not, then the contract is broken. Adios. Fired.

And asking a public employee to obey law (which I am sure the Unions had a hand in drafting, I might add) is dictatorship?

They are being payed for time worked that they did not work. Therefore, they are stealing taxpayer money.


Interesting statements - and how Un-American, and Un-Constitutional.


Unions dealing with private-sector employers are subject to the Federal rules and regulations imposed on them by the National Labor Relations Act. Unions dealing with public-sector employees of the states operate under the rules and regulations of the individual states.

Some teachers in Wisconsin have called in sick. Many of these teachers have apparently not been ill but have been attending the union rallies in Madison. This is dishonest and in violation of their collective bargaining contract and the laws of Wisconsin.

I did not say ban Unions. That would be un-Constitutional and un-American. I am saying fire these dolts for breach of contract.

Again, I urge you to look at how Texas handles Unions. That is the way it should be done.




What people need to do is start shutting more things down - Banks, Corporations and government buildings. The Tea Bagger Mubarak support gangsters, thugs and worshipers of big corporations and banks need to be put in check too.


Nope. Only BIG banks, BIG corporations, and BIG government.


Shame on you for using the V for Vendetta symbolism in your avatar. What a lie you pose.


V means different things to different people. :shrug:



you forgot to add this to your propaganda machine


2010 Wisconsin Code
Chapter 946. Crimes against government and its administration.
946.12 Misconduct in public office.

946.12(4)

(4) In the officer's or employee's capacity as such officer or employee, makes an entry in an account or record book or return, certificate, report or statement which in a material respect the officer or employee intentionally falsifies; or

946.12(5)

(5) Under color of the officer's or employee's office or employment, intentionally solicits or accepts for the performance of any service or duty anything of value which the officer or employee knows is greater or less than is fixed by law.

" with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another;"
'makes an entry in an account or record book or return, certificate, report or statement which in a material respect the officer or employee intentionally falsifies; or"

The entire 'law' you quote is for gross misconduct for an employee in Wisconsin office who is falsifying information. What gross misconduct is being insinuated? You didn't read your propaganda correctly son. Go back and look at the big words, get a dictionary - or use google.


Apparently you do not read correctly, because the only part of the law that applies to this situation is section (1)

--946.12
946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:

946.12(1)
(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer's or employee's office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or--

Notice the OR at the end. That means that all the public employees has to do to get a felony. Not AND, which would encompass the rest.

Pretty funny . . . you talking down to me, and now have egg on your face.


Wouldn't what the people and senators of Wisconsin are doing fall under the FIRST AMENDMENT? Get a clue.


Indeed. They have a right to protest. But when you don't show up for work, you get fired. Duhh.



I usually am not this harsh in my postings, for that I apologize – it just infuriates me when people give more power to the government, and corporations when we are ALL suffering at their hands. Wake up. Class fighting class, race fighting race - this is about us as people, not unions. Why go after the Unions when Banks and Government are the ones who caused the deficit? Unions didn't cause this. Why punish Unions? Get out of the illusion.


Again. If one wants Unions, fine. But forced Unionization becomes makes the Unions become another form of government that gets too big for its britches.


I am done in this thread, as I have said my piece.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 12:19 AM
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reply to post by mishigas
 

Or maybe Wall Street and the government borrowed/stole their secured pension funds that they contributed to and now there's no money to pay current or future pension obligations so they're kicking them some more like happened in other states? I'm just asking.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 02:33 AM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


You've got to be kidding me with that simple-minded bullsh*t.

Big government?? NO. Big government is big military, police states, an overabundance of laws/restrictions upon the citizenry. What the unions are fighting for are their RIGHTS as workers against an elitist right-wing corporatist with very questionable funding.



posted on Feb, 21 2011 @ 04:37 AM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 




Or maybe Wall Street and the government borrowed/stole their secured pension funds that they contributed to and now there's no money to pay current or future pension obligations so they're kicking them some more like happened in other states? I'm just asking.


Any evidence to that? Because if there is, a nice prison cell awaits the thieves.




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