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OZ MP - "inability" of Muslim migrants to integrate. Finally the debate gets some publicity.

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posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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Scott Morrison, the Shadow Immigration Minister of the Liberal Party (Australia) has had death threats made against him for bringing up publicly the issue that immigrants of Islamic Faith have trouble integrating into Western society and that future immigration policies should do something about it.

Muslim Integration the Problem



No one who knows the Opposition's immigration spokesman, Scott Morrison, would dream he's racist, as so many commentators now imply. His real offence is that in shadow cabinet he suggested the Coalition tackle an issue of growing public concern before it turned even uglier. That issue is Muslim integration. And add now the Gillard Government's new defence of multiculturalism, a policy to fund what divides us that the leaders of France, England and Germany say has failed in their countries. What broke multiculturalism there is also killing it here. That we have trouble integrating our 400,000 Muslims is beyond question, even if it's also true that most make fine citizens.


This is NOT a racist arguement but more a scientifically proven social issue....that needs to be addressed that is being brought up in many governments across Europe at the moment....thank god we are starting to see some debate here in Australia for once...alot of the public have been saying this for years but concerns have fallen on deaf ears.

Some simple statistics -



Muslims here are more than twice as likely as the rest of us to be without work. Their children are twice as likely to be jobless, and three times more likely to be poor. Their imprisonment rates are higher, and all 20 of the people we've jailed on terrorism-related offences are Muslim.


Not to mention the Urban Ghetto's that these immigrants have created themselves...yes, government policy is to blame for allowing immigrants to congregate and grow in such vast numbers in one area but the damage has been already done.

Why is it that the mass European immigration programs of the 1950's here in Australia's were successful and Australian of European decent have integrated perfectly into society? The large influx of Vietnamese refugees in the early 1990's thou more troublesome and still having their issues are slowly starting to integrate into Australian society.....but those from Islamic backgrounds be it Indonesia, the Middle east or Africa cannot seem to integrate into Australian/Western Society?

They refuse to accept western way of life.....criticize it and our governments, with the freedoms that our societies allow them to voice their opinion. Try to change our way of life to mirror that of the countries they originated from...why?

What can we do, as governments to fix it now and for the future?

Is this a problem with Western Societies inability to accept Islamic immigrants or Islamic Immigrants inability to integrate?




posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 


This is something that I have seen happening for years - however the problem doesn't seem to be the Islamic Faith itself, moreso the countries of origin of some immigrants.

For example growing up I was friends with a large number of Cocos / Christmas Islander Muslims who all had good jobs, worked hard at shcool, played sport and socialised among the wider community.

Now, you could argue that they are not "immigrants" strictly speaking - but the point is they didn't allow their religion to be a barrier to becoming integrated in the community.

The immigrants that are coming in to the Eastern States (where most of the trouble seems to be focused) are typically from Middle Eastern countries that are socially under developed compared to Australia and other Western Countries.

While I do think that these countries have been held back by their religion in terms of social evolution, I don't think that it can be said that a Muslim who has had the luxury of a moderate upbringing in a western country that embraces diversity would face the same problems.

With all that being said - I don't think that Islam is a healthy religion in its fundamentalist form and personally I am very concerned that Australia may end up like Europe.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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I am simply amazed that Australians continue to do this.

I have no issues with multi-culture, but a process must be in place to force integration.

You cannot simply allow one race to collect in one place and expect them to leave their baggage at the airport.

If you allow, for example only, Jewish folk to amass in one suburb, and then say Palestinian folk to take up two suburbs away, are you not simply exacerbating the issues they came here to leave?

We here ( or should I say our elected officials ie Grasby) have been led us astray before, and the do-gooders will back them to the hilt.

Spread out new friends, you are welcome here, become an Aussie, have a BBQ with a neighbour !

Get with the program.

Leave what you left behind, behind.

And we will share , without doubt, the best country in the world.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:32 PM
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They can't intergrate because of their religion. They don't want to intergrate. They want to grow (breed) and eventually influence the way people think and legislate. Just like Britian. And soon like other places.

They are offended with those statements for God knows what reason, but I find mostly they get offended at everything in my observation. It's all to do with creating a fear of disagreeing with them and what they want so they can influence the countries they shift to. It's the best way of spreading a religion. Migrate and breed.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 


Yes it is great to see someone with the balls to speak out, & the man on the street knows we need to do a u-turn on our immigration policy. I recommend you read "Nomad" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somalian woman who has renounced her Islamic beliefs having been raised a Muslim. To quote a section from her book -

"The social workers in the west will tell you that immigrants need to maintain group cohesion for their mental health, because otherwise they will be confused & their self esteem destroyed. This is untrue. The Idea that immigrants need to maintain group cohesion promotes the perception of them as victim groups requiring special accomodation , an industry of special facilities & assistance........Here is something I have learned the hard way, but which a lot of well meaning people in the west have a hard time accepting ; All human beings are equal, but all cultures & religions are not. A culture that celebrates femininity & considers woman to be the masters of their own lives is better than a culture that mutilates girls genitals & confines them behind walls & veils or flogs or stones them for falling in love. A culture that protects womans rights by law is better than a culture in which a man can lawfully have four wives at once & women are denied alimony & half their inheritance. A culture that appoints women to its supreme court is better than a culture that declares the testimony of a woman is worth half that of a man. It is part of Muslim culture to oppress women & part of all tribal cultures to institutionalise patronage, nepotism, & corruption. The culture of Western enlightenment is better. In the real world, equal respect for all cultures doesn't translate into a rich mosaic of colourful & proud peoples interacting peacfully while maintaining a delightful diversity of food & craftwork. It translates into closed pockets of oppression, ignorance, & abuse."



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:38 PM
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What about the Aboriginal people in Oz? Something like 75% are living in poverty.

It's more to do with attitude to racial stereotypes. Muslims are the new bad guys on the block. Any community or minority targeted will draw into themselves to support each other.

I know Muslis who are very western in their mindset, yet obviously do practise their faith, much like many christians do.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by JonoEnglish
 



i would do some more research sir.

I am not even going there, as I would be labelled racist.

Just look deeper.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by JonoEnglish
What about the Aboriginal people in Oz? Something like 75% are living in poverty.


And why is that? Despite decades of support & funding for everything imaginable, nothing has helped. There are two inconvenient potentials here; at some point the Aboriginal people will have to let go of the past & take responsibility for their own destiny, or they are just not capable of adapting to our concept of everyday life. Thats it, & we don't need to live the endless loop of guilt tripping associated with this situation.



It's more to do with attitude to racial stereotypes. Muslims are the new bad guys on the block. Any community or minority targeted will draw into themselves to support each other.


No it's not, this is different. Look to other countries around the world & learn from the failed policies associated with Muslim integration. The core of this religion is flawed & any extremist can always fall back to "The Quran" to justify backward concepts Western society left behind long ago.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by mungodave
a process must be in place to force integration


What????

So you want everything to be the way that you want to be, just because you think your way is the best?

I mean seriously, you can make them follow the rules of the society they are in, but full blown forcing them to be like you isn't what I call freedom.

(Sorry if I have offended you, but I'm just really having a bad day.)



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by daggyz
 


A small faction of Muslims that immigrate to other Countries from the Middle East are in reality " Fifth Columnists ' who's sole intent is to Spead the influence of Radical Islam in order to subvert other Countries Social Orders . Isn't that Obvious by now ? Wake Up people !



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by CarpenterMatt

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
What about the Aboriginal people in Oz? Something like 75% are living in poverty.


And why is that? Despite decades of support & funding for everything imaginable, nothing has helped. There are two inconvenient potentials here; at some point the Aboriginal people will have to let go of the past & take responsibility for their own destiny, or they are just not capable of adapting to our concept of everyday life. Thats it, & we don't need to live the endless loop of guilt tripping associated with this situation.



It's more to do with attitude to racial stereotypes. Muslims are the new bad guys on the block. Any community or minority targeted will draw into themselves to support each other.


No it's not, this is different. Look to other countries around the world & learn from the failed policies associated with Muslim integration. The core of this religion is flawed & any extremist can always fall back to "The Quran" to justify backward concepts Western society left behind long ago.



Just like the core of communism is flawed, like the core of judaism is flawed, like the core of christianity is flawed.....

It's this never ending trail of hate that has been spread by the media. Which does make people think that this new enemy is "different".



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by daggyz
They can't intergrate because of their religion. They don't want to intergrate. They want to grow (breed) and eventually influence the way people think and legislate. Just like Britian. And soon like other places.

They are offended with those statements for God knows what reason


Because you know EXACTLY how they live right?

Would you be offended if people make comments like these....






carpet bomb the middle east with pig guts!

Oh man! This is a treat. It's killing spree all over the middle east. Let's get our guys back. The Muslims are doing great killing each other already.

Islam Is For All"

Dude, you follow a violent, intolerant, oppressive, murderous, ignorant religion made up by a child-raping pedophile in order to gain access to the pre-teen daughters of his sycophant followers. You troglodytes treat your women as chattel, support and engage in slavery, murder your daughters, mutilate women who reject you and your ignorant religion, an even murder each other and blow up each others' mosques over who is the correct muslim!

Ninety-nine percent of all violent conflicts and trouble in the world have members of your ignorant religion at the center of it. Islam is a cancer on the world.

People hate muslims for a reason! It is based upon muslims' outrageous behavior.

You have no business lecturing others on morality. No muslim does.

Now go sleep with your goat.

When will this country start calling a spade a spade. There's no such thing as a moderate muslim. A muslim is a muslim is a muslim. Keep them out of this country.
Odd, Bush told us it was just a few extremists.
And Obama was going to make the world love us.

Too bad they didn't understand Islam ... a violent warrior ideology created by a tyrant who plundered, slaughtered, conquered and oppressed. Mohammad ethnically cleansed Medina of Jews. He was the original Hitler.


"YOU MAY BE A TALIBAN IF..."


1. You refine heroin for a living, but you have a
moral objection to liquor.

2. You own a $3,000 machine gun and $5,000 rocket
launcher, but you can't afford shoes.

3. You have more wives than teeth.

4. You wipe your butt with your bare hand, but consider
bacon "unclean."

5. You think vests come in two styles: bullet-proof and
suicide.

6. You can't think of anyone you haven't declared
Jihad against.

7. You consider television dangerous, but routinely carry
explosives in your clothing.

8. You were amazed to discover that cell phones have uses
other than setting off roadside bombs.

9. You have nothing against women and think every
man should own at least two.

10. You've always had a crush on your neighbor's
goat



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 


And the Australians in question have exactly HOW much room to talk about someone not assimilating? Did the MP make this announcement in Walmajarri or Arrernte? No? Then he needs to shut his cavernous beer-hole.




posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by binomialtheorem
 


Yes, the hate game is being played, but it should not be confused with justifiable critisism based on real world outcomes of the clash of cultures. We have a right to debate this topic because the outcome will effect the shape & form of our countries long into the future.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by binomialtheorem

Originally posted by mungodave
a process must be in place to force integration


What????

So you want everything to be the way that you want to be, just because you think your way is the best?

I mean seriously, you can make them follow the rules of the society they are in, but full blown forcing them to be like you isn't what I call freedom.

(Sorry if I have offended you, but I'm just really having a bad day.)


No offence taken.

Please note I used the term "integration", not "segregation"


The "wogs" as they were called in my youth have intergrated so well, one would not know. Papadoploulous as a surname gives it away.

Miss Ng at her bakery says " morning Mungo, what do ya need darl"

Its about dropping they ridiculous notion that by head-butting the ground when told makes you even slightly superior to anyone else.

And frankly, a lot of us are fed up to the back teeth with this do-gooder BS.

I refuse to bow down to the wants of immigrants.

The sticker on my car says, "Australia, like it or LEAVE it"

That doesnt make me racist, just proud Australian.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 



Why there?

Canberra is the seat of government in this country.

Are you saying native Australians should have the final say?

This 5th gen Aussie pays enormous taxes and always has, just to enjoy his own country.

And to have an opinion.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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The first question we have to ask ourself is:

When muslims immigrate in a new country
do they really have the sincere intention to integrate in their new community ?

I don't think so



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by daggyz
They can't intergrate because of their religion. They don't want to intergrate. They want to grow (breed) and eventually influence the way people think and legislate. Just like Britian. And soon like other places.


Say what now? Please elaborate on this claim about Muslims influencing the way we think and legislate in the UK...

As for the OP, it seems to be a growing trend amongst the politcal elite to deal with this issue. And finally too, seeing as the populace in various countries have been concerned about mass immigration and failure to intergrate for quite some time.



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 


And the Australians in question have exactly HOW much room to talk about someone not assimilating? Did the MP make this announcement in Walmajarri or Arrernte? No? Then he needs to shut his cavernous beer-hole.



???????????????????????Nobody came knocking on my door to ask an opinion & I dont expect they should. Why do you feel the need for a personal visit? Do you have some highly specialised expertise in this area that needs to be unleashed on the world?



posted on Feb, 19 2011 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by daggyz
They can't intergrate because of their religion. They don't want to intergrate. They want to grow (breed) and eventually influence the way people think and legislate. Just like Britian. And soon like other places.


Say what now? Please elaborate on this claim about Muslims influencing the way we think and legislate in the UK...

As for the OP, it seems to be a growing trend amongst the politcal elite to deal with this issue. And finally too, seeing as the populace in various countries have been concerned about mass immigration and failure to intergrate for quite some time.



I think this summs it up...



They don't want to intergrate.



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