PERFECT Example of Why Citizens need to be Armed...

you know...if it came to that type of breakdown in the U.S....i would be out of here in a flash. john wayne bravado doesn't do well in real life, it just gets people killed or put into prison. they don't call the wealthy "powerful" for no reason.

Originally posted by Tephra
This defeatist logic proves to be even more fatal. Any weapon is better than no weapon. I think you are greatly overestimating the willingness of the military as a whole to engage U.S. Citizens. Regardless, any rifle is effective enough if used properly.

It is not defeatest logic, it is just logic. I never once said I would just lay down and let anyone run roughshod over me but I do understand that none of the guns I own are going to do jacksquat against the US military if they so chose to roll into my town and take over. I understand the futility of throwing rocks at tanks. Fortunately, I live in the real world where this is not about to happen anytime soon.

reply to post by randomname


Allow me to choose my words carefully here.

First of all, there is a time to fight and a time to sit back and allow events to unfold.
Right now, for Americans, it is time to sit back and watch events unfold.

Now then,
If I were in a country whos military had shown a blatant disregard for the lives of the Citizens such as what has happened in Bahrain, It would not be necessary to take on/out the entire "military might".
My mentality, and the mentality of others is....

As long as I can kill or assist in killing at least ONE of the bastards then I have done my job and been an asset to the movement. Yes yes I know, then they will kill me.....blahhh blahhh blahhhh.
Did the people of Egypt look like they were worried about dieing??
Do the people of Bahrain look like they are afraid of dieing????
It is such a hard concept for victims to grasp.
Why would you do something that would get you killed?????
Doesn't make sense!!!!
I don't understand!!!!

You're not supposed to understand sweety.
You are what is called a "VICTIM"

The people who are taking their countries back are what I like to call......"WARRIORS".

Victims and warriors will NEVER understand the way the other thinks.
They can't, it is impossible.

reply to post by randomname


I seem to remember a bunch of rag tag civilians with their little "Plinkers" picking the US military apart. Countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea and the Balkins quickly come to mind. Seems that they "Took on the might of the mighty US military" and held up pretty well. What, you expected the citizens to line up against the military and take turns shooting like in the 1500s???

Wake up! If ANY military thought they could simply waltz across the US, they would have done so already. The Japanese didn't even want to touch the US mainland as their own Generals stated that there would be a gun pointed at them from behind every blade of grass!

Sheesh!

Originally posted by Screwed
Spoken like a true victim.
Tell ya what sweetheart ,You just sit tight and let the Men do the fighting.
Not everyone has a victim mentality.

Spoken like a true chairforce commander. How brave of you to make a sexist post while pretending to be a brave soldier in a fight for me against what? The IMAGINARY invasion of the US by the US. What other imaginary threats are you so brave against? Dark rooms? Half open closets? I bet the space under your bed is safe! My hero.

Maybe you can help feed us after a hard day of battle....if we're still alive.
Just throwin out ideas.

I am pretty sure once you are disarmed and taken into custody, they will feed you these meaty sandwiches I hear the Blackwater guys really like to serve. I am pretty sure my time can be spent more usefully than running to taco bell for you after a hard day of typing on your computer.

Just to use an already overly used phrase,

I'd rather die standin
than live on my knees.

edit on 18-2-2011 by Screwed because: (no reason given)

As long as you believe those are your only options, you have already been defeated. I am neither in danger of death by an invading force nor living on my knees. Glad to see you are familiar with the sandwich eating position already though.

Originally posted by randomname
the american citizens are vastly, vastly undergunned to defend it's self against the u.s. military.

that's EXACTLY what the British thought in 1770 as well
and were proven very wrong.

innovation and technology is countered by
adaptation and elusiveness.

You cannot defeat a populace, me thinks this
was evident from Korea, Vietnam and more recently
Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Allies only won WW2 cuz the populace of the
countries Hitler invaded, wanted us there.

Originally posted by Aliensdoexist
Any kind will do i guess, you'd probably die and I would too along with millions of others but I'll be damned sure that I'd be taking one or two of them with me to meet our maker.

Your response makes no sense at all. I see a lot of goal post shifting being done in order to mischaracterize what I actually ASKED. Why is it so hard to have a discussion on the actual grounds of what is being said?

I asked what gund I would need to DEFEAT the invading army. I did not ask what guns would be best for taking someone with me. Those are two completely different ideas. How can you say "any kind will do" in the same sentence you state that the goal of DEFEATING them will not be met?

I hope none of this ever happens in America but if it ever were to happen unarmed citizens will be looking to armed citizens for support and safety and to try and put a stop to the madness.

I guess I have a very different view of the world based on what it ACTUALLY is. It just seems better to actively work to maintain a good society than to sit around polishing my guns, waiting for it all to go to hell.

Although having a whole brute force onslaught in a country the size and the #'s of people in America it would be impossible to sustain for a prolonged invasion because the logistics involved would be mind boggling.

I think you greatly underestimate the power had by the people that control every infrastructure within the country. Without fuel, elecricity, clean water, etc...the fat, stupid, Real Housewives of whatever watching American is going to wither and die before a shot needs to be fired.

I am not going to sit in my mountain shack, sharpening knives in the hopes that one day I can take out at least ONE soldier in an attempt to protect on average people such as in this thread that have told me that as a woman, I should sit back and cook.

Instead I will get off my keyboard from time to time and take a part in the society I live in now and take an active role in shaping the future for generations of Americans yet to come. Hopefully someday that will result in fewer sexist computer mercenaries taking a bold stand against imaginary enemies and lead to productive and intelligent populations living in notice of the majority they share, not the minutia that divides.

reply to post by boondock-saint

WHile I agree with the spirit of your statement Boon, the British did not employ these modern tactics that would qualm most crowds.
LRAD
Microwave Weapons
MRAD

Granted a worse case scenario would be a bloody engagement, but with a 3+ billion dollar budget, I don't think we'd come out ahead in such a situation. And NO, I'm not crying "victim" here, just making an attempt of realistic scenarios.

Peace,
spec

reply to post by Sinnthia


Victims can NOT and NEVER will understand the mindset of a warrior.
Warriors can NOT and NEVER will understand the mindset of a victim.

The are now two pages proving this theory of mine.
Let's not make it three.

I am wrong you are right,
enough of the derailing.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Did the davidians make the US turn and run, tail tucked between its legs...

or...

did ramping up military force result in a lot of innocent dead people?

Just trying to be realistic. How do people propose the typical American be as armed as the military?

Yeah, but we're talking a dynamic 360 degree environment here. Not a bunch of misfits holed up in a compound like a bunch of sitting ducks.

Fact of the matter is: any sort of combined action against the citizens would be met with an inconventional force. Whether it be the US govt vs. the people (which I would never like to see in my lifetime, I love my country and I have utmost respect for the young people in the armed forces.) or any foreign invading force. These people would have to fight inch by inch, street corner to street corner. Multiply this by the vast enormity of the US population, any military force would be hard pressed to claim even a small victory.


Now lets add an interesting dynamic: Hunters. Each of which own a weapon, have you counted the number of licensed hunters in the US?

Now lets go a step further: Former military vets who are now civilians (who would do anything to protect their families and homeland).

Lets add: The general armed population.

Don't forget active and retired police.

Don't forget the competitive shooting community.

Fact is: the Vietnamese who live in a country smaller than New York held several Armies at bay for how long?

Truth is: Pissing in the American people's cornflakes would be a costly mistake.

First of all, the US Military couldn't be in every city, in every state. The US is a big place and they would be spread too thin, if there was a national uprising, that is.

Secondly, we have this "holier than thou" image to uphold, and brute force and slaughter of US citizens would probably cause the entire world to finally turn on the us, and the dollar would be worth the warmth it creates when you burn it.

I think guns are necessary, our forefathers knew what they were talking about; but most of the people that own firearms are gun-toting, fox-news-watching republicans. It would take a hell of an event to get those people as a whole on the streets.

reply to post by Screwed


You and your vigilante buddies are stood together protecting what you value or think is important and you have fought off the invading armies, the back slaps and pride are in abundance. Then the whistle is audible, it becomes a roar and it is overheard you look up, then you realise that the battle was won but now the war is lost as the bomb hits home and everything/one you loved is nothing and never was.

Just wanted to add this little nugget to show the where and some whys over there.
www.cnn.com...

spec

reply to post by SparkyP


Yeah, that's right sweet nutz,
It's called.....DIEING!
It's been done before.
We're all going to do it.

Sometimes it's what you have to do in order to throw off the riegns of oppression like the heros in Egypt and Bahrain.
Like our forefathers did when they told King George where to stick it.
They were out numbered badly. I thank God,Allah,Jeebus, and the flying spaghetti monster that they had the balls to die for, not their liberty, but MINE!
I'll die for yours not mine IF Spaghetti Monster forbid, things should ever get to that point.
I hope they don't.

Victims will NEVER understand the mindset of a warrior
Warriors will NEVER understand the mindset of a Victim!

EVER!
Now run along and come back with a smart assed little post and prove my point.

Originally posted by SparkyP
reply to post by Screwed

 

You and your vigilante buddies are stood together protecting what you value or think is important and you have fought off the invading armies, the back slaps and pride are in abundance. Then the whistle is audible, it becomes a roar and it is overheard you look up, then you realise that the battle was won but now the war is lost as the bomb hits home and everything/one you loved is nothing and never was.

How many people are going to fly, fuel, and load the bombs on these planes, and drop them on their fellow countrymen in a time of revolution?

Not many. Even if this were the case, I'd much rather die this way than hiding out hoping it'll all be over soon.


If there were a small contingent of Military that actually were willing to fight his own countrymen (very doubtful) They would be easily fought with guerilla maneuvers.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by Aliensdoexist
Any kind will do i guess, you'd probably die and I would too along with millions of others but I'll be damned sure that I'd be taking one or two of them with me to meet our maker.

Your response makes no sense at all. I see a lot of goal post shifting being done in order to mischaracterize what I actually ASKED. Why is it so hard to have a discussion on the actual grounds of what is being said?

I asked what gund I would need to DEFEAT the invading army. I did not ask what guns would be best for taking someone with me. Those are two completely different ideas. How can you say "any kind will do" in the same sentence you state that the goal of DEFEATING them will not be met?

I hope none of this ever happens in America but if it ever were to happen unarmed citizens will be looking to armed citizens for support and safety and to try and put a stop to the madness.

I guess I have a very different view of the world based on what it ACTUALLY is. It just seems better to actively work to maintain a good society than to sit around polishing my guns, waiting for it all to go to hell.

Although having a whole brute force onslaught in a country the size and the #'s of people in America it would be impossible to sustain for a prolonged invasion because the logistics involved would be mind boggling.

I think you greatly underestimate the power had by the people that control every infrastructure within the country. Without fuel, elecricity, clean water, etc...the fat, stupid, Real Housewives of whatever watching American is going to wither and die before a shot needs to be fired.

I am not going to sit in my mountain shack, sharpening knives in the hopes that one day I can take out at least ONE soldier in an attempt to protect on average people such as in this thread that have told me that as a woman, I should sit back and cook.

Instead I will get off my keyboard from time to time and take a part in the society I live in now and take an active role in shaping the future for generations of Americans yet to come. Hopefully someday that will result in fewer sexist computer mercenaries taking a bold stand against imaginary enemies and lead to productive and intelligent populations living in notice of the majority they share, not the minutia that divides.

edit on 18-2-2011 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)

Well truth be told there is no gun that can beat an army but millions of guns can. There are also very common and legal rifle rounds that will punch right through body armor with ease. There is no weapon that is perfect for every single situation or scenario that is why the Government spends Billions of taxpayers dollars every year trying to find, they came very close 70 years ago with Nukes but have yet to top that, at least that we know of.

Most battles would not be Civil War style everyone standing in battle lines 50 yards in front of the enemy. The battles would be more like Game Hunter's going out in the woods stalking their prey and taking that shot only when it feels right patiently waiting for the animal to get in just the right position for a quick humane kill, which is the same tactic that military snipers employ everyday, hunters use these same tactics too and probably 90% of gun owners are hunters and well trained in these tactics just a different type of animal. If you've never hunted then it does me no good to try and explain to you because you will never understand. Only fools would go running around shooting the town up John Wayne style.

And no I'm not sitting around waiting keeping my guns polished, they sit safely inside my humidity controlled gunsafe and their main purpose for me, is competion shooting, some hunting and lastly to defend myself and my family's lives if that need ever presents itself. By no means am sitting around hoping remake my own version of the movie "Red Dawn", and I do contribute to society, I work at my job 5 days a week, and photography on the weekend to support my upper middle class lifestyle paying taxes and doing my part to support millions of people that are cheating the Welfare and Disability Systems.

Originally posted by Screwed
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Victims can NOT and NEVER will understand the mindset of a warrior.
Warriors can NOT and NEVER will understand the mindset of a victim.

Is this a quote from some fantasy novel you are reading? Anyway, I highly doubt that any regular person will stand a chance against the military, however if the leader of America decided to make its army shoot at its own people, I think the situation would be more similar to Egypt, I don't think the American army would go against Americans. However I don't think whats happening in those countries will spread to the west, it won't happen.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
I am afraid this "perfect" example is a tad less than perfect.

Maybe I am missing something very basic here but I am sure someone can help me out here. If the US government decided to roll the military of planes, ships, armored vehicles, teams of foreign born mercenaries, high tech weapons, body armor, control of the power grid, gas, water, etc into my neighborhood. Exactly what guns do you suggest me and my neighbors keep on hand to defeat the US military on its on turf with? I will start buying them right now.

Well gee with such devastating firepower you'd think they'd have cleaned out a few thousand insurgents in robes with AKs in Iraq and Afghanistan after ten years of trying.

In what country do you think resides the most well armed, well trained (hint: US military veterans ), most resourceful, guerilla army in the history of the world, three guesses???

80 million gun owners with 150 million guns. There is a reason the US Marines motto is "Every Man a Rifleman"! Not to mention the impossible logistics required to control the land mass of the USA.

There are two shcool of thought on this subject:
1/ Drop all weapons everyone live in pieace soldier and civilian are alike...we are all brothers and sisters...blah blah blah....God will the judge.
2/ Stand up for what you believe and die fighting.
I personally choose the second option because I know the judicial process that God run is too f-ing slow....by the time he finally delivers his judgement.....it'll too late.

Originally posted by iamaperson

Originally posted by Screwed
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

Victims can NOT and NEVER will understand the mindset of a warrior.
Warriors can NOT and NEVER will understand the mindset of a victim.

I highly doubt that any regular person will stand a chance against the military

It's not about "standing a chance"
It's about TRYING.
If you win, you are free!
If you lose, YOU DIE!!!
How is this so hard to understand????

Ohhh, wait.
I know.

Victims can NOT and NEVER will understand the mindset of a warrior.
Warriors can NOT and NEVER will understand the mindset of a victim.