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Military chaplain: Soldier's rape 'must have been God's will'

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posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I'm Jewish. I believe in free will and divine providence. I am not a dualist, meaning I don't believe in an immortal soul/mind separate from the body or the causal physical universe.

Instead, only G-d is acausal and we are wholly dependent on neshama or "divine breath", some say spark, for existence. When the spark or breath returns to G-d, our bodies return to the dust and our being or nephesh ceases to exist. For some this is thought of as type of sleep, as they are eventually "awakened" in the World to Come. For others it is total annihilation from existence.

In this belief, we are totally responsible for our actions and inactions. We have free will, but we are subject to the causal universe.

In such a belief system, G-d doesn't grant requests for horror and suffering. There isn't any place for one to will such things upon one's self either. To accomplish such horror, would require another agent. Meaning it would have to be done physically by the person, another person, or being.

An example would be a child born with cancer. One has to look at the facts surrounding the birth. Where was the child born? What substances did the mother consume? What was the health of the father? Etc.

A child born among pollution is neither the child's or G-d's will. That was a choice of the mother, i.e. where to live.

A mother who consumes alcohol, drugs, and pollutants isn't the child's or G-d's will. That was the choice of the mother to consume harmful subtances. If she didn't know she consumed contaminants, those at whatever company that released or sold the contaminated substances made the choice to sell or pollute.

A father who has a cancer history of his own isn't the will of the child, the father or G-d. The mother made a choice to mate with the father. If she didn't know his history, then he bears some responsibilty for the child's condition.

Looking at the world this way, shows that the vast majority of suffering in the world is not the responsibility of the victim. Someone somehow made a poor choice and through their choice they have inflicted suffering on their fellow man. There are far reaching consequences for everything we do in life.

The male soldier who chose to rape the female soldier, bears ultimate responsibility. He made a decision mentally and acted physically upon it. It was his will to rape the female and he will be held accountable for it.

The chaplain, if he actually said those things, has in his own way inflicted more trauma on the victim. He too should be held accountable.




posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by DevilJin
The chaplain is siding with the military to keep order.


So the idea that women being raped is the Christian god's will is an official stance of the US military now?
Seems to me, he is just saying something incredibly stupid and displaying he is not fit for a position in any military because he is justifying the rape of an innocent by GUESSING his imaginary friend wanted her to be raped. Can you please clear up how he is "siding with the military" with that sort of nonsense? I think if that is the official view of our military, then it should be more widely known.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 06:56 PM
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Didn't anyone read the linked PDF of the lawsuit? While what the chaplain said was ignorant and unexcusable, he had the mildest thing to say and was just not helpful. The secular authorities in the military said and did far worse to these women up to and including putting them in harm's way. That is according to the lawsuit.

After reading what happened to some of these women after reporting the rape/assault to the secular authorities it is quite possible the chaplain knew they would torture her. Maybe the chaplain tried a misguided attempt to get her to leave it alone knowing it would save her some grief. However, he still should have tried/done more to help. The military had paid professionals counsel them on some of these matters and they did exactly opposite of their reccomendations just to torture people who reported rape.

Another chaplain got one victim out of being locked up on board a ship with two people who gang raped her. After her Command purposefully locked her up with them. Re: Petty Officer De Roche. Of course, that chaplain didn't make the story.

On a side note, I am disgusted with my military.
edit on 18-2-2011 by GTORick because: Re: Petty Officer De Roche.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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Typical.Don't trust religeous leaders.They to turn a blind eye to things,and pass it off as "God's will".
Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You would think that they had learned there lesson after all the sex abuse lawsuits.
I challenge you religious folks out there to explain"Gods will" on this.
Freaking hypocrites!!!!!!!

Agnostic,not athiest here
Have thought that way since I was 15 years old.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Yes I can see the current stte of the planet right now, but I can also see that it can be explained by any means one deems necessary to quiet the voices in our head, or rational thought, as we sometimes call it,
I`m saying that its never a good idea to mix religious beliefs without the proper historical sociopolitic context, religious beliefs and the meanings of our concepts are derived from something that happened where humans didn't have a clue about the nature of the phenomena, according to the textbooks of course.

We can all believe anything we want, but to really get a bigger picture one needs to dig in deeper, loosing and gaining many things along the way!

But something we should not be insensible to is rape, in any manner or form, it has been tabooed throughout history for the same reasons, although, the exception defines the rule, the only times when rape "wasn't a big deal" was during wartime, where survival took many shapes and sizes, and one needed to adapt loosing our very "moral tapestry".

It speaks a great deal of the times we live in when the men of god tells us in our darkest hour: ¡SUCK IT UP B_TCH!





posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 



he told her that 'it must have been God's will for her to be raped'

That's fine if that's the precedent he wants to set. So when she pulls out her service revolver and shoots him with it, that was just God's will. Sorry, chaplain. Nothing personal. Just God's Will. Carry on.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by LordBucket
 

I have a funny feeling Satan would come into play right about then?

Maybe not.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 
this is appalling i just cant see the logic in putting females in harms way if this can happen in your own group what is the world coming to reporters : female in war zones are a target for this sort of behavior some would call them infidel so it does not matter . remember the armed forces attract all sorts of psychos it gives them free reign to do what they want enough said oh and thanks for the protection GOD !!!



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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...this deal isnt about some nitwit misogynist chaplain or xtianity or karma or whether or not you believe in a deity... however, as this deal was presented in the op, sigh, it was a no brainer that the core issue would be derailed by varied apologists and anti-apologists (or whatever)...

...this is REALLY about the military refusing to make male soldiers behave themselves...

...the same dysfunctional mentality that rapes a female soldier is very much like those who would beat up a gay soldier... this is being covered up or dismissed as "well, thats what happens when you mix females and males (or gays with straights)" - but - what that really means is that the government is promoting (and has been for a long time) the lie that straight men cant control their sexual urges or gender paranoias...

...there are 16 or 17 women challenging this cover-up and they're just the tip of the iceberg...


Last year, the Pentagon reported there had been 3,230 complaints of sexual abuse by members of the military services during fiscal year 2009, an 11 percent increase over the year before.

But Pentagon officials acknowledge that most cases go unreported — and of those that do, department figures indicate less than one in four ever get criminally prosecuted.


www.nbcphiladelphia.com...



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by Wyn Hawks
 


I think it is unfair to disregard this thread because it doesn't immediately tackle the larger sweeping issue at hand which I am sure DD is aware of (and is even mentioned in the OP). I think the whole point was / is to discuss this specific part of the whole and decide on this specific part of the whole story.

Not everything should be or needs to be going after the larger issues, especially when one is obviously aware of the larger issues and feels a small portion of the larger issue should be examined that might lead to clues as to the larger issue.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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I'm not religious but this is TOTALLY connected to religion! I, to a point, understand why religion is trying to be snuffed but we must NOT let spirituality be snuffed also! Unless we want a society completely and totally dependent on science then we should overlook the spiritual overtones of this story. If we are for (and only for) science then we are asking for trouble because we should always be looking for anything that can/will advance our species beyond the point of where we are. the more points of view there are the more advanced our societ can and will become. I defend religion ONLY because it may allow another POV...but I will and always reject crimes such as this.

Peace & Respect & may the innocent rest,

AS



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by AeonStorm
 


What crime are you talking about? The Rape? Thats not in question and is universally rejected albeit covered up by certain secular military officials. Or do you reject the crime of what the Chaplain did? In which case I take exception because I don't believe he committed a crime or even behaved in a misogynist nature nor was he representing Christianity in a negative way. He was definitely misunderstood though!



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Thus proving once and for all that all forms of religion need to be eradicated!


I don't believe this to be true at all! Although I'm not religious I do believe religion DOES serve a purpose! The problem comes from the misappropriation of POWER. I believe this is done on purpose because there is much to be learned based on faith .....Think of a scientist who has a hypothesis. This IS a form of belief but is not based on reality. The hypothesis is based on reason and logic and I believe that MOST religions were once based on this but was diverged due to want of personal power.

I'm a person of spirituality but this does not mean that one day what I believe will be based upon a religion! ....DOWN with ppl who take a belief and use it for personal gain!!!!

Peace & Respect,

AS



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Thus proving once and for all that all forms of religion need to be eradicated!


nah...never will happen...too many naive and ignorant people in this world for that to occur. they need a deity to lean on. helps them deal with their own imperfections, fears, hopes, and responsibilities.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by Jinglelord
reply to post by AeonStorm
 


What crime are you talking about? The Rape? Thats not in question and is universally rejected albeit covered up by certain secular military officials. Or do you reject the crime of what the Chaplain did? In which case I take exception because I don't believe he committed a crime or even behaved in a misogynist nature nor was he representing Christianity in a negative way. He was definitely misunderstood though!


Could you elaborate on the "misunderstood"? ...As for the rest, what is or is not considered a crime can be PERSONALLY interpreted! I cannot believe that such an atrocity could ever be perceived as justice (but that is me).



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Thus proving once and for all that all forms of religion need to be eradicated!


nah...never will happen...too many naive and ignorant people in this world for that to occur. they need a deity to lean on. helps them deal with their own imperfections, fears, hopes, and responsibilities.


Are you talking about personal beliefs or religion that has become cult? I believe in something that is 'like' God but is not personified and has a much more broad definition. I believe that "God" is what connects us all and allows us to communicate with everything in our reality. God for me is what 'glues' everything together. I know what I've done..I know my imperfections (as much as anyone can know. WE ALL need HOPE, and we all take responsibilities whether we know it or not!

BTW ... If we did not have hope we would no be here. We always hope...If you did not you would not be here on ATS.
edit on 18-2-2011 by AeonStorm because: added



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Thus proving once and for all that all forms of religion need to be eradicated!


nah...never will happen...too many naive and ignorant people in this world for that to occur. they need a deity to lean on. helps them deal with their own imperfections, fears, hopes, and responsibilities.


Religious people are not naive and stupid. Your statement here though, is about as closed minded as it gets.

I've heard people talk tough like this before.Then I went to Iraq. I heard the same people pray to almost every religion and deity at one point in time. Everyone said a prayer at one time or another.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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So if someone put a cap on his ass then it must have been God's will, too.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by the_0bserver85
So if someone put a cap on his ass then it must have been God's will, too.


I think you are looking to much upon a religion that has been built by a person/ or group that has been trying to gain power. What you are referring to is an individual/or groups will!!



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by AeonStorm
 


This is personal level .... not a group level (not yet it is).



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