Military chaplain: Soldier's rape 'must have been God's will'

reply to post by Whereweheaded

Yes, headlines and words definitely do have the power to lead people where they want people to go. And certain words trigger responses in people. Sometimes very heated responses.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


I think you illustrate an important point. Nobody can ever know what happened when only 2 people are present and both have different stories... All you can do is measure who has what to gain by making something up, look at a person's character and past record, and all in all exercise that the old noggin to come up with what you choose to believe.

Also what you choose to believe doesn't have to be the truth, you want it to be, but it doesn't have to be. You weigh the evidence and believe what your mind tells you is most likely.

That is what we are all doing here and that is why there are disagreements because we all have different experience that leads us to different conclusions.

reply to post by getreadyalready


In order for that viewpoint to be valid, one has to believe in "spirits" and also believe they have a separate reality from the physical body. Yet, at the same time, one also has to believe that the "spirit world" and spirits are apparently subject to the physical dimension of time.

It also requires one to believe that "spirits" go up levels from experience like characters in RPGs.

I don't subscribe to any of that.

reply to post by Jinglelord

The reason bad things happen is because nobody really wants life to be roses and tea.

That is a cop out. People blame G-d. People blame Satan. People blame the victim.

You realize what this does? It removes responsibility.

At the same time it causes people to buy tons of useless books and sit on their behinds wishing their lives would get better instead of actually getting off their butts and taking real action to make their lives better.

Will is only one component. Without action, will is nothing. Real magic happens when real action is taken.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I only disagree with two points. One is our perception of time doesn't mean the spirits have to live according to the same rules. So that would be a misconception.

The other point is that spirits must move up, I stated that there are probably some moving down, and some moving so far down as to cease to exist and die.

Removing those two constraints, is it still unbelievable to you? What is your religious belief?

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I think your spot on for the most part. A question I raise to those who claim " im going to hell", well if I don't believe hell exists, than how can I be damned to an arena I don't believe is even there? Good Points Mike.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Maybe we're not moving up or down and it's like a bucket list but for spirits?

I happen to like RPGs and who are you to say they don't mirror life? Some very intelligent game designers spent a lot of time trying to make them mirror life. I hear this a lot used as a tactic to belittle a belief. I say so what? Those games become popular because they operate in a form similar to reality people are familiar with.

And finally what I am saying is anything but a cop out. I am saying there is none to blame save yourself. You are ultimately responsible for your life on every level, and possibly the fight to improve it or the release to send it to oblivion. All your choice from beginning to end.

reply to post by Jinglelord


Free will right?~ Thats my mantra~

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Seriously, the victim goes to the chaplain to be consoled and basically, she gets a "you had it coming" or "you deserved it". Why? Because it was god's will.

&

edit on 18-2-2011 by Aggie Man because: (no reason given)

How on earth do you get "you deserved it" from "it was God's will?"

I'm agnostic but doesn't this guy probably believe that everything that happens is God's will?

Sorry, I don't see what the big deal is.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Free will but far deeper than most imagine. I believe everything about your life including how you look who your family is and even those things that happen to you in life are all your choice. Essentially I believe in the divinity of the individual. "Thou art God" Heinlein was a smart cookie if you ask me...

reply to post by Jinglelord


The free will I agree with, but as for your deeper " issues" , not so much. But thanks for the continued contributions to this thread. Its always good to get a feel for ones psyche ~

Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Seriously, the victim goes to the chaplain to be consoled and basically, she gets a "you had it coming" or "you deserved it". Why? Because it was god's will.

&

How on earth do you get "you deserved it" from "it was God's will?"

I'm agnostic but doesn't this guy probably believe that everything that happens is God's will?

Sorry, I don't see what the big deal is.

Because god gives one what they deserve...god gives one what they have coming to them...it's god's will. That is, of course, if ones believes in god, which I don't. Thus the at the end of that sentence.

What part do you think is no big deal? The rape or the allegations that the chaplain blew off the woman's need for comfort?

reply to post by Aggie Man


So you don't believe in God, yet you assume you know what is and is not God's will? Or how that is meant?



eta:

What part do you think is no big deal? The rape or the allegations that the chaplain blew off the woman's need for comfort?

How do you know the chaplain actually blew her off? There's only the ONE QUOTE even in the legal brief. There's no context, the full story isn't there. So how do you know?

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

So you don't believe in God, yet you assume you know what is and is not God's will? Or how that is meant?

My beliefs and assumptions aren't really the topic here, now are they. Can I not contribute and give my 2-cents w/o someone making it personal...especially a mod.

reply to post by Aggie Man


First YOU brought up what YOU believe and in the context of this conversation it is relevant because you portent to know what is an is not god's will.

Secondly, we only have one quote that is attributed to a chaplain we know nothing about and have no facts on.



I get it, mods are here to agree with you. And if we don't it's off topic....

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Because god gives one what they deserve...god gives one what they have coming to them...it's god's will.

I've never in my life heard any one explain the idea in that way... so... you think religious people believe that kids with cancer etc. etc. "deserve it" when they say that it's God's will?

Originally posted by Aggie Man
What part do you think is no big deal? The rape or the allegations that the chaplain blew off the woman's need for comfort?

The chaplain saying that it was God's will, not a big deal.

Where do you get the idea that he blew off the woman's need for comfort?

Op - did you purposefully decide to blow off the main story? The Chaplain is but part of a systemic problem...

Plague of Violence - victims sue Pentagon

It may become a landmark case to force the military to take rape and sexual assault seriously. Or it could be yet another failed attempt in a decades-long battle by women to be accepted in the armed forces.

Seventeen veterans and active-duty service members today took the first step to determining that, suing the Pentagon on charges of violating their constitutional rights to serve their country.

They accused two secretaries of defense of condoning, ignoring and implicitly encouraging sexual abuse in the ranks in a 42-page complaint filed in federal district court in Alexandria, Va., which contains phrases like "f---ing whore," "bitch" and "troublemaker."

Originally posted by TheOneEyedProphet

Originally posted by Akragon
God had nothing to do with it....

Other then the fact he created Karma...

Could I please get to read the same books you read, in order for me to understand what you posted, where does it show that god created karma? anywhere?

Karma is a religious concept coined by some Hindi beliefs based on their geographical location and onthologic social interactions and accumulations, , dont get me wrong, , but I believe we westerners are upside down in our beliefs and in our actions, we do not comprehend the things we speak of, because we do not care to do so, and have let in the hands of others our personal development.

In order to grasp the meaning, the whole meaning of karma and not just the TV implanted pseudo conceptualizations, you would have to be hindi, and follow any of the vedas to the letter, not just the spirit.

Its like saying one believes in Moses and Abraham, but not on the Torà, or the one believes in saints but is Christian, it makes no sense.

Its in the way we speak and try to put into words what we think the best indicator on the development and advancement of any given society, right now, yeah the interwebs might connect and allow us to know stuff, this global village decontextualizes the meanings behind the concepts, and therein lies the tragedy and the loss...

BTW, regarding the topic, since I was a young lad , the few women that went into the military have had a clear and present danger of being raped, It happens, many just decide to keep quiet, besides they signed off their civil rights, and nothing much can be done.
It is the sad truth, those are the real concerns behind women serving in mixed combat, we are weary of our own troops, and nothing can be done, because what could be done would mean CHANGING the whole system, as institutions are fractal reiterations of the main social structure...

Well if you believe God created everything, then he obviously created Karma wouldn't you think?

I've read a few books on Karma, and managed to draw my own conclusions on the subject. The basic idea is all things have a concequence no matter how small or insignifigent you might think they are.

Its my belief that all the horible things that happen are due to whatever you did in your past lives. It answers the question..."If God exists why do bad things happen to good people" That "Good" person might have been a murderer in a past life. That person that gets raped more then likely raped someone in a past life.

This idea can be used for anything in this life that one might say, well why did that happen?

Imagine how many murders, rapes, tortures, and any other attrocities that happen every year...every day for that matter. Now consider human history and the insane amounts of disgusting behaviours that's happen through out the milenia...

With what i said in mind, can you see why the world is in the state its in?

Indeed the worlds Karmic debt would be unbelieveable.

I think it should be Gods will that he's tied up in the women's barracks where he can learn the true meaning of "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"

reply to post by LadySkadi

Exactly, but easily explainable too, no? The headline sets the tone and leads and influences the dialog, and there are trigger words that set people off no matter what the actual topic is. This is a case I've been following since at least 2006 (other cases came prior to that), and it quasi-sickens me to see it boiled down to this kind of bickering.