Baghdad wants U.S. to pay $1 billion for damage to city

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I agree with the you in a sense, but as you stated above:

This wasn't a war, it was an illegal act of aggression and those who benefited from it should be punished. Not us.

Knowing that the monies, if distributed will come from non-other than the tax-payer, so in theory, it is " us " that will ultimately being paying for it, so I suggest let them rebuild their own country. Maybe they can rebuild it better than we could anyhow? Did that ever cross your mind? that maybe, just maybe they are better off with out our assistance~

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The US should have to pay for the destruction...not to mention killing hundreds of thousands of their citizens. Why shouldn't we have to pay for such an extreme act of violence and war?

Really? American troops killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens? Based on what exactly?

Here is a slightly different accounting...

Iraqi Civilians Killed, Estimated - On October 22, 2010, ABC News reported "a secret U.S. government tally that puts the Iraqi (civilian) death toll over 100,000," information that was included in more than 400,000 military documents released by Wikileaks.com.

A UN issued report dated Sept 20, 2006 stating that Iraqi civilian casualties have been significantly under-reported. Casualties are reported at 50,000 to over 100,000, but may be much higher. Some informed estimates place Iraqi civilian casualities at over 600,000.

usliberals.about.com...

Note that the UN says that casualties are reported at 50 to 100 thousand (hardly "hundreds of thousands").

...but "may be" much higher (based on nothing). Oh, yes, some "informed estimates" say over 600,000 (again based on nothing).

My speculation (based on similar nothing) is that Iraqis have been responsible for as many, or more, Iraqi deaths as the U.S. during this conflict.

Are you calling on Al Qaeda in Iraq (Bin Laden is a billionaire too), to pony up for the destruction they are responsible for...or is it only the evil USA who needs to pay up?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

It's quite another to go in, guns blazing and try to FORCE democracy on a country that's not ready for it.

how do you know they werent ready for it? ME revolutions that are spreading would be on the contrary?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler




It's a tough question
Should we pay them? Yes

What will happen after paying a puppet govt.?
Nothing but the same!

Now... should we still pay them?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
What about all the schools and hospitals we built? The roads and infrastructure we fixed already? I think I'll just patiently wait for Slayer to come along and post his photos of Iraq before and after. Those pictures speak volumes.

Thanks for the U2U invite but no pictures will do.
We invaded that country for all the wrong reasons, Other than to get rid of our old Cold-War puppet. We subjected those people to great hardships and now we have to and should pay for our mistakes. I've stated numerous times all across these boards that I didn't support the war/wars but do support the soldiers [They have no say on the matter] and that if people didn't like the situation we are in then they should use the system to change that.

The problem is that still a large percentage in the US still support [within reason] the conflicts. It is all about oil. There is no way around that. I've written a few threads on the topic. With China's rise and soon India's the US/West moved in as a precaution. Iraq was a touch down and Afghanistan was a field goal attempt [OR a hail-Mary pass] depending on how you look at it in order to have a strategic advantage.

reply to post by SLAYER69

We've already paid is the point here. But way to go off topic with most of the rest of the people in this thread.

My U2U request was for the pictures you posted in another thread when they were convenient to support your argument about this very thing when someone made a statement saying we owed them. Way to play both sides when it suits your needs Hope you get lots and lots of stars.

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Did that ever cross your mind? that maybe, just maybe they are better off with out our assistance~

Oh, so now that we've stuck our foot in it and completely destroyed their country because of greed and based on lies, we should give them the opportunity to clean up our mess without our assistance? Jesus Christ! What kind of logic is that??? That's insane! And no, it never crossed my mind. I'm in the habit of paying for my mistakes. It's called personal responsibility.

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
how do you know they werent ready for it?

Yeah, they were asking for it. Kind of like a girl who gets raped 'asks for it'. Your arguments are ridiculous.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Im just trying to under your psyche? Yes the US actions were an act of aggression, but could those actions be preemptive? Much like the move on Hitler? Regardless of agreeable actions or not, it is a war...no buts about that? And with war comes casualties. Its a fact of life, and a fact of War. With the amount of money we have already spent in the infrastructure rebuild process, that being roads, embassies..etc...and the on going efforts, we've paid back...and more. Yes its a shame of the loss of life, on both sides of the spectrum, and maybe someday we can get the hell out, but until then we will have to wait and see if democracy works for them? And if it does, I hope you'll be the first to admit you were wrong~

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

My U2U request was for the pictures you posted in another thread when they were convenient to support your argument about this very thing when someone made a statement saying we owed them. Way to play both sides when it suits your needs

Hope you get lots and lots of stars.

"Support my argument"?

Assumptions should be avoided.

My stance has always been we are responsible for our actions, Having said that, the US should not be blamed for every cocka-maimy tin-foil-hat conspiracy out there. AND when the US is dragged through the mud for no other reason than to just slam the US Yeah I go after the poster with facts.


.

I think we should pay up and get the hell out of there. No need to state my reasoning, as I believe Benevolent Heretic has covered it well.

On a side note, I watched an HBO documentary last night called The Battle For Marjah. For anyone that has not seen it, I recommend it. The documentary, filmed by an embedded journalist, follows a company of marines, as they try to take control of a Taliban infested town.

The reason I brought this up is because there is one segment, in which the marines killed the wife and children of an Afghan farmer (collateral damage). It shows the emotions the marines face after learning the results of their actions. Furthermore, it shows the marines having a "sit-down" with the husband/father as they attempt to offer their condolences, along with a little "blood money" in the sum of $2,500 Afghan dollars per soul taken. It was a sad proposition all around.

Point being, that they paid directly to the victims family, which is probably the appropriate way to handle such things. My fear with Iraq's demand of $1-billion, is that there is huge potential for corruption in letting Iraqi officials dole out the funds.

Anyhow, if anyone is interested in the documentary, here is a link with a synopsis and a preview. It really is worth watching, as it will rid you of many preconceived notions of what is going on over there....it will also confirm some of those notions as well.

HBO Documentary Films Presents – The Battle For Marjah

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

We've already paid is the point here. But way to go off topic with most of the rest of the people in this thread.

My U2U request was for the pictures you posted in another thread when they were convenient to support your argument about this very thing when someone made a statement saying we owed them. Way to play both sides when it suits your needs

Hope you get lots and lots of stars.

edit on 2/18/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

You know if you pay close attention to the War Mongerers it seems the only thing they imagine was hurt by the invasion of a sovereign nation based on fraudelent and deceptive intelligence and pretexts is their feelings.

Like too many decent people on both sides of the conflict didn't end up dead, maimed or otherwise seriously injured by the war.

But heck it hurts their feelings when we talk about the USA not being perfect, so you know heaven forbid...

I often suspect the people who will argue that it's wrong of Iran to imrpison a known terrorist like Rigi who once showed Dan Rather a video tape of himself beheading a person, is just the machinations of people being paid to argue and promote war no matter who they have to get in bed with to do just that.

There never seems to be any moral argument, even a strong strategic or tactical argument, just don't criticize the USA, or the process of war because it hurts our feelings.

It's a shame people who have to make it all about them, can't see that the damage caused by the corruption and stupidity hurts a lot of people in a lot more significant ways than their superficial egos that lead to their self serving tempertantrums.

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
so I suggest let them rebuild their own country. Maybe they can rebuild it better than we could anyhow? Did that ever cross your mind? that maybe, just maybe they are better off with out our assistance~

Yeah that's a pretty weird and immoral way of looking at it.
We go in there, illegally, completely destroy the country's infrastructure and murder a huge amount of civilians.... occupy the country for 8 years and then you just want to leave and do nothing to help?

Man.....


We shouldn't have gone there in the first place..... It was illegal.


People think that the banking collapse is the main and only cause of the financial ruin..... How about

As of February 2010, around $704 billion has been spent based on estimates of current expenditure rates,[1] which range from the Congressional Research Service (CRS) estimate of $2 billion per week to $12 billion a month, an estimate by economist Joseph Stiglitz

en.wikipedia.org...


And I wonder who is making money from this?

Hmmmmm

Why have we been there for so long.... Hmmmmmm


It's a joke.


The rich few and certain companies have made a killing (excuse the pun) from this occupation (It's not a war btw) and continue to do so.
We don't involve ourselves in war for humanitarian reasons, despite what your politicians and media may have you believe.... we involve ourselves for profit and resources.

I agree that reparation should be made for the damage done to the infrastructure of Iraq by both American AND UK forces. I also think that the US and UK governments should NOT be the ones to pay for it. The ones who ought to pay for it are the US and UK based contractors who have gained business from the war, the insurance frauds that went along with it, and so on and so forth, and the private parties (Bush and his buddies, and Blair and his pals) who actualy benifited from that war.
The US hasnt benifited one iota from that fight, creating as it did more terrorists than it killed, and for the same reason, it hasnt benifited the UK either. Futhermore it has in the opinion of those who love liberty and wish thier governments to respect the liberty of other nations, destroyed the image of both governments in the eyes of the very best of thier own people. Now a freedom loving person would rather crap razor blades, and vomit molten rock than do a damn thing for either government, apart maybe, from removing the ruling parties completely and starting afresh.
The real instigators of this event should be the ones to pay for it. The right wingers who let it all happen while rubbing thier hands together, and circle jerking round thier stock options should probably pay a bit too. Anyone who gained a buck, when they should have been loosing thier lives for treason, should pay for it, either with thier money or thier life.
However, most know all too well that taking money from someone who has the organisational capacity and the outright hatefulness to pull off the instigation of an illegal war, probably has great ways of hiding the proceeds of that battle, and therefore its going to be extremely difficult to get them to pay up.
I think its pretty deplorable that the law doesnt allow every cent earned from that war to be absorbed by the collection fund and ploughed back into Iraq to help rebuild those vital infrastructural elements that have been damaged during the occupation,and to rebuild the lives of those who remained when the dust had settled.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


You're kidding, right? You really missed the context of that statement? Obama and his successors will for years be cleaning up one Bush-created mess after another. The massive gov't debt is just one of them. I aint crazy about how Obama is going about cleaning up that particular Bush-mess, either, but it is Bush's mess he is tasked with cleaning up.

reply to post by kunuk


the answer is that they have been (and are being ) kept far from unthinking and reasoning.

they had a dictator and now they have a dependent governmant rulling the country.

some of them that understand are being abused by some extrimist secret societies to do suicide bombing.

we are sorry but some one should teach them how to think and reason.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Don't play coy. I assumed nothing, but let me spell it out in a clearer fashion for you so that you don't attempt to use my own words against me and also use me as a stepping stone to not only change the subject pretty much entirely but to make it appear as if you are somehow disagreeing with something I said to simply be able to interject a point you want to make at this moment, which just happens to not only be unrelated to what I said but also off topic in many ways. Just be brave and make your own point. Don't bounce it off my entirely different point. I should have said "It was okay to use to support your argument of that moment to support how you feel we have improved Iraq with our presence there but is not okay to help me illustrate my same exact point here." Thanks for playing.


reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yes, their defensiveness and smokescreen rationalizations only become clearer and more feeble as well as more desperate and transparent as time goes by. Sigh.

reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic


I understand your complaint, but do you honestly believe, that all the atrocities of our government started with Bush? Im sorry to inform you my friend, but things started going south way back in the 60's. Things just culminated from there. And no Obama, wont have to clean this up for years, he wont be around for much longer....( hopefully)

Isn't it normally the losing country that has to pay reparations for the damage caused during the war? So I guess we didn't win? lol...

We've spend $750 billion in Iraq looking for WMDs and one guy (saddam).. what's another billion to fix the holes in their capital city? Pretty sure we've already spend at least 10x that much building bases and roads to nowhere. Geez, the place is such a money pit to put our government in debt, but the weird thing is A LOT of companies made huge profits off the war, probably greater than the money our government spent. So, it technically helped our overall economy. That's what a self-sustaining economy is.. haha

If you throw in Afghanistan for $380 billion that’s $1.2 trillion added to our national deficit in less than 10 years. Wasn't Osama's overall plan to bankrupt the U.S.? Then in 2007, while we were are all focused on finding terrorists in between sand dunes our economy crashes and the Federal Government adds another $2-3 trillion to our country's debt. I'm not trying to say Osama caused the recession or anything because Al-Qaeda doesn't exist as the global terror network of cells hiding in caves as they are commonly portrayed, but someone sure is trying hard to bankrupt us. The whole world?.. because it is the only way to stop our world domination attempt?

Given the fact that the invasion into Iraq was well planned before 911 and that 911 was the excuse used to invade Iraq, absolutely the US should pay this amount. Matter of fact, George W, Dick Cheney, Condo Rice, Donny Rumsfeld should be sued and made to repay all of it to Iraq. Perhaps Halliburton could step up and bail them all out?!

Yeah, well good luck with that... the US already pumped millions into their country just to bring them up out of the stone age.... I don't see congress running off to sign any checks... even if they take us to the world court it could take decades if ever they see a penny... Ali Baba shouldn't hold his breath on that one... one of those poop in one hand and wish in the other then see which fills up first?