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Helen Thomas: Jews not persecuted since Holocaust

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posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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Oh come on people.. the number of people killed in the Bolshevik Revolution alone, dwarf the numbers of the so called holocaust.
Oh and the SEVERAL million chinese killed after WW2 and lets not forget Pol Pot.Oh what about the multiple genocides that have gone on in Africa in a very recent time period?

Why do Palestinians attack jews? Maybe because land was taken away from them to create the New Israel.

Has anyone seen the maps that outline the amount of land that Israel occupied not to long after its inception, compared to the land they occupy now?
It has grown considerably, they took the best land for farming and water etc.. and left them with the scraps.. Id be pissed too.




posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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She's not entirely wrong.

Yeah, yeah everyone's persecuted in some way or another. It's what you do with it that really counts. And as a whole, they've gotten a lot of mileage and a lot of benefit from it, sometimes at the expense of others and of history. Clever people.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
If africans continue to come to the U.S. then why not?


I'm not entirely sure I've got your drift, but are you saying that Africans continue to come to the US, despite being persecuted in the past ?

It's a different situation, because there was a huge influx of European Jews to Israel in the late 1940s and early 1950s, which was only a few years after the Holocaust.

Would there not be a huge migration of black Americans to African countries if the US had systematically killed millions of them between 2003-2008 ?

That would be a comparable situation to the post-WWII Jews emigrating to Israel.


Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Not only that but isn't it illegal to be a holocaust denier in Germany and Austria?
How is that not the govt. appeasing to them?


I don't personally agree with that legislation, but those two countries are understandably a bit touchy on the subject.

The ban on Holocaust denial, displaying Nazi insignia, and such, is largely to stop another similar movement gaining a mainstream foothold in those countries.


edit on 18-2-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by ~Lucidity
She's not entirely wrong.

Yeah, yeah everyone's persecuted in some way or another. It's what you do with it that really counts. And as a whole, they've gotten a lot of mileage and a lot of benefit from it, sometimes at the expense of others and of history. Clever people.


I agree that they are a clever people but not for the reasons you suggested, it doesnt take a clever person to exploit and manipulate, you just have to find the weaknesses of who or what youre trying to control.
In their case, the worlds weakness is fear of the anti-semitism label, they know this and the exploit the hell out of it.

The one thing i do give them though, is the fact that they truly stick together in a world thats so divisive, thats one thing that has helped them more than anything else, i believe.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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At the risk of veering entirely off-topic I would like to say that it appears to me, (for whatever that is worth) that people don't need an excuse to persecute, vilify, defame, or denigrate each other.

If it isn't one group on the "We are the most oppressed" bandwagon... it's another. If it isn't a race, it's a religion,. or a gender, or any other demographic one can imagine.

"Produced history" (strengthen the facts...diminish the uncertainties.... dilute non-contributory elements .... some call it 'propaganda').... not for the purpose of edifying our collective planetary culture... or protecting historical reality for posterity's sake .... but for advancing leverage for narrowed (and usually more immediate) purposes...

And then there are the predatory evolutionary throwbacks who USE that reality to justify actually doing it...

and no... not ONE SINGLE "group" of people is innocent of it..... no matter how much lip-service they pay to the notion of universal equality... they always seem to have a caveat to apply to their 'wisdom.'

Name any group ... they have oppressed someone... and probably still do.... and most - if not all - say "that's different.... we're justified" .... by tradition, culture, historical offense, doctrine or dogma, blah blah blah....



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Im not knee jerking. I am saying that she is categoricaly wrong in her statements and that there are only two possible explanations for this, deliberate ignorance which suggests a bias, or being poorly informed. It is NOT the case that Jew bashing just STOPPED dead after WW2 , thats horse crap. She either knows this and ignores it to further her argument, or shes just an ignorant fool who should quit flapping her gums without a clue what shes talking about!
There are some very good reasons why reporting ceased on this subject after the end of the war, and that is that in comparison to having droves of Jews packed into trains and sent to burn or work themselves to death, the issues they had after were not as bad, but saying they werent as bad as that, is like saying you would rather have your appendix burst, than have your heart stop beating. Both are deadly threats.
Now, I happen to agree that the ISRAELI government should quit hassling the Palestinians, BUT , that is not a matter of Judaism vs Muslims . It is a case of corrupt government officials vs a people who havent the power or tools to defend themselves adequately against a superior military power. The fact that she is confusing the Israeli government with Judaism at all marks Helen Thomas as a singularly badly informed , or just plain anti semitic person who should have quit public speaking while she could keep a civil tongue in her head and some sense in her statements.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by mayabong
 


You are right, the outcome would have been the same so long as the invaders weren’t Muslim. Or did I miss the Muslim nations uniting against Iraq when they invaded Iran or the Muslim nations uniting against Syria when they invaded Lebanaon?



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by Sherlock Holmes
 


Well, I think I get her drift. The correlary is similar. You have Liberia, which is a country that was founded and colonized by freed American slaves. That country has always been in turmoil. And the other aspect is that even though many many people of African descent were enslaved, killed, and tortured during the few hundred years of American support of slavery, there are still people today who migrate to the US from America.

As far as how it correlates to the Jews immediately following the collapse of the Nazi regime. Most of the German people were NOT anti-jew. But I can see how the atmosphere might be enough to make Jews want to leave.
edit on 2-18-2011 by rogerstigers because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by wcitizen
reply to post by SirMike
 


There definitely have been other programmes to wipe out huge numbers of people, the genocide in Russia for example.

For some reason the other genocides, some of which involved much greater numbers, don't get the same publicity as the WW2 'holocaust'. This might be something to do with the fact that the Zionists control most of the world's mass media.


I would argue that the reason these acts of genocide haven’t gotten the same recognition as the holocaust has more to do with left wing politics than anything else.

The Nazis were despised by lefties, most of the other regimes not so much. They loved the Soviets, ChiComs and Khmer Rouge.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by SirMike
 


Which is odd if you think about it. NAZI means national socialist party... but then again.. they were more like the national elitest party. *shrug*



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by rogerstigers
 




Italian fascism was originally an offshoot of the left wing syndicalist movement. After transforming into what is recognizable today as “fascism” and gaining a toehold to power, it sought to either co-opt political opponents or eliminate them like all totalitarian movements do. Communists and socialist, not generally predisposed to share the reins of power with anyone, were among the groups targeted eliminated, explaining the animosity that the left has for fascism. Because it wasn’t any grand ideological schism that caused the animosity as left wing movements used nearly identical tactics and organizing methods, it was essentially a turf war.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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I kinda laugh about the whole "returning to germany" bit because its really no big secret
that Jews were given prominent roles in the german govt during their version of "reconstruction"



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by rogerstigers
Well, I think I get her drift. The correlary is similar. You have Liberia, which is a country that was founded and colonized by freed American slaves. That country has always been in turmoil. And the other aspect is that even though many many people of African descent were enslaved, killed, and tortured during the few hundred years of American support of slavery, there are still people today who migrate to the US from America.


I think the comparison was awry because the poster was mentioning people emigrating to a country, 40 years after people of their race were last legally discriminated against, whereas I was mentioning people emigrating from countries where their people were systematically killed and tortured only a few years before.

An accurate comparison to African people moving to the US nowadays, would be Jewish people moving to Europe in the 1980s, which must have occurred many times.

Liberia, I think, is a better comparison, as it's perfectly understandable why many black Americans decided to migrate there after being freed from slavery, just as it was perfectly understandable why many Jewish people from former Nazi-occupied countries would wish to move to Israel so shortly after the Holocaust.

Many European Jews did opt to stay in Europe after WWII, as well.


Originally posted by rogerstigers
As far as how it correlates to the Jews immediately following the collapse of the Nazi regime. Most of the German people were NOT anti-jew. But I can see how the atmosphere might be enough to make Jews want to leave.


Jewish people suffered from a lot of discrimination pre-WWI in Germany and Eastern Europe, so they weren't to know that that was going to largely abate in postwar years.

In the 1960s, before black people achieved full Civil Rights, the majority of white Americans may not have been anti-black, but that wasn't much consolation to those who had to suffer from the ones who were.

Even if most Germans weren't anti-Jew, that didn't prevent the Jews from being systematically killed in their millions by a regime that governed that country.


A large number of European Jews moving to Israel after the War is entirely understandable, and this group - along with the Jews already living there - provided the initial Jewish majority in the country.

So, I think that Helen Thomas is completely wrong on this.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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Double Post.


edit on 18-2-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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1. Discrimination happens everywhere. So rather than to courageously confront it, fight for one's right, find common grounds for co-existance, one should flee, as the jews in Europe had fled?

MLK should have led black americans back to Africa then.

The Chinese community leaders around the world should then lead their flock back to China.

The english queen should then lead her people including australians and americans back to France and Rome, and leave the english isles to the picts.

The indians should lead the indonesians and malays back to India and leave S.E asia alone.

The arabs occupying the ME should head back to Iran, etc, etc.



2. The nation of Israel has a choice today - either to free the palestinians, live together as multi-racial democratic nation, or be destroyed as a Nazi styled exclusive Zionist facist entity that had been guilty of crimes against the Jewish people for 2 centuries.



My point is - What had happened had already happened. Mistakes and choices had been made. While we cannot and can no longer alter our past, we can STILL change our future, for the sake of our future generations and mankind. Are further corruptions and wars to be our legacy of doom for the next generations?

That choice is in yours and my hands today. Individually, we have no power to effect change. But when combined with awareness, discussion and debates with our family, relatives and friends, we are a power to be reckoned with.
edit on 18-2-2011 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
1. Discrimination happens everywhere. So rather than to courageously confront it, fight for one's right, find common grounds for co-existance, one should flee, as the jews in Europe had fled?

MLK should have led black americans back to Africa then.


A large number of Jewish people left Europe in the years after WWII because they had been killed in their millions only a few years before; many had lost their entire families.

It's all very well people offering pronouncements from a lofty perch, with the benefit of hindsight, on what they think the Jewish people should have done, but to not understand why people would want to take an opportunity to move to a place where they no longer would be a persecuted majority or victims of genocide, shows not only a lack of understanding of human nature and a lack of empathy, but also suggests an agenda.


It is not a valid comparison to compare black people staying in the US before they achieved full Civil Rights and equality with Jewish people staying in Europe only a couple of years after they had been subjected to genocide of monumental proportions.

Martin Luther King was campaigning when slavery was not within anybody's living memory. The issues at the time were legal and social discrimination and the segregation of black Americans.
This was similar discrimination to that which the Jews had faced in many parts of Europe for hundreds of years before the Holocaust.


I certainly wouldn't have blamed any black American for emigrating to an African country anytime before they were granted full Civil Rights in the US.

I think the reason so few black Americans did this, and why Liberia was not a success, was mainly for two reasons: firstly, even living in poverty in the US was far more economically preferable to the conditions that you would enjoy in 19th century and early to mid 20th century Liberia. This was the only place in West Africa that black Americans would realistically emigrate to to avoid persecution, as all the other territories at the time were still under European colonial rule.

Secondly, black Americans had very little in common with the native Africans of the time, other than sharing skin colour. They were of different ethnic groups, spoke a different language, followed a different religion, and generally had a different culture and customs. All of those factors would have made moving to Africa a less than enticing prospect.


These factors were far less significant for European Jews leaving post-WWII Europe for Israel.
The mass emigration in the late 1940s was predominantly made up of Jews from former Nazi-occupied countries in Eastern Europe, where those who weren't left homeless or displaced by the War, tended to either live in poorer rural areas or ghettos. A move from these surroundings to the newly formed country of Israel was not necessarily economically imprudent.

While Jews throughout Europe would have formed their own sub-cultures within the different European countries that they lived in, they still largely shared the same religion, customs and culture, while many would, at the very least, have some understanding of a common language. This would make a move to Israel far more appealing and less of a culture shock than black Americans moving to Africa.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit
Jewish people are still persecuted, and I know that because there are still Nazi networks running all over Europe and the US.


"Hated" and "persecuted" are two different things.

There isn't any unified persecution of Jews going on right now, just random hate groups which "Hate" a LOT of people besides the Jews.

Some of the most powerful people in America are Jewish, and they make up a majority of those listed as the most powerful in the entire world.


Jews dominate in Vanity Fair power rankings

It's a list of "the world's most powerful people," 100 of the bankers and media moguls, publishers and image makers who shape the lives of billions. It's an exclusive, insular club, one whose influence stretches around the globe but is concentrated strategically in the highest corridors of power.

More than half its members, at least by one count, are Jewish.
J-Weekly


The Jews are doing just great.
Again, a group of people that Hate another race doesn't equate to persecution.

That would be on a grander scale, much more obvious as proven in certain times in our history, and the affects couldn't be readily ignored.

Find me ghettos full of poor Jews, then we'll talk about "persecution".

- Lee



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by SirMike
Very few groups of people have faced organized efforts to wipe them out and the Jews have faced several in just the past 100 years.


This is a sad misconception and proof that so much focus on the past helps us to ignore the present.

Just so you know there have been PLENTY of attempts to wipe out certain groups of people in the world but the Holocaust is merely the most famous.

Acts of genocide have taken place all over the world and as recently in the last two or three decades.

In Rwanda, Darfur, Cambodia, Srebrenica, China, Ethiopia, East Timor, Equatorial Guinea, Guatemala, just to name a few. Systematic annihilation of hundreds of thousands, and millions, has occurred before and after the Holocaust.

I often wonder why those that are so quick to condemn one Holocaust, turn a blind eye to all the others raging around us right now, or the signs of those yet to come?

- Lee



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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Apparently she does not visit ATS much



Amazing that a swath of land about as big as the DFW metroplex can cause so much hatred throughout the world.



posted on Feb, 20 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 
Helen Thomas is idiosyncratic in claiming as a Lebanese she is Semitic but Jews aren't, mistakenly believing that Israelis either originated in Europe or that they became European by living there, when in fact they are Egyptian. By contrast most Jews, who have not analyzed Charles Darwin, believe they came from Ethiopia and that the Click Clicks, who guard the Ark Of The Covenant, never evolved and are therefore genetically identical to the negro Adam who married his sister Eve after the messiest divorce in history from Lilith, who he described as a demon. The most infamous of all the white Jews is Adolph Shiklegruver Hitler, who fought with god to force him to establish a Third Reich for the yellow and orange-haired Aryan people who created him in their image, and determined he was from Persia, where pure Jews who have not mixed with Arabs to devolve into Semites have IQs three deviations higher than Black Africans, all of whom believe they are Cherokee Native Americans and many of them have official tribal membership cards from the U.S. Interior Department Bureau Of Indian Affairs to prove it. By the way, ModernAcademia, can you email me a copy of the Thanksgiving Day card Raist gave you depicting several indigenous Terrapin tribeswomen about to gang bang a Pilgrim who thinks our continent is Israel? So you think this is Atlantis?



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