Out of body experiences just the product of a confused mind

Would they say hallucinations are a product of a "confused mind?" When you meditate and see things with your mind, it is not because of a confused mind, you literally see physic things in your mind. Some may say this is imagination, okay, so imagination exists, it's real, you can see it, even touch and experience it, it may confuse you, but "confusion" does not cause it, confusion is a nothing, it causes nothing. And there is always the self beyond the imagination to consider as well, the hidden self which sees but can not be objectified.

reply to post by filosophia

Would they say hallucinations are a product of a "confused mind?" When you meditate and see things with your mind, it is not because of a confused mind, you literally see physic things in your mind.

Yes, your mind is confused because you are seeing things that are not there. It is relatively easy to confuse your mind; ever seen an optical illusion?

reply to post by Griffo


How do you account for the studies that have been done in operating rooms and such, where items were placed high above the room,out of site and previously unknown to the subjects,who after dieing on the operating table,give a testimony and desribe the objects and where they were as they were hovering above their bodies?

Originally posted by Griffo
Whoa, it seems I've offended a lot of people here

I probably would have got less of a reaction if I had started a thread entitled: "Jesus said abortions were ok"

Well at least scientists are trying to explain away all of the mysteries in life, instead of people rambling on about higher levels of consciousness and vibrating energy levels. We might not have all the answers now, but I'd rather trust people in white lab coats to find out the answer

I would prefer to trust my own experiences rather than some guy in a white coat. Learn the techniques for OBE's try it for yourself and then decide.

Did these scientists put in the necessary work to acquire the experience themselves or did they observe their experiments from a distance? An actual participant in OBE's is far more trustworthy than a guy in a white lab coat observing the experience.

btw those who practice spirituality by exploring consciousness themselves are the ones who are actually exploring the mysteries of life.

Try it, you'll like it.

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by bargoose
I don't understand why science seems to be scared of the possibility of a spiritual facet to reality.

It isn't scared. Proponents of "a spiritual facet to reality" don't have the evidence to demonstrate that their claim is valid.

If you were completely blind with no ability to see and I were to describe the color blue to you. You would have no evidence that what I am saying is real or true. Just because you can't see the evidence doesn't mean that blue doesn't exist it just means that you don't see it because you are blind.

The problem isn't with the evidence, it is simply that you are unable to see it. The easy solution is for you to learn how to have OBE's and find out for yourself.

BS..
when you have an OOBE , you have a continous consciousness, so you will know , without doubt.

Originally posted by madscientistintraining
no, I have spoken with a friend who at one point in their life literally clinically died, out of body experiences cannot be explained by science, and any scientist who thinks they know the facts need to look again.

for example the case where a blind from birth woman had an OBE and after being revived was able to describe the colours and patterns of the medical workers uniform AND the numbers on a label ON TOP OF a celing lights shade.

getting a little sick of the usual crowd of sceptic physisists and biologists coming up with bs for things they don't understand...like this anti laser, what else blocks light hm let me think, A WALL...idiots.

edit: not to even begin to mention remote viewing.

edit on 18-2-2011 by madscientistintraining because: (no reason given)

Wrong.
Science in a while, will come to explain everything.

Originally posted by madscientistintraining
for example the case where a blind from birth woman had an OBE and after being revived was able to describe the colours and patterns of the medical workers uniform AND the numbers on a label ON TOP OF a celing lights shade.

erm... how exactly is a blind person going to describe colours, patterns and numbers?

reply to post by Griffo


No offense, but I have been having obe's since the age of 12.. I'm 31 and believe me they are real. Those planes/dimensions are where we come from and incarnate here. From this perspective, it is like looking into a house through a keyhole. While out of of body, it is the complete opposite. Mainstream science has a long way to go before they catch up to our true reality.... Jc

reply to post by infojunkie2


Can you give us a link to this study? I've searched many times for evidence of OBE's and have never came across any legitimate scientific proof, so if you could share this I'd appreciate it.

I've had both experiences. I've had the "confused mind" experience countless times as I drift in to sleep. I have had one truly legit OOBE, and another that was pretty amazing.

They have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to AP, they haven't seen a true OOBE for themselves even. I know the kind of experience they are talking about here, and it isn't interesting or exciting. It's not a lucid experience, there is no control, it's like how the room spins when you've had a ton to drink. A proper OOBE is a vivid experience where you have a great deal of control. And it's an unforgettable experience. I can promise you I've forgotten 99% of my "confused mind as I fall asleep" experiences, they are not noteworthy and hardly worth study. Time would be better spent studying optical illusions, they are not coming close to simulating an OOBE with this experiment, if it wasn't so sad it would be more funny.

What they have done here, and have done in the past is like going on the playground and playing on the swingset, then using that experience to pretend to write an article about skydiving with real authority.

I'm a first time poster on ATS, but i just want to say that too many people on here are taking a stance of science OR OBEs. I personally do not think that the science here disproves OBEs spiritual value just because they can mimic the mental state artificially, all it has done is give a possible real world explanation for OBEs. In the same way that a scientist would not accept OBEs as a religious phenomenon, they are also unlikely to say that this is a full explanation, and even if it was a full explanation, does it discredit their spiritual value, or simply allow it to have a real world context of how it can occur, in a physical world, all phenomena should be explainable, so when science gives an explanation, it shows that these things genuinely occur, many cultures around the world use hallucinogenics to induce religious experiences, scientists have proven that this changes mental states to allow for (perceived) religious experiences, but is it really less valid even if it is induced? or just a means to achieving a religious experience, arguably meditating is attempting to induce a religious experience, and im sure people would be more hesitant to claim that achieving a religious experience through meditation is invalid. I do not claim to have had an OBE, or even necessarily believe in them, but i just wanted to give a fairer scientific interpretation.

Those scientist need to have an OBE then confirmed what it is, because honestly there is too many detailed reports of OBE's happening to many people that it's pretty ridiculous to ridicule this phenomenon.

A thing to tell these scientists is to try Astral Projecting and then give me your conclusion of a confused mind, you could be the ones that are confused. There are a lot of paranormal and spiritual things that are yet to be debunked but scientist lack the courage to experience first hand to debunk these areas of life.

reply to post by SparkOfSparks6


They are not trying to ridicule the phenomenon, they are simply trying to explain how it occurs. That fact is, there is proof right there that OBEs can be induced by confusing the mind.

There is also proof that this phenomenon is merely chemicals in the brain as you can induce OBEs by taking dissociatives or hallucinogens.

Originally posted by Novise
I've had both experiences. I've had the "confused mind" experience countless times as I drift in to sleep. I have had one truly legit OOBE, and another that was pretty amazing.

They have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to AP, they haven't seen a true OOBE for themselves even. I know the kind of experience they are talking about here, and it isn't interesting or exciting. It's not a lucid experience, there is no control, it's like how the room spins when you've had a ton to drink. A proper OOBE is a vivid experience where you have a great deal of control. And it's an unforgettable experience. I can promise you I've forgotten 99% of my "confused mind as I fall asleep" experiences, they are not noteworthy and hardly worth study. Time would be better spent studying optical illusions, they are not coming close to simulating an OOBE with this experiment, if it wasn't so sad it would be more funny.

What they have done here, and have done in the past is like going on the playground and playing on the swingset, then using that experience to pretend to write an article about skydiving with real authority.

Well said! It's amazing how some people think that they will know what an OOBE is by watching someone else do it. Even worse there are those who think they will know what it is after analyzing a piece of paper written by someone who was watching. Yet when someone gives them first hand techniques and experiences they scoff.

You may not get a diploma in OOBE's that you can hang on your wall but you certainly get answers when you experiment yourself.

sometimes a mind has to be confused as all get out in order to glimpse the amazing.

in reality dazed.

in the brain amaze
a maze
realize
what is real

sometimes gotta get knocked silly for the monkey to get skaken out of the house with 5 windows.

Ohnoz.
My brain needs to be fixed
I've had multiple OOBE's throughout my life.

Originally posted by Griffo
reply to post by SparkOfSparks6

 

They are not trying to ridicule the phenomenon, they are simply trying to explain how it occurs. That fact is, there is proof right there that OBEs can be induced by confusing the mind.

There is also proof that this phenomenon is merely chemicals in the brain as you can induce OBEs by taking dissociatives or hallucinogens.

That is very interesting, thanks for posting it.

When I was 17 I went through a difficult time suffering from what is called depersonalization/dissociation disorder triggered by stress and abuse while I was 5-8. It was the worst experience of my life and fortunately the disorder subsided. I would feel outside of my body as if I was watching myself in a movie. Reality was so warped and the sensation was unbearable at times. My brain was releasing chemicals as a protective measure from what I later learned.

reply to post by CourageousEyesoftheHeart


Exactly, and as others here have said: these scientists that want to dabble in this stuff should at the very least have experienced an OOBE for themselves. Something with a bit of legitimacy, a spontaneous experience, or something induced through methods such as Robert Bruce's methods. Not something where they confuse their mind in a lab and decide to label it an OOBE.

In Lucid dreaming, you have wonderful scientists who are PHDs in fields such have psychology, that have experienced lucid dreams AND lucid dream regularly. That should be the standard. If you are going to pretend to get involved in the science of something of this nature then you should have first hand knowledge of it.

The two fields are very similar in that you have people who believe and people who don't. Now, whatever is happening in an OOBE, there are people who can create this experience for themselves as distinct from a lucid dream. And there are people who do not believe it possible. Just like you have people who can create lucid dreams for themselves as distinct from non-lucid dreams. And there are people who also, do not believe it is possible.

So the OOBE scientists need to either have had this experience for themselves legitimately (the only way they can really know what it is they are studying) or get out of the field.

The lucid dreaming scientists have done this. You aren't a lucid dreaming scientist unless you are practically a lucid dreaming master, from the books I've read. So what's wrong with these OOBE scientists? If they are so smart and wise why can't they keep up with the humble lucid dreamers?

?? I'd like to understand what their definition of OOB experience is?

Do they mean that they made someone's mind essentially act like phantom limb, where they made someone see part of themselves where that part was not?

I suspect that their idea of a controlled "similar" experience to OOB was more accurately similar to Phantom Limb.

And how do they suppose that this phantom limb experience is essentially the same as an OOB? By what criteria are they drawing this parallel or is this merely assumptive on their part?

I suspect that saying "Phantom Limb Syndrome is the Productive of a Confused Mind" would not have been as sensational for these scientists, eh?