It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

2012: End of the World - Skeptics vs. Believers

page: 3
1
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 10:25 AM
link   
reply to post by DocEmrick
 



Denying a pole shift is laughable

The problem with the term pole shift is that it is used in many ways that differ from the original meaning as defined by Hancock. A pole shift as originally defined is a change in the orientation of the rotational axes. It is improperly used to indicate a change in the orientation of the magnetic axes. It is also improperly used to describe a magnetic reversal. This has led to a great deal of confusion in many threads.

Pole shifts as originally used by Hancock are not possible. There they are described as rapid events, some occurring within the last 12,000 years. The best understood event of this type was an event 800Ma that took 15My to complete. This is more properly termed a TPW or true polar wander.
Combined paleomagnetic, isotopic, and stratigraphic evidence for true polar wander from the Neoproterozoic Akademikerbreen Group, Svalbard, Norway

Geological studies show no TPWs in the last 200My although there has been a small amount of change during that time, but no single incident.
Apparent and true polar wander and the geometry of the geomagnetic field over the last 200 Myr

A proposed event from 84Ma has been disputed and is generally seen as a mistake in the interpretation of the available data.




posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 07:54 PM
link   
reply to post by stereologist
 


Interesting. I was always on the bandwagon of a shift in the Earth's axis leading to internal and external chaos and change. Any theories on the Mammoth/Flowers encased and preserved in ice?



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 09:21 PM
link   
reply to post by DocEmrick
 


The notion of a pole shift was proposed by Hapgood as a way of explaining what he thought looked like a map that was too good for its time. He conjectured that an advanced civilization existed at the time of the last ice age, but was destroyed somehow. He thought that maybe they lived on Antarctica. That would be possible if the continent were further north, away from the South Pole. Then he imagined that if the crust slipped over the surface of the Earth that suddenly the civilization in a once temperate zone were thrust into bitter cold it would be covered up and all traces covered by miles of ice. It's important to consider the time frame for his proposal. It's the early 1950s. At that time people knew little about the ocean floor. That means 69% of the Earth was virtually unknown. Plate tectonics was not an existing theory. Today so much more is known of the Earth that pole shifts in the sense of Hapgood or Hancock are known to be impossible. Such rapid events are not going to happen.

The Mammoth story is old. Velikovsky mentions it. I'm not sure how old it is. The fact is that very few mammoths have been found. Most of the finds are single bones or a tooth. Thomas Jefferson had a tooth. A few finds have included flesh. There are only a handful of mammoths that are somewhat intact. These were animals that were drowned in mud. Trapped in the deep mud, the bodies avoided decomposition. The food they had just eaten was not digested and did not decompose either. Later the bodies were frozen in the tundra.

The claim of flash freezing is wrong. Nothing was flash frozen. Most mammoth finds are just bones and the partially fleshed skeletons show extensive decomposition before being frozen in the tundra.

Lyuba - baby mammoth - wikipedia
From this we learn that the baby mammoth died about 40,000 years ago on the Yamal Peninsula of Siberia.

So here is a journal article on the place.
Russian Arctic
Take a look at p367. There is a simple table called fig 9. At the time of Lyuba we see that the place was a shallow lake. This is followed by regional glaciation. Then it becomes a shallow marine or deltaic environment.

The flash frozen claim is that there is a pole shift and the mammoths are flash frozen. Are these pole shifters going to claim that there must have been another pole shift to switch the environment back to a condition it had before the previous pole shift? The change in climates as evidenced by the sediments found in the location show that the climate varied.
edit on 23-2-2011 by stereologist because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:26 AM
link   
I don't think that 2012 is the end of the world. But the end of this cycle, and a new time begins.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 12:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by DocEmrick
reply to post by stereologist
 


Interesting. I was always on the bandwagon of a shift in the Earth's axis leading to internal and external chaos and change. Any theories on the Mammoth/Flowers encased and preserved in ice?


The mammoths actually drowned. Talkorigins has a very nice page on what exactly was found, the age of the different mummies (there's about a 40,000 year range) and the locations and so forth.
www.talkorigins.org...



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 08:39 AM
link   
2012.12 is close to us.but there is no more evidence,i think most proponent do not have strong evidence.just live as usual and waiting for the result.i do not believe.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 09:04 AM
link   
Well one of the sides will win the argument when it comes to 21.12.12 but I must say I am more on the skeptics side on this one.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 01:49 AM
link   
I do not think that December 21st, 2012 will be the end of the world.....With that being said, I do however believe that something will happen. I think that the Illuminati has something big planned for that day. Maybe what they have planned will help them with the NWO or something else?



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 08:03 AM
link   
I think dark forces operating through a an almost endless multitude of means, will get the 'end-of-the-age' battle they have prepared - very nearly anomymously - thousands of years for. Their god - blinded by pride and envy - will lead his equally blind followers, into a war against the Self-created All-father, that he can't possibly win.

Why can't he win? Beacause all dark forces are completely dependent on the forces of light for their existance. They probably don't know this though. On the grand scheme of things, they're just petty trouble makers that that are only afforded success via anonymity.

Maybe all light will be liberated from matter and the kingdoms of light and drakness will be separate again.



...or maybe nothing will happen - I haven't decided what I believe.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 08:19 AM
link   
reply to post by Robert Reynolds
 


I love these made up stories where people post things like

Beacause all dark forces are completely dependent on the forces of light for their existance. They probably don't know this though.

Those involved don't know, but people on the sidelines do even though those involved have been preparing for thousands of years. Right.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 08:25 AM
link   
reply to post by stereologist
 
Your post makes no sense whatesoever. I would explain why, but it if you were really interested you could apply your clearly adequate intellect to it and deduce that for yourself.

I wonder how many people genuinely interested in truth even bother reading most of your - or Phage's - posts.

Know any good jokes?



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 08:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by Robert Reynolds
I think dark forces operating through a an almost endless multitude of means, will get the 'end-of-the-age' battle they have prepared - very nearly anomymously - thousands of years for.



.


you must be referencing the Armageddons & Apocalypse' of th ancient sect of Essenes and the iconic War Scroll

and of course the historical Albert Pike and the 'roadmap' that depicts 3 World Wars, and who will be the players in the final WWII armageddon.


We are attaching the Armegeddon meme to the 2012 date, the Maya did not... they only said there would be maize and squash for some and little if any for others during the final 19 year period which supposedly reaches climax on 21 - 12 - 12 or is it 12-21-12 i get my months & day protocols mixed being both European and American.

(i also use the knife with my right hand and fork in the left which is characteristically euro)



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 08:54 AM
link   
reply to post by St Udio
 
It's all a bit tongue-in-cheek really, but it's based on all sorts of old wriiten stuff with a little bit of instinct (or delusion - I'm not sure which) thrown in.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of any prophecies to be honest. I doubt anyone knows the full picture, except that God fella.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:31 AM
link   
reply to post by Robert Reynolds
 



I would explain why, but it if you were really interested ...

That's a nice way of saying you have no idea what you are saying. Cute, but no cigar.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Robert Reynolds
 


The corn and squash prophecy is from a Mayan calendar which is not the long count calendar. I suppose for some the low corn yield must mean not enough bourbon to go around.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:52 AM
link   

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Robert Reynolds
 


The corn and squash prophecy is from a Mayan calendar which is not the long count calendar. I suppose for some the low corn yield must mean not enough bourbon to go around.


correct, but the 4 Ahau katun prediction of the maize & squash is the final 19 year period of the LongCount calendar. as far as i understand it from other authorities...

what is important to note is that each ~19 year period is characterized by a theme or motif.... which was very much intertwined with the Maya culture some 500 years ago.... and not some foreign, technologically sophisticated society that has harnessed the Atom with fission and fusion bombs and wireless internet devices



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:14 AM
link   
reply to post by stereologist
 
'Nice' and 'cute' seem rather inappropriate words to describe what I've written. I wonder, did you opt for them merely for effect?

If a certain group of people were preparing to go to war against another group of people, I see no reason to assume that they must be aware of their relationship, maybe they're simply ignorant as to the facts. If I were to plan an assault on an individual, that doesn't neccessarily mean that I know anything about him - he could be a long lost cousin for all I know.

Or maybe the plan is not to destroy, but to imprison.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 01:43 PM
link   
Ahh yes, 2012. *big breath*
========================


I, like may here, have been following and or aware of this topic for a long, long time. I've come to several conclusions:

1. It is very exciting to think something good might happen. This romanticism has mass appeal.

2. It is very terrifying to think it is going to be catastrophic. This is probably the single worst thing about the 2012 phenomenon.

3. It is ridiculously hard to buy into much of any of it. Especially since none of the proponents really agree with each other and just about everything you can possibly imagine has been tagged with 2012, including things like:

  1. you will ascend to a new level of consciousness
  2. you will get Jedi powers like levitation and telepathy and telekinesis
  3. there is going to be a mass reveal of benevolent/malicious aliens
  4. Earth will finally join the Galactic Federation of Planets and send Representatives to the council of Saturn (
    )
  5. The Earth will spin in the other direction
  6. The Earth will experience a sudden magnetic pole shift
  7. I mean ... the list goes on. I'm sure they're Christian books saying Jesus is coming back in 2012.
  8. Oh, and of course, unbridled destruction through various means of mother nature.


4. If there was REAL science behind 2012, there would be some sort of agreement on the subject within the community, and in fact, there is. There is a lot of science you can study about the Mayans and their ways. The Long Count Calendar is a very interesting thing to read about. Unfortunately, the real science does not in any way suggest I will ascend to the ranks of a Jedi Master and travel to Saturn ...


5. The VAAAAST majority of everything you read about 2012 is being propagated by (a) charlatan, just look for the buy-me button, (b) a misguided researcher [usually just a veiled charlatan, look for the buy-me button], (c) a layman, like you or me, who has bought into the aforementioned and feels the need and desire to spread their wonderful discovery ...

Skeptics win for now. But it is fun to think I'm going to become Jedi soon

edit on 15-8-2011 by TimeSpiral because: Grammar

edit on 15-8-2011 by TimeSpiral because: List was broken ...



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 02:12 PM
link   
reply to post by TimeSpiral
 
I would seek to become your padawan, but I don't think we will work well together. First of all you think we are going to Saturn, when everyone knows that we are going to Europa. It was in that one movie called 2010.


-saige-
edit on 15-8-2011 by saige45 because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
1
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join