What If California Split From The Union If The Dollar Collapses.......

Mods move this please I'm not sure where to put this thought... So Say if/when the dollar collapses and the Federal Gov is trying to pick up the pieces California (the former 7th largest economy in the world) decides they can make it without Big Gov??? Is it Possible?? I'm not saying turn our backs on the World or any of our Neighboring Countrymen/women in any way (please keep in mind)...I'm posing the question if we banded together in the worst of times? Could California become a major economy again if we didn't pay billions to the Feds to Rob Us and squander our resources?? Would they even allow it or would they declare war on the former U.S. Citizens??Some would say well who would protect California without the U.S. Military. We could be like Guam or something like that offering them free use of our ports and land in exchange for Protection in case of invasion but we would't pay them taxes or be obligated to feed and produce things to supply wars and secret wars that we have no knowledge or buisness with in other countrys. Also we wouldn't be subject to Treaty's signed by Big Government so we could actually develop and use the technology they have been repressing. Think of it no big banks no big brother just a small Government Monitoring the resources of the state an providing them to whom we the public sees fit..California is able to feed our whole nation as is right now and when all is said and done thats what true wealth is, it's good food and water. Gold is just a monetary way of putting a number on those items (besides scientific purposes)... We can't survive on gold but we do need it for technology... Any thoughts on this?? If California was to lead the way and support all the states in the union but only these territory's are Mandatory not the rest of the world would it become a Major Economy again?

reply to post by ArieZ


I'm pretty sure california is the worst run state in the union.

Honestly, I don't think California would leave the Union. They love government too much to leave big government America. If any state would secede, it would be Texas.

Were that to happen within 5 years the rest of the US would have a third world hell-hole on both our Southern and Western borders.

If you could forecast that would it happen, be a great time to buy land in Nevada, Arizona and Idaho. Nice shops like Google, Apple, Sun, Cisco, Intel and others would be looking for land to build new corporate campuses

Really? What about the contract we have ERON that we are still paying and obligated to for the next several years? What about foriegn countries that would try to take us over as PRIME Real Estate exists here on the water! How would we protect ourselves? The Corporate and business taxing and licensing is so one of the WORST/ HIGHEST in the country. How would we sustain our own? Not to mention the Hollywood element. That means that few movies and entertainment would be shared. As many idiots out there that rely on their "TV" daily fix......this alone would create war!....lol

I, for one, would be a very happy camper.

Our economy would boom without the drain of sending more in taxes than we get back.

Establishing a state bank would relieve us of the burden imposed by New York's vampire financial crooks.

We would own a space launch center.

We grow pretty much anything you might care to eat, our fisheries would sustain us.

I'm pretty sure most of the states west of the Rockies would throw in with us.

Marijauna would be legal.

We have a strong sense of democracy and a willingness to experiment.

If the US broke up, We'd get the Pacific naval assets, most of PACAF, and so on.

This has been done before in 1991, I think it was, one night we went to bed with the mighty USSR our mortal enemy, and when we awoke, it was gone.

Oh, yeah...we have Hollywood.


Yep.

Happy campers all around (well, here, at least) if we broke off.

reply to post by ArieZ

Sad to say but I think that would be one of the best things that could happen to America. They're one of the main reasons the nations going broke to begin with and no it wouldn't acquire NASA or any other part of the Military as a financial asset. I'm curios where you would get your water to grow all this food you're talking about?

We could give Califoria back to Mexico, and Michigan to Canada.
Just a thought.

California really is the land of milk and honey... and gold... and everything else you could ever want. It could do very well as an independent nation (with free market politicians in charge and a return to the gold standard).

The dollar will collapse within 2 years according to financial experts. In the past it has been proven that every country wich started to print extra money was doomed by doing so. Besides that all, Russia and China have made agreements to start trading oil without the dollar involved. This will give the dollar as reserve-currency an unstable position. Look into your own hometown, how many stores, shops, etc, are allready excepting other currencies then the dollar?

It is not a question off if it will fall but when.

Originally posted by DutchBigBoy
It is not a question off if it will fall but when.

Correct, metals will go parabolic soon. Look at the price of silver, 30 year high and it keeps going up.

reply to post by mtnshredder


California is bankrupting the US?

You must live in one of the states California supports. California is a donor state, meaning we send more to Washington than we get back. Our money goes to support a lot of states that whine about "freeloaders" when they freeload themselves.

More like the US is bankrupting us.

Actually, perhaps we could persuade California to split from the Union to PREVENT the dollar from collapsing. That state is just another stellar example of the continued failure of Socialist/Liberal agendas. When will people learn??? I challenge any liberals to show me just ONE example where socialism/liberalism has been succesful - just one!

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by mtnshredder

 

California is bankrupting the US?

You must live in one of the states California supports. California is a donor state, meaning we send more to Washington than we get back. Our money goes to support a lot of states that whine about "freeloaders" when they freeload themselves.

More like the US is bankrupting us.

There's a lot of info out there on this. Here's some reading for you. It shows Ca getting $1.45-$1.50 back for every $1.00
californiabudgetbites.org...
blogs.kqed.org...
Also have to factor in that those that have paid taxes in Ca and then move/retire to another state will receive retirement funds in a different state than where they may have paid their majority of taxes. The Ca tax stat of only $0.78 doesn't reflect this and is wrong. Ca also spends 10.5 billion on illegals annually not to mention other superfluous programs in Ca.that could go bye bye. If illegals were removed this would open up millions of jobs to US citizens across the nation. Many illegals also work under the table so the money never gets reported to the Feds but the rest of the country supports them when they receive Federal funds for illegal immigration social services (which they do receive) and why they continue having kids they can't afford because US citizens pay for them. So not only are you receiving $.50 more than you pay they're are also taking jobs which isn't included in Arnold's poor us rant. I think if you do the research and factor in some of the other issues that rarely get put into the equation, you'll see the Ca Fed tax math is severely flawed and skewed. So....yeah Ca is a huge burden on the rest of the country economically. Ca takes more than than they will ever reveal. I wish they would break away from the union or get it together, one of the two.

BTW I lived there for many yrs and love Cali but they've literally sold themselves out. I'd go back in a heartbeat if it wasn't so messed up.

reply to post by mtnshredder

To: Senator Boxer
From: Sean Moore, Legislative Director
Marcus Stanley, Senior Economic Advisor
Date: January 8, 2010
You have asked us to ascertain whether the actions taken by this Congress have resulted in more net Federal fiscal assistance to California. Specifically, you wished to know whether during this difficult economic period, California is now receiving more in Federal expenditures than it pays in taxes.

We have obtained data from the Census Bureau, the Internal Revenue Service and other sources on the taxes paid by California and the Federal expenditures received for each year from 1998-2008. We were also able to project estimated 2009 figures using the overall changes in Federal tax receipts and budget outlays. The methodology and sources for this estimate are fully documented in the attached appendix. We also checked the general methodology with external reviewers at the Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC) and the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP)...

The attached chart shows the amount of Federal expenditures in California for each dollar of Federal taxes collected in the state, for the 1998-2009 period. During the dot-com economic boom of 1998-2001, California was a major donor state, receiving only 70 to 80 cents in expenditures for each dollar in taxes it paid.

The figures you cite are only estimates for 2009 alone..not all the data are in yet, so the actual amount is debatable. The fact remains that for most of my adult life, California has supported the rest of the US.

If California split from the rest of the US you would have a revolution in Calif.

The state is split onto two factions the big cities and the rural counties.

The tree huggers in the big cities have ruined the rest of the state and completely control (IE block) development of industry in the rest of the state. Have dried up the water for agriculture in most of the central Calif.
Have driven most of the big industry out of the state along with the jobs

The power the rural counties have is to turn off the power, oil, natural gas, and water to the big cities.
The LA basin and the San Francisco bay area have lived on stolen water and power from the rest of the state for years and that water and power system is imposable to protect from sabotage.

If the state of Calif split from the rest of the US it would be divided into two countries within a couple years.
Because the republican controlled areas are the source of power and water for the democrat controlled big cities in Calif.
The republicans counties also have most of the major military bases in Calif plus you know what the democrats think about serving in the military.

reply to post by apacheman

The problem on either side of the debate is lack of data figured into the equation. Like I mentioned in my post there are other factors that figure into the big picture, not just the ones I listed but many others also. When you have a state thas has at least 25% of the illegals in the country that don't pay taxes, send millions of $ out of the country, take American jobs, abuse Federaly funded social service and educational programs that other states pay for. You factor all this in and Ca does not pay in what they should be and other states are footing the bill and have been for yrs and yrs. Why would you think you should get back dollar for dollar when Ca has such a large amount of money not accounted for and they're not paying anywhere close to the true amount owed to the Feds not to mention all the US jobs they're taking?

reply to post by mtnshredder


What makes you think illegals don't pay taxes?

Most get a paycheck, and that means taxes.

If the farmers/growers would pay a proper wage, they wouldn't need illegals, because then it would be worth a self-respecting citizen's time and effort to do it.

One of the problems is the arrogant fallacy of "unskilled labor": there is no such thing. Every task you can think of requires some degree of skill to accomplish. I've often challenged people to define what they meant by the term then challenged them to do it themselves, after all, if it is unskilled, then that means anyone can do it efficiently first time, every time. The vast majority of attempts ended in either abject failure or near-disaster because they lacked the necessary skills. I turn down help in my gardens all the time because most lack digging skills, weeding skills, and tending skills, and do more damage than help.

Anyway, all that stuff is already factored into every estimate I've ever seen, and even if if isn't, most is supported by state taxes, not federal, so why would you count something that we pay for ourselves?

California has been a donor state pretty much from the beginning, and most certainly has been more often than not for the past 40 or 50 years.

reply to post by ArieZ


Hey man, why you gotta hate on us for? If we split from the union? You know what would happen, we'd be sunk.
yuc yuc. Get it?

Originally posted by SevenBeans

California really is the land of milk and honey... and gold... and everything else you could ever want. It could do very well as an independent nation (with free market politicians in charge and a return to the gold standard).

Plus think of all that "foreign aid" that the U.S. would send them as a foreign country.....
in exchange for whatever......