Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Lucifer777
Just so I can clarify my objections to your line of "thinking", you claim that american "Masonry" is into all this gay fantasy stuff. But you only can
bring a few personal testimonies of questionable characters with evidence, and then only to the Shrine and one of it's sub bodies, and then only to a
select few members.
The allegations are that homo-erotic hazing and general BDSM style hazings, such as beatings, electrocutions and sexual humilation is widespread in
the Shriner Masonry and Jester Masonry cults. There are also allegations that hazing rituals occur in "Prince Hall" Masonry and then there is the take
of the shooting during a hazing at Southside Masonic Lodge No. 493 in New York, which as I understand it was just a regular American Masonic lodge
which had an assortment of hazing equipment.
I am not suggesting that "all" Masons are gay, just because they prefer to be in a male-only religious cult or because they engage in homoerotic BDSM
style sexual humiliation; anyway in the modern world, there is no shame in such things, and I am certainly not homophobic; it is simply a matter of
"describing" the rather bizarre hazing rituals of Masonry; frankly I find much of this stuff to be totaly hilarious; I think that if the American
Masons were widely considered to be a cult of silly old fools with bizarre and rather childish "frat-house" rituals, it would perhaps diffuse the more
bizzare conspiracy theories about Masons.
With regards to testimonies of "questionable characters" then it is for you to offer argument and evidence as to "why" all such characters who are
critical of Masonry are questionable. Of course by the standard "cult midset" of a religious cultist, generally all forms of criticism against their
cult is considered diabolical. The Scientologists also have a policy of not defending their cult, but rather of merely attacking their critics; and so
refer to all critics of Masonry as being "questionable characters" is quite unsurprising for Masonic cultist.
For example, from the thread
www.davidicke.com... which beings with my
duplicate of the OP
thelonious:.... Many if not most of the esoteric Masons have viewed the Shriners in an unfavorable light................ most of them are like me:
we were initiated in the Shrine, found the whole thing ridiculous, and never went back.
Thelonious is a Masonic cult apologist who debates on the British secret societies subforum on the above link. If you would like to explain why he is
a "questionable character" I am only to happy to forward your comments to that forum.
For over a hundred years, the Shrine has been the playground of Masonry, and has reveled in, and encouraged, its public image as a bunch of
big-drinking, stripper-slapping, fez-wearing party animals, who engage in such behavior for the good cause of the hospitals. AND THAT'S FINE. The
Shrine is what it is.
I quit the Jesters more than 20 years ago, and this kind of thing has been going on at least 40 or 50 years,” said Malcolm “Mutt” Herring, 90,
of Montgomery, Ala. “I quit because I don’t drink, and I don’t mess around with other women, other than my wife. Going to one of their events
was like going to a whorehouse.”
"...........to claim that the ROJ doesn't know about this stuff on a widespread basis is sheer nonsense. "
"During the initiation of new Jesters I was offered the opportunity by another fellow brother to sleep with a whore, even though I had a wife and kids
waiting for me to come home. I was not strong at the time and I violated every oath I had ever taken with my wife. This did not stop at initiation.
These were a constant occurrence at our Jester functions and they are a common occurrence today. The initiation practices have not changed as well.
Prostitutes were offered/made available at our functions and often brothers would have sex in front of other brothers.
I should point out that the author of the freemasonsfordummies site is a Masonic cult apologist and so for this reason alone I would concede that he
is a "questionable character," however perhaps you could explain why you would consider him to be a questionable character.
"Christopher L. Hodapp is the editor of the "Journal of The Masonic Society." He is the author of the best-selling "Freemasons For Dummies," and
"Solomon's Builders: Freemasons, Founding Fathers and the Secrets of Washington D.C.
the story from last May about Jesters' "fishing trips" to Brazil that involved at least 19 members and hookers as young as 13."
"The first deposition, 61 pages, was provided by Adilson Garcia da Silva on Sunday, April 13, 2008. He describes how he became a fishing guide, his
work history, how marijuana was allegedly obtained for the plaintiffs' clients then began describing how girls, from age 13 on up, were lured into
prostitution from Brazilian Indian reservations for the fishing trips' clients. The girls, he said, were hired to provide 'programs' that consisted of
'oral sex, strip and dance contests.'
Question: What is the youngest age that you’re aware of a girl being on the boat as a prostitute?
Answer: My brother would pick up a group of girls in Autazes and would take by boat to an American. One was 13, one was 14, and there was one who was
even 9 years old.
Just to refer to the "testimonials of questionable characters" is quite a blanket statement as I must assume that it refers to all persons making
criticisms of Masons on this thread, and since some of this comes from FBI and police reports, I do concede that the US FBI and police are probably
quite "questionable characters" and US narco-terrorist collaborators, however it is for you to explain why "you" consider them to be questionable
Just to restate the New York Times allegations:
Jessica McGowan for The New York Times
(John C. Goline's) faith was shaken when he joined the leadership of the Suez Shriners in San Angelo, one of 191 temples affiliated with the order.
He found that much of the money collected to support the hospitals was commingled with money used for liquor, parties and members’ travel to Shrine
events. The Shrine’s national auditor largely confirmed his findings, but not before Mr. Goline was forced out of office.
His experience is not unique. An examination by The New York Times of Shrine records and minutes of Shrine meetings and interviews with current and
former Shrine officials painted a picture of lax accounting procedures and oversight under which money earmarked for the hospitals instead financed
The examination found these things:
¶More than 57 percent of the $32 million the Shriners raised in 2005 through circuses, bingo games, raffles and a variety of sales went to costs of
the fraternity, including keeping temple liquor cabinets full and offering expenses-paid trips to Shrine meetings and other events.
¶Only 2 percent of the Shrine hospitals’ operating income comes from money raised by Shrine temples and members’ dues. (The bulk is supplied by
the hospitals’ $9 billion endowment.)
¶A top Shrine official told a meeting of temple treasurers that poor accounting for cash coming into the organization was “an increasingly common
problem,” and that more than 30 temples had discovered fraud — like theft of money and inventory, altered bank statements, padded payrolls and
fake invoices — amounting to as much as $300,000 and involving members of their “divans,” the five-member boards that govern each temple.
Yet whistle-blowers like Mr. Goline are often greeted with hostility, retaliation and official sanctions.
“.......Critics say the line has been blurred between money raised for the hospitals and for members’ entertainment.
“Money raised for the hospitals is being used to pay for parties and liquor and trips, and they know it,” said Johnny L. Edwards, who was a leader
of Oasis Shrine in Charlotte, N.C., until he began campaigning for better control over money. “The way I see it, they’re stealing from crippled
For example you could provide evidence and argument as to why the authors of the New York Times article, and Mr. Goline himself are "questionable
characters," and further you could even encourage the Shriner Masons to sue the New York Times, if you can subsantiate that such claims were false.
Fourth jester convicted former judge Tills out of prison in three weeks
In April, 2005, the Jester's national ‘book’ was held in Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada. As set forth below, a typical feature of a ‘book of
the play’ is the presence of prostitutes (‘Jester Girls’) who engage in commercial sex acts with members of the ROJ. Arrangements for the
prostitutes are generally made by the organizer of the ‘books,’ or the region hosting the national ‘book.’ On occasion, individual Jesters may
make arrangements to transport prostitutes to ‘books.’”
I am quite sure that in litigation-mania America that you could find a "pro-bono" lawyer to sue Sandy Frost for making false accusations, rather than
just rehashing such issues over and over again on the Internet.
A Scottish Rite "Chaplain's" Testimony of the "Holy and Sacred Rubber Penis" Shriner Initiation.
I was Chaplain in the Scottish rite and a degree master. In the blue Lodge I was senior deacon and preparing to be the junior warden, only two chairs
away from the office of worshipful master. I was very busy with all this responsibility.
The following fall however, after the reunion, I decided it was time to enter the Shrine.
Mike had come into the Scottish rite at spring Reunion and now was eligible also.
We went into the Shrine together. I knew that the Shrine initiations got really rambunctious and wondered what might happen when they laid hands
roughly on Mike. The initiation was performed in the Coliseum
before a very large crowd of Shriners who came to see the fun.
We began the initiation about noon that Saturday. After the medical screening came the hazing, which was very childish. Some of it was not only
childish, but downright vulgar. At one point we were placed in a large, mesh cage, and one of the Shriners climbed up on top of it. He exposed a very
convincing rubber penis which was connected to a water bag concealed in his clothing and hosed down all of us in the cage to the delighted howls of
After the hazing it was time for the serious part, the ritual, and then time to take the oath. We took the obligation, again with terrible bloody
consequences if we revealed any of the "secrets" (one form of mayhem we promised to accept was to have our "eyeballs pieced to the center with a
sharp, three-edged blade"). And, with the Koran on the altar, we sealed our solemn oath in the name of "Allah, the god of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan,
the god of our fathers." I had taken so many bloody oaths already (one for each degree) that I paid little attention to this one, except to notice
that it, like the rest of the ritual, featured desert settings, Arabs and Allah, the Mohammedan god.
But sources close to the investigation and former Jesters from other parts of the country tell a different story, one of bizarre activities —
including routinely hiring prostitutes for gatherings, sex competitions and degrading initiation rites for new members — at many Jesters outings,
with off-duty police hired to keep nonmembers away......
Last August Martin (the Jester's president) sent a directive to all 191 local chapters, forbidding the following conduct during initiation ceremonies:
• “Any type of physical brutality, such as whipping, beating, striking, branding, electronic shocking [or] placing of a harmful substance on the
• Sleep deprivation, exposure to the elements, confinement to small spaces, or other activity that subjects Jesters to “an unreasonable risk of
I really cannot see the point of the president of the Jesters having to forbid "Sleep deprivation, exposure to the elements, confinement to small
spaces, or other activity that subjects Jesters to “an unreasonable risk of harm,
,” if such holy and sacred hazing rituals were not happening.
Further the 1930's Demoulin catalogue seems to indicate that the various Masonic rituals which were testified to in court have been happening since
Just t restate the allegations:
Originally posted by Lucifer777
the points in the catalogues mentioned so irritatingly by Lucifer takes the debate in the other direction and makes the cult look silly...
Impersonating His Satanic Majesty and prodding canditates with and electric baton is a holy and ancient rite which dates back to ancient Egypt;
Devil's Tridents with portable electric batteries have just never been discovered in Egypt because it was such a secretive and holy rite.
Masons are anyway bound by their sacred oaths to His Imperial Majesty not to speak of such matters, and this probably accounts for the cult denialism
and deception on this thread, however I do release Masonic cultists from all such secrecy oaths at the point where they break them all; however if
they chose to keep their oaths, then I will happily continue the torture and sexual humiliaton in the halls of the Great Temple in the hereafter with
my Masonic slaves.
Further with regards to your previous;
Oh, and in every masonic lodge in every city, town, and province, the degrees are taught in the same manner that they have been for hundreds of
Please provide some evidence that British Freemasons parctice the holy and sacred electric shock and branding initiation rituals and I will repost it
on forums where there are British Freemasons participating for their consideration.
The following story appears to indicate that holy and sacred "paddling" rituals are also part of the "Prince Hall" Masonry
Mannheim soldier’s death has element of Masonic mystery
In order to become a third-degree Mason, Wilder knew he would have to endure being beaten on his buttocks with a paddle by fellow Masons.
His plan was to get so drunk for the Jan. 7 ceremony that he wouldn’t feel the pain of the beatings, according to a friend, Spc. Tony d’Ercole.
His mother, Diane Wilder, said her son told her that if he got so drunk that he passed out, his fellow Masons would take his blows.
...Also, he told them about the paddlings he took when he became a first- and second-degree mason last fall
The "beating" of the Prince Hall Mason described above was a "Third Degree" Masonic ritual, however the article alleges that such beatings also
happened in the first and second degrees; n order to establish your claim, I think it appropriate to ask you what evidence you have that all First,
Second and Third Degree Masons are similarly beaten in evey Masonic lodge throughout the world?
b]Guillotines and Guns
A Ritual Gone Fatally WrongPuts Light on Masonic Secrecy
By PATRICK HEALY
Published: Wednesday, March 10, 2004
PATCHOGUE, N.Y., March 9 Â� The initiation rituals at the Masonic lodge here had been bathed in secrecy over the years. The climax of Monday
night's ceremony was to be a simple prank. A new member of the Fellow Craft Club, a select group within the lodge, would sit in a chair while an older
member stood 20 feet away and fired a handgun loaded with blanks.
That ritual went terribly wrong inside Southside Masonic Lodge No. 493, in a basement littered with rat traps, tin cans, a 9-foot-tall guillotine,
and a setup designed to mimic walking a plank.
Further in order to establish the claim that Masonic cult rituals are the same internationall, please provide some evidence that all Masonic cults use
guillotines and guns.
I should point out that I in no way dissaprove of Masons shooting thier cultists, and I would like to take this opportunity to encourage such
Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by Masonic Light
I stand corrected. Seems like it's no longer an "official" part of the ritual, but a lot of guys still do it.
The Imperial Shrine has requested all Temples to stop it use, so a Shrine Temple is on their own should a law suit develops as a result.
I've walked the Hot Sands and have no problem doing it again. But you never know how some others may react.
Further JoshNorton who is a Masonic cult apologist who posts here, seems to think that such electrocution rituals were once an "official" part of the
ritual which is still practiced. If you consider Josh to be "questionable" please state your reasons for this.
Yet when I try (to no avail since a brick wall has more responsive understanding than you) to explain that Masonry is universal all over the
world, including Scotland, you fail to grasp that. If you were to close your mouth for a brief moment and actually study the global aspects of craft
masonry, you would find that Blue lodge masonry is the same in US, UK, India, Scotland, Greenland, and Iceland. We use virtually the same ritual, we
learn things the same way, and we all take the same obligations. Including your father.
By "Blue Lodge" Masonry, this only refers to the first three degrees, and there numerous other cuts within Masonry which a "Master Mason" can join
after he has completed the three degrees. It could also be argued that Sceintologists do not indoctrinate "all" their cultists with the beleif that L.
Ron Hubbard in the Messiah, since those on introductory courses do not have this revealed to them. Similarly the allegations don't refer to the three
basic degrees of Masonry but are to do with advanced rituals. For example prior to the 2st century to a person would have to firstly do all the Blue
Lodge cult rituals, then all the York Rite or Scottish Rite cult rituals, then the Shriner rituals and then only then could he hope to be chosen to
join the ranks of the elite Masonic cult of Jester Masonry.
The Ancient Arabic Order of Nobles of the Mystic Shrine
.. The mother of the Masons, the Grand Lodge in England, is not fond of Shriners: it threatened to expel any English Mason who enters the Shrine. But
for Americans, the Ancient Arabic Order offers a chance to let their hair down after they have achieved the highest Masonic degree. The Shrine was
founded so that Masons could get drunk...... Only the cream of the Masonic crop are allowed to join this fraternal cult!...
Not everyone was happy with a bunch of men who regularly got together to put on fez hats, look at dancing girls and get totally wrecked. The Shrine
was becoming the target of a lot of (well deserved) bad publicity. Some Masonic lodges were so embarrassed by their cousins that they considered
expelling any Mason in the Shrine. Shriners met to come up with an appropriate response. An honest Shriner hit the nail on the head. "You know?" he
said. "I bet if we opened up charitable hospitals for crippled children, people would think we were legitimate. No one is going to criticize people
who give crippled children hospital beds!"
And that's how the Shrine Hospitals for Crippled Children came about!!!
If you have any evidence that such hazing rituals occur in Scotland or England, then please present such evidence, rather than just claiming that such
behaviour is "universal" all over the world.
I would invite you to look back at your first few posts and the responses you received from people on this site. Most everyone tried to be
cordial and well mannered to you. You came out of the gate trying to be disliked by all and in that only partially succeed. If you goal is to be
disregarded as a pinhead or a troll, then by all means continue with your current direction, but if you decide that you would like to have actual
conversations with people here, you might want to read a bit of the past threads and learn how to do it without being a dick. many in the past have
been able to accomplish that task while still getting their point across. At a few very brief moments, you almost seem like you could have some value
in your words. It would be a shame to have all of them ignored by most simply because you want to be different.
Well this is just abuse and it is beneath myself to respond, however in many years on the Internet on discussion forums, I have not found the Masonic
cult apologists to be "cordial and well mannered" at all, with very vew exceptions; their general debating strategy is cult denialism, deception and
the use of ad hominem; it seems that their strategy is mostly to insult their criticis, and I would like to encourage this behaviour from Masonic cult
apologists, since I consider it important that you just "be yourselves."
The Masonic Gang on ATS:
"Without fail, topics that begin with a critical analysis of one or more aspects of Freemasonry are soon inundated with rapid-fire defensive
replies from a select few members. And, those select few members appear to have 95% or more of their focus on those types of posts, within those types
of threads... or, rapid-fire atta-boy replies in threads with positive remarks about Freemasonry. In other words, an apparent dedicated single-minded
-----------ATS Site Owner.
And please, if you have any shred of decency in your body, do not reply to this post with pictures or a 1000 word essay.
I can be of no assistance with your lack of literacy skills; you have challenged the allegations on this thread, and so I have briefly restated
I believe that by revealing the holy and sacred homoerotic Masonic cult initiations such as the holy and sacred electrocution and sexual humilation
rituals, that this will clear up any misunderstanding that non Masons have about Masons and I find your attitude to be most ungrateful. The Masonic
cult apologists here have an opportunity to explain the sacredness and holiness of such ancient rituals and I think that you should all be grateful to
me for such an opportunity
As long as the priest, that professional denier, calumniator and poisoner of life, is accepted as a higher variety of man, there can be no answer to
the question, What is truth? Truth has already been stood on its head when the obvious attorney of mere emptiness is mistaken for its representative.
.............Upon this theological instinct I make war: I.... Whatever a theologian regards as true must be false: there you have almost a criterion
of truth. Nietsche: The Antichrist
Just in case the gang of Masonic cultists here feel a bit persecuted by me, let me assure you that I have been an evangelical anti-cultist and an
opponent of all forms of organised religion since the early days of the World Wide Web and that I generally tend to specialise in the persecution of
Christ and his church (i.e., the Christians) and that I consider the Masonic cultists to be only one sect of numerous sects in this vile and
diabolical Christian religion; thus bear in mind that it is not "only" the Masonic cult fanatics whom I conisder to be untermenchen (subhumans); I
consider all religious fanatics to be similarly unworthy of life.
Further your behaviour on this thread has simply been typical of Masonic cult denialism, obfucation and deception, and you have essentially accused
other Masons, ex-Masons, Masons wives, jouranlistsm, the Police and the FBI of whose reports litter this thread as being "questionable characters"
merely on the grounds of being critical of your religious cult; I rather think that it is "you" who has shown yourself, by your behaviour here to be a
His Imperial Satanic Majesty
"Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the chances are
that you won't know it, and may even vigorously deny it."
edit on 11-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Text was not blasphemous and diabolical enough; not enough Christian flesh and blood consumed. Not
enough Christian virgins deflowered & sacrificed,