On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters.

Some clarification.

The Masonic Hierarchy; sects within sects.

Essentially this thread is a thread on Shriner Masonry and Jester Masonry. It seems to have descended into a discussion regarding the various hazing rituals which happen in these Masonic organisations and in other Masonic organisations.

For clarification we need to consider who the Shriner and Jester Masons are.

For example consider:

Until 2000, before being eligible for membership in the Shrine, a person had to complete either the Scottish Rite or York Rite degrees of Masonry, but now any Master Mason can join.

en.wikipedia.org...

So to explain the terms Scottish Rite Masonry, York Rite Masonry, and Master Mason consider:

.

Freemasonry is structured into two groups “York Rite” and “The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (AASRF).” York Rite Masonry has 13 steps and is more Biblical or Christian based than AASRF which is composed of 33 steps or degrees. AASRF is based on deism, the worship of man’s reason rather than revelations from the Holy Spirit.

Both groups have the first three degrees in common called the “Blue Degrees.” The candidate must take blood oaths not to reveal any Masonic secrets. After the candidate finishes these introductary degrees, he must decide which one of these paths he will take.

www.care2.com...

Thus for simplification, a Master Mason is a person who has undergone the basic three "Blue Lodge degrees" and then the "Master Mason" may chose to join the York Rite or the Scottish rite.

Shriner Masonry

What is a Shrine Mason?

Shriners, or Shrine Masons, belong to the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine for North America (A.A.O.N.M.S.). The Shrine is an international fraternity of approximately 500,000 members who belong to Shrine Center throughout the United States, Canada, Mexico, and The Republic of Panama.
...
Members of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the Mystic Shrine for North America are members of the Masonic Order and adhere to the principles of Freemasonry
.........

Becoming a Shrine Mason

Every Shriner is first a Mason; ... A man must seek admission of his own free will. A man is a fully accepted "Blue Lodge" Mason after he has received the first three degrees, known as Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason.

After that, he may belong to many other organizations which have their roots in Masonry and which have a Blue Lodge Masonry as a prerequisite. Scottish Rite, York Rite and the Shrine.

www.ben-ali-shriners.org...

Up unitl the year 2000, a "Shriner Mason" had to be a person who had completed the three Blue Lodge degres and then completed all the degrees of the Scottish or York Rite

It is at this point that the Mason would then be able to join "Shriner Masonry" and have the most sacred and holy rites revealed such as the holy and sacred "application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals," the holy and sacred "dog urination ritual (simulated only)" where the candidate is also allegedly stripped, blindfolded, made to perform simulated oral sex on a hot dog and prodded in the ass with a sharp object. Other holy and sacred rituals reported include caging and golden shower simulation (with a plastic penis and water), the application of electric shocks to the feet, genitals and posterior.

“The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explanation is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry .

Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

What Pike is referring to by the "Blue Degrees" are the first three degrees which produce the "Master Mason"
Up until the year 2000 such holy and sacred rituals as the various electrocution and sexual humiliation rituals were only revealed to those who had also gone through the York Rite and Scottish Rite degrees, but since 2000 these sacred and holy rituals have been revealed even to "Master Masons," who have only undergone the three basic degrees.

The Royal Order of Jesters. Masonic Sects within Sects.



Above: Sacred and Holy Knights of the Royal Order of Jesters on a weekend sex tourism holiday in Brazil where "Jesters National (a charity)" spent over $570,000 on the weekend fest with teen prostitutes as young as 13 years old, who were "sexually initiated" by this holy and sacred priesthood. One of the girls later became pregnant. More on: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Jesters is essentially an advanced degree of the Shriners; membership in this most sacred and holy priesthood is only open to a slect group of elect Shriner Masons. Thus to become a Jester, one must firstly become a Master Mason and then a Shriner. Prior to 2000, a Jester would be a Master Mason and have undergone all the York Rite and Scottish Rite initiations and then the holy and sacred Shriner initiation and then the Jester initiation which is open only the very "adepts," the Princes of Masonry, since such Holy and Sacred king making rituals cannot be revealed to the ordinary rabble of course.




I should also be pointed out that the term "Royal Order of Jesters" implies that they are monarchists (anti-repubicans; proponents of tyranny / dictatorship); in the UK this would further imply that they had a royal warrant from HRH Elizabeth Windsor; I suspect that Elizabeth does not attend their male only sex parties with strippers and prostitutes and that there is no "Royal" seal of approval. Alternatively they may be referring to another Royal" such as "His Imperial Satanic Majesty (i.e., myself)" and I can assure you that these silly old clowns do not have my Royal Warrant; I am rather fussy about the company I keep and I have a diabolical reputation to maintain.

Thus it can be stated that Blue Lodge Masons (Master Masons of the first three degrees), York Rite Masons and Scottish Rite Masons who gain entry to various advanced degrees (such as the Shriners and Jesters) do involve themselves in various forms of the most sacred and holy hazing rituals as were revealed by the late Grand Master Hiram Abiff in the Temple of Solomon where the "application of ice cream and stawberries to the gentials" and the "dog urination" ritual were hidden from the profane unwashed rabble and preserved to this day.

Since these Masonic cultists are regularly being accused by the Christian religious fanatics as being "Satanists" I would like to take this opportunity to deny this vile, diabolical and totally fantastical libelous accusation against the royal personage of His Imperial Satanic Majesty (i.e., myself); this is vile slader against my reputation.

Holy Holy


His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer
"Advocatus diaboli"

Do the Jesters refer to themselves as "Holy Knights" or is this one of your mismatching terms again? I'm thinking its the latter as I cannot find anything that supports your allegations.

Actually, to say they are monarchists is your opinion and assumption only, not fact. Nor are they required to have a "warrant" from the British Monarchy to use the title "Royal". The British Monarchy 1) is not the ruler of Freemasonry around the world or specifically the Shriner organization and 2) they do not hold exclusive rights of the word "royal".

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Some clarification.

The Masonic Hierarchy; sects within sects.

Essentially this thread is a thread on Shriner Masonry and Jester Masonry. It seems to have descended into a discussion regarding the various hazing rituals which happen in these Masonic organisations and in other Masonic organisations.

For clarification we need to consider who the Shriner and Jester Masons are.

For example consider:

Until 2000, before being eligible for membership in the Shrine, a person had to complete either the Scottish Rite or York Rite degrees of Masonry, but now any Master Mason can join.

en.wikipedia.org...

So to explain the terms Scottish Rite Masonry, York Rite Masonry, and Master Mason consider:

.

Freemasonry is structured into two groups “York Rite” and “The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (AASRF).” York Rite Masonry has 13 steps and is more Biblical or Christian based than AASRF which is composed of 33 steps or degrees. AASRF is based on deism, the worship of man’s reason rather than revelations from the Holy Spirit.

Both groups have the first three degrees in common called the “Blue Degrees.” The candidate must take blood oaths not to reveal any Masonic secrets. After the candidate finishes these introductary degrees, he must decide which one of these paths he will take.

www.care2.com...

Thus for simplification, a Master Mason is a person who has undergone the basic three "Blue Lodge degrees" and then the "Master Mason" may chose to join the York Rite or the Scottish rite.

Shriner Masonry

What is a Shrine Mason?

Shriners, or Shrine Masons, belong to the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine for North America (A.A.O.N.M.S.). The Shrine is an international fraternity of approximately 500,000 members who belong to Shrine Center throughout the United States, Canada, Mexico, and The Republic of Panama.
...
Members of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the Mystic Shrine for North America are members of the Masonic Order and adhere to the principles of Freemasonry
.........

Becoming a Shrine Mason

Every Shriner is first a Mason; ... A man must seek admission of his own free will. A man is a fully accepted "Blue Lodge" Mason after he has received the first three degrees, known as Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason.

After that, he may belong to many other organizations which have their roots in Masonry and which have a Blue Lodge Masonry as a prerequisite. Scottish Rite, York Rite and the Shrine.

www.ben-ali-shriners.org...

Up unitl the year 2000, a "Shriner Mason" had to be a person who had completed the three Blue Lodge degres and then completed all the degrees of the Scottish or York Rite

It is at this point that the Mason would then be able to join "Shriner Masonry" and have the most sacred and holy rites revealed such as the holy and sacred "application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals," the holy and sacred "dog urination ritual (simulated only)" where the candidate is also allegedly stripped, blindfolded, made to perform simulated oral sex on a hot dog and prodded in the ass with a sharp object. Other holy and sacred rituals reported include caging and golden shower simulation (with a plastic penis and water), the application of electric shocks to the feet, genitals and posterior.

“The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explanation is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry .

Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

What Pike is referring to by the "Blue Degrees" are the first three degrees which produce the "Master Mason"
Up until the year 2000 such holy and sacred rituals as the various electrocution and sexual humiliation rituals were only revealed to those who had also gone through the York Rite and Scottish Rite degrees, but since 2000 these sacred and holy rituals have been revealed even to "Master Masons," who have only undergone the three basic degrees.

The Royal Order of Jesters. Masonic Sects within Sects.



Above: Sacred and Holy Knights of the Royal Order of Jesters on a weekend sex tourism holiday in Brazil where "Jesters National (a charity)" spent over $570,000 on the weekend fest with teen prostitutes as young as 13 years old, who were "sexually initiated" by this holy and sacred priesthood. One of the girls later became pregnant. More on: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Jesters is essentially an advanced degree of the Shriners; membership in this most sacred and holy priesthood is only open to a slect group of elect Shriner Masons. Thus to become a Jester, one must firstly become a Master Mason and then a Shriner. Prior to 2000, a Jester would be a Master Mason and have undergone all the York Rite and Scottish Rite initiations and then the holy and sacred Shriner initiation and then the Jester initiation which is open only the very "adepts," the Princes of Masonry, since such Holy and Sacred king making rituals cannot be revealed to the ordinary rabble of course.




I should also be pointed out that the term "Royal Order of Jesters" implies that they are monarchists (anti-repubicans; proponents of tyranny / dictatorship); in the UK this would further imply that they had a royal warrant from HRH Elizabeth Windsor; I suspect that Elizabeth does not attend their male only sex parties with strippers and prostitutes and that there is no "Royal" seal of approval. Alternatively they may be referring to another Royal" such as "His Imperial Satanic Majesty (i.e., myself)" and I can assure you that these silly old clowns do not have my Royal Warrant; I am rather fussy about the company I keep and I have a diabolical reputation to maintain.

Thus it can be stated that Blue Lodge Masons (Master Masons of the first three degrees), York Rite Masons and Scottish Rite Masons who gain entry to various advanced degrees (such as the Shriners and Jesters) do involve themselves in various forms of the most sacred and holy hazing rituals as were revealed by the late Grand Master Hiram Abiff in the Temple of Solomon where the "application of ice cream and stawberries to the gentials" and the "dog urination" ritual were hidden from the profane unwashed rabble and preserved to this day.

Since these Masonic cultists are regularly being accused by the Christian religious fanatics as being "Satanists" I would like to take this opportunity to deny this vile, diabolical and totally fantastical libelous accusation against the royal personage of His Imperial Satanic Majesty (i.e., myself); this is vile slader against my reputation.

Holy Holy


Her Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer
"Advocatus diaboli"

I don't know Lucy, I think you should maybe have a talk with daddy about all this. Have him and mom tell you about what kind of history they have in dealing with all the wrongs that they have done in the world as a result of being involved with masonry. I mean the Jesters were masons, your dad is a mason, surely if all jesters, all american masons are sleeping with children, they wouldn't leave out the UK masons. You guys have whipped cream over there too right? Ask daddy if he enjoyed the BDSM activities. And ask him if he did it all his masonic career, or just after he got to be a "higher up" mason. Lots of folks around here are very curious about the Higher up's. And please don't forget to share mom's input with us all.

Originally posted by network dude

I don't know Lucy, I think you should maybe have a talk with daddy about all this. Have him and mom tell you about what kind of history they have in dealing with all the wrongs that they have done in the world as a result of being involved with masonry. I mean the Jesters were masons, your dad is a mason, surely if all jesters, all american masons are sleeping with children, they wouldn't leave out the UK masons.

I very much doubt if "all Jesters" and "all Amercan Masons are sleeping with children," and certainly there is no evidence of this, however since it is you who is making such an accusation against fellow members of your own fraterntiy, it is for you to substantiate it.

You guys have whipped cream over there too right? Ask daddy if he enjoyed the BDSM activities. And ask him if he did it all his masonic career, or just after he got to be a "higher up" mason. Lots of folks around here are very curious about the Higher up's. And please don't forget to share mom's input with us all.

The allegations of the sacred and holy homoerotic Masonic BDSM initiations, sexual humiliation rituals and druken partiying with prostitutes, strippers and unerage prosituts are specific to American Masonry; I very much doubt if "any" British Masons would know any more about such rituals other than what they read on the Internet, though as the The Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine have opened a chapter in the UK, perhaps in time such sacred behaviour will be endemic to British Masonry also.

I should point out that there is nothing illegal or even surprising about drunken old men engaging in revelry with strippers and prostitutes and engaging in ritual sexual humiiation and torture, just as there is nothing unusual in religious cultists abusing children; however in the inerests of the academic study of religious cultism, I think that you should be grateful that I have given the Masonic culists the opportunity to explain the holiness and sacredness of such rituals.


His Imperial Majesty

Luicfer


-------------------

Originally posted by KSigMason
Do the Jesters refer to themselves as "Holy Knights" or is this one of your mismatching terms again?

The Jesters Masons are composed entirely of Freemasons, and entirely of Shriner Freemasons, and the Shriner Freemasons are composed exclusively of Master Masons, though in the past they were composed exclusively of Master Masons who had also completed all the holy rituals of the York Rite and the Scottish Rite. I would assume that all Freemasons consider themselves to be Holy Knights

We are the Holy Knights Templar Guild-HKTG- the true spiritual descendants of the Knights Templar founded 1118AD. We are a brotherhood of Warrior Knights also known as the -Sons of God- and are the protectorate of all faiths, peoples and true teachings of Christ. Our martial doctrine enables our minds, bodies and souls to develop spiritual harmony, thus enabling us to achieve true Enlightenment. Do not confuse us with Imposter Knights Templar organisations, whom parade in outlandish regalia and seek subscriptions and monetary riches. Unlike them our path is true to the founding principles of the Holy Knights Templar. We are a Warrior organisation first and foremost and everyone is expected to take their military studies seriously. If you are unable physically for whatever reason to practice your military skills then you will be expected to pay extra attention to theoretical skills and other methods of combat so that the whole of -HKTG- will be stronger as a result, there are many facets to warfare and all can be as deadly when your abilities are great. We do not discriminate against gender or creed and you will never be asked for a single monetary commitment. We welcome people from all faiths in the HKTG as long as you agree with our aims and principles, we are an entity of tolerance and believe that people must be free to pursuit there own spiritual beliefs. Like the ideals of the founding Knights Templar we exist entirely on donations and the spirit of the word of Christ; -Blessed are the meek; for they shall inherit the earth-

The Knights Templar were western civilisations first Warrior Monk Order and as such it is the path of the HKTG's Moral and Christian reflection to never discriminate against those that are unable to financially contribute, to further the Guilds advancement. There are many rooms in the Templar house, none of which require payment. Indeed the Enlightened Warrior Knight has no need for the false monetary pleasures of this world for they have given their life to the protectorate of the Holy Word and the Holy Blood.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The warriors are gentler than lambs and fiercer than lions, wedding the mildness of the monk with the valour of the knight, so that it is difficult to decide which to call them: men to adorn the Temple of Solomon with weapons instead of gems, with shields instead of crowns of gold, with saddles and bridles instead of candelabra: eager for victory -- not fame; for battle not for pomp; who abhor wasteful speech, unnecessary action, unmeasured laughter, gossip and chatter, as they despise all vain things: who, in spite of their being many, live in one house according to one rule, with one soul and one heart."~Bernard Clairvaux

holy-knights-templar-guild.weebly.com...

Of course, the above Interent site is related to an "irregular" Templar cult which apparently considers regular Masonry to be heretical and to be "fake" Masonry; however since you are implying that the Masons are "not" Holy Knights, might I assume that you are taking the same position as apostate irregular Masons in suggesting that the regular Masons are "unholy knights." Frankly I find this surprising since you have previously stated that you conider yourself to be a Christian knight, and since you are serving in the US military in Iraq, might I take this opportunity to point out that the state terrorism, narco-terorism, wars, assassinations, military coups genocidal mayhem, torture, murder and economc imperialism that we have come to expect from the US military is entirely typical of the behaviour of militant religious fanatcs who consider themselves to be "Holy Knights."

Holy, Holy.

I'm thinking its the latter as I cannot find anything that supports your allegations.

This would seem to contradict your earlier statements.

Originally posted by KSigMason on: www.abovetopsecret.com...
The Templar Order ...in Masonry is in commemoration to the Knights that fought for the Christian religion.

originaly postd by KSigMason » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:14 pm on: www.templarhistory.com...

Every Christian Mason should be a Knights Templar"

I also notice that you describe yourself on your blog ( on travelingtemplar.blogspot.com... ) as a " Past High Priest of the Royal Arch." If Masons do not consder themselves to be a Holy priesthood of warrior knights for the genocidal and imperialistic god of Capitalism, it comes as quite surprise to me.

I noitce the following on your blog:

Posted by KSigMason at 4:26 AM 0 comments
travelingtemplar.blogspot.com...


Obey a Christian Knight's command!
Inspire a Templar's hand!
....Oh, Prince Emmanuel, Son of God,
....Thee, Jesus, we salute!
...Each movement of the Knightly Sword
...!
Thou, the King of earthly state,
Thou, the King of Heavenly Land!
....Speed the spoil, the booty hasten,
....By the power of Christ's religion,
Templars charge, nor be forsworn.
...Never God's glittering stars looked on such men!

..."Hail, Christ, Emmanuel, we come!”
..When Jesus doth marshal
His ranks in accord,
He blesses each sword
...What Templar can falter
When Christ is his Lord?
....Lift up your golden heads, ye gates,
And let the King of Glory in!

This kind of diabolical, primitive, savage and genocidal religious fanaticism is little different to that of the fanatics of your Islamic enemies.

There is not really much difference between this kind of militant religious fanticism than that of the Nazis who also considered themselves to be Teutonic knights of a holy warrior priesthood.



A person who reveres religious schizophrenics such as Mohammad and Jesus is generally always suffering from some of the symptom of relgious schizophrenia themselves, however when this transforms into "militant" religious insanity the harmlessly insane becomes the genocidally insane.

Further a person who would revere a first century religious fanatic, fake healer and fake miracle worker who preyed on the sick, the disabled and who claimed to be able to cure them mraculously through exorcism is clearly entirely deluded and the defintion of a "charlatan."

Actually, to say they are monarchists is your opinion and assumption only, not fact.

Since they are called the "Royal Order" of Jesters, and this is a title they have chosen themselves, they are hardly likely to be Republicans or Anarchists.

Nor are they required to have a "warrant" from the British Monarchy to use the title "Royal". The British Monarchy 1) is not the ruler of Freemasonry around the world or specifically the Shriner organization and 2) they do not hold exclusive rights of the word "royal".

I was being somewhat satirical, I do realise that many of them are Christian religious fanatics such as yourself and that their Christ (i.e, a dictator, a king) is not Elizabeth Windsor; anyway Republicanism and other non-tyrannical political systems are blasphemies and heresies to a Christian anyway, since the political philosophy of the Bible is monarchy (i.e., tyranny, dictatrorship) and Christians await the arrival of a global genocidal theocratc dictator (i.e., the king of kings) who would be human history's penultimate genocidally insane religious fanatic.


His Royal Satanic Highness

Lucifer
Blasphemy,Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.

Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by network dude

I don't know Lucy, I think you should maybe have a talk with daddy about all this. Have him and mom tell you about what kind of history they have in dealing with all the wrongs that they have done in the world as a result of being involved with masonry. I mean the Jesters were masons, your dad is a mason, surely if all jesters, all american masons are sleeping with children, they wouldn't leave out the UK masons.

I very much doubt if "all Jesters" and "all Amercan Masons are sleeping with children," and certainly there is no evidence of this, however since it is you who is making such an accusation against fellow members of your own fraterntiy, it is for you to substantiate it.

You guys have whipped cream over there too right? Ask daddy if he enjoyed the BDSM activities. And ask him if he did it all his masonic career, or just after he got to be a "higher up" mason. Lots of folks around here are very curious about the Higher up's. And please don't forget to share mom's input with us all.

The allegations of the sacred and holy homoerotic Masonic BDSM initiations, sexual humiliation rituals and druken partiying with prostitutes, strippers and unerage prosituts are specific to American Masonry; I very much doubt if "any" British Masons would know any more about such rituals other than what they read on the Internet, though as the The Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine have opened a chapter in the UK, perhaps in time such sacred behaviour will be endemic to British Masonry also.

I should point out that there is nothing illegal or even surprising about drunken old men engaging in revelry with strippers and prostitutes and engaging in ritual sexual humiiation and torture, just as there is nothing unusual in religious cultists abusing children; however in the inerests of the academic study of religious cultism, I think that you should be grateful that I have given the Masonic culists the opportunity to explain the holiness and sacredness of such rituals.


His Imperial Majesty

Luicfer


-------------------

Originally posted by KSigMason
Do the Jesters refer to themselves as "Holy Knights" or is this one of your mismatching terms again?

The Jesters Masons are composed entirely of Freemasons, and entirely of Shriner Freemasons, and the Shriner Freemasons are composed exclusively of Master Masons, though in the past they were composed exclusively of Master Masons who had also completed all the holy rituals of the York Rite and the Scottish Rite. I would assume that all Freemasons consider themselves to be Holy Knights

We are the Holy Knights Templar Guild-HKTG- the true spiritual descendants of the Knights Templar founded 1118AD. We are a brotherhood of Warrior Knights also known as the -Sons of God- and are the protectorate of all faiths, peoples and true teachings of Christ. Our martial doctrine enables our minds, bodies and souls to develop spiritual harmony, thus enabling us to achieve true Enlightenment. Do not confuse us with Imposter Knights Templar organisations, whom parade in outlandish regalia and seek subscriptions and monetary riches. Unlike them our path is true to the founding principles of the Holy Knights Templar. We are a Warrior organisation first and foremost and everyone is expected to take their military studies seriously. If you are unable physically for whatever reason to practice your military skills then you will be expected to pay extra attention to theoretical skills and other methods of combat so that the whole of -HKTG- will be stronger as a result, there are many facets to warfare and all can be as deadly when your abilities are great. We do not discriminate against gender or creed and you will never be asked for a single monetary commitment. We welcome people from all faiths in the HKTG as long as you agree with our aims and principles, we are an entity of tolerance and believe that people must be free to pursuit there own spiritual beliefs. Like the ideals of the founding Knights Templar we exist entirely on donations and the spirit of the word of Christ; -Blessed are the meek; for they shall inherit the earth-

The Knights Templar were western civilisations first Warrior Monk Order and as such it is the path of the HKTG's Moral and Christian reflection to never discriminate against those that are unable to financially contribute, to further the Guilds advancement. There are many rooms in the Templar house, none of which require payment. Indeed the Enlightened Warrior Knight has no need for the false monetary pleasures of this world for they have given their life to the protectorate of the Holy Word and the Holy Blood.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The warriors are gentler than lambs and fiercer than lions, wedding the mildness of the monk with the valour of the knight, so that it is difficult to decide which to call them: men to adorn the Temple of Solomon with weapons instead of gems, with shields instead of crowns of gold, with saddles and bridles instead of candelabra: eager for victory -- not fame; for battle not for pomp; who abhor wasteful speech, unnecessary action, unmeasured laughter, gossip and chatter, as they despise all vain things: who, in spite of their being many, live in one house according to one rule, with one soul and one heart."~Bernard Clairvaux

holy-knights-templar-guild.weebly.com...

Of course, the above Interent site is related to an "irregular" Templar cult which apparently considers regular Masonry to be heretical and to be "fake" Masonry; however since you are implying that the Masons are "not" Holy Knights, might I assume that you are taking the same position as apostate irregular Masons in suggesting that the regular Masons are "unholy knights." Frankly I find this surprising since you have previously stated that you conider yourself to be a Christian knight, and since you are serving in the US military in Iraq, might I take this opportunity to point out that the state terrorism, narco-terorism, wars, assassinations, military coups genocidal mayhem, torture, murder and economc imperialism that we have come to expect from the US military is entirely typical of the behaviour of militant religious fanatcs who consider themselves to be "Holy Knights."

Holy, Holy.

I'm thinking its the latter as I cannot find anything that supports your allegations.

This would seem to contradict your earlier statements.

Originally posted by KSigMason on: www.abovetopsecret.com...
The Templar Order ...in Masonry is in commemoration to the Knights that fought for the Christian religion.

originaly postd by KSigMason » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:14 pm on: www.templarhistory.com...

Every Christian Mason should be a Knights Templar"

I also notice that you describe yourself on your blog ( on travelingtemplar.blogspot.com... ) as a " Past High Priest of the Royal Arch." If Masons do not consder themselves to be a Holy priesthood of warrior knights for the genocidal and imperialistic god of Capitalism, it comes as quite surprise to me.

I noitce the following on your blog:

Posted by KSigMason at 4:26 AM 0 comments
travelingtemplar.blogspot.com...


Obey a Christian Knight's command!
Inspire a Templar's hand!
....Oh, Prince Emmanuel, Son of God,
....Thee, Jesus, we salute!
...Each movement of the Knightly Sword
...!
Thou, the King of earthly state,
Thou, the King of Heavenly Land!
....Speed the spoil, the booty hasten,
....By the power of Christ's religion,
Templars charge, nor be forsworn.
...Never God's glittering stars looked on such men!

..."Hail, Christ, Emmanuel, we come!”
..When Jesus doth marshal
His ranks in accord,
He blesses each sword
...What Templar can falter
When Christ is his Lord?
....Lift up your golden heads, ye gates,
And let the King of Glory in!

This kind of diabolical, primitive, savage and genocidal religious fanaticism is little different to that of the fanatics of your Islamic enemies.

There is not really much difference between this kind of militant religious fanticism than that of the Nazis who also considered themselves to be Teutonic knights of a holy warrior priesthood.



A person who reveres religious schizophrenics such as Mohammad and Jesus is generally always suffering from some of the symptom of relgious schizophrenia themselves, however when this transforms into "militant" religious insanity the harmlessly insane becomes the genocidally insane.

Further a person who would revere a first century religious fanatic, fake healer and fake miracle worker who preyed on the sick, the disabled and who claimed to be able to cure them mraculously through exorcism is clearly entirely deluded and the defintion of a "charlatan."

Actually, to say they are monarchists is your opinion and assumption only, not fact.

Since they are called the "Royal Order" of Jesters, and this is a title they have chosen themselves, they are hardly likely to be Republicans or Anarchists.

Nor are they required to have a "warrant" from the British Monarchy to use the title "Royal". The British Monarchy 1) is not the ruler of Freemasonry around the world or specifically the Shriner organization and 2) they do not hold exclusive rights of the word "royal".

I was being somewhat satirical, I do realise that many of them are Christian religious fanatics such as yourself and that their Christ (i.e, a dictator, a king) is not Elizabeth Windsor; anyway Republicanism and other non-tyrannical political systems are blasphemies and heresies to a Christian anyway, since the political philosophy of the Bible is monarchy (i.e., tyranny, dictatrorship) and Christians await the arrival of a global genocidal theocratc dictator (i.e., the king of kings) who would be human history's penultimate genocidally insane religious fanatic.


Her Royal Satanic Highness

Lucifer
Blasphemy,Heresy, War, Revolution,Homosexual fantasies, etc.

edit on 6-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Text was not blasphemous and diabolical enough; not enough Christian flesh and blood consumed. Not enough Christian virgins deflowered & sacrificed,

no Lucy, I don't think that was anymore than the few Jesters who were busted doing those terrible things. See, I know the honor and dedication masons have to doing the right thing. Hurting a child is the exact opposite of what we are all about. Most of what we do is geared toward helping children in some way or another. But none of that matters to you, you have slanderous gay fantasies to spread!

And for the record, I seriously doubt your father is anything other than a good man who just happened to produce a screwed up version of a son. I feel sad for him.

Although I am an "irregular" Freemason of the Continental Tradition and your criticism doesn't apply to me because we don't have Shriners in my Obedience, I am compelled to point out factual errors of your argument.

First, you claim in your original post that a third of all American regular Freemasons are Shriners based on statistics you obtained from the Rajah Shrine website. I think you made an honest mistake here, and apparently so did everyone else in accepting this as fact. The web-site doesn't state that there are 525,000 Shriners in the USA, it says that the Shrine has 500K+ members in it's organization.

Originally posted by Lucifer777
Over a third of all Masons in the US are Shriners.

Although the Shriners are apparently a separate organisation, they only admit Freemasons of certain degrees. According the Masonic site www.msana.com... there are allegedly over1.4 million members of Masonic Lodges in the US. According to the Shriners site on
www.rajahshrine.org... there are allegedly 525,000 Shriners in the US.

Since Masonic membership is required to join the Shriners, it thus would appear that well over a third of Masons in the United States are also Shriners. Thus the attempts by "some" Masons to distance themselves from the Shriners due to the media exposure of their charity scams and the use of charity money to put on events which seem to be little more than drunken "pay for sexl" events, would appear to be rather questionable.

It wasn't until the following quote in your latest post that I noticed that what the Shrine actually claims is that they have over 500,000 members "throughout the United States, Canada, Mexico, and The Republic of Panama". This means that the number of Masons in USA who are also Shriners is a significantly lower percentage than one third.

Originally posted by Lucifer777

What is a Shrine Mason?

Shriners, or Shrine Masons, belong to the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine for North America (A.A.O.N.M.S.). The Shrine is an international fraternity of approximately 500,000 members who belong to Shrine Center throughout the United States, Canada, Mexico, and The Republic of Panama.

Second, Albert Pike was specifically referring to the Scottish Rite when he wrote the following quote in Morals and Dogma which was first published in 1871. Therefore, it isn't possible that he was referring to the Shrine which wasn't established until September 26, 1872.

Originally posted by Lucifer777

“The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explanation is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry.

Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

Look, I think that you build a strong case that the Shrine ritual has hazing elements and the case against the ROJ is scathing. I disagree that the Masons here are in denial of these facts, I haven't heard any of the Brethren deny this, if anything they have validated it. What they rightly dispute is that this somehow sullies the larger group of Freemasons who aren't members of the Shrine or Jesters, especially as many have even gone so far as to say that they would never join or even that the Shrine shouldn't be a part of Freemasonry.

Looks to me if you wanna become a mason that the Shriners and the Jesters are the groups to avoid from crazy rituals to inappropriate parties to say the least, seems they don't have such a great reputation...

I do however disagree that this is only happening in the American lodges we all know that the European's are kinkier lol....

reply to post by King Seesar


While I am not a shriner and can not say with any certainty about what goes on there, the men I know who are a part of that organization do some amazing things to help children. I have heard they have fun, and to what extent I do not know, but the homosexual fantasies that Lucymay seems to imagine in his twisted little brain, seem to be quite far fetched and as you mentioned, somebody would have squealed besides Schenobelen on his way to a book signing. I think it's safe to say that any fun that may exist in the shrine is quite tame and quite heterosexual. The Shriners bring their wives to quite a few of their functions. You know damn well, one of them would have something to say if any of that gay fantasy stuff was true.

reply to post by network dude


When i break things down analytically if things are going on as often as Lucifer777 discribes i would say it is more then likley side groups that masons are asked to join, those side groups are the ones i talk about when i refer to the "higher ups" these side groups can make any kind of higher degree even if it's not officially recognized by masonry and that is why there's so many who believe in the conspiracy and most regular masons deny it because there not asked to join these side groups so it becomes a whole big cluster you know what that causes mass confusion when trying to properly conect the doys persay.....


It's like that mason who was on here a while back that said another mason told his friend who was a mason to get ready for the New World Order, to me the mason that held this secret knowledge learned it from a side group or a rouge group and thought he could tell this other mason BUT big BUT here, the mason he told was just a normal mason who didn't know anything about this so he told his friend another mason who in turned told everyone who would listen....

It's like a movie i just saw called The Brotherhood of the Bell, in the movie Glenn Ford's character joined this secret society twenty two years before and thought it was just a normal fraternity but as soon as he found out they were crooked he tried his best to expose them, which tells me if your normal average everday mason was in on the plot of crooked world domination more masons would come forward and expose this, that's why i think it's side groups or rouge groups that have another agenda then your normal mason and they make up fake degrees.

Originally posted by no1smootha
Although I am an "irregular" Freemason of the Continental Tradition and your criticism doesn't apply to me because we don't have Shriners in my Obedience, I am compelled to point out factual errors of your argument.

I am well aware that the study of Freemasonry must take into account numerous sects which are referred to as "irregular," "candelestine" or even as "fake masonry" by the so-colled "regular" lodges in amity with the United Grand Lodge of England. Of course I don't accept such terms as "true" and "false" Masonry as I take a Marxist position that "man makes religion," and that all cult religions are human constructions.

My impression of the membership of many of the irregular lodges is that they are often eccentrics who do not consider "regular" Masonry to be true Masonry, and then there are lodges such as the O.T.O., which seems to just be an Aleister Crowley fanclub; and then there are "irregular" Knight's Templar Masons who seem to be the worst kind of Christian religious fanatics and on par with the militant fanatics of Islam, and then there is the
"Grand Orient de France" which is allegedly the largest Masonic organisation in France, but I consider them to be very progressive in comparison with the regular Masons; they tend to be militant Republicans and have much more in common with the Illuminist position; they don't seem to be a Christian organisation like the regular Masonic cultists; they admit atheists and humanists and I think that most of them would probably rather eat glass than appoint an aristocratic monarchist like the Duke of Kent as their cult leader or have anything to do with overty monarchistic (anti-Republican) organisations like the "Royal Order of Jesters". Further the French Freemasons are renowned for having a politically radical and even Marxist and Anarchist element, and I think that this is partly where the popular "Illuminati" conspiracy theory derives from.

The study of irregular Masonry is a diverse and complex subject, however this thread is specific to American "regular Masonry." If the Catholic priesthood commonly abuses children, this is no reflection on other forms of diabolical Christan religious fanaticism; similarly if drunken revelry and prostitute and stripper parties is commonplace among the holy and sacred Christian priesthood of warrior knights who are the American Masons, this is no reflection on the various "irregular" lodges, which are independent cult religions and religious cult franchises.

First, you claim in your original post that a third of all American regular Freemasons are Shriners based on statistics you obtained from the Rajah Shrine website. I think you made an honest mistake here, and apparently so did everyone else in accepting this as fact. The web-site doesn't state that there are 525,000 Shriners in the USA, it says that the Shrine has 500K+ members in it's organization.

There are varying statistics of how many cult members are in Shriner Masonry, however all such statistics I have cited are from Masonic websites themselves and should be consider an approximation.

It wasn't until the following quote in your latest post that I noticed that what the Shrine actually claims is that they have over 500,000 members "throughout the United States, Canada, Mexico, and The Republic of Panama". This means that the number of Masons in USA who are also Shriners is a significantly lower percentage than one third.

I think that we are rather splitting hairs here; I consider such statistics to be approximations, however if there are 525,000 Shriners as www.rajahshrine.org... suggests, this would make it one of the world's major organised religious cults with more members that Scientology cult, the Moon cult and many other leading wealthy anti-Communist religious and military orders.

Second, Albert Pike was specifically referring to the Scottish Rite when he wrote the following quote in Morals and Dogma which was first published in 1871. Therefore, it isn't possible that he was referring to the Shrine which wasn't established until September 26, 1872.

Yes I accept that, however it is clear that in the modern world, the most sacred and holy rites which include the holy and sacred "application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals," the holy and sacred "dog urination ritual (simulated only)" where the candidate is also allegedly stripped, blindfolded, made to perform simulated oral sex on a hot dog and prodded in the ass with a sharp object and other holy and sacred rituals such as caging and golden shower simulation (with a plastic penis and water), the application of electric shocks to the feet, genitals and posterior., etc., are not revealed to those in the "outer court" of the Temple (i.e., the Blue Degrees) but are reserved for the very elect.

Look, I think that you build a strong case that the Shrine ritual has hazing elements and the case against the ROJ is scathing. I disagree that the Masons here are in denial of these facts, I haven't heard any of the Brethren deny this, if anything they have validated it. What they rightly dispute is that this somehow sullies the larger group of Freemasons who aren't members of the Shrine or Jesters, especially as many have even gone so far as to say that they would never join or even that the Shrine shouldn't be a part of Freemasonry.

If you read through the over 300 posts in this thread I think that you will find a vast assortment of cult denilaism, temper tantrums and abuse from the Masons here at the suggestion that such rituals as the most sacred and holy rites which include the holy and sacred "application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals," the holy and sacred "dog urination ritual (simulated only)" where the candidate is also allegedly stripped, blindfolded, made to perform simulated oral sex on a hot dog and prodded in the ass with a sharp object and other holy and sacred rituals such as caging and golden shower simulation (with a plastic penis and water), the application of electric shocks to the feet, genitals and posterior., etc., are common to American Masonry.

Since such holy and sacred rites and drunken revelry at Shriner and Jester events with prostitutes and strippers appears to be commonplace and since this is allegedly a half million member cult of "mostly" American Masons who are "all" Master Masons and which includes York rite and Scottish Rite Masons, I think that a study of American masonry which did not take into account such practices would be lacking in objectivity.

Anyway since you are an "irregular" Mason, from the perspective of the regular Masons you are a cowan, a fake Mason and part of the profane, unwhashed rabble of the uninitiated; this is of course a very common perspective in the multi-billion dollar marketplace of cult religions; a cowan is of course "one uninitiated in the secrets of Freemasonry" and since you probably have not had whipped cream and strawberries applied to your genitals or been subjected to electrocution and sexual humilation then of course you are not a sacred and holy knight of the one true Christian priesthood.

I did notice in the cited post below that one may go from "profane" to "Shriner" in a single day; thus it seems that if one is not a Shriner that one is simply part of the profane, unwashed, uninitiated rabble; I wonder when His Royal Highness, the Duke the of Kent is gong to become one of the "elect" who has been made holy by the sacred application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals and the holy electric shock initiations.

To be fair to the British Freemasons, though they do tend to be, with very few exceptions, ideological Capitalists, anti-Communists, and evangelical defenders and apologists for the International Dictatorship of Capitalism, and Anglo-American state terrorism, narco-terrorism, economic imperialism and assorted genocidal mayhem, it is my impression that many of them seem to consider the behaviour of their American cousins with a degree of contempt.

I don't really wish to imply that these silly hazing rituals and the sex parties which are endemic to American Masonry is the core of the problem; the study of almost all major religious cults includes the study of silly rituals and bizarre behaviour which is generally considered to be ridiculous to those who are immune from religious hypnosis and indoctrination; the Freemasons appear to be a core Christian cult at the heart of the military and economic dictatorship of Capitalism who consider themselves to be holy and sacred knights of the diabolical god of Capitalism, which is essentially the vile Christian deity.


His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer

Re: Be A Shriner

www.lodgeroomuk.com...

There will be a Shrine initiation ceremony in central London on the afternoon of Saturday 19 June (2010). Membership qualification here is paid-up Master Mason in a Lodge recognised by UGLE. Membership including initiation and fezz costs about £150. Ongoing membership costs about £100 including donation to the hospitals. Shrine initiations are not tyled, initiates may bring non-masonic guests, wives and children are particularly encouraged to attend.

Enquiries are welcome here, or directly to me.

S&F, Julian
London Shrine Club
Past president of various UK Shrine organisations


Re: Be A Shriner
by gord_vokes » Sun May 23, 2010 6:20 pm

asabovesobelow wrote:
Is there a Shriner in You? Take the tour - www.beashrinernow.com...

The gl of penn now offers a day program where you can go from profane at 8am to shriner by 5pm.
www.pagrandlodge.org...

One Day Class
October 30th 2010
Time Schedule


6:00 - 7:45 a.m. Registration of Candidates (coffee and donuts provided)
8:00 - 8:05 a.m. Grand Lodge Opens, in each location
8:05 - 9:05 a.m. Entered Apprentice Mason Degree Conferral
9:05 - 9:25 a.m. Entered Apprentice Education
9:25 - 9:45 a.m. Break
9:45 - 10:30 a.m. Fellowcraft Mason Degree Conferral
10:30 - 10:50 a.m. Fellowcraft Education
10:50 - 11:05 a.m. Break
11:05 - 12:15 p.m Master Mason Degree Conferral
12:15 - 1:00 p.m. Lunch
1:00 - 1:20 p.m. Master Masons Education
1:20 - 1:30 p.m. Grand Lodge Closes
1:30 - 1:45 p.m. York Rite Information Session
1:45 - 2:00 p.m. Break
2:00 - 3:25 p.m. Scottish Rite Class, for those who wish to join
3:25 - 3:40 p.m. Break
3:40 - 5:05 p.m. Shrine, for those who wish to join

reply to post by Lucifer777

Lucy, you need to stop mismatching our terms which creates a horrible confusion. Every Masonic body has a specific term for the members, they are not interchangeable. We don't call ourselves "Holy Knights", that is a bad assumption using faulty logic. I'm referred to as "Sir Knight" in the Commandery (Masonic Knights Templar) and "Companion Knight" in the York Rite College. In each body I'm referred to by the title that I hold in that body.

As for your exerpt from the HKTG, they are not a Masonic organization and as such cannot assume that we abide by the same naming conventions they do.

I'm not saying we are unholy knights, but rather that we do not use the title "Holy Knights". You are misconstruing the facts again for suit your lies. You are also putting words in my mouth that I did not say. Nothing I have said today contradicts what I've said in the past. We do commemorate the values of the Crusaders, but we don't call ourselves by the title "Holy Knights". I still believe that every Christian Mason should join the Masonic Templars.

I am a Past High Priest in the Royal Arch Masons, not in the Templars. They are two different bodies.

That poem you cited from my blog comes from Rob Morris (1818-1888). It's a nice poem, but it does not contradict the fact that we do not call ourselves by the title "Holy Knights".

Like I said before, just because they use the word "Royal" doesn't denotet a connection to the British monarchy. Nowhere in their charter, oaths, or degrees do you find this. This is a dangerously false assumption on your part and for you to say it without evidence is irresponsible.

I have a question. So you say those who are Masons are just supporters of religious tyranny and are capitalist gangsters and deserve to be exterminated because they are naturally militant. Let's say tomorrow your war started and you were attacking those you oppose. Put in the situation, would you kill your father?

Originally posted by KSigMason

I have a question. So you say those who are Masons are just supporters of religious tyranny and are capitalist gangsters and deserve to be exterminated because they are naturally militant. Let's say tomorrow your war started and you were attacking those you oppose. Put in the situation, would you kill your father?

My father is in his 80's and he is retired; he is no danger to anyone. You, however are both a Christian (which is a genocidal and militant religion) and a member of the world's leading genocidal terrorist organisation (i.e., the US military); in other words you are a professional killer for the International Dictatorship of Capitalism and for US economic imperialism, state terrorism, narco-terrorism etc.



I am not personally a violent or aggressive person, however ideologically it is entirely appropriate for me to take a dialectical and contrary position towards militant and genocidal religious fanatics such as yourself. If I was to take a truly dialectical position perhaps I should suggest that your nation be irradiated with depleted uranium and that prior to your eradication, you should be waterboarded and sexually assaulted and that your body should be drilled into with various power tools, as is commonplace in Iraq, however since I believe that we Communists should have a higher moral standard than that of ganster Capitalists such as yourself, I do not propose this.



With regards to the "extermination" of Freemasons, this is simply a fabriacted position which you have created in your own imagination and entirely a straw man argument; you are simply talking to yourself. As long as a Freemason is an ideological Communist and totally committed to the eradication of the International Dictatorship of Capitalism, US imperialism and the vile and diabolical religion of Christianity (and indeed all forms of organised religion) then my judgement is that such a person should not be considered to be the "chaff" who are unworthy of life; however I do not really see why a Communist would have anything to do with Masonry, since I consider Masonry to be essentially a sect of the vile cult of Christianity.

Originally posted by KSigMason

That poem you cited from my blog comes from Rob Morris (1818-1888). It's a nice poem....

Referring to genocidal mayhem and holy war for "Jesus" is merely an indication of your hypnosis, indoctrination and diabolical Christian religious fanaticism.

Like I said before, just because they use the word "Royal" doesn't denotet a connection to the British monarchy.

I was simply being satirical in referring to Her Royal Highness Elizabeth Windsor approving of the holy and sacred drunken revelry, prostitute and stripper parties of the Jester Masons; I am well aware that most religious fanatics do not revere Elizabeth Windsor as their "monarch" or "Christ," and have differing interpretations of theocratic tyrannty (dictatorship / monarchy) and who this dictator or "king of kings" should be; often it is the cult leader of their particular cult; certainly a Republican or an anti-monarchist would be unlikely to join a "Royal Order" however.

With regards to your objection to Freemasons being referred to as "Holy Knights," the term holy can be taken to mean "Dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred: "the Holy Bible"; "the holy month of Ramadan" or "(of a person) Devoted to the service of God: "saints and holy men."

Obviously the most sacred and holy rites of Freemasonry such as the holy and sacred "application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals," the holy and sacred "dog urination ritual (simulated only)" where the candidate is also allegedly stripped, blindfolded, made to perform simulated oral sex on a hot dog and prodded in the ass with a sharp object and other holy and sacred rituals such as caging and golden shower simulation (with a plastic penis and water), the application of electric shocks to the feet, genitals and posterior., etc., are designed to produce a holy and sacred warrior knight and priest devoted to the service of the diabolical God of Capitalism and religious fanaticism.

Holy, Holy. Praise be to the Lord in all his genocidal and diabolical glory.


His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer

Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by King Seesar
Yea that's what makes you intresting because you've had experiences that can't be explained by modern science or i should say modern science that isn't classified, i'm one of the most logical people you could ever meet but i'v had experiences that some would say isn't covered by thus modern science either...

Yea that is another point of yours i agree with i do think there are other dimensions and some times different dimensions bleed into each other, the only point we disagree on is i think one of those dimensions is heaven, like you said you have been in a plane many times before and you ran into no heaven and it's like i said people only point up as a symbol of faith, heaven is a dimension in my opinion..

Personally I don't believe in the doctrine of reincarnation; never the less I do believe that human consciousness is eternal and survives the death of the human brain; I cannot prove this of course, but I "believe" this based on numerous mystical experiences. Generally I think that our enemies and allies on earth become our eternal enemies and allies, and that "organised religion" is a curse, not a means to eternal salvation; some of the most humanitarian, socialist, philosophical and loving people, and many of my philosophical mentors have been entirely anti-religious and have hated and despised religion. I must admit that I believe that the religious fanatics become eternally bound together, so I suppose I share the belief of Masons that they will end up with other gangster Capitalists, Imperialists and state terrorist collaborators like themselves in the afterlife; however they will also have to face their enemies and victims. I don't think that there is a singular heaven and a singular hell; I subscribe more to the multiverse theory; there may well be many more dimensions than there are stars in our universe. Some of those dimensions may well be a state of "heaven" but I doubt that they would resemble the poverty, tyranny and slavery of the Capitalist world; unfortunately I have also had numerous "bad" mystical experiences and in certain times grew accustomed to them; their may well be heavenly domains but there may well also be many hellish domains; those who contribute to economic and religious hell on earth, may well find themselves eternally confined to such realms.

I personally have no religion to share; I don't belong to any form of organised religion, though I would describe myself as being a Neopagan, Kabbalist and Crowleyist to a degree; I do not believe that there is "salvation" in any specific religion; on the contrary; I consider organised religion to be responsible for creating human slaves and human masters; organised religion is simply a means of creating a mass of hypnotised and indoctrinated slaves, and thus generally I think it to be healthier psychologicall to simply think as a humanist or even as an atheist, and certainly as a Nietzschean when it comes to the metaphysical ramblings of the religionists, and when it comes to politics and economics, it is better to set all irrationality and thoughts of religion and metaphysics aside, and in this respect I have to side with the Anarchists, Socialists, Marxists and Neomarxists..

"For every slave a master and for every master a slave; neither slaves nor masters be; no gods no masters."

It is not so much that I can say that there are no gods and goddesses, but there are none that I worship apart from the gods and goddesses of the natural world (i.e., human beings); if there were beings of love in other dimensions who can observe us, it is they whom I would expect to love and worship me; I am unconcerned with the worship of beings whom I cannot see and hear; we are seven billion human beings here and we are all potential gods and goddesses; though many are they who are trapped in economic slavery, sex slavery and the mental slavery of the memetic virus of religion, and for many it is simply economc and psychological hell on earth.

The idea of a "God" who can read the minds of billions of people simultaneously seems inconceivable to me and would seem to be more like a giant computer program, and frankly that is what I believe the universe to be, a giant virtual reality program, which it's original designers may be able to observe, but are unable to completely interfere with, since the inhabitants of the program appear to have free will. I suppose this is an extension of the Deistic view, however it does not imply monotheism or a singular designer; the universe may well have had many designers who have attempted to interefere and experiment with the programming over many billions of years, and who are not themselves part of the program but outside it. This of course leads to the question of who designed the realm of the designers and so forth, which leads to an endess serious of questions which seems end up in total irrationality unfortunately.

"There is no God where I am;" there is only myself and other gods and goddesses of the natural world (i.e., human beings)

"There is no god but man (and woman)"

Lucifer

....the criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism.

The profane existence of error is compromised as soon as its heavenly oratio pro aris et focis [“speech for the altars and hearths,” i.e., for God and country] has been refuted. Man, who has found only the reflection of himself in the fantastic reality of heaven, where he sought a superman, will no longer feel disposed to find the mere appearance of himself, the non-man [Unmensch], where he seeks and must seek his true reality.

The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man.

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world.

Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.
Karl Marx

edit on 4-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting

It's funny that you bring this up because while i consider my self Christian i don't believe in organized religion i feel it's corrupt and it also brings in the denomination theory which to me separates the faith and in some cases can indeed make it more "cult like" as you put it and that's not even mentioning the fact that most churchs fall under the guise of the 501C3 tag (tax exemption) which means you are not allowed to talk any kind of politics in the church which i find in direct conflict with my god givin free will....


It's funny because i listen to a certin preacher type person on a podcast and he dosen't like most Christian's even tho he believes in Jesus and the bible but he feels most Christian's are ignorant and that the Christian religion is responsible for more deaths then any other religion and he thinks that if Jesus were here right now most Christian's would persecute him, which i would have to agree with he also thinks your safer in a brothel house then in a church, which i get what he means....

That's why i say i consider my self Christian in a lose term because i don't feel it's about a word or religion such as Christian but what you believe in...

reply to post by Lucifer777

Well as most are religious and you'd be hard pressed to find a lot of Freemasons who were men of faith (quite a few who happen to be Christian) and communists, you'd probably be willing to kill most Freemasons.

I love that, I'm a peaceful guy who won't kill you as long as you're "totally committed" to your views and beliefs. How tolerant of you?

I didn't condone what people did in the Crusades. The values of which the Templars were founded upon are admirable. Of course to the snakes that hate morality they are detestable.

Why would whipped cream be considered sacred even if it were used in our ceremonies? The Shriners, like the Scottish to other anti-Masons, does not represent all of Freemasonry, or the Freemasons who compose the ranks.

Originally posted by King Seesar

It's funny that you bring this up because while i consider my self Christian i don't believe in organized religion i feel it's corrupt and it also brings in the denomination theory which to me separates the faith and in some cases can indeed make it more "cult like" as you put it and that's not even mentioning the fact that most churchs fall under the guise of the 501C3 tag (tax exemption) which means you are not allowed to talk any kind of politics in the church which i find in direct conflict with my god givin free will....


It's funny because i listen to a certin preacher type person on a podcast and he dosen't like most Christian's even tho he believes in Jesus and the bible but he feels most Christian's are ignorant and that the Christian religion is responsible for more deaths then any other religion and he thinks that if Jesus were here right now most Christian's would persecute him, which i would have to agree with he also thinks your safer in a brothel house then in a church, which i get what he means....

That's why i say i consider my self Christian in a lose term because i don't feel it's about a word or religion such as Christian but what you believe in...

I think that one could divide the phenomenon of Christian religious fanaticism into two basic groups; there are those who are the participants in the commercial multi-billion dollar Jesus business and there are independent religious fanatics who do not participate in the Jesus business.

Within the Jesus business itself, one can also discern two categories of cultists; there are the professional proponents of religious hypnosis who earn a living from this vile business and there are the victims of religious hypnosis. It seems to me that the victims who pay for this business are in the vast majority and the hypnotists who are "professional" religious fanatics who are selling various forms of salvation are in a relatively tiny minority.

When one conisders the Christian fanatics who are "not" part of the Jesus business in any way, it seems to me that they are still victims of hypnosis and indoctrination by the professional Jesus marketeers, since they still seems to have similar beliefs, which are essentially based on the various Christian salvation products in the marketplace.

A person who attempted to follow the actual stated teachings of Jesus would end up as a penniless, homeless, shoeless, wandering religious fanatic, exorcist, fake healer and fake miracle worker, promoting a strict adherence to the primitive and savage Bronze Age Mosaic Law; however even the non-commercial Christian fanatics do not tend to do this; on the contrary they just to tend to promote a similar "marketable" product that the professional Christians do, and by "marketable," I mean a product that is easier to sell than the "Jesus of the Gospels" brand of religious fanaticism, where a person can be a Christian and continue to carry money, wear shoes, live in a home, can be an anti-Communist, consumerist, American nationalist, and not worry about selling all that they have and giving all to the poor; on the contrary they can even support US imperilaism and the Capitalist economic exploitation of humankind. Christianity is very much a "make up your own easy to follow brand of religious fanaticism" religion, and then "do your best to misrepresent Jesus," and live your life as a total hypocrite. I am not of course suggesting that anyone should attempt to follow the teachings of Jesus of course, since I consider him to have been a raving lunatic.

.Lux

reply to post by Lucifer777


So you don't think Jesus had any type of intelligent knowledge that one could learn from...none at all???

How about when he said the second most important commandment out of the ten commandments was "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" you don't think there's any good morals or lesson to be learned from that??? Should we all hate each other instead??? Is it fair that a bunch of people on here dislike you for your radical points of view without even knowing who you are as a person deep inside besides the radical view???


Also what about when Jesus overturned the money changers did you not find a connection when he opposed people who gave the word capitalism a bad name(capitalistic gangsters), it seems to me with your view on certin things you too would have overturned the money changers also...

Is your theory that there is nothing to be learned from him at all???


Also both you and me have experienced things that modern science can't explain, was it all good!!! Heck no just like you i'v had my fair share of bad anomalies/super natural experiences also and if i had my druthers about it i would of been happy not seeing anything unexplainable at all but we did we both did...was it a blessing or a curse, i'd say probably a little bit of both.

But do you know how many people will go through life and never see anything like that??? Now the way i look at it is we were both supposed to see these things for a reason what ever that may be, and i'll tell you what after hearing your take on dimensions and what you experienced in your short stay in this realm i think deep down in side you know there's a god or creator your analytical brain when applying your book smarts in terms of logic would seem to deduct that some one had to create these dimensions, you my friend just haven't reached a conclusion on what the god factor details what ever that may be too you when you do....again i'll say it you and me were shown things others weren't for a reason....remember that.

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by Lucifer777

 

So you don't think Jesus had any type of intelligent knowledge that one could learn from...none at all???

How about when he said the second most important commandment out of the ten commandments was "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" you don't think there's any good morals or lesson to be learned from that??? Should we all hate each other instead???

The Gospels are a fictional portrayal of primitive religious fanatic; it is a diabolical model for human behaviour and insanity.

Of course, one could "cherry pick" and "quote mine" Hitler's Mein Kampf for perfectly harmless and innocent passages, or one could point to certain Socialist policies of the Nazis which were generally progressive, however once one makes to leap to claiming to be an ideological Nazi, a person is then essentially taking on board the overall ideology of Nazism, including a belief in genocidal militant totalitarian dictatorship (which is the essentially political ideology of Biblical Christianity) and in racism, which is just as bad as the genocidal tribalism and nationalism of the Bible.

If one considers the "Golden Rule ("do unto others, as you would have them do unto you" see en.wikipedia.org...)," the Golden Rule in various forms can be found in the writings of a myriad of pre-Christian and non-Christian and even humanistic and atheistic philosophers. However just because a person believes that this is a good ethical maxim, that does not make them a follower of Seneca, Epicurus, Confucius, Mohammad, Jesus or of the authors of the Vedas or any of the philosophies and religious which contain such a text.

Jesus and Mohammad's variations of the "Golden Rule" must also take into account the primitive slave societies which they lived in and the bigoted and genocidal religious laws which they promoted; since 9 of the Biblical 10 commandments are executionable offences and two of them are genocidal offences (the worship of competing tribal deities), and both faiths promote genocidal war against competing faiths, to claim to be a follow of the laws of Mohammad or the religion of Jesus (fundamentalist Judaism essentially), one cannot merely cite the Golden Rule; similarly one cannot merely cite some perfectly harmless and innocent quotation from Mein Kampf and then claim to be a Nazi. A "Christian" is essentially a person who reveres a religious schizophrenic and a fanatical proponent of the bigoted, genocidal and primitive Mosaic Law; Jesus was no more of a personification of "goodness" than Hitler was, and the Christian political system of tyrannical theocratic monarchy and religious bigotry, slavery and holy war (all of which are justified by the Bible) has been more genocidal throughout history than even the Nazis; thus when a Christian speaks of such things as "love, justice, freedom, etc.," then such things are also spoken of by humanists and socialists, but they have an entirely different definition. Thus has love come to be defined as hatred and bigotry by the fanatics of religion, and freedom defined as slavery, justice as injustice, etc.

Shame. Woe to those who spread the diabolical emetic virus of Christianity. Great and Terrible and Dreadful and Wrathful shall be their judgement.

Is your theory that there is nothing to be learned from him at all???

There is much to be learned about the vile virus of genocidal and bigoted forms of religious fanaticism; it should be studied, of course and understood, but ultimately it will have to be utterly eradicated from the face of the earth. Militant, genocidal religions such as the Christianity and Islam will require a militant and genocidal response.

Since the Koran and the Bible are not just religious texts, but advocate systems of government and law which would be far more barbaric, primitive and genocidal that even the system of the Nazis, I generally consider the Christians and Muslims to be far more of a diabolical threat than even that of the Nazis, who today represent a marginalised ideology, whereas Christianity and Islam still have mass appeal.

If "have" to insist on believing in a sky god, perhaps you construct one of your own creation, however the Biblical definition of a deity is simply that of a primitive, barbaric, pre-scientific, genocidal and diabolical proto-fascist. If you really must insist on revere a “Jewish” prophet there are far more worthy modern Jewish prophets such as Karl Marx, Trotsky or Neom Chomsky.

I think deep down in side you know there's a god or creator

On the "gods." What I Believe.

As Richard Dawkins has claimed, the question of whether the gods exist, is a "scientific" question; they either do or they do not, and thus far scientists have not found these gods; thus if a person states that they "know" that there are gods or a god, then this is epistemologically fraudulent, they can only claim to "believe" in the gods, since the existence of the gods is not part of the body of objectively verifiable scientific knowledge..

With regards to the universe having designers, this is certainly my perspective, but it has nothing to do with the ramblings of theists. Even Richard Dawkins believes that it is possible that human beings look designed because they "are" designed, but he is not speaking of our designers in the same way that theists are, he merely considers it to be possible that we are genetically engineered.

The cosmology which makes most sense to me is that of the "Holographic Universe" theory; in this view human consciousness is essentially a "program," and if it is a program it implies that there are programmers; further my own personal mystical experiences convince me that we live in a multi-verse; there may be numerous parallel universes running alongside this one, and our programmers may well be intelligent beings who reside there and who can observe us; however such "gods" would be beings of highly advanced intelligence much like ourselves, and I am not referring to a transcendental (up above) sky-gods; it is my "belief" that this universe is merely the birthplace of human consciousness and that consciousness survives the death of the brain and moves on into other dimensions. Such beings who are benevolent are often referred to as "guardian angels" and those which are malevolent as "demons" or devils; of course I do believe that there are such beings and have had a lifetime of often very powerful subjective experiences which convinces me of their existence, however I do not believe that they are "gods" in the same way that a religious fanatic does; merely that they are ancestral intelligences like ourselves who reside in other dimensions and are able to observe us, much as we would observe a virtual reality TV show or a pornographic film or a war film. Some of these intelligences may well be the original programmers / designers of our consciousness and of this "virtual reality" hologram we refer to as the universe.

The Christian idea that God is a man called Jesus is preposterous; the Jesus of the Gospels was a primitive religious fanatic, and if he did exist and his consciousness still exists in another dimension, he is likely after 2000 years to be in a much more advanced state and would be only one of probably billions or possibly trillions of such consciousnesses which are derived from the birthplace of consciousness, which is our current universe.

With regards to a singular Creator, I think that this belief derives from the "programming" of the Universe since it may well be that the unified theory is correct and that the universe is derived not from many substances but from one substance, which is unlikely to even be a "substance" as we understand the term, but more likely a "non substance" which probably does not even exist in this particular dimension.

In the quantum micro-worlddd, the idea that "nothing is created or destroyed, but merely transformed" is a pre-quantum perspective; particles seem to appear from nowhere and thedisappearrr all the time and nobody knows where they come from or where they go, which has caused many scientists such as Carl Sagan to suggest that there is a "multiverse" and that their origin is in anothedimensionon which is not accessible to us.

It does seem that the universe and human consciousness is a result of a singular "program" which gives theists the impression that there is a singular "God," who is not only a sky god like Jesus, but a person who can read the thoughts in the minds of billions of people simultaneously; I do not believe in such a sky god, but I do believe in the "gods (ancestral spirits)," but I do not worship them; any being of advanced intelligence would be unlikely to wish to be worshipped and praised in a religious sense, or to have animal and human sacrifices made to them; that is simply a consequence of primitive and barbaric religious fanaticism. I do also believe that something has gone wrong with the human experiment and "hell on earth" has been created and that many of the diabolical gods of the world's religions, may well be derived from malevolent human hating intelligences in other dimensions. Religion is not part of the solution, but part of the problem, and I have spent a great deal of effort over many years in the attempt to adress the problems of religious hypnosis and indoctrination, however not everyone can be "saved" from religious hypnosis and indoctrination, and more militant solutions will probably be necessary in the future world

His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer

You seem a little butthurt.

Seriously, I have seen you post the exact same pictures, comments and delusions in 4 threads now.

I gotta say this again to simplify the debate, show proof or admit that you have created all of these connections in your head.

Again, proof or it didn't happen. Pretty simple really.

Originally posted by YourPopRock
You seem a little butthurt.

Having sex with the Devil can be painful; but "no pain, no gain."

Again, proof or it didn't happen. Pretty simple really.

If there are any claims which I have made in the numerous threads here on Freemasonry, which you can show to be incorrect, I will happily retract such claims. I suggest that you read through the threads and the numerous testimonials of Masons, ex-Masons, Mason's wivies, media articles, FBI and police reports which litter particularly this thread ( "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters" www.abovetopsecret.com... ) and if you have any evidence to suggest that any of such allegations are false, then please present it. It is you who presents "no proof" that any allegations made here are false..

When evidence, argument and analysis of Masonic cultism is presented, then simple contradition is generally one of the cries of the despairing in debate by the Masonic cult apologists here, and is not really part of the defintion of inteliigent debate. "I don't agree with that" and "that is not true" are simple contradictions; an "argument" would attempt to establish "why" facts, testimonials and analysis is untrue or incorrect or not factual.



Above: On how "not" to construct an argument. From "Monty Python."

My Judgement

A moral judgment (a subjective discernment of good and evil) is never a "fact" which an be weighed or measured; it is a subjective judgement based on evidence and testimonials regarding human behaviour. Since this is predominately an American forum, and Americans are predominately religious fanatics and anti-Communists, and the majority of contributers to this forum appear to be "pro-cultist," apologists for religious fanaticism who consider ideological Capitalism, anti-Communism and Anglo-American Imperialism, state terrorism, narcoterrorism, etc., to be "good" they will probably not share my judgement on the Masonic culists; that is irrelevant to me, since as far as I am concerned, "I" am the judge of the matter, and I judge the matter of Masonic cultism as an ideologcal Anarchist, a Communist and evangelical anti-Christian, anti-cultist and an opponent of all forms of organised religion and ganster Captialism; all of which is sufficient to define me as diabolical Satanic by the various religious fanatics and terrorist apologists here.

His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer

reply to post by Lucifer777


Just so I can clarify my objections to your line of "thinking", you claim that american "Masonry" is into all this gay fantasy stuff. But you only can bring a few personal testimonies of questionable characters with evidence, and then only to the Shrine and one of it's sub bodies, and then only to a select few members. Yet when I try (to no avail since a brick wall has more responsive understanding than you) to explain that Masonry is universal all over the world, including Scotland, you fail to grasp that. If you were to close your mouth for a brief moment and actually study the global aspects of craft masonry, you would find that Blue lodge masonry is the same in US, UK, India, Scotland, Greenland, and Iceland. We use virtually the same ritual, we learn things the same way, and we all take the same obligations. Including your father.

I would invite you to look back at your first few posts and the responses you received from people on this site. Most everyone tried to be cordial and well mannered to you. You came out of the gate trying to be disliked by all and in that only partially succeed. If you goal is to be disregarded as a pinhead or a troll, then by all means continue with your current direction, but if you decide that you would like to have actual conversations with people here, you might want to read a bit of the past threads and learn how to do it without being a dick. many in the past have been able to accomplish that task while still getting their point across. At a few very brief moments, you almost seem like you could have some value in your words. It would be a shame to have all of them ignored by most simply because you want to be different.

And please, if you have any shred of decency in your body, do not reply to this post with pictures or a 1000 word essay.