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posted on May, 4 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by Mason mike

Originally posted by Lucifer777

I have always been openly bisexual and my current girlfriend could assure you that I am not a homosexual;


sorry sally, once a pickle smoker, always a pickle smoker. It's like doing shots of Tequila, once you have done a few, you can't stop the inevitable.

And just so you know, masonry is the same globally. So UK masons practice the same version we do here. And vice versa. I would start your witch hunt by questioning daddy and see how many times he has dealt with pistols in lodge assembled, or whipped cream as part of a ceremony. Just don't tell him about Bubba.


While i agree if you sleep with men your gay your not like Peter North(adult film actor) who was gay for pay even tho he was gay he got pay.....

Just kidding what one does in ones private time is not for me to judge, i just find all this talk of eletrodes to the buttock, fake gold showers and such intresting if the whole mantra is to "make good men better" or greater or what have you, i'v givin my take on the whole thing, i think hazing has happened in some lodges but it's not too main stream, just my opinion as a outsider...
edit on 4-5-2011 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 4 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Mason mike

And just so you know, masonry is the same globally. So UK masons practice the same version we do here. And vice versa. I would start your witch hunt by questioning daddy and see how many times he has dealt with pistols in lodge assembled, or whipped cream as part of a ceremony. Just don't tell him about Bubba.



Freemasonry is an assortment of numerous rituals and side degrees; it is certainly does not have a unified cult ritual such as the Catholic church does. For example I find no evidence that Scottish Masons (Masons in Scotland) practice the sacred and holy application of whipped cream and strawberries to the gentials, the application of electric shocks and the "dog urination" or "simulated oral sex with a hot dog ritual" or any of the other homo-erotic BDSM rituals practiced by American Masons; thus an American "Scottish rite" Mason who joins Shriner Masonry will have a different experience than a Scottish Mason in Scotland. In general one could expect the Scottish Masons to have a more traditional and even homophobic atttude than the American Masons for whom homo-erotic rituals seem to be widespread.

Masonic Trolls

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog........Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community."

All my posts here are relevant to the subject of American Freemasonry and include the subject of sacred and holy secretive hazing rituals. However I would like to encourage Masonic trolls in their consistent abuse, deception, cult denialism, obfuscation, bearing false witness and temper tantrums etc; please feel free to be yourselves and to further tarnish your reputation. Thank you for your assistance in this matter and if there is anything I can do top further assist you in presenting yourselves in this way, please do not hesitate to ask.


His Imperial Majesty

Lucifer


____________



Originally posted by King Seesar

i just find all this talk of eletrodes to the buttock, fake gold showers and such intresting if the whole mantra is to "make good men better" or greater or what have you,





Well once one engages in the academic "study of religion" one often soon realises that one is really engaged in the "study of human stupidity," and yet almost all religions would claim to produce "good" people; that is to say hypnotised and indoctrinated cultists.

Rather ridiculous rituals, prompous fancy dress costumes, point hats and so forth are all part of religious cultism, and the world's biggest religious cult (i.e., the Catholic Church) is no different; what is patently ridiculous to a non Catholic can be taken with the utmost seriousness by the victim of religious hypnosis and indoctrination.

On my sattelite TV system, I have about 16 Christian channels, all broadcasting the same American style repetitive "praise Jesus" propaganda, apart from the hilarious Catholic channel. Sometimes if I have freinds over for a few drinks, I put on one of these channels and we all start jumping around praising Jesus and we find it all absolutely hilarious and ridiculous that the American Masses buy this sort of total nonesense; it is like a Monty Python comedy show, and yet those who are under cult mind control can take such things very seriously indeed.



Bear in mind that it is not just "any" Freemason who is subjected to such rituals as electrocution, dog urination and the holy and sacred application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals; this is reserved for the elect; in other words you have to be firstly a Blue Lodge Mason and then invited to join "side degrees;" and so not all Masons here will have been considered worthy enough yet to join these elect degress and undergo these holy and sacred rites.

In the study of religious cults, many of these cults have certain things which they do not wish to be revealed. For example the Scientologists have in the past enacted law suits to try to stop the Internet publication of L. Ron Hubbard's OT documents which are only revealed to the elect, once a person has been in the cut for a while and subjected to cult hypnosis and indoctrnation. When a non cultist reads the OT documents, they are a mixture of psycho-babble and some of the most ridiculous and childish beliefs imaginable.

Consider:




Scientology and Xemu (aka Xenu)

Who is Xemu? I'm going to tell you a story. Are you sitting comfortably? Right, then I'll begin.
Once upon a time (75 million years ago to be more precise) there was an alien galactic ruler named Xemu. Xemu was in charge of all the planets in this part of the galaxy including our own planet Earth, except in those days it was called Teegeeack.

Now Xemu had a problem. All of the 76 planets he controlled were over-populated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of all the overpopulation so he had a plan.

Xemu took over complete control with the help of renegades to defeat the good people and the Loyal Officers. Then with the help of psychiatrists he called in billions of people for income tax inspections where they were instead given injections of alcohol and glycol mixed to paralyse them. Then they were put into space planes that looked exactly like DC8s (except they had rocket motors instead of propellers).

These DC8 space planes then flew to planet Earth where the paralysed people were stacked around the bases of volcanoes in their hundreds of billions. When they had finished stacking them around then H-bombs were lowered into the volcanoes. Xemu then detonated all the H-bombs at the same time and everyone was killed.

The story doesn't end there though. Since everyone has a soul (called a "thetan" in this story) then you have to trick souls into not coming back again. So while the hundreds of billions of souls were being blown around by the nuclear winds he had special electronic traps that caught all the souls in electronic beams (the electronic beams were sticky like fly-paper).

After he had captured all these souls he had them packed into boxes and taken to a few huge cinemas. There all the souls had to spend days watching special 3D motion pictures that told them what life should be like and many confusing things. In this film they were shown false pictures and told they were God, The Devil and Christ. In the story this process is called "implanting".

When the films ended and the souls left the cinema these souls started to stick together because since they had all seen the same film they thought they were the same people. They clustered in groups of a few thousand. Now because there were only a few living bodies left they stayed as clusters and inhabited these bodies.

As for Xemu, the Loyal Officers finally overthrew him and they locked him away in a mountain on one of the planets. He is kept in by a force-field powered by an eternal battery and Xemu is still alive today.

That is the end of the story. And so today everyone is full of these clusters of souls called "body thetans". And if we are to be a free soul then we have to remove all these "body thetans" and pay lots of money to do so. And the only reason people believe in God and Christ was because it was in the film their body thetans saw 75 million years ago.



Well what did you think of that story?
What? You thought it was a stupid story?

Well so do we. Unfortunately this stupid story is the core belief in the "religion" known as Scientology.* If people knew about this story then most people would never get involved in it. This story is told to you when you reach one of their secret levels called OT III. After that you are supposed to telepathically communicate with these body thetans to make them go away. You have to pay a lot of money to get to this level and do this (or you have to work very hard for the organisation on extremely low pay for many years).

We are telling you this story as a warning. If you become involved with Scientology then we would like you to do so with your eyes open and fully aware of the sort of material it contains.

Most of the Scientologists that work in their Dianetics* centres and so called "Churches" of Scientology do not know this story since they are not allowed to hear it until they reach the secret "upper" levels of Scientology. It may take them many years before they reach this level if they ever do. The ones who do know it are forced to keep it a secret and not tell it to those people who are joining Scientology.

Now you have read this you know their big secret. Don't let us put you off joining though.

www.holysmoke.org...



Now of course any sane, rational educated person reading Hubbards OT3 would probably think what a lot of absolute childish nonsesne; it is not even very good science fiction; never the less indoctrinated and hypnotised cult members often have to work for many years and a pay a great deal of money for such secrets to be revealed.

Similarly with Freemasonry, the Freemaons are as resistant to the revealing of their secretive and holy "application of whipped cream and strawberres to the genitals," electrocution, "dog urination" and homo-erotic BDSM rituals as the Scientologists are regarding their silly OT3 beliefs. It is perfectly natural for religious cultists to deny the most outrageous and secretive beliefs, since they know that they are going to be subjected to public ridicule.




Similarly with the Korean Moon cult, they have secretive teachings which are not revealed to most cultists and certainly not to non cultists; for example it can be established that the Korean Messiah believes that his semen is holy and gives birth to a new holy master race; many of the wives of his early mass weddings were inseminated by Moon prior to their husbands, and thus their first child is often a child of Moon's master race. There is ample evidence from the testimony of early members to establish this, but if you raise the matter with Moon cultists on the Internet you will find the same bouts of denialism that you will with Scientologists and Masons when their secrets are revealed. Such culkt denialism is all quite uncommon.

Lux

edit on 4-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: addition to text



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 


I laugh at some of the christian channels too and i consider my self christian, but what you are watching is just a bunch of charlatans if you base your view on religion on this i see why you would see it as absurd but yea i agree it's more then likely side degrees that still do this type of hazing, if it were regular masonry we would have heard much more about these things if nothing more then for a good laugh during a late eighties Leslie Nielsen movie...
edit on 4-5-2011 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous,

or

off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog........Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community
."

All my posts here are relevant to the subject of American Freemasonry and include the subject of sacred and holy secretive hazing rituals. However I would like to encourage Masonic trolls in their consistent abuse, deception, cult denialism, obfuscation, bearing false witness and temper tantrums etc; please feel free to be yourselves and to further tarnish your reputation. Thank you for your assistance in this matter and if there is anything I can do top further assist you in presenting yourselves in this way, please do not hesitate to ask.


Her Imperial Majesty

Lucifer



basically a troll tries to provoke a negative response. If you look at the bolded portions above, you might even see (and be able to comprehend) that the word "or" is used instead of "and". UK English being a bit different than american English must be the problem.



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


I laugh at some of the christian channels too and i consider my self christian, but what you are watching is just a bunch of charlatans.


Frankly the numerous evangelists who can be described as charlatans, exorcists fake healers and fake miracle workers who pray on the sick, the vulnerable and the disabled, are simply following the teachings of Jesus of the Gospels, who commanded his followers to go out and perform fake healings and miracles, perform excorcisms and to "raise the dead." 2000 years ago what we would refer to as "stage magic tricks" were quite commonly combined with religion, just as it is in India today where numerous wandering holy men also have a sideline in stage magic.

I don't see how a Christian can define the numerous Christian fake healers and fake miracles workers as charlatans without also defining the religious fanatic and religious schizophrenic described in the Gospels as also being a charlatan. No modern, rational, educated, scientific person would ever believe that a bunch of 2000 year old primitive religious fanatics could miraculously cure blindness, leprosy and cure the mentally and physicall handicapped through "casting out evil spirits" unless they have been subjected to religious hypnosis and indoctrination, which is a process which interferes with critical thinking.



if you base your view on religion on this i see why you would see it as absurd but yea i agree it's more then likely side degrees that still do this type of hazing, if it were regular masonry we would have heard much more about these things if nothing more then for a good laugh during a late eighties Leslie Nielsen movie..


Perhaps you have not seen the following:



Freemasonry is a term which we could use to describe a wide variety of sects within sects, some of which are referred to as "side degrees;" however that is part of what Masonry is; the more bizarre rituals are not for Neophytes (newcomers, novices); they are for Masons who have gone through various other degrees; thus the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals is an "advanced" Masonic initiation availble only to the elect who have gone through the intial cult hypnosis and indoctrination or "gang initiation."


Lux
edit on 4-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting


_________________


Originally posted by Mason mike

Originally posted by Lucifer777
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous,

or

off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog........Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community
."

All my posts here are relevant to the subject of American Freemasonry and include the subject of sacred and holy secretive hazing rituals. However I would like to encourage Masonic trolls in their consistent abuse, deception, cult denialism, obfuscation, bearing false witness and temper tantrums etc; please feel free to be yourselves and to further tarnish your reputation. Thank you for your assistance in this matter and if there is anything I can do top further assist you in presenting yourselves in this way, please do not hesitate to ask.


Her Imperial Majesty

Lucifer



basically a troll tries to provoke a negative response. If you look at the bolded portions above, you might even see (and be able to comprehend) that the word "or" is used instead of "and". UK English being a bit different than american English must be the problem.



You obviously have nothing to contribute to this thread other than abuse, deception, contradiction without argument and evidence and general cult denialism, which I essentially would define as the behaviour of a troll or a "football hooligan's" debating strategy; nevertheless I don't want to suggest that you are contributing "nothing" to the thread and I would like to encourage you to continue with your ranting, since this is a public debate and in the interests of the academic study of religion, it is important for the Freemasons to behave naturally.


Above a brief humerous introduction in how "not" to construct an "Argument."

Lucifer

edit on 4-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: addition to text



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 


The thing is when most of these people on tv do there so called miracles most of it is what they call in the wrestling world "a work" they know there not healing anybody but the person on stage just acts it out, it's all scripted and i don't mean by the bible....

Even if you don't agree with what Jesus did (i do) he at least believed in what he was doing so it wasen't "a work" it was real in his mind anyway...

edit on 4-5-2011 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 05:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


I laugh at some of the christian channels too and i consider my self christian, but what you are watching is just a bunch of charlatans.


Frankly the numerous evangelists who can be described as charlatans, exorcists fake healers and fake miracle workers who pray on the sick, the vulnerable and the disabled, are simply following the teachings of Jesus of the Gospels, who commanded his followers to go out and perform fake healings and miracles, perform excorcisms and to "raise the dead." 2000 years ago what we would refer to as "stage magic tricks" were quite commonly combined with religion, just as it is in India today where numerous wandering holy men also have a sideline in stage magic.

I don't see how a Christian can define the numerous Christian fake healers and fake miracles workers as charlatans without also defining the religious fanatic and religious schizophrenic described in the Gospels as also being a charlatan. No modern, rational, educated, scientific person would ever believe that a bunch of 2000 year old primitive religious fanatics could miraculously cure blindness, leprosy and cure the mentally and physicall handicapped through "casting out evil spirits" unless they have been subjected to religious hypnosis and indoctrination, which is a process which interferes with critical thinking.



if you base your view on religion on this i see why you would see it as absurd but yea i agree it's more then likely side degrees that still do this type of hazing, if it were regular masonry we would have heard much more about these things if nothing more then for a good laugh during a late eighties Leslie Nielsen movie..


Perhaps you have not seen the following:



Freemasonry is a term which we could use to describe a wide variety of sects within sects, some of which are referred to as "side degrees;" however that is part of what Masonry is; the more bizarre rituals are not for Neophytes (newcomers, novices); they are for Masons who have gone through various other degrees; thus the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals is an "advanced" Masonic initiation availble only to the elect who have gone through the intial cult hypnosis and indoctrination or "gang initiation."


Lux
edit on 4-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting


_________________


Originally posted by Mason mike

Originally posted by Lucifer777
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous,

or

off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog........Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community
."

All my posts here are relevant to the subject of American Freemasonry and include the subject of sacred and holy secretive hazing rituals. However I would like to encourage Masonic trolls in their consistent abuse, deception, cult denialism, obfuscation, bearing false witness and temper tantrums etc; please feel free to be yourselves and to further tarnish your reputation. Thank you for your assistance in this matter and if there is anything I can do top further assist you in presenting yourselves in this way, please do not hesitate to ask.


Her Imperial Majesty

Lucifer



basically a troll tries to provoke a negative response. If you look at the bolded portions above, you might even see (and be able to comprehend) that the word "or" is used instead of "and". UK English being a bit different than american English must be the problem.



You obviously have nothing to contribute to this thread other than abuse, deception, contradiction without argument and evidence and general cult denialism, which I essentially would define as the behaviour of a troll or a "football hooligan's" debating strategy; nevertheless I don't want to suggest that you are contributing "nothing" to the thread and I would like to encourage you to continue with your ranting, since this is a public debate and in the interests of the academic study of religion, it is important for the Freemasons to behave naturally.


Above a brief humerous introduction in how "not" to construct an "Argument."

Lucifer

edit on 4-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: addition to text





You obviously have nothing to contribute to this thread other than abuse, deception, contradiction without argument and evidence and general cult denialism.


Awww, U mad bro?





posted on May, 4 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Mason mike

Originally posted by Lucifer777

You obviously have nothing to contribute to this thread other than abuse, deception, contradiction without argument and evidence and general cult denialism.


Awww, U mad bro?





No not at all darling; please feel free to troll the thread and to behave as badly as you possibly can, and I encourage all Masonic cultists to do likewise; anything I can do to assist you in this matter, please don't hesitate to ask. I don't expect intelligent debate from religious cultists and I have come to be rather familiar with their incessant temper tantrums and abuse.


His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


The thing is when most of these people on tv do there so called miracles most of it is what they call in the wrestling world "a work" they know there not healing anybody but the person on stage just acts it out, it's all scripted and i don't mean by the bible....

Even if you don't agree with what Jesus did (i do) he at least believed in what he was doing so it wasen't "a work" it was real in his mind anyway...


I don't really want to turn this thread into a "Jesus" discussion however see my essay: "The New Testament: A Fourth Century Fabrication. The 7 Signs of a Christian Charlatan" subtitled The New Testament: A Fabrication, created for Social Control. The Conclusions of Historical and Textual Studies of the New Testament. on: www.abovetopsecret.com... and " Is the New Testament Fabricated & Fraudulent? on: forum.davidicke.com...

Essentially the New Testament is a fabricated document derived from "in all, two thousand two hundred and thirty-one scrolls and legendary tales of gods and saviors, together with a record of the doctrines orated by them
(Life of Constantine, see hyperlinked essay above.)" I simply do not see the point of taking it seriously as an historical document.

Further although there were numerous religious fanatics 2000 years ago who claimed to be the Messiah (the king of Israel) and the texts may be based on an historical archetype, if a person geniunely believes in their own mind that they hear voices from God and have special miraculous powers, as many religious schizophrenics do, then they can be classified not merely as charlatans but as being mentally ill. Part of the problem of religious fanaticism is that the religious models of what a "holy person" is, such as Jesus and Mohammad, are classic models of religious schizophrenia; when we have schiziod models as models of "human perfection" it is no wonder that we live in a rather insane world.


Originally posted by Lucifer777



The Seven Signs of a Christian Charlatan.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
Mark 16.

Consider the 7 Signs of those who are allegedly "not" condemned according to the Gospel of Mark

1: You must believe.
2: You must be baptised.
3: You must be able to perform exorcisms.
4: You must be able to speak in New Tongues.
5: You must be able to pick up serpents.
6: You must be able to safely drink any deadly poison.
7: You must be able to lay hands on the sick and miraculously cure them.


If you do not have the 7 signs, you are allegedly condemned by the first century religious fanatic and fake healer Jesus and you won't get to spend all eternity with other Christian fake healers and religious charlatans.

It was also stated by the Jesus of the Gospels that his followers would do even "greater things than he."



I think that the "belief only" theology was possibly developed because the professional Christian hypocrites realised that many of the teachings of Jesus were either too hard or impossible to follow.

We know that Christians cannot safely drink poison or miraculously cure leprosy and blindness, and since the professional Christian hypnotists know this also, they have just developed this much easier "belief only" theology, where you just become a rambling religious fanatic, talk incessantly about the teachings of Jesus, and yet reject the teachings of Jesus, and the religion of Jesus (fundamentalist Judaism) apart from a few ethical maxims about love and so forth, which were common to that era; it is really just all about "believing" and about acting like a total hypocrite and being eternally rewarded for that.


Any religious fanatic (such as Jesus) who encourages his followers to drink deadly poison (as the American Messiah, Jim Jones, of the Jonestown cult did) to practice exorcisms on the mentally and physically handicapped, to claim to cure illnesses miraculously by the laying on of hands, to pick up deadly serpents and to have "faith" in what is irrational and unscientific is either a religious charlatan (i.e., a con man) or is a religious schizophrenic and seriously mentally ill.

If the Christians are awaiting the return of a religious schizophrenic or a religious charlatan, they need wait no longer, the mental hospitals and churches are full of them.

Holy Holy.

More on the thread: "The Dangers of Religious Hypnosis and Indoctrination: The genocidal faiths of Christianity & Islam, on: www.abovetopsecret.com...

His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer
"Advocatus diaboli"



edit on 4-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Text was not blasphemous and diabolical enough; not enough Christian flesh and blood sacrificed and devoured.



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 05:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by Lucifer777
 


The thing is when most of these people on tv do there so called miracles most of it is what they call in the wrestling world "a work" they know there not healing anybody but the person on stage just acts it out, it's all scripted and i don't mean by the bible....

Even if you don't agree with what Jesus did (i do) he at least believed in what he was doing so it wasen't "a work" it was real in his mind anyway...


I don't really want to turn this thread into a "Jesus" discussion however see my essay: "The New Testament: A Fourth Century Fabrication. The 7 Signs of a Christian Charlatan" subtitled The New Testament: A Fabrication, created for Social Control. The Conclusions of Historical and Textual Studies of the New Testament. on: www.abovetopsecret.com... and " Is the New Testament Fabricated & Fraudulent? on: forum.davidicke.com...

Essentially the New Testament is a fabricated document derived from "in all, two thousand two hundred and thirty-one scrolls and legendary tales of gods and saviors, together with a record of the doctrines orated by them
(Life of Constantine, see hyperlinked essay above.)" I simply do not see the point of taking it seriously as an historical document.

Further although there were numerous religious fanatics 2000 years ago who claimed to be the Messiah (the king of Israel) and the texts may be based on an historical archetype, if a person geniunely believes in their own mind that they hear voices from God and have special miraculous powers, as many religious schizophrenics do, then they can be classified not merely as charlatans but as being mentally ill. Part of the problem of religious fanaticism is that the religious models of what a "holy person" is, such as Jesus and Mohammad, are classic models of religious schizophrenia; when we have schiziod models as models of "human perfection" it is no wonder that we live in a rather insane world.

Lux








Yea we agree to disagree on the merits of Jesus and what constitues a charlatan, if a person is hearing voices in there head you are right it's more then likley one of two things either A: there schizophrenic or B: there being experimented on with advanced technology, both cases exist, the way i see it is God hasen't talked to many people and i doubt he's talking to them verbally now....

But yea i'm aware of your thoughts on religion also masonry and politics and even tho we disagree on certin issues i agree with your points on others such as the Military–industrial complex ect ect...



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by Mason mike

Originally posted by Lucifer777

You obviously have nothing to contribute to this thread other than abuse, deception, contradiction without argument and evidence and general cult denialism.


Awww, U mad bro?





No not at all darling; please feel free to troll the thread and to behave as badly as you possibly can, and I encourage all Masonic cultists to do likewise; anything I can do to assist you in this matter, please don't hesitate to ask. I don't expect intelligent debate from religious cultists and I have come to be rather familiar with their incessant temper tantrums and abuse.


Her Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer






sure am glad you aren't mad.
bro.



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 06:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by King Seesar

Yea we agree to disagree on the merits of Jesus and what constitues a charlatan, if a person is hearing voices in there head you are right it's more then likley one of two things either A: there schizophrenic or B: there being experimented on with advanced technology, both cases exist, the way i see it is God hasen't talked to many people and i doubt he's talking to them verbally now....

But yea i'm aware of your thoughts on religion also masonry and politics and even tho we disagree on certin issues i agree with your points on others such as the Military–industrial complex ect ect...


The voice of God

The brain is an electro-chemical apparatus which produces consciousness, and consciousness is a great mystery, even to scientists, neurologists, psychiatrists, psychologists and those studying the specialist field of "Psychology of Religion (i.e., essentially the study of mass hypnosis and indoctrination)" however we know for a fact that certain chemicals can produce mystical or "religious" experiences which can seem extremely real to the person experiencing that. I think that this is because essentially consciousness is like a "hallucination" of the world we live in, but it is a hallucination which is related to the world of the 5 senses; with the addition of certain chemicals our audio and video hallucination of the world can be effected and of course it is very "real" to us but it is not necessarily happening in the physical world.

It is only theoretical at the moment, but I think it likely that religious schizophrenics have an anatomy which over-produces '___' and thus they "truly" believe that they are hearing voices from the gods, demons angels, or whatever and having visual hallucinations, but this is only occurring in the mind; it is a totally subjective experience produced by brain chemistry, much like a dream can seem extremely real to us, and our dreams are essential audio and visual hallucinations, though sometimes we can also get a sense of hallucinatory "touch" and actually feel things; I have had dreams where I have been awoken by someone who seems to be physically shaking me although it is simply a hallucination, and this is quite commonplace, as are dreams of succubus and incubus which are essentially erotic dreams where we can become physically aroused..

I think that we can all be sceptical when some charlatan claims "God spoke to me and told me to raise a million dollars for this ministry" but it is quite another matter to doubt the approximately 20% to 25% percent of schizophrenics who are, according to some studies, suffering grom religious forms of schizophenia where they commonly claim to hear voices in their head from God, the gods, demons, angels, etc. They probably are genuinely experiencing this in their minds.

" I have to say that during the three years I was involved with that Harvard study, '___' was not only legal but respectable. Before Tim (Dr. Timothy Leary) went on his unfortunate careening course, it was a legitimate research project. Though I did find evidence that, when recounted, the experiences of the Harvard group and those of mystics were impossible to tell apart." Huston Smith

If God or the gods were going to speak to anyone, I think that She or they would have done so by now, and that She or they would be unlikley to attempt to communicate with primitive religious fanatics and religoius schizophrenics.

If the universe has designers, such gods would clearly have to be of advanced intelligence and their understanding of physics, chemisty, biology and the programming of human consciousness would have to be clearly more advanced that any of the inane ramblings of religious fanatics who mostly have human hating and human nature hating conceptions of deities. "God" or the gods for a religious fanatic is essentially just the anthropomorphic projections of their own personal bigotry and beliefs.

Generally a white American Christian might have visions, dreams or hallucinations of a white American Jesus, just as the Sadhu might have visions, dreams and hallucinations of Shiva, just as a person who has just watched a horror movie might have a horrific dream related to the movie, just as a Masonic cultist might have mystical dreams relating to their cult initiations; such is the power of the human mnd; however these are all entirely subjective inner experiences and if one takes them too seriously, one can become totally deluded. A major argument for the existence of God or the gods which is not commonly used, is the argument from "religious hypnosis and indoctrination," however this is a sceptical argument based on the "argument from religious experience;" often our life's experiences and conditioning can manifest as mystical or hallucinatory experiences; even members of rather evil and bizarre religious cults report experiences where perhaps their cult leader will appear to them or perhaps their rather evil religion will be "confirmed to them in a dream;" in fact even "I" have appeared to persons whom I have been in communication with in dreams; this is all entirely unsurprising and quite normal; thoughts are part of our reality and can create our dream world. If I were to appear in a dream to any Masons on this forum as a diabolical sadist, and force them to endure the sacred and holy Hula Hula Bull dance or ritual beatings and BDSM hazings (or worse) then that would be unsurprising if they were thinking about such things.

This is not to suggest at all that I reject the existence of the gods (and goddesses) since I have had a lifetime of bizzare mystical experiences, which I generally question as I know that they are totally subjective; I simply believe that there are other dimensions of reality apart from our 5 sensory dimensions where there are intelligent beings; however the attempt to communicate with the gods generally ends up with the symptoms of religious schizophrenia. It would be a far better world if we all worshipped and loved each other and that is an essense of natural religion and of philosophical humanism.

Lux
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posted on May, 4 2011 @ 06:34 PM
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Yea that's what makes you intresting because you've had experiences that can't be explained by modern science or i should say modern science that isn't classified, i'm one of the most logical people you could ever meet but i'v had experiences that some would say isn't covered by thus modern science either...

Yea that is another point of yours i agree with i do think there are other dimensions and some times different dimensions bleed into each other, the only point we disagree on is i think one of those dimensions is heaven, like you said you have been in a plane many times before and you ran into no heaven and it's like i said people only point up as a symbol of faith, heaven is a dimension in my opinion..



posted on May, 4 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by King Seesar
Yea that's what makes you intresting because you've had experiences that can't be explained by modern science or i should say modern science that isn't classified, i'm one of the most logical people you could ever meet but i'v had experiences that some would say isn't covered by thus modern science either...

Yea that is another point of yours i agree with i do think there are other dimensions and some times different dimensions bleed into each other, the only point we disagree on is i think one of those dimensions is heaven, like you said you have been in a plane many times before and you ran into no heaven and it's like i said people only point up as a symbol of faith, heaven is a dimension in my opinion..


Personally I don't believe in the doctrine of reincarnation; never the less I do believe that human consciousness is eternal and survives the death of the human brain; I cannot prove this of course, but I "believe" this based on numerous mystical experiences. Generally I think that our enemies and allies on earth become our eternal enemies and allies, and that "organised religion" is a curse, not a means to eternal salvation; some of the most humanitarian, socialist, philosophical and loving people, and many of my philosophical mentors have been entirely anti-religious and have hated and despised religion. I must admit that I believe that the religious fanatics become eternally bound together, so I suppose I share the belief of Masons that they will end up with other gangster Capitalists, Imperialists and state terrorist collaborators like themselves in the afterlife; however they will also have to face their enemies and victims. I don't think that there is a singular heaven and a singular hell; I subscribe more to the multiverse theory; there may well be many more dimensions than there are stars in our universe. Some of those dimensions may well be a state of "heaven" but I doubt that they would resemble the poverty, tyranny and slavery of the Capitalist world; unfortunately I have also had numerous "bad" mystical experiences and in certain times grew accustomed to them; their may well be heavenly domains but there may well also be many hellish domains; those who contribute to economic and religious hell on earth, may well find themselves eternally confined to such realms.

I personally have no religion to share; I don't belong to any form of organised religion, though I would describe myself as being a Neopagan, Kabbalist and Crowleyist to a degree; I do not believe that there is "salvation" in any specific religion; on the contrary; I consider organised religion to be responsible for creating human slaves and human masters; organised religion is simply a means of creating a mass of hypnotised and indoctrinated slaves, and thus generally I think it to be healthier psychologicall to simply think as a humanist or even as an atheist, and certainly as a Nietzschean when it comes to the metaphysical ramblings of the religionists, and when it comes to politics and economics, it is better to set all irrationality and thoughts of religion and metaphysics aside, and in this respect I have to side with the Anarchists, Socialists, Marxists and Neomarxists..

"For every slave a master and for every master a slave; neither slaves nor masters be; no gods no masters."

It is not so much that I can say that there are no gods and goddesses, but there are none that I worship apart from the gods and goddesses of the natural world (i.e., human beings); if there were beings of love in other dimensions who can observe us, it is they whom I would expect to love and worship me; I am unconcerned with the worship of beings whom I cannot see and hear; we are seven billion human beings here and we are all potential gods and goddesses; though many are they who are trapped in economic slavery, sex slavery and the mental slavery of the memetic virus of religion, and for many it is simply economc and psychological hell on earth.

The idea of a "God" who can read the minds of billions of people simultaneously seems inconceivable to me and would seem to be more like a giant computer program, and frankly that is what I believe the universe to be, a giant virtual reality program, which it's original designers may be able to observe, but are unable to completely interfere with, since the inhabitants of the program appear to have free will. I suppose this is an extension of the Deistic view, however it does not imply monotheism or a singular designer; the universe may well have had many designers who have attempted to interefere and experiment with the programming over many billions of years, and who are not themselves part of the program but outside it. This of course leads to the question of who designed the realm of the designers and so forth, which leads to an endess serious of questions which seems end up in total irrationality unfortunately.

"There is no God where I am;" there is only myself and other gods and goddesses of the natural world (i.e., human beings)

"There is no god but man (and woman)"

Lucifer


....the criticism of religion is the prerequisite of all criticism.

The profane existence of error is compromised as soon as its heavenly oratio pro aris et focis [“speech for the altars and hearths,” i.e., for God and country] has been refuted. Man, who has found only the reflection of himself in the fantastic reality of heaven, where he sought a superman, will no longer feel disposed to find the mere appearance of himself, the non-man [Unmensch], where he seeks and must seek his true reality.

The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man.

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world.

Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.
Karl Marx

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posted on May, 4 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 

Please focus on the point that I was discussing the York Rite and your claims of its hazing rituals. The story you posted discussed nothing of the York Rite.

I'm not denying this incident happened. I abhor what happened as a few members put some bad light on the fraternity by conducting some childish prank in their little club.

Quit being a revisionist. You can't just change our terms around to meet the needs of your story. What a Mason did outside the Blue Lodge is not evidence of hazing in the York Rite.

Guns do not take part in any Masonic ritual. Please find me the ritual in which it does and I'll refute my statement. This local club is not evidence to the contrary either. The way your misconstrue facts and twist words is the exact same way predators have always justified their actions against their victim. Did funds from the Lodge finance this club? Did the Grand Lodge sanction it? No it wasn't and no it didn't.

Do you even know how long that club existed before this incident occurred?

You using this story is just furtherr evidence that you wish to defame an entire organization on what a handful of people did.

It is clear that you do not grasp the concept of the York Rite Freemasonry and its relationship to the Blue Lodge. You also are mistaken about a great many things concerning the ritual of the Blue Lodge (if you think a guillotine and gun are used).

Here's the difference though, my knowledge comes from first hand experience while yours comes from, at best, 2nd hand information. You pull from sources who may or may not have alterior motives, and you often further twist and misconstrue facts to suit your motives.


further Schnoebelen's claims of bizarre hazing rituals in Shriner Masonry (which includes participants of numerous other rites, such as the York rite, Scottish rite, etc., all of whom can be classed as having undergone "Blue Lodge" initiations) can be verified from the numerous other sources which litter this thread, including the admission of current Masons who concede that such bizarre hazing rituals do take place.

Actually, you have yet to prove any hazing in the York Rite.
edit on 4-5-2011 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

Please focus on the point that I was discussing the York Rite and your claims of its hazing rituals. The story you posted discussed nothing of the York Rite.



The three major Masonic rites in the US appear to be the York Rite, the Scottish rite and the Shriners and all three rites have the three blue degrees in common. For the purposes of avoiding obfuscation I think it better to simply state that hazing rituals occur in American Masonry, and that the Masons involved in such rituals are of various rites.

Since there is essentially no such a thing as Masonry independent of Freemasons (i.e., persons who are Freemasons) just as there is no such a thing as Christianity independent of Christians (persons who are Christians), I think it better to merely claim that those taking part in Masonic hazings rituals are members of various rites, such as the York Rite, Scottish Rite or whatever, all of whom have undergone the basic blue degrees,

In the case of the 76 year old Albert Eid, I am unable to source the article which claimed that he was a York Rite Mason, however rather than stating that hazing rituals occur in York Rite Masonry, which can lead to obfuscation by Masonic cultists and apologists, I think it better to simply claim that York rite Masons are involved in hazing rituals, as indeed are Scottish Rite Masons, these being the two main divisions of Masonry which are joined after the first three degrees, and that some of these Masons are also involved in side degrees such as the Shriners where there are clearly hazing rituals. The shooting at the Masonic Temple in Patchogue, New York, was clearly not a Shriner ritual however.




Another part of the ceremony required inductees to insert an arm inside a depiction of a horse's rear-end, where gobs of mayonnaise and other gooey substances had been placed, a source familiar with the ceremony said.

The basement of the lodge was adorned with a large replica guillotine for show, rat traps, and a mock plank that inductees were forced to walk blindfolded.

One member of the club, who identified himself only as Joseph, 63, said Wednesday that similar props had been used when he was inducted years ago, including shooting cans that were placed beside his head.

www.freemasonrywatch.org...





Quit being a revisionist. You can't just change our terms around to meet the needs of your story. What a Mason did outside the Blue Lodge is not evidence of hazing in the York Rite.


I am revising my position for language for clarification and in accordance with your request; York Rite and Scottish Rite Masons are members of Shriner Masonry and other side degrees where hazing rituals clearly occur.


Guns do not take part in any Masonic ritual. Please find me the ritual in which it does and I'll refute my statement.


This is obviously a fraudulent statement and typical of cult denialism.




William James, 47, was shot while participating in an induction Monday night at the Southside Masonic Lodge, Suffolk County police said.

hazingmasonic.blogspot.com...



If you wish to dispute that this was an "induction rite" in a Masonic lodge involving Freemasons, I would suggest that you take the matter up with the Suffolk county police in New York and suggest to them that their statements were fraudulent.




Do you even know how long that club existed before this incident occurred?


If you read the article you will find the following:




Carl Fitje, grand master of the New York State Freemasons (search), issued a statement Tuesday denying that guns play a role in any officially sanctioned lodge ceremonies.

"We don't use pistols," Steve Mayo, who described himself as a senior deacon of the lodge, told reporters Tuesday. "This is not a Masonic ceremony where we bring pistols."

However, (Detective) Fitzpatrick said members told police the rite involving a gun goes back at least 70 years.

Ibid


It is irrelevant to me how long that Masonic lodge existed; perhaps you could supply this information; however if you have a problem with detective Fitzpatrick's statement that members told him that the rite involving a gun goes back at least 70 years, I would suggest that you file a complaint against detective Fitzpatrick for making false statements. Further we know from the Demoulay side degree ritual that such fake guns were in use in 1930's as were fake guilloutines, one of which the police reported to have found in the Masonic lodge where the shooting ocurred.


Here's the difference though, my knowledge comes from first hand experience while yours comes from, at best, 2nd hand information. You pull from sources who may or may not have alterior motives, and you often further twist and misconstrue facts to suit your motives.


I am doing my best to choose and revise my language carefully in order "not" to twist facts. I am merely citing media reports, testimonials, police reports, and FBI reports. I do not join cults; I merely study them.




Actually, you have yet to prove any hazing in the York Rite.


OK let me make this clear; there is no such a "thing (i.e., a substance)" as the York Rite; it has no shape nor size; it cannot be measured or weighed; the York Rite does not exist independently of York Rite Masons (I.e., persons who are cult members); it is members of various Masonic sects in the US (of which the two major sects are the York and Scottish Rite) who perform hazing rituals. I hope that this language and sentence construction meets with your approval.

Frankly I find your attitude to be blasphemous and heretical; it is as if you wish to deny the most sacred and holy mock execution rites, and the "shoving ones hand up a horses ass" rite of the Southside Masonic Lodge; you should be utterly ashamed of yourself; why not just be proud of the holy and sacred rites of your eternal brotherhood. It is as if you are ashamed of your eternal brothers. Could it be that you have not yet been considered worthy for the holy and sacred mock execution rite or the shoving one's hand up a horses ass rite? Be of good faith frater and endure; the time will come when all your genocidal mayhem in Iraq will be rewarded in the great Halls of Judgement of the etyernal temple, and I may even be able to put a good word in for you and rush you through to the holy and sacred shoving one's arm up a horses' ass rite, and if you could show a more submissive attitude, I might even be able to put in a word for you and have you rushed through to the most holy and sacred "dog urination and simulated oral sex" rite..

Fraternally Yours

His Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer

edit on 5-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777
The three major Masonic rites in the US appear to be the York Rite, the Scottish rite and the Shriners and all three rites have the three blue degrees in common. For the purposes of avoiding obfuscation I think it better to simply state that hazing rituals occur in American Masonry, and that the Masons involved in such rituals are of various rites.

a dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid


Since there is essentially no such a thing as Masonry independent of Freemasons (i.e., persons who are Freemasons) just as there is no such a thing as Christianity independent of Christians (persons who are Christians), I think it better to merely claim that those taking part in Masonic hazings rituals are members of various rites, such as the York Rite, Scottish Rite or whatever, all of whom have undergone the basic blue degrees,
Just as there's no such thing as Communism, nor Good, nor Evil. Are you going to dismiss all abstract concepts?


In the case of the 76 year old Albert Eid, I am unable to source the article which claimed that he was a York Rite Mason, however rather than stating that hazing rituals occur in York Rite Masonry, which can lead to obfuscation by Masonic cultists and apologists,

Circumstantial ad hominem


I think it better to simply claim that York rite Masons are involved in hazing rituals, as indeed are Scottish Rite Masons, these being the two main divisions of Masonry which are joined after the first three degrees, and that some of these Masons are also involved in side degrees such as the Shriners where there are clearly hazing rituals. The shooting at the Masonic Temple in Patchogue, New York, was clearly not a Shriner ritual however.
Nor was it a York Rite ritual, nor was it a Scottish Rite ritual, nor was it a Blue Lodge Ritual. It was a ritual particular to that one club, which, may only exist in Suffolk County, and may only be 70 years old, but has nothing to do with any other aspect of Masonry other than requiring that it's members meet the prerequisite of being Masons.


I am revising my position for language for clarification and in accordance with your request; York Rite and Scottish Rite Masons are members of Shriner Masonry and other side degrees where hazing rituals clearly occur.

a dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter


This is obviously a fraudulent statement and typical of cult denialism.

Abusive ad hominem


If you wish to dispute that this was an "induction rite" in a Masonic lodge involving Freemasons, I would suggest that you take the matter up with the Suffolk county police in New York and suggest to them that their statements were fraudulent.
No, what's fraudulent is how you're spinning the facts to suit your own ends. The fact is, the Masonic lodge room was rented out to a group. That group was not a Masonic blue lodge acting under the authority of the Grand Lodge of New York, nor a York Rite body, nor a Scottish Rite body, nor a subset of the Shriners. It was a club entirely independent of the rule of any of those other groups.


OK let me make this clear; there is no such a "thing (i.e., a substance)" as the York Rite; it has no shape nor size; it cannot be measured or weighed; the York Rite does not exist independently of York Rite Masons
You're wrong. It exists in the constitution, bylaws and ritual of the order. It exists within the lodge room from the gavel opening the lodge until the gavel closing the lodge.

(and to add to the ever growing lists of logical fallacies you tend to commit, proof by verbosity is, by far, your biggest offense.)



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 

If anything you're creating confusion by lumping them all together and mismatching terms. To say because you found an article about a local group doesn't denote widespread use of that same activities. Nor can you say that because the Shriners were sued in the past does it prove that the Scottish Rite or York Rite have done anything wrong.

Unless you can prove where in the ritual something is done, its nothing more than a lie. I await your post on how the York Rite hazes.

What Albert Eid did in the "Fellowcraft Club" has nothing to do with the York Rite, even if he was a member of the York Rite as I believe the "Fellowcraft Club" just required its members to be Masons in good standing. I haven't read how the York Rite is involved in any way. This little club is also not indicative that hazing occurs in the Blue Lodge as it is not actually a sanctioned Masonic body. This was a local club. What you are doing is guilt by association. You could say that a handful people belonging to any group has done something wrong and as such the whole group is bad. It's illogical though without proof.


I think it better to simply claim that York rite Masons are involved in hazing rituals, as indeed are Scottish Rite Masons

Where in our rituals does hazing occur?


The shooting at the Masonic Temple in Patchogue, New York, was clearly not a Shriner ritual however.

And yet it connects the other two? Again, how do you logically do that?

You're revising to suit your needs, not fact or truth. By this your muddying the waters and those not familiar with the Craft will be indeed confused by your constant mislabeling, mismatching, and, worst of all, misconstruing facts.


York Rite and Scottish Rite Masons are members of Shriner Masonry and other side degrees where hazing rituals clearly occur.

BUZZER WRONG


This is obviously a fraudulent statement and typical of cult denialism.

In what recognized Masonic ritual does this occur in? 1st degree? 2nd degree? 3rd degree? Where? What occurred in that club is not a Masonic degree either. I'm talking about mainstream, widespread Masonic degrees, not little clubs that pull childish pranks. I will say this as plainly as possible: THIS WAS A [B][U]LOCAL[/U][/B] CLUB, IT'S NOT A RITE OR A ACTUAL MASONIC BODY.

You can play your little game of "there is no York Rite, just York Rite Masons", but its just bull#. It's an independent body with its own power structure and leadership. You have yet to prove that the York Rite has hazing rituals or that they consent to them happening. You have failed to show a York Rite hazing ritual.

I could care less if you found me blasphemous or heretical. I in fact am glad I don't meet the approval of someone of your nature.



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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edit on 5-5-2011 by network dude because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777
I am revising my position for language for clarification and in accordance with your request; York Rite and Scottish Rite Masons are members of Shriner Masonry and other side degrees where hazing rituals clearly occur.

no troll, not even close. they are all separate side degrees of craft masonry. Hazing rituals clearly DO NOT occur in Scottish, or York Rite. Your statement was either an outright lie, or an incredibly ignorant statement.



Guns do not take part in any Masonic ritual. Please find me the ritual in which it does and I'll refute my statement.


This is obviously a fraudulent statement and typical of cult denialism.

no, it's a completely factual statement. It has been proven yet you fail to grasp the concepts of FACT vs. TROLL FICTION.





William James, 47, was shot while participating in an induction Monday night at the Southside Masonic Lodge, Suffolk County police said.

hazingmasonic.blogspot.com...



If you wish to dispute that this was an "induction rite" in a Masonic lodge involving Freemasons, I would suggest that you take the matter up with the Suffolk county police in New York and suggest to them that their statements were fraudulent.


WEAK. Don't cop out now Sally. You brought it up, you prove it. It has already been stated that this incident had to do with some club and not masonry. Again, the ritual for all degrees is readily available online for even the slowest of trolls to read. Find the part in any degree that uses a gun and you will have won, but fail to find it, and well, you fail, again.



Frankly I find your attitude to be blasphemous and heretical; it is as if you wish to deny the most sacred and holy mock execution rites, and the "shoving ones hand up a horses ass" rite of the Southside Masonic Lodge; you should be utterly ashamed of yourself; why not just be proud of the holy and sacred rites of your eternal brotherhood. It is as if you are ashamed of your eternal brothers. Could it be that you have not yet been considered worthy for the holy and sacred mock execution rite or the shoving one's hand up a horses ass rite? Be of good faith frater and endure; the time will come when all your genocidal mayhem in Iraq will be rewarded in the great Halls of Judgement of the etyernal temple, and I may even be able to put a good word in for you and rush you through to the holy and sacred shoving one's arm up a horses' ass rite, and if you could show a more submissive attitude, I might even be able to put in a word for you and have you rushed through to the most holy and sacred "dog urination and simulated oral sex" rite..

Fraternally Yours

Her Imperial Satanic Majesty

Lucifer



just so you know, Troll, the part that is bolded above is more trolling behavior from a troll. Don't continue to hide from the fact that you are nothing but a mouthy troll, embrace it.





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