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On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters.

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posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

No BDSM occurs in Freemasonry. I know I wouldn't have gone through the degrees if this occurred. Plus, you cannot say what a small, rogue group did is mainstream. People who abuse the funds are usually expelled from that body.



Just to restate the allegations on this thread.

There are numerous Masonic lodge franchises and side degrees. This thread relates specifically to two Masonic "side degrees," the Shriners and Jesters. In the articles presented on this thread, I consider there to be reasonable evidence that there is endemic and widespread financial corruption in these Masonic side degress; it can also be established that both organisations appear to be an excuse for drunken revelry with strippers and prostitutes, and that this is reported to be "commonplace" in both organisations. Since the Shriners is a Masonic side degree which almost a third of all US Masons are alleged to belong to, I hardly consider that to be “a small, rogue group.



There are also articles on this thread containing evidence that rather bizarre "BDSM" style hazing rituals occur in both these Masonic side degrees, and that this practice has also been reported to occur in "Prince Hall" Masonry. Further, in the case of Southside Masonic Lodge No. 493 in New York state, where a fatal shooting occurred during a bizzarre hazing initiation ritual, it has been alleged that the basement of the lodge contained "a 9-foot-tall guillotine, and a setup designed to mimic walking a plank ( hazingmasonic.blogspot.com... )."

There appears to be sufficient evidence to suggest that bizarre hazing rituals are "widespread" in Masonry, however this thread is littered with responses from Masons stating that such rituals do not occur in their own local lodge franchise. Since Freemasonry is part of the multi-billion dollar religious business, and which operates very much like a McDonald's franchise, there are 1000's of Masonic Lodge franchises, and since Masons are bound by oaths of secrecy, and have clearly been unashamedly deceptive on this thread, it is rather a hard task to get to the truth of the matter; however there is sufficient evidence of such hazing rituals in "some" Lodges.







Thus I think there is sufficient evidence to suggest that your statement “No BDSM occurs in Freemasonry,” is entirely untrue; it may well be the case that there are some Masonic Lodge franchises where such BDSM style hazing rituals do not occur, however this does not negate the widespread allegations that there are lodges where such rituals “do” obviously occur.


You insult all of us Masons with your allegations. You defaming our good name with a broad brush of lies.


I am more than happy to retract any of the allegations made here if shown to be untrue. If I have stated a single "lie" in this thread, please provide argument and evidence to this extent; however since you are implying that I am lying about something (without specifically stating what it is), I can do far more than "imply" that it is you who are lying about the general allegations made in this thread. When person in a debate is willing to lie and deceive in order to cover up the nature of US Masonry, that is simply feeding your critics and reinforcing their criticisms.

Since I have had no personal experience within American Masonry, I should point out that the allegations in this thread come from media reports and include testimonials by Masons themselves; thus since a main origin of such allegations “is” testimonials by Masons themselves, US media reports, and the FBI, I would suggest that you direct your criticisms and denialism towards such sources of the accusations.

What I think is occurring here on the pages of this thread is simply "cult denial-ism;" if American Masons wish to be better understood, and more open about their cult, why not just admit to such widespread hazing rituals and endemic, institutional corruption? I think it would probably assist you in recruiting more corrupt Capitalists for your gangs; and would assist your wives, families and indeed all anti-cultists in gaining a better understanding of your cult.


You do to have animosity towards the Freemasons. It is seen in every word you write, specifically those words that speak of committing genocide against the Freemasons.


With regards to "genocide" against Masons, you appear to be confusing me with someone else, however just to make my position perfectly clear on this, I do not consider myself to be an anti-Mason, but rather an ideological Communist, and therefore an anti-Capitalist and an opponent of organised Capitalist gangs and organised religions.

We have been witnessing since the end of World War Two, armed, violent, genocidal, imperalistic, "World Capitalist Revolution," and the primary instigator of this has been the US state-terrorists / narco-terrorists. Capitalism is a militant ideology, and thus Communism by necessity is also militant ideology.

In the Cuban revolution for example, where Cuba was economically a playground for the American Mafia, pimps, casino owners and US corporations, it was simply not possible to take a pacifist position against such gangs of militant Capitalists. Similarly I believe that there must come an age of revolutions "against" the Capitalist system, and that this will not be possible to carry out peacefully, since the many organised gangs of Capitalists are themselves militant.

Since you are a member of the US military, which has certainly been the most genocidal terrorist / narco-terrorist organisation of the 20th and 21st centuries, which has militantly advanced Capitalist revolution, I am certainly no more genocidal than your economic and military masters; I simply have a contrary political ideology.

As far as I am concerned, the Freemasons are an economically powerful Capitalist gang; one gang among many competing gangs in the world; however they possibly constitute "the" most powerful Capitalist gang in the world, and certainly they are the major established Capitalist gang in the UK.

With regards to the "wholesale genocide" of all Freemasons; other anti-Masons on this board may have suggested this; in fact the Christian anti-Masons tend to also be genocidally anti-Communist, and often consider both Communists and Masons to be Satanists. My personal position would be that in future wars and revolutions, "some" Masons may choose to side with the Communists / Socialists; thus I would only consider Masons who are ideologically Capitalist, and those who are willing to fight for the Capitalist system to be unworthy of life. That is a perfectly acceptable dialectical response, to militant, genocidal Capitalist state terrorism / narco-terrorism; however it is an ideological position, not a personal one; I am not personally an aggressive, violent person; on the contrary;



Freemasonry and the Study of Religion and Capitalist Gangs.

Part of the problem with studying organised gangs of Capitalists, is that by their nature, they tend to be secretive. Their gang members are not generally “open” to investigative journalism or academic research; indeed there have been numerous cases of Russian journalists who have been investigating endemic corruption in the Russian state, which is essentially an alliance between organised crime and government, and who have been assassinated. Almost any person investiating the gangs of Capitalism, is gong to expect some resistance, obfuscation and deception, such as that which has been presented in the various Masonic denialism and temper tantrums on this thread. .

Further, in the study of religious cults, it is generally a “ground-rule” that one must consider not only the propaganda of the cultists themselves, but also the writings of their critics and apostates (ex-cultists); and this is entirely appropropriate in the study of Freemasonry, irrespective of the fact that is is rare for a member of a religious cult to admit that they belong to a religious cult; similarly with Masonry.

It is quite common for religious cults to have “insider” secrets and rituals, etc. There have been numerous cases, for example, where the Scientologists have attempted to sue persons for revealing L.Ron Hubbard's OT (Operating Thetan) documents, which are usually only revealed to cultists after many years of membership. If a person can read such documents prior to being enticed by Scientology, I believe that they are so ridiculous, that a normal, modern educated person would be unlikely to join Scientology; similarly with Masonry, I can understand why there is a resistance to revealing their hazing rituals, since the “surprise” element would dissapear, if all potential recruits better understood the rituals they were going to be paying for, prior to joining. Further this process assists a better understanding of what Masonry really is about, rather than the numerous bizarre conspiracy theories which circulate about them.

Lux


edit on 28-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting




posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777


None of the rituals I have gone through involved anything sexual or humiliating, quite the opposite in fact, the ceremonies are solemn and when done right, quite impressive. Again, there are no stripper events. Just because we're a fraternity doesn't mean we are homo-erotic. Not everything has to have a sexual connotation attached to it. You seem way too obsessed with sexuality.


The above is a response on the thread "On the "King of all the World (Hiram Abiff);" the Masonic Messiah & other Masonic Conspiracies"

Rather than just restating all the evidence which responds to the above claims, I am posting this response over here as this thread contains sufficient evidence and testimonials of the rather bizarre Masonic hazing rituals. Of course I am not suggesting that "all" Masonic cultists go through such "advanced" initiations as the sexual humiliation rituals and the funding of prostitute parties with charity funds. However, the general response from Ksigmason and other Masons on this thread is the "argument from ignorance" which is essentially "such things do not happen in my Masonic cult franchise, so therefore thay cannot be happening in any Masonic cult franchise."








posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 10:17 PM
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I am reposting this here since it is relevant to this thread and the same "denialism" from Masonic gang members on ATS about the same issues keeps being raised and re-raised in numerous other threads.

Yawn.

Lucifer


Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777
 






Well the images of Masonic fancy dress costumes and Masonic hazing equipment are presented to give persons a better understanding of Masory; if you wish to explain what you consider to be the "true intent of use" of such fancy dress costumes and hazing equipment, please do so.







We have been over this time and time again on the 240+ posts on the thread "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters" on www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just repeating the same old denialism over and over does not make it any more true.

To restate





Evidence.

In a court of law "evidence" is either "material" evidence or "testimonial" evidence. The evidence presented on the above thread is of both types; for example the images of hazing devices from Masonic supply catalogues is "material evidence" and the numerous testimonies on that thread from Masons and ex-Masons regarding hazing rituals, for example is testimonial evidence; constant denialism and abuse would not be accepted at a defence; you would have to establish that the material evidence had been fabricated or had nothing to do with Masonry and you would have to establish that the testimonial evidence of Masons and ex-Masons (including police reports in the case of the New York Msonic hazing ritual where a murder / manslaughter occurred) which establish that such rituals occur have been fabricated and are perjurous. That would be the basis of an intelligent argument; not your constant denialism and abuse.

Of course since you have consisently praciticed deception, obfuscation, denialism and made totally false statements in defence of your cult, in a court, you would be considered to be guilty of perjury and as being an unreliable witness, and a person of "no moral worth" whatsoever.





Not at all; in common with many religious cults, since Freemasonry is essentially a religoius cult franchise with many sects (sections), the study of "Freemasonry" would have to take into account as many of such sects as possible; however with regards to American Freemasonry, it would seem that such hazing rituals are endemic and widespread in various Masonic sects, including the Shriner and Jesters, the former of which approximately a third of all US Masonic cultists are members of.





If you live next door to a Nazi or a member of the Masonic Mafia, and you are accused of being a Nazi apologist or a Masonic apologist, just because you live next door to them and know them personally, that is an "unjust" legal definition of "guilt by association;" however if you are a Nazi or Masonic apologist yourself, then "guilt by association" applies; we are judged by others on the basis of who our allies are and whom we justify and defend.

.......... (Snipped)

His Imperial Majesty

Lucifer
Ex officio Satanas.
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.


edit on 20-4-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Text was too diabolical; too much Christian flesh and blood consumed; too many virgins sacrificed.



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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Rather than endlessly responding to the "scatter gun" strategy of the Masonic gang members here, where the same issues which have laready been responded to are raised again and again on numerous other threads, I am reposting the following post here, for the sake of consolodation of the debate on the issue of Masonic BDSM hazing rituals.

Lux



Originally posted by KSigMason
Posting articles and random pictures doesn't show us that you know anything about Freemasonry.


Well firstly this is simply a statement of arrogance and a statement which is clearly not true. For a person not to know "any-thing" about Masonry, they would have to be totally ignorant about Masonry and have never studied anything at all about the cult.

Further the the articles and pictures were not random; the pictures showed hazing equipment which was used in the Masonic hazing rituals, and I think that the articles would assist a person to have a better understanding of Masonic hazing rituals.


It only shows that you know how to conduct smear campaigns and misconstrue facts.


That is just the kind of simple contradiction which I have come to expect from the Masonic gang members here; an "argument" would offer argument and evidence which would establish "how" I have misconstrued ("misunderstood, misenterpreted") facts about the Masonic hazing rituals.


The various costumes are a part of the ceremony. That's pretty obvious.


Yes and I have shown numerous photos of Masonic fancy dress gear and fetish gear (blindfolds, cable tows, women's dancing costumes for men, etc.) which should assist a greater understanding of Masonry. You don't seem to be very grateful for all the effort I have put in to allow others to have a better understanding of Masonic hazing rituals and pantomime fancy dress costumes.


I have been hazed by any means,


You have been hazed "by any means??" Good grief. Well I suppose it is unsurprising for a US army mercenary who has to go through boot camp. Might I suggest that you check out www.alt.com... which is the world's foremost BDSM contact site, where BDSM masters are always looking for good submissives who are willing to be "hazed by any means."

I have no objection to BDSM submission rituals; I think they encourage the de-christianisation of society and advance sexual revolution and the revolution against religious morality; I merely wish to portray the Masons in a truthful way amidst the cacophony of bizarre conspiracy theories.


and I'm a member of a college fraternity where I went through some 2-months off pledging, but I never was shocked or spanked (someone would have been knocked out for that).


Well if you were "hazed by any means" surely a good spanking and electrocution would be rather tame anyway?


As for the Vaughn article, I'm calling BS on his claims and his "suffering". I think he was just chasing money. If you did research beyond FreemasonryWatch


Well the article I posted was from the "Associated Press;" just because it is hosted on Watchy's site does not establish "guilt by association;" i.e., that Associate Press journalists share Watchy's rather vile Christian religious fanaticsm; I find it quite amusing that the Catholics (such as Watchy) are attacking the Masons; they are both diabolical Christian cults who are competitors in the multi-billion dollar Jesus business as far as I am concerned.


or David Icke's website,


There are over 50,000 members on David Icke's discussion board and it so happens to be one of the numerous discussion boards that I am subscribed to; you will find most of my essays which I have placed on this site, on the David Icke site also. There are numerous regular contributors to that discussion group who are Freemasons (mostly British Freemasons), Communists, Anarchists, Christians, Muslims and who do not agree with David Icke over a variety of issues, but in David's favour, I must say that all opponents seem to be welcome to the debate. I certainly think that Icke's view of the Freemasons, that you are shape shifting reptiles is ridiculous, and I generally always defend the Freemasons in this respect and attempt to portray them as the religious cultists, Capitalist devils and Anglo-American state terrorist, narco-terrorist collaborators that they are. Again you should thank me for this.



you'd see that the jury didn't buy this man's claims:


Well they did not award him any damages for his alleged injuries, and there did not seem anyway to be any medical evidence that he was seriously injured; applying electric shocks to the buttocks does not guarantee medical injuries anyway; however his testimony accords with other testimonials of Masonic hazings which I have presented on the thread On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters. on: www.abovetopsecret.com... however if you wish to drag the discussion over to this thread I am only too happy to repost them here.


Testimony begins in Shriner lawsuit case

Michael G. Vaughn tried to fend off questions from attorney Greg Jenkins about whether his physical and emotional problems existed before he went through the rites in a June 1989 ceremony at the Oleika Shrine Temple.

READ MORE



Jury rejects man's claim the Shriners injured him

After a weeklong trial that shed light on the organization's secret ceremonies, the Fayette County Circuit panel took less than two hours to decide late last week the Shriners owed Michael Vaughn nothing.

READ MORE




Jury rejects suit against Shriners

LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - A man's claim that he was permanently during a secret Shrine temple initiation ceremony in 1989 was rejected by a Fayette Circuit Court jury.

READ MORE


Oh thank you for those links; as it gives some more information which was not available in the Associated Press article. I will repost the links on the Shriners and Jesters thread.

I was unaware that...

A: he went through the hazing rituals with 40 other men.



B: that he was strapped to a table while electric shocks applied to his buttocks to simulate a red hot branding iron....



C: that he and other several other men had to hold hands while walking on an electricrified mat .



I do think it is rather dishonest of you to claim that the images are "random," since the images posted clearly relate to the testimonials of Masonic cultists regarding hazing rituals, and they further relate to the above hyperlinks which you have just posted. Further the defence in that trial did not dispute that such hazing rituals had taken place, but merely that he had suffered no harm. In the judge's closing remarks he stated that the Shriners were a "fun organisation" and I fully agree with him that BDSM submission, domination and humilation can be "fun" for some people; though I rather take it very seriously.

I have of course offered to give Masons submission and humiliation sessions in my private dungeon at prices which are considerably cheaper than the Masonic fees, and I can assure you that the Masonic hazing rituals would pale in comaprison to the extreme humiliation I would put them through. Perhaps you could advertise my services to other Masons and I could reward you with extra virgins in the afterlife.


Also, if these rites were so horrific, why didn't more men step up with him and back him up? Maybe some of the men who went through the ceremony with him?


I have never suggested that the Masonic hazing rites were "horrific;" I have merely suggested that they were rather silly and rather tame; if you want to have a good submissive / slave, their training process has to be far more intense than the silly Masonic hazings.


Well, you "philosophers" can bring it on. I will not bow down to your oppression




Oppression? Have I oppressed you in any way? Oh you poor little army boy. I fully support human sexual freedom; I live in a country where I am surrounded by BDSM clubs and gay saunas, and in fact I have been in that industry myself and have friends who still are; if Masons enjoy being collared (with a cable tow), having to obey a "Master," being sexually humiliated, beaten and electrocuted, that is entirely up to them. I merely wish to present certain truths about the Masons that others may have a better understanding of them and to advance general knowledge of the academic "study of religious cults." Really you should thank me; I find you most ungrateful.

Regards.

His Imperial Majesty
Lucifer
"Advocatus diaboli"


edit on 22-4-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Diabolus fecit, ut id facerem (The devil made me do it).



posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 08:41 PM
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I replied to your absurdities here.



posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
I replied to your absurdities here.


I have replied to your absurdities and false witness here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

His Imperial Majesty

Lucifer.



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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Excellent work here 'Lucifer'.... I know we have our differences at times but your work in exposing the Freemasons has always garnered my respect.

I am rather impressed that the Freemasonry-for-dummies blogspot seems keen to shed the true light of truth, enquiry and exposure on the freemasons and their devious sex snares....

It is encouraging indeed. We might be able to save this planet from the forces of evil after all.
edit on 28-4-2011 by Edelweiss Pirate because: punch you a shun and granma



posted on Apr, 28 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate
We might be able to save this planet from the forces of evil after all.


Don't forget your cape there superman.

Saving the world from the masses of older gentlemen drinking coffee and selling raffle tickets.

your mom must be proud.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 07:20 AM
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reply to post by Edelweiss Pirate
 

Like Chris Hodapp who runs the blog, the majority of Freemasons are not about covering up those who have done horrible things. Every barrel of apples has a few bad ones.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Let the trolling begin.....



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


The problem is with bad apples in a barrel is that they tend to cause all the other apples to rot too.


Anyway, it has been seen that these bad masons are not merely a 'few bad apples'. The most pertinent example is Kenneth Noye, con man, armed robber and murderer who was master of the Hammersmith Lodge in London.

Besides which most of the masonic minions who post on these forum protest total ignorance as to what is really going on in freemasonry, I will assume they are not being duplicitous but are genuinely ignorant, in such a case it must be the 'higher ups' who are carrying out the conspiracy as members on an even footing would be aware of what each other was up to.

Therefore it not a case of a few bad apples in the barrel but a bad Cooper who made the barrel in the first place.



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate
Anyway, it has been seen that these bad masons are not merely a 'few bad apples'. The most pertinent example is Kenneth Noye, con man, armed robber and murderer who was master of the Hammersmith Lodge in London.


So far, that's less than two dozen out of five million. Clearly, the system is broken.

In addition, I've found exactly one source for the claim that Noye was Master of his Lodge, and it's Freemasonry Watch. Do you have another?


Besides which most of the masonic minions who post on these forum protest total ignorance as to what is really going on in freemasonry


Or what's "really going on" in side degrees or obediences they're not part of.


I will assume they are not being duplicitous but are genuinely ignorant, in such a case it must be the 'higher ups' who are carrying out the conspiracy as members on an even footing would be aware of what each other was up to.


This assumes that the actions of these men were ordered by some opaque body of "higher-ups" and not on their own time and money, something that's yet to be established. Otherwise, it's perfectly reasonable to assume a Mason could be hiding a dark private life.

By the same token, it could be argued that the Jester in question was "higher up" than his wife in their marriage because she was unaware until he told her that he was arranging prostitutes for Jester acitivities.
edit on 29-4-2011 by OnTheLevel213 because: added a point



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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Hello OP. I admittedly didn't have time right now to read through all of your thread but I will. I just wanted to say that my grandfather was a shriner and you would be hard pressed to find a more caring and giving man. He was a veteran of the US Navy in WWII and then went on to become an immigration lawyer where he fought for the rights of LEGAL immigrants trying to become citizens in this country because he believed we were a country founded by immigrants.

After he retired from law, he spent his time driving a van from his home in Omaha, taking very sick children and their families to the Shriner's hospital in Minneapolis for free medical care until he was no longer able to drive. He did this every few weeks for years.

So I hope that whether the organization has some bad apples, people realize many more were not. He and all his shriner compatriots were some of the nicest most well meaning individuals I have ever met.
edit on 29-4-2011 by Redwookieaz because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Perhaps they do all the things you mentioned, but then when they gang bang hookers and rape children in care homes it kind of negates all the apparently 'charidable' things they do.

Eh?



posted on Apr, 29 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by Edelweiss Pirate
 

Freemasonry has a system in place though to expel members who are caught committing crimes. I've seen as the President of the Board of Directors, a Past Master, and at the time Commander of the Masonic Templars in my town get expelled for misuse of funds.

You say we "minions" don't know what the higher ups are doing and also cite an example of a bad apple as someone who has served as a Worshipful Master. If being Worshipful Master is entry into higher then several of us here hold that title.

Please describe to me what is higher up and what is minion? How are we structured in your mind?

So your saying the organization itself is bad? What ideals and beliefs of Freemasonry are bad? Is truth, fidelity, charity, prudence, just, and tolerant a bad thing now?


Therefore it not a case of a few bad apples in the barrel but a bad Cooper who made the barrel in the first place.

reply to post by Edelweiss Pirate
 

You're trying to say what a small group of rogue members did as if it is a mainstream problem, which it is not.



posted on Apr, 30 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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The Secrets of Freemasonry and Demystification.

In the modern academic field of the "Study of Religion," a general phenomenon which I have observed is that both students and academics tend to become rather "anti-religious," and I think this is quite a natural process, since as Martin Luther observed, "reason is the enemy of faith," and once one subjects the organised religions of the world to human reason, they generally come to be viewed as rather ridiculous and an insult to human reason.

Commonly, for example, a hypnotised and indoctrinated Christian will have no problem with applying human reason when it comes to ridiculing other faiths and may ridicule the Islamic offer of 72 virgins in the afterlife, or the ridiculous myths and miracles attributed to Hanunam (the Hindu monkey god) or Ganesha (the Hindu elephant god, and yet due to the process of religious hypnosis and indoctrination they are able to supend human reason and critical thinking when it comes to the myths and miracles of their own faith, and may consider it to be perfectly normal to believe the their god (Jesus) impregnated his mother in order to give birth to himself and that he and a group of first century religious fanatics could miraculously cure leprosy and blindness and raise the dead.

Similarly with Freemasonry; while non Freemasons may consider laughable, the holy and sacred Hula Hula Bull Dance, or the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals, or Masonic recruits being stripped, blindfolded and having to simulate oral sex with a sausage while being jabbed in their ass with a sharp object (as has been alleged on: www.withoneaccord.org... ), it does seem to be the case that Masons take their rituals rather seriously and consider them to be somewhat holy and sacred.

The "secrets" of Masonry.

The WWW and the bookshops of Capitalism are littered with essays and books on the "secrets" of Masonry, and such studies are important in contributing to the demystification of Masonry, though many such titles are speculative and ahistorical. There are numerous bizarre accusations regarding the Freemasons which include accusing them of "Satanism" and "human sacrifice," however it seems to me that the "secrets" of Masonic ritualism are far more mundane, and that the application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals and other rather silly hazing rituals are hardly "Satanic."

It would seem entirely natural that Masons would wish to keep such sacred and holy rituals "secret," if only to hide their embarrassment from non Masons and also to keep the element of surprise alive for Masonic initiates.

From a "rational" persepctive virtually all forms of religious ritual would appear to be bizarre and even silly. Having observed numerous Hindu and Christian rituals it seems to me bizarre that adults would worhip what is often essentially just an elaborately dressed plastic or wooden doll or a lingam (a phallic shaped stone which usually represents Shiva) or a statue of the "Blessed Virgin," however these are religions which are taken seriously by hundreds of millions of people.

Ultimately the sacred and holy Masonic rituals such as the "Hula Hula Bull Dance" or the "Golden Shower simulation (using a plastic penis and water)" may be considered as ridiculous as any other religious ritual, however such rituals are generally not considered ridiculous by the religious fanatic themselves, who are often willing to pay to be included in such rituals; this is simply all part of the memetic virus that is religion.

Lux

edit on 30-4-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting



posted on May, 2 2011 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
Lucifer, I recognise and respect the effort you put into your posts but I don't think you've achieved what you intended to do. I think you wanted to show the world how evil and corrupt the freemasons are, ...


Personally I think that their silly rituals are simply ridiculous; however to be frank I would say the same about almost all religious rituals. I find it amazing that grown adults can take the variety of the silly religious rituals of the world's religions seriously, however unfortunately they do and are even willing to pay money for such cult initiations.

To a non Christian, seeing a priest prostrate themselves to a toy statue of the Blessed Virgin in some silly ceremonial fancy dress costume may seem as ridiculous as it is to the Christian who observes a Hindu worshipping some doll of a different deity; just as the Mason may take his rituals very seriously, whereas the non Mason may never fully understand the sacredness of enduring the holy ritual application of whipped cream and strawberries to the genitals and the application of electric shocks to the genitals, posterior and feet.



The Mystic Shrine Ritual
.
Another "high point" consisted of having to get down on all fours (still blindfolded) and
try to suck on a hot dog which was dangling somewhere in the general vicinity of my
face. As I was attempting to do this, I was being poked in my rear with what felt like a
pretty serious hat-pin. Additionally, I was led to believe I was being urinated on by a dog
in the face. www.withoneaccord.org... [/URL]



In the interests of the academic study of religion, it is important to attempt to accurately "describe" the various rituals of a religion. There are numerous anti-Masons who portray the Masons as "shape shifting reptiles," "baby eaters," "human sacrifice cultists," and numerous other bizarre conspiracy theories, for which there would appear to be absolutely no evidence. I have went to a great deal of trouble to attempt to implant in the minds of non Masons a truer image of a Mason being stripped, blindfolded, and having to simulate oral sex on all fours by sucking on a hot dog while being jabbed with a sharp object in their posterior. I think that such a mental image of a Freemason is helfpul in assisting non Masons to have a better understanding of Masonry, and frankly I find the attitude of Masons on this forum to be most ungrateful. Really they should thank me for attempting to portray Masonry in a descriptive rather than fraudulent manner.

Lux

I thought I would take this opportunity to remind all Freemasons of my special Mayday offer of Masonic hazings, beatings and humiliations at low, low prices; I guarantee to undercut the price of Masonic lodge fees; with the additional bonus of "real dogs" not just sumulated doggie sex.


edit on 2-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 06:05 AM
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I'v seen you talk about some of there alleged rituals.....





Such as spanking, electrodes to the buttocks, fake golden shower, do you have any more proof that this did or does go on in the lodges of masonry?



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by King Seesar



I'v seen you talk about some of there alleged rituals.....





Such as spanking, electrodes to the buttocks, fake golden shower, do you have any more proof that this did or does go on in the lodges of masonry?




There are numerous posts on this thread which contain testimonials and evidence that such matters happen in Masonic Lodges. The allegations on this thread refer to 1:Shriner Masonry, 2: Jester Masonry, 3: Prince Hall Masonry and 4: York Rite Masonry, all of which are Masonic institutions and institutions whose cultists are exclusively Masonic. "Some" of the Masons here have tried to distance themselves from Shriner Masonry, however Shriner Masonry "is" a Masonic side degree and they refer to their Masonic Lodges as Masonic Lodges, such as: "Oasis Shriner's Masonic Lodge ( events.charlotteobserver.com... ) for example.

I think that there is more than adequate evidence in this thread to etablish that the claim that such rituals do not happen in Masonic Lodges is clearly a fraudulent claim.

It seems to me that it may be the Masonic attempt to hide such silly and ridiculous hazing rituals and their prostitute and stripper parites which has led to so numerous speculative conspiracy theories about what they reallyt get up to.

Virtually "all" religious rituals when subjected to the analysis of human reason appear to be silly and ridiculous anyway; similarly with the behaviour of numerous American college fraternites and sororities; however I should point out that there is nothing "illegal" or even surprising about adult males engaged in homo-erotic BDSM rituals nor about adult males having prostitute and stripper parties; nor is there anything unusual in religious cultists taking the most ridiculous religious rituals rather seriously; when a Christian priest takes his cannibal rituals seriously, such as the alleged transubstantiation of the bread and wine to the body and blood of Christ; it can seem incredible to those who are unnafected by cult hypnosis and indoctrination that a grown adult could believe in such nonsense and take it seriously; similarly with the sacred and holy ritual application of ice cream and strawberries to the genitals in Masonry; most people would find this to be ridiculous, but the Masons seem to believe that this process creates a "good Mason; (i.e., a good gang member);" indeed almost all large organised Capitalist gangs have some form of hazing initiations; similarly during the intiation of Hell's Angel it is apparently commonplace to urinate on the intitiate and beat him.

Consider:


The initiation ceremony of an (Hell's) Angel centers on the defiling of his new uniform and emblem. "A bucket of dung and urine will be collected during the meeting, then poured on the newcomer's head in a solemn baptismal." They never wash their soiled colors. They mock the courtly love of Prince Charming with gang love. Instead of the gentlemanly duel they subscribe to the principle of All on One. They don't seek justice in dispensing punishment. Rather, the response is always one of total retaliation. "If a man gets wise, mash his face. If a woman snubs you, rape her. This is the thinking, if not the reality, behind the whole Angel's act."

www.nytimes.com...



and:





Skull and Bones


The Weird-Ass Initiation:

Shout OOGA BOOGA! and LICK MY BUMHOLE! at new initiates.

Three years before the historic presidential campaign between two Bonesmen (George W Bush and John Kerry), a group of journalists secretly filmed and recorded the Skull and Bones initiation of new members. What they found was so laughably juvenile that they spent their evening quivering in silent laughter and holding their crotches so as not to pee themselves. It was that bad.

There were two sessions of covert recording, actually. One in 2000 and another in 2001. The one in 2000 was just audio and it left the journalist admitting he was "embarrassed for the Skull and Bones" after he heard it. Probably because new initiates were ordered to fetch bones and yell "OOGA BOOGA!"

In 2001, the journalists actually videotaped the ceremony. This time they witnessed a guy wearing a George Bush mask, affecting a Texas drawl and yelling, "I'm going to ream you like I reamed Al Gore!" and "Lick my bumhole, neophyte!" It was at that point that the laughter probably turned to horrified gasps as the journalists suddenly realized that these one of these masked faces could very well be president someday.

www.cracked.com...



I find it quite unsurprising that the Skull and Bones college fraternity is incredibly silly; similarly with many of tjhe Masonic hazing rituals and I think that if the absolute stupidity of such rituals was better known that it would lead to a better understanding of Masonry in general. Essentially the "Study of Religion" is anyway little more than the study of human stupidity

While we are on the subject of hazing rituals, I would just like to add Thelonious' comments from the "secret societies" subforum of the David Icke forum.




Hazing is quite common in Shrine initiations. The Shrine initiation is, in fact, little more than a grown-up version of the drunken frat boy scenario........

.....hazing is what the Shrine initiation is all about. Of course, everybody knows this beforehand, and they go into it with good humor. I became a Shriner about 20 years ago. I thought at the time that the initiation was pretty childish and lame, and I saw nothing in it of interest, so I never returned. Of course, there's nothing wrong per se with being childish and lame, it just wasn't my particular thing.

forum.davidicke.com...



Whoring, hazing and "golden shower" initiations are not exlusive to Masonry, it is just that they are not so open about it as the Hell's Angels and this leads to a sense of mystery.

A problem with Masonry is not that it is "too Satanic;" on the contrary it is that is far too godly, and godists (theists) always seem to do incredibly bizarre things and have bizarre beliefs and rituals; Masonry is simply not Satanic enough to be given my imperial approval.



And of course with regards to subjecting Muslims to such hazing and torture rituals (as is commonplace in Iraq) and to homo-erotic sexual abuse, although this does not meet with my approval (as we Communists need to have a higher moral standard than the US Imperialist, state terrorist, narco-terrorists), the only positive aspect of this that I can think of is that it will enourage militant and widespread hatred and resistance to US imperialism.



His Imperial Satanic Majesty
Lucifer



edit on 3-5-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Less diabolical



posted on May, 3 2011 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 


Look i believe in god but i have no problem if you wanna do this stuff on your own time in private by all means have fun, but to do it as a ritual seems ridicules if there own mantle is to "make good men better" how does shocking ones parts have to do with making good men better does this some how bond them closer to together lol???



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