Challenge to Christians: Prove the Bible is True

Originally posted by fordrew
the bible was inspired by god. God pretty much wrote the bible. You can't get any more evidence than that. How about YOU prove the bible is false???

edit on 17-2-2011 by fordrew because: (no reason given)

Without having read further than this, I just wanted to point something out: your logic is circular. How do you know the bible is truthful? God wrote it. How do you know God exists? Bible said so. Do you see how that system of thought does not hold?

lol what a subject

Clearly you will not get a straight answer from a believer....when you have been indoctrinated from such a young age they are bound to accept this book as factual.

Theres a website and ongoing debate about why " god wont heal amputees "......never happened EVER in history despite the lords awsome powers...and his compassion...wonder why??

Its a fairytale which i will never take as fact or truth....its the biggest scam in history.

reply to post by hypervalentiodine

Old Testament Scriptures That Describe The Coming Messiah

The Messianic Prophecy (paraphrased) /Where the prophecy appears in the Old Testament (written between 1450 BC and 430BC)/Jesus’ fulfillment of the prophecy in the New Testament (written between 45 and 95 AD)

The Messiah will be the offspring (descendant) of the woman (Eve) Genesis 3:15 Galatians 4:4
The Messiah will be a descendant of Abraham, through whom everyone on earth will be blessed Genesis 12:3; 18:18 Acts 3:25,26
The Messiah will be a descendant of Judah Genesis 49:10 Matthew 1:2 and Luke 3:33
The Messiah will be a prophet like Moses Deuteronomy 18:15-19 Acts 3:22,23
The Messiah will be the Son of God Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:17; Mark 1:11; Luke 3:22
The Messiah will be raised from the dead (resurrected) Psalm 16:10,11 Matthew 28:5-9; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:4-7; John 20:11-16; Acts 1:3 and 2:32
The Messiah crucifixion experience Psalm 22 (contains 11 prophecies—not all listed here) Matthew 27:34-50 and John 19:17-30
The Messiah will be sneered at and mocked Psalm 22:7 Luke 23:11,35-39
The Messiah will be pierced through hands and feet Psalm 22:16 Luke 23:33 and 24:36-39;
John 19:18 and 20:19-20,24-27
The Messiah’s bones will not be broken (a person’s legs were usually broken after being crucified to speed up their death) Psalm 22:17 and 34:20 John 19:31-33,36
Men Will Gamble for the Messiah’s clothing Psalm 22:18 Matthew 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:23,24
The Messiah will accused by false witnesses Psalm 35:11 Matthew 26:59,60 and Mark 14:56,57
The Messiah will be hated without a cause Psalm 35:19 and 69:4 John 15:23-25
The Messiah will be betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9 John 13:18,21
The Messiah will ascend to heaven (at the right hand of God) Psalm 68:18 Luke 24:51; Acts 1:9; 2:33-35; 3:20-21; 5:31,32; 7:55-56; Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20,21; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:3; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; 1 Pet 3:22 . . . sorry, we got carried away!
The Messiah will be given vinegar and gall to drink Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34; Mark 15:23; John 19:29,30
Great kings will pay homage and tribute to the Messiah Psalm 72:10,11 Matthew 2:1-11
The Messiah is a “stone the builders rejected” who will become the “head cornerstone” Psalm 118:22,23 and Isaiah 28:16 Matthew 21:42,43; Acts 4:11; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:6-8
The Messiah will be a descendant of David Psalm 132:11 and Jeremiah 23:5,6; 33:15,16 Luke 1:32,33
The Messiah will be a born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:18-25 and Luke 1:26-35
The Messiah’s first spiritual work will be in Galilee Isaiah 9:1-7 Matthew 4:12-16
The Messiah will make the blind see, the deaf hear, etc. Isaiah 35:5-6 Many places. Also see Matthew 11:3-6 and John 11:47
The Messiah will be beaten, mocked, and spat upon Isaiah 50:6 Matthew 26:67 and 27:26-31
The “Gospel according to Isaiah” Isaiah 52:13-53:12 Matthew, Mark, Luke, John
People will hear and not believe the “arm of the LORD” (Messiah) Isaiah 53:1 John 12:37,38
The Messiah will be rejected Isaiah 53:3 Matthew 27:20-25; Mark 15:8-14; Luke 23:18-23; John 19:14,15
The Messiah will be killed Isaiah 53:5-9 Matthew 27:50; Mark 15:37-39; Luke 23:46; John 19:30
The Messiah will be silent in front of his accusers Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 26:62,63 and 27:12-14
The Messiah will be buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:59,60; Mark 15:46; Luke 23:52,53; John 19:38-42
The Messiah will be crucified with criminals Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:32,33
The Messiah is part of the new and everlasting covenant Isaiah 55:3-4 and Jeremiah 31:31-34 Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; Hebrews 8:6-13
The Messiah will be our intercessor (intervene for us and plead on our behalf) Isaiah 59:16 Hebrews 9:15
The Messiah has two missions Isaiah 61:1-3 (first mission ends at “. . . year of the LORD’s favor”) First mission: Luke 4:16-21; Second mission: to be fulfilled at the end of the world
The Messiah will come at a specific time Daniel 9:25-26 Galatians 4:4 and Ephesians 1:10
The Messiah will be born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1 and Luke 2:4-7
The Messiah will enter Jerusalem riding a donkey Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21:1-11
The Messiah will be sold for 30 pieces of silver Zechariah 11:12,13 Matthew 26:15 with Matthew 27:3-10
The Messiah will forsaken by His disciples Zechariah 13:7 Matthew 26:31,56
The Messiah will enter the Temple with authority Malachi 3:1 Matthew 21:12 and Luke 19:45

Messianic Prohecies


This is just the tip of the iceberg right here.

Yahushua is the Messiah and the Creator gave us His word. You can't blame all who have put their trust in Him for horrible things done in the name of God. The Catholic Church will pay for that. The people will pay for that. I notice a lot of people bring these type of points up, and yet I don't agree with the prevailing power at those times such as the Inquisition or Salem. The church was in it for power. That doesn't mean the Scriptures condoned their actions. So yes people make mistakes (much like denying the power of Yahushua and the Creator, Yah, but they can still come and be forgiven. The time is short. Oh so short.

well, I can state that I am one of the believers of God. Yet I as a christian do question some of the Bible due to the fact it ws writen by man.. See, most Christians will not question the book, people who taught them.. But in my eyes, I need full understanding.. So yes, I do believe in God, Yes I question the book everyday due to the fact it was wrote by man.. It is not my job as a Christian to make anyone believe, because I am questioning the same things some of you all are..

Like Praying...

I as a christian pray to give thanks.. Never ask for anything (anymore).. If it God's will, why ask.. Do you want him to change his will for you???

Just an example...

What happens is this..when you attack a person's belief system, you basically a stripping away all that they hold dear and the hope of an afterlife.
I don't have a religion.. and no I am not atheist. I have a Bible in my car and every room in the house. Just because I do not take every word of the Bible as the spoken word of God doesnot mean I do not read the Bible for inspiration. There are so many good things in it as well as bad. I can not pick a church because there is not one that would tolerate the way I believe.
I gave up on that when a Pastor turned almost purple in the face when I told him I could not take every word as literal. Shoot!!! He scared me!!! My children and my husband too.
The Bible also inspired me further to investigate other belief systems. These also have some very good advice as well as very bad.
I can read the Bible and not worry about what I read..and neither do I overlook something that doesnot sound like God and just turn a blind side to it. I take it as a learning experience in human development. And I think that is the reason the contradictory stuff is in there.

Conceived by a virgin mother named Meri, and had a stepfather named Seb (Joseph)
Was born in a cave, his birth announced by an angel, heralded by a star and attended by shepherds
Attended a special rite of passage at the age of twelve and there is no data on the child

from the age of 12 to 30
Was baptized in a river at the age of 30, and his baptizer was later beheaded
Had 12 disciples
Performed miracles, exorcized demons, raised someone from the dead, walked on water
Was called “Iusa”, the "ever-becoming son" and the "Holy Child"
Delivered a "Sermon on the Mount", and his followers recounted his sayings
Was transfigured on the Mount
Was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and was resurrected
Called “Way”, “the Truth the Light”, “Messiah”, “God's Anointed Son”, “Son of Man”, “Good Shepherd”, “Lamb of God”, “Word made flesh”, “Word of Truth”, "the KRST" or "Anointed One”

Was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish, Lamb and Lion.
Came to fulfill the Law, and was supposed to reign one thousand years

the bible is a plagiarized story stolen from the Egyptians

no this isn't the story of Jesus it is the story of Horus, he was an Egyptian god who was worshiped thousands of years before the time of Christ

reply to post by christina-66


Belief or Non belief in the Bible as true depends on a persons faith.

I myself do NOT believe it is true, for it is a collection of stories, describing certain events from way back when. Certain people "decided" what went in the Bible and what did not.

In my opinion, the Bible is nothing more than a book designed to control a mass amount of people with fear.

Jesus was a Pagan. He preached among his people, not from a building. He studied ALL religions of that period, and felt that in his "religion" women were more important than men. Because women could create life. (ie: the cup of the covenant).

BUT no matter what, NO ONE can prove it to be true or false, unless we finally build that time machine.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by madscientistintraining

 

I just want one christian to come forward with just one persuasive argument. They can't use the Bible on me - I know the why's and whens of its origins. Qhestion is, do they> I think not.

A straight up challenge.

Convert me.

Maybe instead of calling on mere humans to provide proof and truth to you, why not just ask God? I know for myself that I questioned the validity of the bible and the Christian faith. I did lots of research and talked to endless people. Everyone had their own version of "proof" and everyone has their own perceptions and reality. Because the bible (I believe) is inspired by God, He will reveal what He wants to reveal to you (through His word) when you need it and as it pertains to certain circumstances and times in your own personal journey through life.

Faith isn't something anyone can really explain through logic or reason - it is a spiritual question. I got to a point in my life where I was frustrated with all the information and it is endless. I finally just asked God himself to reveal truth to me and that's when I finally began to understand...not with my head, but with my heart/spirit.

No one can truly "convert" you, only the spirit of God can do that. And, the spirit of God will speak to you when you are open to hear, receive and believe in Him...imho.

reply to post by flyingviolet


I think you said it best. The Bible can be frustrating ...if you let it do so. All of us wrestle with our ourselves.. And are fighting it...
I understand where many on here are coming from...both the pro and the cons.
You feel that God is a personal God and if He has anything to say to you he will speak to you face to face. Right? Not from a Minister, not from a book, not indirectly from a friend.. not anything indirectly. he has already..Look around you.Your family, the Earth, the Universe. So much that says..here I AM.
You just have to listen a different way.

People cramming FAITH BASED RELIGION down the throats of other people.
The No.1 best seller....not untill the Gideons put it into print.
The Rapture though not a word in the bible and man made event didnt get preached to the flock untill 1833 when William Miller preached that the Second Advent would happen in 1843. Known as the Millerites there have been flocks abroad waiting with every shakey story out of the middle east. Does Hal Lindsey come to mind? I have to wonder how much money that guy has made since the 1970's starting with the book "the late great planet earth".

How much money did Harold Camping make from his book "1994" now he has a new audience and a new date May 21st 2011. How many of you have heard this new date? How many of you believed it when you heard it? How many of you believe it or subscribe to the idea after seeing the termoil of the middle east now playing out ?

Do your own research to prove or not prove the Bible. Do it though, not to prove or disprove, but to do an objective research, not a subjective research. Sudy the ancient sumerian text. See the parallels or Jacob and the 12 sons and the sumerian gods. Study about Constantine and the Counsel of Nicea. Discover that the books of the Holy Scriptures changed after his death.

Study the similarities between Jesus and Mithras. Yep the Apostile Paul knew he needed integrate Christianity with the Paganism of Rome to keep the religion alive. Yep Paul is responsible for the Christian Religion not Jesus.

One only has to look back to King Henry the 8th to see what influence Leaders and Rulers have over laws and scriptures of Common Religion.

I wont go into the Tel-Aviv University Archeologist who was granted permittion to dig into the second temple The temple of Soloman......what he found is that there was no connection to Soloman and David. Further he speculated that the Judeo Based religion is fabricated further he expressed that The Jews have no more right to the Land of Israel that anybody else. Be it as you may Israel is now a nation since 1948.

Do your research and your math and then tell me all about how true the bible is. Faith Based Religion is just that. You are free to believe what you want. Just dont start calling it truth because you were not there, I was not there. Just the people writing the books were there right? Wrong!

reply to post by mikeybiznaz


I can see the hate mail coming, so let it fly.

reply to post by malcr


I don't bash people's faith because they might not be all that crazy after all, I mean, a lot of people believe in much crazier things than that on here. That's why I'm not an atheist but rather agnostic. Science only rules out things when proven false, and science also recognizes that everything might be false because of our human perspective.

I do believe we are part of something greater, consciousness itself is something pretty magical... all of this around us isn't there for no reason at all, there has to be a reason for it all or else it would be quite a waste of energy for who-ever or what-ever was behind it, no pun intended.

Of course the thread title poses an impossible challenge, but the three further questions in the op;

1. Jesus is the Messiah craved by the Hebrews as recognised by Christians
2. The first five books of the OT are not simply a means of giving a disparate and genetically diverse people a unifying sense of identity.
3. That the Bible is the word of God.

Are more easily tacked, be it to prove them - or to disprove.

In regard to the first question on that list - there is no reliable archaelogical evidence outside the NT itself that the Jesus depicted within its pages existed.

Re the second on that list I would refer to this book by David Sperling which identifies the many inaccuracies in the OT which are proveable (including the existence of Israelites at the time the OT claims to be written)

And in respect of the third question, as has been pointed out on this thread already the 'authorised' version of the Bible is done so by King James - no saint I can assure you. Anything deemed dangerous insofar as it encouraged independence of mind was not permitted to be included in the NT - and that includes many of the Gnostic writings. (Although Revelation, the Book of James and the Gospel of John are Gnostic in origin).

The edits were carried out by men - not by the God whose word they were supposed to fear messing with. It didn't stop them nevertheless.

Further - even the ten commandments were rephrased to suit the political tone of the times. 'Thou shalt not kill' being adapted to 'Thou shalt not murder'.

Of course it can't be proven. At least in the context you phrase it. For example; not in the way that the first portion of the movie Zeitgeist can be proven to be--at best--a ridiculous & un-scholarly work and at worst an outright & malicious soul-stealing lie. See the thread "Zeitgeist Totally Refuted" for more on that.

Further, even from a secular standpoint, it's no more ridiculous for a Christian to believe a book that claims (and proves itself to me) that...

...the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. (Heb. 4:12)

…than it is for some wonky new age drivel that's a syncretic mix of various eastern philosophies & feel good philosophy. Kind of like the Chakra & Kundalini or the Universal Consciousness claims. Or the unfortunate "We are all God" theory.

These and various other differing viewpoints have their heartfelt proponents, but are impervious to the proofs of--us--mere mortals. Our personal 'truth' is experiential.

The Bible, imo, can be proven but only to ones-self. You should know that. And you probably do, but your purpose here seems more of a bait than anything else. I think probably, in part, because the religio portion of Zeitgeist was thoroughly debunked (See Above.)

I've been on both sides of the fence, but I finally found the Word, for me, to be "living and active" and "sharper than any double-edged sword."

You can believe anything you want…and you do. No skin off my nose ultimately…other than some compassion for a selfish world gone crazy and in the grip of the ultimate conspiracy. One devised by the father of lies.

But I'm sure that we can agree to disagree. ATS is a place we can all come together, and most times, tolerate each other with love.

reply to post by The GUT

The Bible, imo, can be proven but only to ones-self. You should know that. And you probably do, but your purpose here seems more of a bait than anything else. I think probably, in part, because the religio portion of Zeitgeist was thoroughly debunked (See Above.)

I appreciate your comments and you will see from my post directly preceding your own that I do fully recognise the impossibility of fulfilling the challenge. My aim however, is not to 'bait' but rather to DEBATE.

Re Zeitgeist, I care nothing about it. It's thought provoking at least - as is the Bible. The Bible however cannot be used to prove itself....and over the passage of time has been supported by little to no archaeological evidence to support its claims.

I have been alarmed throughout my lifetime (and throughout history) at the debauchery and sometimes outright evil (subjective term I know) comitted in the name of the Bible and the purported Word of God.

I think the Bible is a clever compilation of equally clever writings. The OT perspective is God fearing and is directly contradicted by the God loving teachings of the NT - save Revelation. But this is the clever work of man - not God created as a means of control and manipulation of the masses.

I am a Celt - we have our own indiginous origin myths (including one creator) as do peoples in all parts of the world. Why should the origin myth of one far away people be deemed superior to all others?

Originally posted by christina-66
I am a Celt - we have our own indiginous origin myths (including one creator) as do peoples in all parts of the world. Why should the origin myth of one far away people be deemed superior to all others?

It's NOT. Every tribe of man has their own myth which contains the ideas of creation along with the moral foundation of that tribe. They are all inspired by God, and are all equally valid.

As we learn more about our existence we will formulate new and improved creation myths. These too will be valid for a time.

With Love,

Your Brother

I have been alarmed throughout my lifetime (and throughout history) at the debauchery and sometimes outright evil (subjective term I know) comitted in the name of the Bible and the purported Word of God.

So have I!! How DARE they?! But this is certainly the weakest of your claims. I've seen your excellent intellect on these boards and I feel that you can do better than that one.

Surely you know that crimes of evil have always been fallaciously committed in the name of God and pretty much every religion or socio-political system extant (Just look what has happened in the name of Socialism.)

The folk I perceive as Christian are abhorred by any such behavior and it's these folk that have given me the best examples of love and true compassion that I've personally seen & experienced on this earth.

I think the Bible is a clever compilation of equally clever writings. The OT perspective is God fearing and is directly contradicted by the God loving teachings of the NT - save Revelation. But this is the clever work of man - not God created as a means of control and manipulation of the masses.

My perception is that it's FAR too clever to have been concocted by man. I know many beg to differ, but none of the ancient-- or modern --writings have captured and tamed my heart/mind like the Holy Bible. For me it's that supernatural "living and active, sharper than a two-edged sword" thing again.

Get into the Word deep enough and strange, wonderful, & inexplicable things start to happen. The word is ALIVE! Blew my mind anyway.

The seeming difference in the God of the OT and the God of the NT was difficult for me at one time as well, but I think it becomes very understandable for anyone who finds themselves strongly attracted to the Word. It's said that nothing worth having comes easy and I totally believe that.

I am a Celt - we have our own indiginous origin myths (including one creator) as do peoples in all parts of the world. Why should the origin myth of one far away people be deemed superior to all others?

Well, I love me some Celt women. Especially those with impressive intellects, although these days I keep it brotherly.

And your question is certainly valid. Part of my answer is that I personally don't feel superior in my beliefs...just convinced that there is one God and he truly did give us his living Word.

Peace & Respect Earth-Sister!

For those looking for the proof that God exists, here it is:

Proof of God

Posted it in a off topic forum by mistake, so it won't show up on the hit list.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Slipdig1



The problem though is the Bible IS NOT a history book... It never was and never will be.

reply to post by hypervalentiodine


You can't prove that the bible is false - instead you attack my statement. Pathetic.