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Documented, Wisconsin's Debt. Result Of Corporate Tax Breaks, Not Unions!

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posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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I don't know if my source is considered to be credible here on ATS, so I'm posting this article from "The Capitol Times" here in the political madness forum, just to be safe.

I was watching the Ed Show last night and I noticed a piece regarding a report that Wisconsin was actually in pretty good fiscal shape prior to governor Walker's appearance on the scene. This was primarily due to actions taken by their legislature over the past two years during the economic downturn. According to the report, after governor Walker got elected the republican controlled legislature has given away some 140 million in special interest spending, resulting in their current projected shortfall.

Apparently, the unions had nothing to do with their actual budget overruns and it's becoming more and more apparent that this is nothing more than a direct attack on organized labor, not just in Wisconsin but across this nation.

This morning, I found this article from Cap Times that was discussing this very subject so I thought I would post it and get your feelings.

host.madison.com...

The article includes a link to Wisconsin's Legislative Fiscal Bureau which pretty much documents the claims made in the report. Anyway, I thought it was a pretty convincing read and I hope it opens some people"s minds as to what is actually going on in Wisconsin.

This is what the republican party has planned for the rest of working America if we sit back and allow them to do it. Wake up America, these republicans and their corporate sponsors are out to totally destroy your standard of living and they have chosen Wisconsin as the site for their first salvo of attacks.
edit on 17-2-2011 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2011 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



+1 more 
posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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What's at work here, and what this article is pointing out, is that there is demonization propaganda against the unions in this country, as there has been since Reagan busted the first unions in preparation for the systematic dismantling of this country, and particularly the middle class. They will blame the unions for, set them up, and accuse them of all sorts of things because the unions stand in their way. Plain and simple.

Of course the debt is a result of tax breaks. It's also exacerbated by the eroding tax base that is a direct result of these same corporations and governments shipping our work offshore, lowering wages for the remaining jobs, allowing the importation and illegal immigration of foreign workers who either pay little or no taxes, giving huge tax shelters and loopholes to both the corporations and the rich, and allowing the rich to stash their money in offshore bank accounts to avoid paying,

No workers, no taxes to pay for things. Who couldn't have predicted this? If they couldn't, then why are they running our businesses and our country? If they could, ask yourself why they let it happen.

So sure. Blame the unions now. And when all the unions are gone, ask yourself who their going to blame next.
edit on 2/17/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Yes I agree with you completely. This particular tactic currently being utilized in Wisconsin is actually a "two-for" in that the republicans are rewarding themselves with tax breaks and then utilizing the resulting deficit as a tool to break the unions.

And to think that the American worker should be deprived of his/her right to fair representation when negotiating with such devious minds.

These corporations, the very same ones that can now contribute unlimited cash into political campaigns, are making their move against the American worker and all I can say is, we better stand up now or forever hold our piece.

By the way, why the hell is Obama holding back on this issue? I think he could be making the biggest mistake of his political career. He should be standing up for the truth.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 


I’m not familiar with what is going on in Wisconsin but I’ve seen enough of what is going on in other parts of the country and world to recognize a massive trend and this seems to fit it. The multi-national corporations are getting breaks one way or another and they are corrupting all the viable candidates that have any access to the Mass Media so that we get to chose between corporate candidates A or B. either way they win and we are left with the flimsy illusion of democracy.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by ~Lucidity
What's at work here, and what this article is pointing out, is that there is demonization propaganda against the unions in this country, as there has been since Reagan busted the first unions in preparation for the systematic dismantling of this country, and particularly the middle class. They will blame the unions for, set them up, and accuse them of all sorts of things because the unions stand in their way. Plain and simple.

Of course the debt is a result of tax breaks. It's also exacerbated by the eroding tax base that is a direct result of these same corporations and governments shipping our work offshore, lowering wages for the remaining jobs, allowing the importation and illegal immigration of foreign workers who either pay little or no taxes, giving huge tax shelters and loopholes to both the corporations and the rich, and allowing the rich to stash their money in offshore bank accounts to avoid paying,

No workers, no taxes to pay for things. Who couldn't have predicted this? If they couldn't, then why are they running our businesses and our country? If they could, ask yourself why they let it happen.

So sure. Blame the unions now. And when all the unions are gone, ask yourself who their going to blame next.
edit on 2/17/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)


Why has the work been offshored? Because we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Yes I agree with you completely. This particular tactic currently being utilized in Wisconsin is actually a "two-for" in that the republicans are rewarding themselves with tax breaks and then utilizing the resulting deficit as a tool to break the unions.

And to think that the American worker should be deprived of his/her right to fair representation when negotiating with such devious minds.

These corporations, the very same ones that can now contribute unlimited cash into political campaigns, are making their move against the American worker and all I can say is, we better stand up now or forever hold our piece.

By the way, why the hell is Obama holding back on this issue? I think he could be making the biggest mistake of his political career. He should be standing up for the truth.


Fair representation huh. I worked at a place where most were union. I was in IT and we were not. We could bargain for our own salaries meanwhile a guy sweeping the floor made the same wage as electricians/HVAC/techs etc etc. They cried for a union and now cry they aren't being treated fairly and meanwhile pay the thugs in control every month. To each their own I guess. I will negotiate my own salary and benefits thank you.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 

So? Ask yourself why we haven't worked on that rate then. How is this the people's fault? You know there is far more to it than this.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 





Yeah, I know what you mean. Just check out how much these corporations paid in taxes;
thinkprogress.org...
abcnews.go.com...
www.reuters.com...
dealbook.nytimes.com...
www.cbsnews.com...
money.cnn.com...
www.desmoinesregister.com...

Or maybe I should ask, "Which of these corporations pay too much in taxes?"
edit on 2/17/2011 by maria_stardust because: Removed nested quote and replaced with "reply to" tag.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 

So? Ask yourself why we haven't worked on that rate then. How is this the people's fault? You know there is far more to it than this.


Ask the tools in DC. I myslef think there should be zero corp income tax which would spur business. Of course I'm an evil capitalist. I'm not blaming the people for the corporate tax rate.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 





Exactly they shift their operations overseas etc to not pay the tax. The ones that do are "suckers". Why not just say you pay no corp tax, they save all the money paying lawyers and accountants and whatever or govt subsidies to try and keep em here to avoid the tax they don't pay and they can keep their business in the US?
edit on 2/17/2011 by maria_stardust because: Removed nested quote and replaced with "reply to" tag.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 





Because corporations are among those who utilize and place a large burden on this nation's infrastructure and resources in order to manufacture and transport their goods.. They use our roads, rails & highways to transport their products, they use our power grid to energize their factories, they use and pollute our water resources to the point that water will be this nations next shortage, they cut our timber, mine our coal and frack our groundwater into oblivion in search for natural gas.

What happened to personal responsibility? Is there such a thing as corporate responsibility? Really, I think a better question would be; Why are corporations being allowed to systematically rape America at taxpayer expense?
edit on 2/17/2011 by maria_stardust because: Removed nest quote and replaced with "reply to" tag.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 





Corporations pay for fuel to transport their goods which helps pay for the infastructure. They pay their energy bill or it gets shut off. The EPA imposes standards which they operate by.

So timber should not be cut and gas not mined? Is that what your saying and no trucks allowed on the roads to deliver products that consumers want? Raping taxpayers? You say these evil corporations are moving jobs offshore whichis wrong and I say remedy would be to eliminate corporate tax which is the highest in the world in the US and now you claim they're destroying the country you complain they're leaving from to begin with. I guess I just don't understand your argument other than corporation are evil.
edit on 2/17/2011 by maria_stardust because: Removed nested quote and replaced with "reply to" tag.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 


"By the way, why the hell is Obama holding back on this issue? I think he could be making the biggest mistake of his political career. He should be standing up for the truth."

Why is Obama silent? Because he knows the majority of Americans do not agree with these union thuggery tactics. Most Americans wonder why these folks are marching to the state house because they have to pay a small pittance for their benefits compared to what we all pay. He doesn't want to anger any more voters is what's going on. He'll take the piles of campaign money from the unions but doesn't give a rats butt about the workers.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 


Fine...if the US corporate tax rates are supposedly too high in comparison with other countries, lower the rate but make sure all these loopholes are closed. Regular ordinary working people don't have all the advantages of being able to shift their money around the way the large international conglomerations do.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by QueSeraSera
reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 


Fine...if the US corporate tax rates are supposedly too high in comparison with other countries, lower the rate but make sure all these loopholes are closed. Regular ordinary working people don't have all the advantages of being able to shift their money around the way the large international conglomerations do.


Fine by me.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Flat tax.
2 words, but it says alot.
Beez.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by HoldTheBeans

Corporations pay for fuel to transport their goods which helps pay for the infastructure. They pay their energy bill or it gets shut off. The EPA imposes standards which they operate by.

So timber should not be cut and gas not mined? Is that what your saying and no trucks allowed on the roads to deliver products that consumers want? Raping taxpayers? You say these evil corporations are moving jobs offshore whichis wrong and I say remedy would be to eliminate corporate tax which is the highest in the world in the US and now you claim they're destroying the country you complain they're leaving from to begin with. I guess I just don't understand your argument other than corporation are evil.


Well, why is that in the state of Alaska, every resident gets a check annually which is derived from oil royalties? It's because Alaska views the state's resources as belonging to it's residents and those who would extract them should pay the state for that privilege and not the other way around.

We all pay fuel taxes but we don't all haul 40 ton loads across our roads keeping them in a constant state of disrepair. On top of that, fuel taxes alone will not pay for the cost of building new infrastructure while maintaining the overused infrastructure currently in place. We all pay our electric bill but that doesn't cover the cost of building or upgrading our nation's electrical grid. When it comes to coal and timber, the companies that are operating on federal land are doing so for pennies on the dollar and it has to stop.


SM2

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 





Because corporations are among those who utilize and place a large burden on this nation's infrastructure and resources in order to manufacture and transport their goods.. They use our roads, rails & highways to transport their products, they use our power grid to energize their factories, they use and pollute our water resources to the point that water will be this nations next shortage, they cut our timber, mine our coal and frack our groundwater into oblivion in search for natural gas.

What happened to personal responsibility? Is there such a thing as corporate responsibility? Really, I think a better question would be; Why are corporations being allowed to systematically rape America at taxpayer expense?
edit on 2/17/2011 by maria_stardust because: Removed nest quote and replaced with "reply to" tag.


Actually, our power grid is not our power grid, our rails are nor our rails. These items were built by the "evil" corporations to make money. The power grid was built primarily by private firms then the government stepped in to "oversee" them. The rails were built by railroad companies. So that argument has little weight. Also, the companies pay thier power bill for the use of electricity, pay tolls and trucking companies for the transport, the trucking companies pay tariffs per state they operate in plus buy the fuel for transportation. So i would say that corporations pay for thier use of the infrastructure. The corporate tax does not pay for any of those things, its just another way for the federal government to make money to give to people who want to sit on thier butts all day watching Montel. The union getting hit is governemtn employee union. The government should not be allowed to unionize. They are public servants. Even down to the guy sweeping the office floor in a government building is a public servant. He/she works for you. With thier union they are only cornholing you for more money. Unions sure did a huge servce to the auto industry. Its a domino effect. The unions want more money, well, that money has to come from somewhere, and lets look at GM, they were putting GM out of business with thier unions. So instead of trying to get a "fair wage" which is a lie, they are just a greedy as the CEO of the company you work for, they were bargining the entire company out of a job. Unions used to be a needed thing in the work place, but now there are so many labor laws to protect you, that unions are just stealing your money to do nothing for you expect bankrupt the company you work for.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 


Alaska cuts a check to get people to live up there.

So your solution to evil corporations is no timber, they can't use roads or rail. Boy that will surely encourage companies to come to America or stay here.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by SM2

Actually, our power grid is not our power grid, our rails are nor our rails. These items were built by the "evil" corporations to make money. The power grid was built primarily by private firms then the government stepped in to "oversee" them. The rails were built by railroad companies. So that argument has little weight.


Uh, you might want to recheck your history source for factual content. According to this wiki link, the railroads were built by private companies alright, along with federal bond funding and federal land grants. Go figure, private businesses using public money.

en.wikipedia.org...
"The construction and operation of the line was authorized by the Pacific Railroad Acts of 1862 and 1864 during the American Civil War. The Congress supported it with 30-year U.S. government bonds and extensive land grants of government-owned land. Completion of the railroad was the culmination of a decades-long movement to build such a line."

I'll let you fact check the rest of your post on your own, good luck.



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