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Wisconsin shows rest of country the real union thuggery going on in this country

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posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by David134
 

If some unions are corrupt, fix them, don't negate, vilify and destroy them just because you need a convenient scapegoat.




posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


We're not looking for scapegoats, we're looking for criminals. That's the difference.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by Califemme
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


We're not looking for scapegoats, we're looking for criminals. That's the difference.


No. You're not looking for scapegoats because you've already found them. Condemning all unions because of a few bad apples in a few unions is neither logical nor conducive to a healthy or productive dialog.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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Most of these anti-union corporate lackys are young punks between 18 and 30 and have no clue as to what they are talking about because they were not born till unions were already in decline. They have no idea what the pay was for their grandparents and the working conditions at that time. It was the unions that improved the quality of life
for union members and non union members alike by setting the bar for wages.
So to you ungratefull anti-union corporate lackys, when the unions are gone and your boss wants to cut your salary in half to boost the profits, who are you going to cry to ? And remember you too can be replaced by someone younger more ambitious and for less money!



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by OLD HIPPY DUDE
Most of these anti-union corporate lackys are young punks between 18 and 30 and have no clue as to what they are talking about because they were not born till unions were already in decline. They have no idea what the pay was for their grandparents and the working conditions at that time. It was the unions that improved the quality of life
for union members and non union members alike by setting the bar for wages.
So to you ungratefull anti-union corporate lackys, when the unions are gone and your boss wants to cut your salary in half to boost the profits, who are you going to cry to ? And remember you too can be replaced by someone younger more ambitious and for less money!


Where was Jim Doyle for 8 years when all this could have been avoided? Where was the checks and balances on his watch?

Unions and Greed................

The US government is still owed about $2.1 billion in preferred shares; however, what typically goes unnoticed is the 61% stake the government still has in GM, which is valued around $45 billion.

"Since the taxpayers helped these companies out of bankruptcy, the taxpayers should be repaid before bonuses go out. It sends the message that those in charge take shareholders, in this case the taxpayers, for a sucker."

The media almost makes a point of ignoring the $45 billion controlling-stake by the government. Yes, General Motors needs to pay that back.

General Motors Hands Out $400 Million in Bonuses; Still Owes Billions to Gov't

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

As the Heritage Foundation's James Sherk points out, these numbers ought to be red flags for taxpayers because "government employees don't strike to get higher wages from a private business -- they strike to get higher wages from you."

"Their pay is funded through your tax dollars," he adds. "For government employee union members to get more, your taxes need to go up. So that is what unions now lobby for." And as with so much else in this country, Sherk cautions that what is happening on the West Coast is likely a portent of disturbing things to come for the rest of us:

* In Oregon, public employee unions are funding ballot initiatives to raise personal income and business taxes in order to protect gold-plated medical benefits from state spending reductions.

* In California, the Service Employees International Union spent at least $1 million on a massive television ad campaign demanding that desperate state government officials raise oil, gas and liquor taxes instead of cutting spending.

Ban government employee unions

I have no sympathy for Unions,or those in them.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:01 AM
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The FACTS of the case are:

1. Wisconsin was set for $120mil+ budget surplus for this year (according to the states own non-partisan budget office)

2. Scott Walker gave away over $140mil in tax breaks in his first two months in office to special interests that supported his campaign

3. The State now has a $137mil deficit

4. Walker is planning to raise the rates state employees pay for health benefits, and are forcing them to start paying for half of their retirement.

5. Walker is trying to remove collective bargaining rights for unions on the ground that it will help the State balance their budget deficit.

In short, scape-goat the unions to cover for the give-aways to the wealthy elites.

6. The only public employees who are exempt from losing collective bargaining are firefighters, police and state troopers - The three unions that supported Walker's campaign. One hand washes the other, eh?

7. Walker attempted to get this bill passed in under a week, in order to avoid any deliberation over the details.

8. Walker attempted to hold voting on this bill in a private business building, in order to avoid protesters outside the Capital. He was told after trying that it was actually illegal to do so.

What's wrong about all this isn't the idea that teachers, or any state employee for that matter, are getting paid too well, or have benefits that are too good - it's that Gov. Walker wants to rob them of their rights to bargain for better pay and better benefits - things that should be inalienable to ANY American.

If he thinks they are getting paid too much, then he should take it up at the bargaining table. What he is doing is despicable.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


Ah,heres some more fact failed to mention in your post..........

The various contracts between the state of Wisconsin and their multiple government employee unions contain dozens of provisions regarding guaranteeing the ability of union stewards to operate in and out of the workplace, often while paid.

They are allowed to use work interoffice mail, phones, email and fax machines to communicate union business.

They are guaranteed time off to attend union-mandated educational classes as well as to attend annual union conventions.

Employees on leave without pay to attend to union and contract bargaining activities are allowed to still accrue vacation and sick leave, not for time working for the state, but for time participating in authorized union activities.

The most-senior employees are generally allowed to bump down to a lower classification if they are minimumly qualified to perform the new job, yet they still maintain their current rate of pay when (or more precisely if) layoffs occur. This routinely leaves the newest employees the most vulnerable while reducing the cost-savings associated with employee attrition.

Those who do receive notice of layoffs are allowed to search for new employment while at work.

These work rules are so pervasive and the contracts are so arcane, that they actually mandate the size of the bulletin boards at the work place. (You think I’m kidding?)

The Employer shall provide bulletin boards at locations mutually agreed upon for use by the local Unions to enable employees of the bargaining unit to see notices posted thereon. Such mutual agreement shall be arrived at locally. The normal size of new bulletin boards will be eight (8) square feet. The Employer will maintain bulletin boards provided under prior negotiated collective bargaining agreements and they need not conform to the normal size. In the event any new bulletin boards are mutually agreed upon, the Employer shall pay fifty percent (50%) and the Union shall pay fifty percent (50%) of the cost of such new boards.

Union-Negotiated Work Rules for Public Employees Cost Taxpayers

I didnt vote for Walker. I also didnt vote for Unions to to have more than the average working man. Lets face it,They are ALL crooks. No sympathy for those who are abusing the system,Big Government,and Big Government sector Unions.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:37 AM
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Are you complaining because you think union employees get too much or because you think they shouldn't have the right to collective bargaining? If these employees can't speak up for themselves then who WILL speak for them? Or should they just "trust" the government?



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 


Its a beautiful thing and I hope these demonstrations move to other states and get crazy. The longer it goes on, the more harm it does to these union thugs, who are really showing what they are all about and that is plain old self interest. Cool, everyone is motivated by self interest to some degree, but the naked hubris of these folks, acting as if they were performing life saving functions and deserve to continue to get their sweet employment packages while everyone else tightens their belts is so transparent its funny. I hope this business goes on for weeks.

Now Obama is stuck between supporting the public employee union members, one of the most unpopular groups in the country or the rest of the tax paying public.

The gov should fire every one of those teachers and replace them. If they have to school all summer, so be it.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 04:02 AM
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Obama and the democrats are going to sell out the unions big time.

You can see it in calif already with union teachers being laid off and replaced with chartered schools.

The democrats see the writing on the wall the unions have been giving them money for years but a lot of union members have been voting republican at the same time because of the democrat support of the environmental movement and the anti gun movement.

And the democrats have been a big killer of private sector union jobs with treaties like NAFTA.
NAFTA was a democrat bill pushed by President Clinton that cost the unions a lot of jobs in the US.
Many of the environmental laws pushed by the democrats have also decimated the union workers in the US.
Right now the democrats are looking for corporate money from big business.
and now you have companies like Monsanto running there toxic crops with the help of the democrats.
democraticnationusa.blogspot.com...
This will be there sellout of the environmental movement.

At least the republicans are honest about supporting big business after taking there money.

The democrats always claim to the environmental movement then take there money and back stab them by supporting one of the Most Evil Corporation in the world Monsanto.
discussions.e-thepeople.org...
www.gamingthemarket.com...
www.dailymail.co.uk... .html
thefutureoffoodfilm.wordpress.com...
newworldorderdawning.lefora.com...
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posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 04:02 AM
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edit on 18-2-2011 by ANNED because: dp



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


They are the Government workers getting fat off the PEOPLE. They are abusing the system,like the Government is abusing the system.

Example,Milwaukee Public Schools are shut down,because of this. Must be nice to be able to take off work,on the taxpayers dime,and force a shutdown. How about those with Non-Union Jobs? Those that cant afford to take off of work,and might lose their Jobs,because of their actions? Collective Bargaining? How about leaving "WE THE PEOPLE" in a hostage crisis? Whats next,Police and Firemen deciding not to do their Job?

Dont say it cant happen.......

Maybe its time for those Have-Nots to voice their opinions in mass protest also.

edit on 18-2-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-2-2011 by sonnny1 because: spelling



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


The facts are : This exact scenario is taking place in almost all 50 states.
-- Seek the Truth --
Over the years the unions have received "sweetheart deals" in exchange for getting the
corrupt politicians elected.
California.....New York.....Wisconsin.....the list goes on and on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A quick tax hike is not the "solution". A few states may have to find a way to file bankruptcy
in order to break all these "rotten" deals made with the unions.
Just the threat of bankruptcy would be enough to bring the unions to the table.
Then and only then will they say "OK, i guess we can be reasonable now."




posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


They are the Government workers getting fat off the PEOPLE. They are abusing the system,like the Government is abusing the system.

Example,Milwaukee Public Schools are shut down,because of this. Must be nice to be able to take off work,on the taxpayers dime,and force a shutdown. How about those with Non-Union Jobs? Those that cant afford to take off of work,and might lose their Jobs,because of their actions? Collective Bargaining? How about leaving "WE THE PEOPLE" in a hostage crisis? Whats next,Police and Firemen deciding not to their Job?

Dont say it cant happen.......


--- 2 words --- Double Dipping

The majority of Americans see exactly what the truth is here.
Obama has stepped in it with his "unions under assault" 1 liner.
The unions spent millions of dollars getting Obama elected. So he has $millions$ of reasons to get
involved.

Maybe its time for those Have-Nots to voice their opinions in mass protest also.

edit on 18-2-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-2-2011 by Eurisko2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012
Over the years the unions have received "sweetheart deals" in exchange for getting the
corrupt politicians elected.

So how does that compare to the other side?



Top Democratic and Republican Donors in 2010
Top Overall Donors to Republicans:

Elliott Management (a Hedge fund company)
Koch Industries (note: the billioaire who is the main financier of the Teabaggers)
Every Republican is Crucial PAC
Associated Builders & Contractors
(so-called) "Freedom" Project (a Republican PAC)

NOTES: Top Republican supporters are billionaires, contractors, and hedge funds...and keep in mind this applies to the Teabagger movement as well. They are supported by the same billionaires, contractors, and hedge funds.

Top Overall Donors to Democrats:

ActBlue (composite of many, many small, grassroots donations)
Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
Laborers Union
Machinists/Aerospace Workers Union
EMILY's List (composite of many, many small grassroots donations)
Plumbers/Pipefitters Union
National Assn of Letter Carriers
Ironworkers Union
United Auto Workers
United Transportation Union
American Postal Workers Union
UNITE HERE
AmeriPAC: The Fund for a Greater America

NOTES: Top Democratic supporters are unions and grassroots donors.

Seems to me the contrast is really quite sharp: Billionaires vs. working and middle class.

Now looking only at corporate donors here is a list of the large corporations that donated 60% or more to Republicans vs. 60% or more to Democrats.

Republican Supporters:

Goldman Sachs (60% donations to Republicans)
Blue Cross/Blue Shield (61% donations to Republicans)
Bank of America (63% donations to Republicans)
Wells Fargo (68% donations to Republicans)
Home Depot (67% donations to Republicans)
Altria Group (formerly Philip Morris!) (74% donations to Republicans)

Democraitc Supporters:

Comcast Corp (65% donations to Democrats)
General Electric (60% donations to Democrats)

Remember that Goldman Sachs, Bank of America and Wells Fargo all took bailout money that was taxpayer financed...and they used some of that money to elect Republicans. Altria is basically Philip Morris, a tobacco company. Blue Cross/Blue Shield is trying to block Healthcare Reform. culturekitchen.com...


And the Big Boys get y'all to blame your neighbours.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:20 AM
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Doh.
The canuck brought actual facts and numbers in.
Prepare for the Republican onslaught of deflect,blame and skew.
Its so obvious they are not for the avg citizen that its almost absurd how they perform in public.
My 93 yo Grandmother watched the Grand Old Party go from for the middle class heroes too the Graft Only Pay party they are today.



edit on 18-2-2011 by VType because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Sorry Johnny,They are ALL crooks. Republican,Democrat. God Bless those Unions though,saving Jobs and Viagra,one pill at a time!!!!!!!



The district gave layoff notices to 482 teachers in June, but recalled 89 of them last month. Additional teachers may be called back, but these are still the first layoffs of Milwaukee teachers in decades.

At least one lawmaker questioned why the union is fighting for Viagra while teachers are losing their jobs. A consultant for the school board has estimated that reinstating the drug benefit would cost $786,000 per year — the cost to keep perhaps a dozen first-year teachers employed.

State Rep. Jason Fields argues that the money could be better spent any number of ways — including saving jobs.

"You've got to be kidding me," said Fields, a Milwaukee Democrat. "The fact that is the point of contention is kind of frightening. What are our priorities? I'm all for love and peace. But almost 1 million dollars? And you go to court over this issue?



Viagra Needed



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


The "sweetheart deals" need to be broken in order for the states to get their budgets in order.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't change the subject.
Spreadsheets don't lie. The numbers do not add up.
The old "Oh, just 1 more tax hike and then everything will be fine." will not work anymore.
The governors plan is fair. Have you even looked at it???



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 08:58 AM
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For the past two years the company I work for reduced salaries 5% across the board. No negotiations, they just did it. Same thing for my retirement plan. They reduced the 401k contributions and increased heath insurance costs for everyone. Again no asking the employees or negotiations. They said it had to be done or they would have to start letting people go.

So I ask all you pro-union people why should people like me that work in the private sector have any sympathy for these teachers that are protesting being asked to pay a small amount into their retirement and health care benefits like the rest of us do? They should get back to work and do what needs to be done to keep their jobs.

It is BS to think that just because you work in the public sector the tax payers should cover 100% of your healthcare and retirement benefits.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by Eurisko2012
 


Star for you.


Its the reason why the Governor was elected. Look up Jim Doyles legacy for the last 8 years he was Governor. That will give you the answer on why things are like they are today. Power corrupts. These Unions are holding everyone hostage. Just yesterday,schools closed 2 hours before they were to be opened,leaving Familys scrambling to find out where their kids were.



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