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So, we're all Adolf Hitler and he is us!

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posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


God can not be seen, because god is seeing. When the question who am i, what am i? is taken as the most important question, on finding the answer the source is unveiled. The source is what is seeing so it can not be seen.
edit on 17-2-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
God can not be seen, because god is seeing. When the question who am i, what am i? is taken as the most important question, on finding the answer the source is unveiled. The source is what is seeing so it can not be seen.


Then God means something different to you then it does to me.

No problems.

To me God is everywhere, he is visible, but not in his entirety because I have not seen all and I cannot see within myself. I know he is within me, because I see him within you.

God is within me, and without me. God is within you AND without you.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


Yes,god is everything. The miracle is that somehow, as humans, we have the ability to inquire into our own selves (consciousness). We can appreciate, and wonder at this creation.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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I don't know about ayone else here, but I'm sure feeling my inner-Adolph today.

Like a boil that's yearning to blow free into the air.

Praise be!
edit on 2/17/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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Right. It's all fun and games until someone tests 'positive', for a thing that's 'negative'.

All that matters is that religions get used to wipe out israel's enemies.

When the maharishi indicated that he, too, wished to enjoy some Beatle snatch, the lads were quickly done with him. Why would this be so?

I am he as you are me as you are we...



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Cythraul
This may end up being the first ATS post which knowingly cowers from the truth
.

Right… I’ve just read this recent thread. I’m also currently reading David Icke’s latest book “Human Race: Get Off Your Knees”. They both say the exact same thing about the true nature of reality and spirit. If I may quote a particular part of 2manyquestions’ post:


“I suppose that this presence is the thing to which many people refer to as "God". I felt a oneness with this being. I finally understood that I was it, it was me, it was you, it was the grass, it was the rock, it was the ant, the bird, the wind, the sky, the earth,.... it was everything. It was love, hate, anger, sadness, it was us. Imagine yourself being cut into a quadrillion pieces, and those individual pieces being able to have experiences of their own, separate from the whole. According to my vision that's what our world is. The world and all of us, we are IT.”


2manyquestions also goes on to say, precisely as David Icke does, that:


“This "physical" world we live in is a mathematical illusion. To help you understand better, it's like an extremely intricate virtual reality program complete with physics assigned to our world, which we are forced to follow.”


Ok, so that’s the basic premise of reality and it seems to be becoming a very popular belief – primarily among truth seekers and what I like to call the ‘post-atheist generation’. In all honesty, it makes total sense to me – it’s as likely to be the ultimate truth as anything else I’ve ever heard. And yet, it leaves me feeling quite cold. Let me explain why:

I’m a spiritual person and I have compassion and empathy for all living beings. I also value my own unique consciousness. I view my consciousness as being accessible in this material body and also in higher levels of existence, but I view it as eternally independent. Spiritual independence may take on a new meaning on higher plains – such as meaning that souls can communicate telepathically and thus know more of one another. I’m all for an interconnectedness, but ‘interconnectedness’ implies the presence of more than one sovereign spirit as opposed to just one single infinite entity.

Perhaps a part of me is disgusted by the proposition that, ultimately, I am Tony Blair and he is me; I am Joseph Stalin and he is me; I am Jack the Ripper and he is me; I am the rapist and he is me. I work towards self-betterment whilst others don’t, and yet all that work goes not to the betterment of my eternal consciousness but merely contributes towards the neutral consciousness of the ‘I’ that is all of us. You can’t even call us a ‘combination’ of souls because that again implies the presence of more than one.

Even 2manyquestions at one point in his/her thread says:


“As strange as it may seem, I actually began to miss my "virtual" life a little, and couldn't wait to return to it so that I could continue.”


I can completely understand that. To know that we only have sovereignty of consciousness in this brief life and then it’s all lost in favour of what I can only refer to as eternal “oblivion”:


–noun
1. the state of being completely forgotten or unknown: aformer movie star now in oblivion.

www.dictionary.com


The ramifications of this are quite enormous:

• No such thing as ‘past lives’ in the meaningful sense (every life ever is our past life and we could not possibly remember or identify with one ‘life’ more than any other, making past-life regression futile).
• The pointlessness of living a good, moral life.
• Undermining the traditional understanding of ‘soul mates’ or ‘an old soul’.
• Destroying the concepts of culture and identity.
• Making spiritual gnosis trivial (if we’re all one ‘force’ then we’re all going to know what the rest of that ‘force’ knows anyway, ultimately. We might as well live for material gain – we might as well live hedonistically and selfishly).



So, to refer back to the title I chose for this thread: what Hitler did wasn’t wrong, it was just a necessary experience of the “all that is”.

Even as I write this, I see the errors in my questioning of this. I see that this probably is true and that it’s probably quite pathetic not to embrace it. And yet I can’t help but feel quite uncomfortable about this ‘truth’. No doubt I will find a way to love the idea by the time this experience in this body ‘dies’ and becomes absorbed into the great, endless oblivion. I hope I do, because right now the prospect feels almost as bleak as if there were a complete lack of afterlife.

I wrote this to just put an alternative opinion out there about this increasingly-popular theory. There are many threads on ATS which essentially boil down to the same revelation and in all of them everyone seems completely overjoyed by the idea. I’m happy for all of you, but I’ve not quite drawn the same conclusions… yet. Perhaps someone can help me feel more comfortable with this, or perhaps others too are less than comfortable with the truth.
This is kind of where I am at right now. I consider it an existential crisis. When I was a christian, I had the answers. Or I thought I did. Now that I haven't been a christian for a while and believe there's no god, I am without. This belief that there's nothing after this life and that we're just DNA expressed through nature and the universe is exciting because of the learning experience (learning always helps to make me optimistic), but it's also incredibly lacking when compared to christianity.

I'm still battling it. Death scares me sometimes. I hate to think about it because right now I see death as something that's sad. It's a life that's taken away. A series of memories that're gone. I get down when I think about how people get old. The wisdom we gain in life has great value, but there comes a point in life where it takes more from you than it gives. At that point, no amount of wisdom can make up for what you lost. There comes a point where we either transcend our own physical prison by focusing on society or family or others or the universe or something other than ourselves or, if we choose not to transcend, to be swamped by sadness and loss and indulgence (drugs, places/things to lose ourselves in) and emptiness that has no answer except the darkness of death.

I watched a show on youtube where Micheal Shermer made some insightful comments:

Micheal Shermer brought up some advice about how to find purpose in life:
1) Have a deep relationship with someone.
2) Change the world in a meaningful and positive manner; work,etc.
3) Help others and be involved socially, politically; we're social animals.
4) Some form of transcendency that's beyond you; helping something that lives longer than you.
Anyway, the sadness I feel is like real pain. It's a feeling of loss.

People say death is good and that old people are happy. But I don't believe it. They're numb. Age does things to you that numbs the pain. It's like seeing so much death that you no longer feel sadness. Old people have felt so much loss in life that they no longer can feel it. I just do not understand how Albert Einstein dying was good for our world. Was he a bad person? Did he deserve to die? Or how people dying young is good. Or how a person dying and taking their memories with them is good. I just don't get any happy feelings about death. It's just a sense of dread and it's like nature indifferently gutting a loved one and taking them from you forever. How is that good? Or how the increasing physical pain of old age is good. How? Old people are much more likely to die from simple injuries or to get cancer or whatever. I'm both angry and sad. But the sadness is greater.

Einstein said that if you study the universe you can be young forever because it's so exciting. I'm glad that he enjoyed it. I'm happy for people that're happy and old. But a lot of them are dead so it doesn't make much difference to me whether they're happy or not because they're dead. If they can come back and hit me over the head and laugh and say "Ha! You're so gullible!" then I'll understand.

But right now I don't. We're in denial about how ugly and unfriendly death and this life really are. In reality, this is a brutal deathmatch arena. And for some, the only joy they get is in death. Happiness is just fantasy. People find this universe so ugly that they use religion and/or fantasy to escape it. Fact is, it's a ugly bitch. The most successful of us manage to better society or others, they don't focus on themselves. They focus on something larger than us that lives longer than we do. This is probably the most transcendent thing anyone can do. But, in reality, it still doesn't make this universe any less ugly. Humans aren't bees. We can't be a hive mind that focuses just on the hive.

So anyway. Say what you want. Death is the enemy. Every old person that dies is like a close friend to me. I didn't know you, but you were like me in many/most ways. I hope we record all of your names and your histories and we don't forget you. I won't worship death. Death is a joke. I don't see to embrace it, I seek to destroy it. I'm just a selfish human being that has many limits and faults. I can't solve our problems. I'm a coward and I'm weak. But I still believe these things.

Death is the oppressor and we shouldn't appease it by GLADLY entering our coffins. FEEL THE ANGER?

Love you all. We're all feeling pain. Some feel too much. I hope things get better for you.
edit on 17-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by jonnywhite
 


Wonderful post my friend. I am sorry to hear that you are going through the spiritual struggles you are. I am curious as to why you stopped believing in God?

In the mean time, lets take a look at death. You see it as the enemy. I see death as the most merciful act of God.

It is easy to see death as an enemy when you have a decent life. What of those who are starving and living in abject poverty? Should they suffer for all eternity?

What about those who live in absolute bliss loaded with wealth beyond all imaginings? Should they continue to accumulate more and more while pushing others deeper into suffering?

Death is not the enemy my friend. It is a merciful act of God. It is necessary until Man realises that we are all a family and have a sacred duty to help each other survive.

When we end the suffering that we allow in this world, then we through the grace of God, will conquer death.

When you realise that this is what we are supposed to be doing, then you will live again.

With Love,

Your Brother

P.S. You are not a coward and you are not weak. It took strength and courage to post your feelings as you did.

You are a Child of God. All that you ask for, and believe he will provide, he does. Help others see that by answering some prayers of others. Glorify the Father through your actions. Prove he exists by answering some prayers.
edit on 17-2-2011 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by jonnywhite

So, to refer back to the title I chose for this thread: what Hitler did wasn’t wrong, it was just a necessary experience of the “all that is”.

Even as I write this, I see the errors in my questioning of this. I see that this probably is true and that it’s probably quite pathetic not to embrace it. And yet I can’t help but feel quite uncomfortable about this ‘truth’. No doubt I will find a way to love the idea by the time this experience in this body ‘dies’ and becomes absorbed into the great, endless oblivion. I hope I do, because right now the prospect feels almost as bleak as if there were a complete lack of afterlife.

I wrote this to just put an alternative opinion out there about this increasingly-popular theory. There are many threads on ATS which essentially boil down to the same revelation and in all of them everyone seems completely overjoyed by the idea. I’m happy for all of you, but I’ve not quite drawn the same conclusions… yet. Perhaps someone can help me feel more comfortable with this, or perhaps others too are less than comfortable with the truth.


This is kind of where I am at right now. I consider it an existential crisis. When I was a christian, I had the answers. Or I thought I did. Now that I haven't been a christian for a while and believe there's no god, I am without. This idea that there's nothing after this life and that we're just DNA expressed through nature and the universe is both exciting because of the learning experience, but it's also incredibly sad when compared to my previous beliefs.

I'm still battling it. Death scares me sometimes. I hate to think about it because right now I see death as something that's sad. It's a life that's taken away. A series of memories that're gone. I get down when I think about how people get old. The wisdom we gain in life has great value, but there comes a point in life where it takes more from you than it gives. At that point, no amount of wisdom can make up for what you lost. There comes a point where we either transcend our own physical prison by focusing on society or family or others or the universe or something other than ourselves or, if we choose not to transcend, to be swamped by sadness and loss and indulgence (drugs, places/things to lose ourselves in) and emptiness that has no answer except the darkness of death.

I watched a show on youtube where Micheal Shermer made some insightful comments:

Micheal Shermer brought up some advice about how to find purpose in life:
1) Have a deep relationship with someone.
2) Change the world in a meaningful and positive manner; work,etc.
3) Help others and be involved socially, politically; we're social animals.
4) Some form of transcendency that's beyond you; helping something that lives longer than you.

Anyway, the sadness I feel is like real pain. It's a feeling of loss.

People say death is good and that old people are happy. But I don't believe it. They're numb. Age does things to you that numbs the pain. It's like seeing so much death that you no longer feel sadness. Old people have felt so much loss in life that they no longer can feel it. I just do not understand how Albert Einstein dying was good for our world. Was he a bad person? Did he deserve to die? Or how people dying young is good. Or how a person dying and taking their memories with them is good. I just don't get any happy feelings about death. It's just a sense of dread and it's like nature indifferently gutting a loved one and taking them from you forever. How is that good? Or how the increasing physical pain of old age is good. How? Old people are much more likely to die from simple injuries or to get cancer or whatever. I'm both angry and sad. But the sadness is greater and I don't know how to escape it


Listen, I bust nuts on here a lot, and mainly because I really enjoy it, but I'm picking up some real concern from your post, so I'm going to get serious for a moment. Take this for what it's worth, but I may be able to help you understand exactly what you have ahead of you. Not specifically you - of course - but you as a human being. I can't predict your future. I'm not psychic and I don't travel with a burning bush in a road anvil case for show and tell.

What I do have is important information that you might find really comforting, and I'd like to just lay out the headlines here. I can back up everything that I'll claim, but to do that would be impossible on this board. In my signature space, there is a link to a small site I tossed up that doesn't do too much yet either, but the book link will bring you to 340 pages of extremely detailed work I already did to prove everything that I'm about to claim. You can do what you want, but I always feel it important to let anyone who seems like they'd be grateful for the information to know where they can get it.

Here's the headlines in bullet-point format:


  1. You're already an eternal informational being that will never lose its identity or conscious awareness - not ever
  2. Your body and brain serve as the 2nd stage of your physical gestation (the 1st stage was in your mom's belly)
  3. Your brain "generates" the true human being (unit of event = unit of information) that you are as it responds to corporeal life
  4. You are a existential hybrid (both corporeal and informational) during this development phase
  5. You become fully informational once the body and brain die - it's a simple transition of "point of perspective" from the short term memory input to the gathered gestated informational whole that's always been there and in development
  6. The dynamic and conscious form of information that the human being consists of is called Intellect
  7. The development of the human being is a natural process - due to the sophistication of the information brought into existence by the brain itself.
  8. You can't fail in life, and nothing can ever destroy or subjugate you - your body will die off anyway, but you'll never die off
  9. All around us and threaded through all of our theologies and philosophies are the clues and indications of what I'm suggesting
  10. As dynamic Intellect information, the fully developed human being is literally invulnerable, but it can be hoodwinked into servitude and even eternal subjugation if it's been taught to believe such a thing can be imposed upon it
  11. Knowing this stuff will make all the difference in your eternal existence


Like I said, I can prove all of this, and even more (such as why did the human being began believing in a creator god and what causes humans to feel "spiritual bliss"), but it's up to you if you decide to look into this. I don't believe in magic, or miracles, or even the concept of holy. I only believe in what I can make sense of by empirical data, cold hard logic, responsible extrapolation and the obvious ramifications of whatever proves itself to be true. Nothing mystical about that.

Your post just seemed like it reflects a lot of what many people are honestly trying to figure out, and I just thought I'd toss my own 2 cents in along with all the others. Good luck with your search.
edit on 2/17/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by jonnywhite
This is kind of where I am at right now. I consider it an existential crisis.

'Existential crisis' - I like that! And I want to thank you for opening up with so many personal feelings. It's kind of what I was aiming for in my OP but I think you achieved honesty better than I did. Because, if I were to be as honest as you, this 'existential crisis' has me, not afraid, but somewhat sorrowful. The afterlife I thought awaited me and my loved ones may not exist, and I seem to be the only 'enlightened' person not jumping for joy at the prospect of merging with all-that-is. I'm sorry - I love all that is, but at the same time I want to retain spiritual sovereignty.


And actually, when I think about all of this, I can't help but draw the conclusion that 'infinite consciousness/oneness' isn't actually a very spiritual concept at all. It's like 'alternative atheism'. Let me explain: it's long been understood by scientists that our bodies contain a large amount of energy. Energy doesn't just die, so when our bodies die that energy goes somewhere. Even atheists would have to agree on this. Now what is this single, ultimate field of energy from which we're all derived if not simply the natural energy carried within each and every human body? This theory is simply science and there seems to be nothing to suggest that this mighty energy field that is all of us has any kind of supernatural intelligence beyond what the energy in an electric grid has. So when we die, we all merge with this 'infinite consciousness' that actually has no meaningful consciousness whatsoever?



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 





And yet I can’t help but feel quite uncomfortable about this ‘truth’. No doubt I will find a way to love the idea by the time this experience in this body ‘dies’ and becomes absorbed into the great, endless oblivion. I hope I do, because right now the prospect feels almost as bleak as if there were a complete lack of afterlife


Instead of taking the word of every self-professed "awakened" individual who posts here excitedly about imminent ascension, why not undertake an earnest reasearch of the available metaphysical knowledge and make your own determination?

According to mystic teachings, the soul never loses its uniqueness and spiritual identity. The soul is an individual spark or focus of consciousness which emanates its own cosmic sound, and while it may join countless others in a grand spiritual orchestra, it will always sing its own tune.

It may be that when the soul experiences the presence of the Godhood, it will lose all awarness of itself, being lost and absorbed in the love and splendour of the Lord, but it is still not "one with everything". Even poeple in this world, when they are deeply in love, often forget themselves in their adoration of their loved one, so you can only imagine how much greater would be the attraction of God himself.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:54 PM
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There has been some discussion about Truth. What truth is and how our entry into the consciousness of ONE will destroy our individuality and our sovereignty. Might I point out that Truth is whatever the collective consciousness says that it is. The collective consciousness is liken to one mind,thinking as ONE. Likened to a human heart beating as ONE. The many have become ONE. There's no more searching. No more doubt, fear or unanswered questions. All we be as it should be. It's all about creativity. The creativity of creating all of Creation. So let's get to it! - Aham Brahmasmi.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


It is funny to me how Hitler has become the universal poster child for all things evil. Vlad the Impaler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Idi Amin, those involved in the Crusades were all just as awful.

That said. I suggest not seeing yourself as the PR campaign created about Hitler. You are him yes, you are not the mythology. Why does this matter? My guess is you never met him, never had any interaction with him, so your connection is nothing more that your "feelings" about stories you've heard. To get riled up when you find out you area all things, even the bad ones, is a liberation, but it can't be challenging to access that if you recoil from the stories you've heard.

More than that, Hitler wasn't what you think, or were told, he was, which can confuse things even more. All things are all parts of you, all parts of you are all things. You separate your self off into seemingly different aspects of yourself in order to have a more interesting experience. Would it be all that fun to simply play all games by yourself with yourself? More fun to play games by yourself, with yourself, but forgetting it is yourself.

Welcome to US!



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


I had the same experience. Well, I dont know the details of the person you quoted's experience, but I came to the same conclusions during my experience.

You would not feel so upset or insulted about being Stalin or Hitler if you experienced from that perspective. Your body slaughters cells in your own body all the time. Do you feel icky because of it? Or do not not care at all because you are the whole, not the individual cells and "you" persist? In my experience, it even goes beyond that in "God" time is meaningless. What can death and life even mean when the "individual" exists in a state that is both and neither?

You just cant explain it adequately to someone who hasnt experienced it yet. And you can think about it all day long, and you wont "get" it. But I am encouraged by how many people seem to be having the experience. Maybe you wont have to figure it out, or have someone try to explain it. Perhaps you will just experience it too, and then you wont mind being Hitler.



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:45 PM
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I read a post back about a question of God, if there was a God or if there is God and I wondered? Why ask this question? Why this unanswerable question? Such an incomprehendable question? Then it occured to me that the seer can not see the seer. The promised land can not be the journey. Alpha is Omega. We search for what has not been lost. You see, we are ONE. It's like a big Cosmic mirror has been lifted in front of our face and we can finally for the first time see our own face. It is the face of the ONE searching for itself. We are soon home to the ONE. Joyous, jubilation...free at last, we're free at last...praise God THE Almighty! WE ARE FREE AT LAST!!! PEACE, LOVE N LIGHT



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by HUMBLEONE
I read a post back about a question of God, if there was a God or if there is God and I wondered? Why ask this question? Why this unanswerable question? Such an incomprehendable question? Then it occured to me that the seer can not see the seer. The promised land can not be the journey. Alpha is Omega. We search for what has not been lost. You see, we are ONE. It's like a big Cosmic mirror has been lifted in front of our face and we can finally for the first time see our own face. It is the face of the ONE searching for itself. We are soon home to the ONE. Joyous, jubilation...free at last, we're free at last...praise God THE Almighty! WE ARE FREE AT LAST!!! PEACE, LOVE N LIGHT


Are you your Brothers Keeper my friend?

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


something to consider is this...

that if you DO subscribe to reincarnation, .. that separate nodes of consciousness follow a chain of finite consecutive experiences (following linear time here no not non-linear singularity) ...
then YOU the OP very well may have had experienced lives where you were performing severely horrific acts upon others.

also... you bring about speculation here that leads to questioning the validity as to the concepts of "right and wrong" or "good and evil" .. where eventually.. a concept of "reason vs survival" or "order vs chaos" would be more applicable... where in "god's mind" .. or the "All" .. there is essentially only LOVE.. love of the All's self..

so if the All's consciousness finally can consistently percieve it'self through each 'node' (personality)... then the All.. would eventually choose 'reason' ..reason being .. anything that leads towards self-comfort and pleasure and love towards itself.. which would translate towards each node (personage) .. acting lovingly towards one another..

the concept of division brings about this dualistic thinking of good and evil.. when that's only really a relative concept ... relative to each node's experience..

but when (2012 ascension, telepathic linkage?) .. comes.. this All will hypothetically see more into and through each other's experience.. and eventually be forced to choose reason as the leading impetus to it's actions.. which would lead toward love and order towards it's existence...

capiche? i hope?

-



posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by Cythraul
This may end up being the first ATS post which knowingly cowers from the truth
.

I can completely understand that. To know that we only have sovereignty of consciousness in this brief life and then it’s all lost in favour of what I can only refer to as eternal “oblivion”:

The ramifications of this are quite enormous:

• No such thing as ‘past lives’ in the meaningful sense (every life ever is our past life and we could not possibly remember or identify with one ‘life’ more than any other, making past-life regression futile).
• The pointlessness of living a good, moral life.
• Undermining the traditional understanding of ‘soul mates’ or ‘an old soul’.
• Destroying the concepts of culture and identity.
• Making spiritual gnosis trivial (if we’re all one ‘force’ then we’re all going to know what the rest of that ‘force’ knows anyway, ultimately. We might as well live for material gain – we might as well live hedonistically and selfishly).


Even as I write this, I see the errors in my questioning of this. I see that this probably is true and that it’s probably quite pathetic not to embrace it. And yet I can’t help but feel quite uncomfortable about this ‘truth’. No doubt I will find a way to love the idea by the time this experience in this body ‘dies’ and becomes absorbed into the great, endless oblivion. I hope I do, because right now the prospect feels almost as bleak as if there were a complete lack of afterlife.
There are many threads on ATS which essentially boil down to the same revelation and in all of them everyone seems completely overjoyed by the idea. I’m happy for all of you, but I’ve not quite drawn the same conclusions… yet. Perhaps someone can help me feel more comfortable with this, or perhaps others too are less than comfortable with the truth.



There is no eternal oblivion.
The fact you are here is intuitive proof there
is no eternal oblivion or even eternal enlightenment.
All that is known is consciousness.
All you see is a world full
of conscious creatures.
There is only eternal consciousness.
The form of consciousness is always changing.
There is no real evidence of consciousness evolving
through reincarnation. How many evolved people
did you meet today? None.
The ocean waves,the universe peoples.-Alan Watts
Your body dies,your consciousness IF fully enlightened
merges with the infinite consciousness. But for how long?
Eventually it will, it must,return to the lower states of
consciousness. It would be very boring to be nothing but
endless Love/Bliss.
But from the point of view of
infinite consciousness,God, all creatures are the same.
So you may return as any creature capable of consciousness.
You come back as an ant,a monkey, or the Queen of England.
Rinse.
Repeat.
Ad Infinitum.
Now that is a truth to cower from.

The optimist believes this is the best of all possible worlds,
the pessimist fears he is right. James Branch Cabell







edit on 17-2-2011 by RRokkyy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 01:55 AM
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Only read the OP, but in response to the seemingly nihilist direction you've steered this philosophy in I'd like to point a few things out (at the risk of repeating somebody further up the thread).

a) Yes it appears as though we ARE all one and the same, made up of the same fundamental particles, the formless taking form; experiencing itself through various points of consciousness perpetuating this identity illusion we've got going on. However, if on a metaphysical (and even a loosely physical) level we're all the same thing, wouldn't it make sense to attempt to mirror this unity in our physical forms? To bridge the gaps between one another and truly perceive the unity we're all a part of?

b) People who embrace these philosophies generally have an experiential basis for doing so; these experiences very often contain implicit existential guidelines which generally equate to our currently promoted (albeit ignored) western system of values, and seem like a good place to start in terms of enjoying your time here as consciousness.
Whether our actions are eternally meaningful or not is arbitrary; a life focused on material pursuits is just as unfulfilling whether you subscribe to these philosophies or not.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by mysticnoon
According to mystic teachings, the soul never loses its uniqueness and spiritual identity. The soul is an individual spark or focus of consciousness which emanates its own cosmic sound, and while it may join countless others in a grand spiritual orchestra, it will always sing its own tune.

Thank you for sharing that. This is what I want the nature of higher consciousness to be - not separateness, but not oneness. Collaboration and harmony suits me.



Originally posted by crankyoldman
It is funny to me how Hitler has become the universal poster child for all things evil. Vlad the Impaler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Idi Amin, those involved in the Crusades were all just as awful.

Ya know, it's funny. I wrote my OP before coming up with a title for the thread. Notice how in my actual post I mention Tony Blair, Stalin and Jack the Ripper as examples of evil - not Hitler! When thinking up a title, I thought about putting "So, we're all Stalin and he is us!". The reason I chose Hitler is because is a more popular example of evil - not because I see him as the poster child for evil. This was me giving in to convention. Sometimes you have to tap into the mainstream in order to make a very alternative point.



Originally posted by prevenge
that if you DO subscribe to reincarnation, .. that separate nodes of consciousness follow a chain of finite consecutive experiences (following linear time here no not non-linear singularity) ...
then YOU the OP very well may have had experienced lives where you were performing severely horrific acts upon others.

Yeah I get ya, and you raise some deep, interesting points. I find it interesting that the average person would view this theory of 'oneness' as extremely 'New Agey', and yet it is also a theory which appears to fundamentally excuse evil acts, or choices which led to evil acts.

As for the bit you wrote which I've quoted. Previously I held a belief that my soul had reincarnated countless times and that yes, early on when it was newer, it committed atrocious, selfish acts. But as more lives were experienced it 'grew' - it grew wise, strong, compassionate. This idea of individual growth and development of the soul was/is very important to me. But the theory of 'oneness' destroys that idea.



Originally posted by RRokkyy
Your body dies,your consciousness IF fully enlightened
merges with the infinite consciousness. But for how long?
Eventually it will, it must,return to the lower states of
consciousness.

But how can the same exact piece of 'the infinite all' return to lower states of consciousness if it has merged with infinite consciousness?! That's like pouring a cup of orange juice into the sea and then later scooping a cupful of seawater and expecting your cup to be full of orange juice.



Originally posted by ballsdeep
...a life focused on material pursuits is just as unfulfilling whether you subscribe to these philosophies or not.

I take your point, and yes, I agree it probably does represent the truth. If I didn't think there was some truth to it I wouldn't have bothered starting this thread. As for what you say above, you're right about material pursuits, in a sense. However, if the 'one infinite consciousness' has divided itself into infinite pieces sent to this realm of existence to 'experience everything', then by default it is preferable that some humans do focus on material pursuits, and worse yet - murder, rape and abuse. This theory of 'oneness' legitimises murder, rape and genocide. One person in this thread suggested that those who murder and rape may have separated themselves from the infinite consciousness. A good theory, but does infinite consciousness want to experience EVERYTHING or not? If it does, then the theory does legitimise murder and rape. I'm just having difficulty reconciling that.



posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by CythraulPerhaps a part of me is disgusted by the proposition that, ultimately, I am Tony Blair and he is me; I am Joseph Stalin and he is me; I am Jack the Ripper and he is me; I am the rapist and he is me. I work towards self-betterment whilst others don’t, and yet all that work goes not to the betterment of my eternal consciousness but merely contributes towards the neutral consciousness of the ‘I’ that is all of us. You can’t even call us a ‘combination’ of souls because that again implies the presence of more than one.


My BS detector goes off big time with regard to this idea. It's an excuse for not doing anything. Icke has said "I love you, George Bush." I don't. And neither am I George Bush. Everything is not everything.
I'm sure the bad guys would love for everyone to believe in this.



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