So, we're all Adolf Hitler and he is us!

This may end up being the first ATS post which knowingly cowers from the truth .

Right… I’ve just read this recent thread. I’m also currently reading David Icke’s latest book “Human Race: Get Off Your Knees”. They both say the exact same thing about the true nature of reality and spirit. If I may quote a particular part of 2manyquestions’ post:

“I suppose that this presence is the thing to which many people refer to as "God". I felt a oneness with this being. I finally understood that I was it, it was me, it was you, it was the grass, it was the rock, it was the ant, the bird, the wind, the sky, the earth,.... it was everything. It was love, hate, anger, sadness, it was us. Imagine yourself being cut into a quadrillion pieces, and those individual pieces being able to have experiences of their own, separate from the whole. According to my vision that's what our world is. The world and all of us, we are IT.”

2manyquestions also goes on to say, precisely as David Icke does, that:

“This "physical" world we live in is a mathematical illusion. To help you understand better, it's like an extremely intricate virtual reality program complete with physics assigned to our world, which we are forced to follow.”

Ok, so that’s the basic premise of reality and it seems to be becoming a very popular belief – primarily among truth seekers and what I like to call the ‘post-atheist generation’. In all honesty, it makes total sense to me – it’s as likely to be the ultimate truth as anything else I’ve ever heard. And yet, it leaves me feeling quite cold. Let me explain why:

I’m a spiritual person and I have compassion and empathy for all living beings. I also value my own unique consciousness. I view my consciousness as being accessible in this material body and also in higher levels of existence, but I view it as eternally independent. Spiritual independence may take on a new meaning on higher plains – such as meaning that souls can communicate telepathically and thus know more of one another. I’m all for an interconnectedness, but ‘interconnectedness’ implies the presence of more than one sovereign spirit as opposed to just one single infinite entity.

Perhaps a part of me is disgusted by the proposition that, ultimately, I am Tony Blair and he is me; I am Joseph Stalin and he is me; I am Jack the Ripper and he is me; I am the rapist and he is me. I work towards self-betterment whilst others don’t, and yet all that work goes not to the betterment of my eternal consciousness but merely contributes towards the neutral consciousness of the ‘I’ that is all of us. You can’t even call us a ‘combination’ of souls because that again implies the presence of more than one.

Even 2manyquestions at one point in his/her thread says:

“As strange as it may seem, I actually began to miss my "virtual" life a little, and couldn't wait to return to it so that I could continue.”

I can completely understand that. To know that we only have sovereignty of consciousness in this brief life and then it’s all lost in favour of what I can only refer to as eternal “oblivion”:

–noun
1. the state of being completely forgotten or unknown: aformer movie star now in oblivion.

www.dictionary.com


The ramifications of this are quite enormous:

• No such thing as ‘past lives’ in the meaningful sense (every life ever is our past life and we could not possibly remember or identify with one ‘life’ more than any other, making past-life regression futile).
• The pointlessness of living a good, moral life.
• Undermining the traditional understanding of ‘soul mates’ or ‘an old soul’.
• Destroying the concepts of culture and identity.
• Making spiritual gnosis trivial (if we’re all one ‘force’ then we’re all going to know what the rest of that ‘force’ knows anyway, ultimately. We might as well live for material gain – we might as well live hedonistically and selfishly).


So, to refer back to the title I chose for this thread: what Hitler did wasn’t wrong, it was just a necessary experience of the “all that is”.

Even as I write this, I see the errors in my questioning of this. I see that this probably is true and that it’s probably quite pathetic not to embrace it. And yet I can’t help but feel quite uncomfortable about this ‘truth’. No doubt I will find a way to love the idea by the time this experience in this body ‘dies’ and becomes absorbed into the great, endless oblivion. I hope I do, because right now the prospect feels almost as bleak as if there were a complete lack of afterlife.

I wrote this to just put an alternative opinion out there about this increasingly-popular theory. There are many threads on ATS which essentially boil down to the same revelation and in all of them everyone seems completely overjoyed by the idea. I’m happy for all of you, but I’ve not quite drawn the same conclusions… yet. Perhaps someone can help me feel more comfortable with this, or perhaps others too are less than comfortable with the truth.

David Icke has some interesting theories and I believe some of what he says is probably true. I watched an interview with him from years ago and he actually told the interviewer that he was Jesus. He took a lot of heat for that as well as being ridiculed. With guys like that you have to always keep in mind, that although he seems like a very genuine guy doesn't mean he's right. A lot of his theories are way out there imo, but he's interesting nonetheless.

A couple of things to consider. The Supreme-Spirit is the essence of all things, so it is the essence of you, me, and Hitler. However, the outer shell is the impermanent aspect, the veil that is subject to change. It has limited life, and will eventually die. In that sense, Hitler is dead and has been dead for quite a while. It is the spirit that lives on, not 'Hitler' so to become upset that you are one with Hitler is mistakenly viewing the corruptible body and not the incorruptible soul.

Originally posted by willie9696
David Icke has some interesting theories and I believe some of what he says is probably true. I watched an interview with him from years ago and he actually told the interviewer that he was Jesus. He took a lot of heat for that as well as being ridiculed. With guys like that you have to always keep in mind, that although he seems like a very genuine guy doesn't mean he's right. A lot of his theories are way out there imo, but he's interesting nonetheless.

Im not sure thats correct about David saying he was Jesus, I believe he was going through an immense spiritual transformation at the time, and he told Terry Wogan that he was the son of God but in the context that we are all sons and daughters of God.

I share your concerns and would like to add one. Now I'm all for telepathy, I believe it's already here and always has been but just misunderstood. It has many benefits, such as knowing when someone is lying, that alone would make it worth the while. And ofcourse people would be able to learn at incredible speeds. Just think some of the greates minds have understood something and they can convey that information in a few seconds so they can teach a lot of individuals who then dissect the information alone, going through the same thoughts that ultimately lead to some understanding of higher concepts. Instead of reading which takes a lot longer.

However, humanity has not matured yet, they are like children, there are a lot of issues. Even with the help of a physical body which appears to have been made for us as a safeguard or platform, humans have difficulty communicating with eachother. Telepathy isn't going to make this better, people who communicate in a wrong way now will just continue to do so but in an even more powerful way, physical and nonphysical. It'll basically turn out to be some kind of huge borg collective where the strongest rule the weaker, survival of the fittest, not at all the equality and all the good stuff that the promise of such mental powers suggest.

To shed some light on the dangers I'm referring to, suppose a human is really a spirit controlling a physical body from some other realm. Many instinctively believe that other realm is a shared one, just like they know this physical place and also because of some need to be together. Very few want seperated realms (as in individual spaces, being there alone), each individual existing in an infinite dimension of their own from where they would go through a kind of portal to a shared realm, which is also infinite. People just don't seem to grasp, or want to understand, the concept of 2 infinities or an infinite number of infinities. The problem with just 1 shared realm is that others can directly influence one another without any kind of barrier between them that acts like a filter, also everyone there would have to consider how their actions affect others. While having your own space is where you can make up your own truth and rules, where one can invite others or go to others, there seem to be a lot more choices possible.

I disagree with this premise... we are spiritual beings. Now I am a Christian, you or anybody else may be something else...that's your business.

But I have been around a while and have seen the irony of life, I have seen good kharma come around and i have seen bad kharma go around...

I have seen love change a person 180 degrees...and I have seen hard men cry.

The point is is that this world, this reality is much bigger than you or I. There are forces at work which we can't explain. We all have anecdotal incidents in our lives that we found odd, a coincidence, a just retribution...now who or what caused it is the subject of faith or lack there of.

It is a beautiful world...full of miracles and tragedies, but worthy of the living...

As for Mr. Icke...I don't place too much stock in what he says. I used to find his notions intriguing until I read in one of his books that Willie Nelson was a shapeshifting, reptillian, that ate children... and I am not paraphrasing or exagerating... now that is an illusion of the highest or lowest order. I promptly threw the book away...and I have not concerned myself with anything he has printed since.

I suggest a vacation...go to the mountains or beach...watch the sun come up....maybe look at the moon reflected on the waters.... sit on a pier on a warm sunny day and go crabbing...have a cup of coffee...or a cold beer....is this an illusion...a mathematical matrix? Look at the intricasies of nature and how wonderful it is...gaze at a night time sky...go fall in love. This is a manipulated reality?

You make your reality by making the decisions you make...I seek God's help in it....you seek who you will...I hope it's not mr. Icke.

reply to post by Cythraul


I really hate that type of philosopical mumbo jumbo. I had some idiot in a week long manager's training course try to feed us the bull about no one knows what reality is Yada Yada Ya.

Unfortunately for him there was a 3:30 PM train every day that went passed the window. I told him if reality was an illusion and no one knew what reality was then go lay on the tracks at 3:25 but please write a will in my favor and give me his car keys first.... He got laughed out of the room.

Yeh! Absolutely brilliant! SnF for you! I really intuit that this is how it really is. We create reality via our consciousness. I just started a thread about 2 minutes ago, "Consciousness creates reality" www.abovetopsecret.com... I think we are coming to the same conclusions...NOW... A LOT OF US!
I AM SO BORED, with our current reality, this creation, this 3D experience. I feel trapped. I can't create on the scale at which I am accustomed. I think this means that we have to "hack the program" somehow or bond together, form a union of consciousness for a more desireable outcome. Maybe we can just say, The Creator is me and I want to go back to that level of experience, everything simultaneously. Merge with the ALL.
Namaste

Originally posted by filosophia
A couple of things to consider. The Supreme-Spirit is the essence of all things, so it is the essence of you, me, and Hitler. However, the outer shell is the impermanent aspect, the veil that is subject to change. It has limited life, and will eventually die. In that sense, Hitler is dead and has been dead for quite a while. It is the spirit that lives on, not 'Hitler' so to become upset that you are one with Hitler is mistakenly viewing the corruptible body and not the incorruptible soul.

You're absolutely right. Please bear in mind that my choice of thread title was intentionally 'sensational' - a slight, light-hearted overexaggeration to draw attention to an otherwise 'heavy' read. But what you say doesn't change the fact that my spirit - your spirit - everyone's spirit, is also Hitler's spirit. It also doesn't change the fact that what he did wasn't technically 'wrong' in any way from the point of view of 'infinite consciousness' (as Icke calls it) - just another experience of the one and only conscious soul that really exists beyond this illusion.

Originally posted by HUMBLEONE
Yeh! Absolutely brilliant! SnF for you! I really intuit that this is how it really is.

Thank you, but I think you should be starring and flagging the thread I linked to at the beginning of this one - not this one! This isn't my theory, I'm not revealing it and nor am I entirely comfortable with it (yet). But I'm glad it brings you peace.

I wouldn't believe anything that David Icke says, he delusional and insane. All the high ranking members of society are shape shifting aliens. Come on, that's more absurd than scientology

Here's a video that debunks some of the things he says



Thread it was from David Icke Debunked (New 2.5 hour documentary)

Originally posted by Griffo
I wouldn't believe anything that David Icke says, he delusional and insane.

I thank you for the video and will check it out. I'm no disciple of his - although some of what he says makes a lot of sense.

But forget I even mentioned him in my OP - the theory he subscribes to is not new, it's not his and as I said, it's becoming increasingly popular. There are lots of threads on ATS proposing the same spiritual 'truth'. And I do think there's something to it.

You may be Hitler, but you are also Albert Einstein, Mother Teresa, and every other person who has, or has had life. "There but for the Grace of God go I" I believe this is the path to understanding, if you are able to truely walk in anothers shoes, then you realize, given their life experiences, you would make the same choices, and take the same actions. In this way it is impossible to condemn or judge another. S&F

reply to post by Cythraul


This is not a complete virtual reality, it is a partial V.R.

There is Hitler and then their is YOU. Both are manifestations of the divine being we call God. Both are performing God's will, to remind us that we are manifestations of him. The further one is from remembering this, the more harshly they treat others. They cannot see God in them.

Our purpose here is to see God. We are supposed to dwell with God. He has always been right in front of us in everything that is this existence. He is within everyone we will ever meet. He is within YOU.

YOU are a Child of God.

If you see God in everyone, it makes it impossible to cast judgement on anyone. They are all manifestations of God and to judge them is to judge God. We are supposed to love them unconditionally. By loving them we help them see the God within themselves that they do not see. Once they see it within themselves, they see it in others.

Imagine a world where all loved each other and did what we could to help each thrive. Sound like heaven?

We have been walking in Heaven our whole lives. Most do not even see it.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Cythraul
But what you say doesn't change the fact that my spirit - your spirit - everyone's spirit, is also Hitler's spirit. It also doesn't change the fact that what he did wasn't technically 'wrong' in any way from the point of view of 'infinite consciousness' (as Icke calls it) - just another experience of the one and only conscious soul that really exists beyond this illusion.

Well this is a loaded question because of all the propaganda surrounding Hitler, since Hitler's underlings were more psychotic than Hitler himself. So let's use someone like Himmler, who enjoyed doing psychological tests on people. His actions were the result of a deluded ego that had lost touch with his higher self. So in a sense you could say that Himmler didn't have a soul, or more specifically he forgot he had one, in that sense someone who is aware of his soul has a lot of differences with someone who is a nihilistic demon. The spirit precedes physical manifestation, so it's not "Hitler's spirit" it's the Spirit's Hitler.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Also I think some have the wrong idea about God, not that I know all, but I do know some things...

If you give your life to God, You get "filled" with the Holy Spirit. Then he dwells "in" you. If you keep rejecting Him like Hitler, He will reject you. Jesus died for all, but NOT all will be saved.

When you invite God to be your Savior and your Lord, He will make you a new creation.

Yes we are all childern of God. Some good and some not so good. Does God still love them ... YES

Will they go to heaven some day.... probably not, BUT God does forgive if only you ask. He will give grace and will forgive if only you ask...

As long as you breathe, you still have time...Just Ask Him.

Oh and NO... YOU ARE NOT GOD!!! There is but ONE GOD... and it aint you...

reply to post by IAMIAM


Our job is not to see god, it is to know god. If i see god then that is two, i plus god. Thinking in this way separates us from god and this is the problem of mankind. Born into a dream of separation.
Our job is not to love others unconditionally. Firstly, we must love thyself. Know thyself.
This experience, this existence, this life is all for you, it is all you, the one universal consciousness.

Originally posted by Nightfury
Oh and NO... YOU ARE NOT GOD!!! There is but ONE GOD... and it aint you...

Describe your God to me my friend. I am interested in knowing if we see the same God.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Our job is not to see god, it is to know god. If i see god then that is two, i plus god. Thinking in this way separates us from god and this is the problem of mankind. Born into a dream of separation.
Our job is not to love others unconditionally. Firstly, we must love thyself. Know thyself.
This experience, this existence, this life is all for you, it is all you, the one universal consciousness.

Have you seen God? How can you KNOW God if you have not seen God?

Seeing IS knowing.

Originally posted by thedoctorswife

Originally posted by willie9696
David Icke has some interesting theories and I believe some of what he says is probably true. I watched an interview with him from years ago and he actually told the interviewer that he was Jesus. He took a lot of heat for that as well as being ridiculed. With guys like that you have to always keep in mind, that although he seems like a very genuine guy doesn't mean he's right. A lot of his theories are way out there imo, but he's interesting nonetheless.

Im not sure thats correct about David saying he was Jesus, I believe he was going through an immense spiritual transformation at the time, and he told Terry Wogan that he was the son of God but in the context that we are all sons and daughters of God.

Yes my apologies, when Wogan asked him if it was true that he claims to be the son of God and he said yes, and after the laughter stopped he said that 2000 years ago they laughed at Jesus for claiming to be the Son of God. The context to me seems to be he believed at that time that he was in fact the son of God. No doubt he was going through something at the time but that's a pretty big statement.