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Even if we accept that actual real crime rate is lower in muslim countries (but thats heavily disputed, since reported crime rate is obviously a function of real crime rate AND willingness to report crimes, quality of PD work, corruption etc.. you cannot derive real crime rates only from reported crime rates if other variables it depends on differ considerably), it wont contradict my point at all, my point is about cultural support, not actual prevalence of murders.
And since it is not a crime to kill women engaging in adultery in these countries, and honour killings are also practically legal there, they wont even make it into the reported crime statistics most of the time.
Yes, I claim that muslim culture (at least in Egypt, Jordan, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria..) supports the murder of women for trivial "crimes" such as adultery, and supports honour killings.
How does the fact that these things happen in all countries dispute my point? I just dont see the connection. Prevalence is absolutely irrelevant, reaction of the majority in the society is. Even if we take it ad absurdum - if in the western world there were for example 100 women killed every month for adultery by jealous husbands (acting alone), but almost all other members of the society would be shocked by it when they hear about the killing and and condemned it, and in the muslim world there were 50 women killed for adultery every month, but this was praised and done with the support of the majority and local leaders, are you honestly going to claim that their culture is not worse? The number of killings does not matter, only cultural opinion does, when one talks about culture.
Because we have official opinion polls from Pew Research Center (The Pew Global Attitudes Project) saying the thing, and that is a very reliable source.
Please, if they honestly think they can state that '82% of Pakistanis think this' as a fact, without even mentioning their sample size, then they are hardly a reliable source. Have they interviewed even 1% of the Pakistani population? 1% of the Egyptian population? No, it doesn't appear that they have. They probably only asked villagers, avoiding anywhere a bit more civilised like Karachi, Islamabad or Cairo where perspectives will vary.
Pakistan 2,000 ±3.0 April 13 – April 28 Face-to-face Disproportionately urban
To attempt to state that 82% of all Pakistanis would commit or condone honour killing is absolutely disgusting imo, total nonsense.
Its interesting and I would say very touchy as well as most recent of the discussions. While most of us advocate the moderate nature of Islam, there are however, certain very clear messages which are very loud and clear in Islam.
- Murder for murder, hand cutting of thief, stoning for Zina.
- Message to non Muslim states send was "1. Accept Islam, Or 2. Pay tax and become part of Islamic State OR3. Get ready to fight war.
- There are some inherent clear strict rules of the life about which there is no flexibility like Haram and Hallal, etc.
Having said that I would strongly advocate that Islam still remains to be moderate in nature.
Dude, how do you not understand this? I don't have to prove anything - you're the one making the claim.
Sample design: Multi-stage cluster sample of all four provinces stratified by province (the FATA/FANA areas, Azad Jammu and Kashmir were excluded for security reasons as were areas of instability in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa [formerly the North-West Frontier Province] and Baluchistan – roughly 16% of the population) with disproportional sampling of the urban population
Mode: Face-to-face adults 18 plus
Languages: Urdu, Punjabi, Pashto, Sindhi, Saraiki, Balochi, Hindko
Fieldwork dates: April 13 – April 28, 2010
Sample size: 2,000
Margin of Error: ±3.0 percentage points
Representative: Disproportionately urban, (the sample is 55% urban, Pakistan’s population is 33% urban). Sample covers roughly 84% of the adult population.
Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by arollingstone
Trust me, I would be glad to be proven wrong, but the facts are clear. Substantial portion, often majority, of muslims in their home countries are violent brainwashed extremists. You can read some muslim forums on the internet, if you dont believe it. I had trouble to believe it, too. Unfortunately, the notion of extremist minority and peaceful majority is a lie.