No joke - US "moderate Muslim" man beheads wife: The Mo Hussan trial.

Originally posted by fooks

Originally posted by Liquesence

Originally posted by halfoldman
I mean if this is true, then it's surely a bit silly to ask why there are so many anti-Islamic threads.
Sure, all people have killers, but that method of beheading seems somehow cultural.
And all over the world stories of stonings, judicial rapes, incest, misogyny and intolerance are beginning to outweigh the evils of any other group. Is this just propaganda?
In any case, perhaps it's all just a hoax.

Perhaps because this is what the Western media choose to continuously show in order to push and to maintain the anti-Islam hate agenda. From a different perspective, if another country, or culture, showed the things that Americans constantly do, from mothers and fathers shooting and drowning their kids, to husbands and wives massacring their spouses while also going through divorce, to the other number of horrible things that we constantly see on the news, then they might have the same type of biased perspective of us as we create and maintain of them.

Propaganda? Yes, mostly, I think. It's meant to dehumanize the other culture(s), and justify our own actions via ignorance.

edit on 17-2-2011 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)

really? whack jobs against religious nut jobs?


the law is about intent.

if i kill your family, would you humanize me?

I am not talking about, and this has nothing to do with, intent; nor does the law play any relevance other than the fact that a crime has been committed.

I think, however, that you miss the point. It's about cultural/religious dehumanization through the eyes of the perceiving culture. When a fringe christian cult or sect kills people, attention is brought that the group was "different." When a muslim commits a crime (as in the OP), attention is brought that not only was it a Muslim, but a moderate modern, with emphasis of both moderate and Muslim. The fact that the person is a muslim has not so much to do with intent, it's just a biased way of explaining something to reflect a certain cultural bias/agenda. It's not about humanizing murderers, but about dehumanizing "those not like us" (whether murderers within our own culture or another) just like the Spanish and the settlers of this country dehumanized the Native Americans, (some) slave owners dehumanized the slaves, etc.

It's propaganda because of the emphasis the perceiving culture places on the "other," which then aims to shape the perceiving culture's perception against another.

ETA:

Everyone is missing the point.

When someone in our society, someone who happens to be a Christian, kills someone, it's like, "oh, no, that's horrible, what happened to him to cause him to do such a thing." But when a Muslim kills someone, it's "Oh, that dirty barbaric Muslim slaughtered his wife; Muslims are messed up, crazy murderers, it must be their religion." That is what the cultural propaganda has done to shape cultural thinking.

And that's all i have to say on that matter.

reply to post by Maslo


no offense meant dude but check this link out:

www.nationmaster.com...

these is the chart of countries where most crimes are committed. I was hoping as you've said it would be in a "muslim country" possibly in the Middle East who are living in the "Dark Ages: but I was wrong. Guess who's number one and two?

reply to post by halfoldman


Oh brother, here we go again. His religion and ethnic background clearly had nothing to do with his actions - the media just prefers to focus on stories where Muslims and ethnic minorities such as African Americans (though the latter is seen as 'so 90s' these days) commit crimes more than those where other nationalities do, not only do these stories sell but they fit a certain political agenda running in parallel. They need to turn everyone off Muslims at the moment because they feel it will justify their previous actions and also provides the general public with an identifiable 'enemy' to be afraid of - a precursor to introducing extremely debatable procedures, bills and laws that would otherwise incite riots.

This is proven in a great deal of documentaries, look at Michael Moore's interview with the Producer of COPS in Bowling for Columbine as a good example. What was the point of them even mentioning that he was a 'moderate Muslim'? They want to imply that now its not just the fundamentalists that are 'savages', but all Muslims. They fail to mention that white Christians, atheists, whateverists murder their wives all the times, women murder their husbands and many white Americans, Brits, Europeans etc. murder their children and then commit suicide to punish their wives and vice versa - isn't this just as, if not even more, savage than this example?

Don't believe the hype.

reply to post by Prokopio

Good points.
However:

Have you ever seen a headline which says " LUTHERAN ED GEIN MURDERS TWO PEOPLE"? Or..."CHRISTIAN OJ SIMPSON KILLS FAMILY"? Or..."PROTESTANT U.S. BOMBS AFGHANISTANS AND KILLS HUNDREDS OF CIVILIANS"

Except for the Ed Gein serial killer, yeah I actually have heard US culture framed as "WASP" (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) culture, and that their religion led to wars, the slaughter of the Native Americans, their slavery and racism (which according to the race card theory still causes US black crimes like that of the OJ Simpson murder), and all the evils imaginable blamed on their Protestant religion.
Yeah, I've heard it, and in some cases it may be true.
However, as a white gay male, which culture would I choose?
The US with its "ghastly" Protestants (LOL), or Pakistan with its "peace-loving" Muslims (LOL)?
Hell we have a pretty old Muslim community here, and most of them wouldn't even like to live in where this guy comes from.
As a student I believed my own culture was the most wicked that ever existed (white Protestant).
Now I don't buy it anymore.
If those Muslims feel they are being misrepresented, then it their duty to convince their fellow Muslims to behave like modern world-citizens - it is not anybody else's problem to fix their image disaster.
The Americans stood up when they felt a bad leader compromised them.
Not always very many, but they sure did.
Now let all the Muslim leaders and clerics stand up and say they ban all honor killings.
Fat chance!

reply to post by Liquesence


i didn't miss any point,

the dirtbag cut his wifes head off. sure lots of murderers do that

but he did it in accordance of religious beliefs.


seems like you missed the point. besides, whack job white guys do it after they are f;n dead!!


what part of scary ass mofo's u don;t understand?

Originally posted by Prokopio
reply to post by Maslo

 

no offense meant dude but check this link out:

www.nationmaster.com...

these is the chart of countries where most crimes are committed. I was hoping as you've said it would be in a "muslim country" possibly in the Middle East who are living in the "Dark Ages: but I was wrong. Guess who's number one and two?

I will just copy what I wrote in post on the first page:

It is not whether they do bad things, that happens more or less everywhere. It is whether the deed is culturally accepted what matters, and thats what sets apart good cultures from bad ones. Killing of adulterers happens al over the world, but in some coutries the murderer is shunned by society and punished, in other countries ovewrwhelming majority supports such acts as a right thing to do. That is the important distinction.

Also, your link is about total number of crimes, but that is meaningles. Crimes per capita is important:

www.nationmaster.com...

reply to post by halfoldman


In the most basic terms, what you have here is a man who murdered his wife/girlfriend because she was divorcing/leaving him. Unfortunately this is a too common scenario that plays out all over the world regardless of cultural heritage, ethnicity or socioeconomic background.

Drew Peterson
Robert Blake
O.J. Simpson
Raven Abaroa

The fact that you are turning this tragedy into an inflammatory Muslim-bashing hate thread is both disingenuous and bigoted.

Where have I turned it into a Muslim-bashing hate thread?
I made sure to mention that all cultures have their scandals, and even when referring to honor killing law, I have termed it as "tribal law" (never essential Islamic law).
Honor killing was mentioned in the court case, and otherwise I responded to my limited ability.
I also mentioned US scandals, and also South African problems.
I have always balanced even the most cynical statements.
I said on page 1 that all cultures have two paths, and never do all people take the dark path.
However, the methodology of this crime is hard to separate from the culture (and even sidebars in some of videos show links to many similar stories).
But I guess one must be totally politically correct, and a total cultural relativist.
Or even better, say how much more advanced any culture is over WASP culture.
Bash the whites and the Christians and the Americans.
Then it would be OK, I guess.

Originally posted by Maslo

Also, your link is about total number of crimes, but that is meaningles. Crimes per capita is important:

www.nationmaster.com...

Your list isn't all that different - Muslim countries sit at the bottom of this list as well. This kind of contradicts your own point.

Edit: And the statistics you provided earlier about 'Muslim opinions' were part of a ridiculous survey - how on earth can you apply these findings to such large populations, with such a diverse range of cultural perspectives and interpretations of Islam? Very biased source, they state their findings as facts - they clearly only sampled people that they believed would provide the desired feedback. Additionally, if Hamas are extremist then what are the Israeli government? Ultra-super-duper-extremist?

reply to post by arollingstone

Your list isn't all that different - Muslim countries sit at the bottom of this list as well. This kind of contradicts your own point.

Since my point was that crime rate is not very important, my point still stands. Even in dark ages crime rate may have been lower than today. Also, read this from under the graph:

DEFINITION: Note: Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population.

reply to post by arollingstone


This was my point, copying for the second time:

It is not whether they do bad things, that happens more or less everywhere. It is whether the deed is culturally accepted what matters, and thats what sets apart good cultures from bad ones. Killing of adulterers happens al over the world, but in some coutries the murderer is shunned by society and punished, in other countries ovewrwhelming majority supports such acts as a right thing to do. That is the important distinction.

Originally posted by Maslo
Since my point was that crime rate is not very important, my point still stands. Even in dark ages crime rate may have been lower than today. Also, read this from under the graph:

DEFINITION: Note: Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population.

Oh please, that's desperate! I got your point - it's very well 'veiled' (you should be able to appreciate that pun?). So to summarise - now you're implying that Muslims commit the most crimes but there's no evidence to prove it, not even the alleged evidence you submitted earlier, because Muslim countries have ineffective police and populations that do not report crime? Utter speculative nonsense. Very, very weak.

reply to post by halfoldman


He should be beheaded aswell Save the wasted money to process him.......

Originally posted by halfoldman
Where have I turned it into a Muslim-bashing hate thread?
I made sure to mention that all cultures have their scandals, and even when referring to honor killing law, I have termed it as "tribal law" (never essential Islamic law).

We are all aware that honor killings occur be it husband against wife or family member against female relative.

But that is not how you approached the creation of this thread. Your emphasis has been decidedly placed on a "moderate Muslim" man murdering his wife. Why would you choose to do that unless your intent was to incite Muslim-bashing? (And, yes, bashing any group based on their ethnicity is considered a form of hate speech.)

I also mentioned US scandals, and also South African problems.
I have always balanced even the most cynical statements.

Yes, mentioned in passing but only in the sense that "yeah, men in other countries murder their wives, too." That's hardly balancing at all. In fact, it's more of a light sprinkling in an attempt to justify the true intent of the thread which is to bait others into bashing Muslims.

If you truly wanted to provide balance you could have created a thread that covered the societal phenomena of men who murder their wives or girlfriends under the misguided territorial pretense of "If I can't have them then no one else will either."

I said on page 1 that all cultures have two paths, and never do all people take the dark path.
However, the methodology of this crime is hard to separate from the culture (and even sidebars in some of videos show links to many similar stories).
But I guess one must be totally politically correct, and a total cultural relativist.

If one were to take a closer look at the number of Muslim-based honor killings that take place on American soil and compare that to the number of overall men who kill their wives or girlfriends -- chances are the ratio for honor killings would be much smaller.

Better yet, it could easily be argued that men who murder their wives/girlfriends -- regardless of their ethnicity or culture -- do so because they are possessive, territorial or jealous are in some twisted way restoring their sense of honor (male ego).

In short, it just isn't a Muslim thing.

reply to post by CX

Yes, that seems to be exactly the intent. And following through on this thought, this is exactly why you will very rarely see the title of a thread that says "No joke - US "moderate Christian" man decapitates wife..." Except maybe now in a few Muslim countries as a kind of blowback. A headline or title like this leads the reader to exactly what you want them to discuss and think.

Crazy is crazy, no matter what the cause, and no matter what the attempts in some media are to make these linkages. To their credit, many of the real and more responsible news outlets reporting this story did not make sensationalistic headlines out of this. They may have mentioned in a more sane and non-sensationalistic way that he was Pakistani or happened to have founded a Muslim-American radio station to help fight stereotypes, but they did not capitalize or sensationalize it further. They reported the news. Did you happen to notice this too?

reply to post by arollingstone

Oh please, that's desperate! I got your point - it's very well 'veiled' (you should be able to appreciate that pun?). So to summarise - now you're implying that Muslims commit the most crimes but there's no evidence to prove it, not even the alleged evidence you submitted earlier, because Muslim countries have ineffective police and populations that do not report crime? Utter speculative nonsense. Very, very weak.

No, my point is that number of crimes reported is not important, but cultural support for crimes is. I never said anywhere that muslims commit more crimes than other people. Seriously, this is not a hard concept to grasp. Maybe if I copy it for the fourth time, you will understand?

It is not whether they do bad things, that happens more or less everywhere. It is whether the deed is culturally accepted what matters, and thats what sets apart good cultures from bad ones. Killing of adulterers happens al over the world, but in some coutries the murderer is shunned by society and punished, in other countries ovewrwhelming majority supports such acts as a right thing to do. That is the important distinction.

I think the whole lot of the Islams are mentally unbalanced, but this goes for any "Religious" Freaks, they are all mentally unbalanced a little bit. I mean those that try to cram it down everyone's throats and believe their way is the only way!

I've read the Quran and in my opinion everyone should. Here's a good quote to help explain how this type of behavior is rationalized.

Yusuf Ali (8:12) - Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

They have a lot more good advice like that in their holy books. Of course the Jewish Torah has similar advice as well. I never read anything in the gospels that Jesus advocated this sort of violence though.

Originally posted by Maslo

No, my point is that number of crimes reported is not important, but cultural support for crimes is. I never said anywhere that muslims commit more crimes than other people. Seriously, this is not a hard concept to grasp. Maybe if I copy it for the fourth time, you will understand?

Dude, copying and pasting your quote over and over as if nobody understands you is just condescending and doesn't prove anything, I understood the first time I read it - you are merely deflecting from the issue. I totally addressed your point. You’re a big fan of self-quotes so here’s one of mine:

So to summarise - now you're implying that Muslims commit the most crimes but there's no evidence to prove it, not even the alleged evidence you submitted earlier, because Muslim countries have ineffective police and populations that do not report crime? Utter speculative nonsense. Very, very weak.

– see? I understood. You clearly implied that Muslims commit a larger amount of crime than your statistics present, based on an opinion that they culturally support certain crimes. Nonsense.

If you are not in fact saying that Muslims specifically allow each other to commit crimes more than other cultures, then what culture are you referring to? Why would you make that statement, the one that you are clearly very proud of, in this thread? Be specific pleiz.

reply to post by maria_stardust

Actually if a Christian murdered in forms inspired by his or her religion I would call that a "fundamentalist" killing.
In my opinion most Christians are personally moderate in their faith. So such a killing would be a fundamentalist aberration.
Now somebody who professes to be the moderate Muslim image-builder with a TV station already found it necessary to call himself "moderate". Why is that?
That is the main title I got when I Googled the case.

Crimes of passion do happen everywhere, but cutting off people's heads in a pre-meditated murder is not something I see anywhere outside certain regions. SA Muslims certainly never did this.

Oh please, it's plain for all to see that this man's culture was a central influence to the sickening extent of his crime.

Why anybody wants to deny or obfuscate that plain fact is unclear.
Without honesty no culture can advance or improve, and culture is dynamic.
What happens to women in these cultures is barbaric and inexcusable.
There are more than enough resources showing women with their faces burnt with acid and fire. Their ears, noses, features and eyes burnt away.
You cannot convince me for one second that such cultures are better than the US, especially as you have no statistics from a culture where women are ciphers.
This is defending the indefensible, and that trend is highly concerning.