Rape in the US military.... Those left behind strike back

Originally posted by BAMstomper
Rape Lawsuit Vs Military and DOD

Rape victims fighting for the justice the deserve.

here's a link to the actual news story

Did Pentagon turn blind eye to rape??

reply to post by ripcontrol


I have a question, but please believe me when I say it is an honest question, I know nothing of military or military training. (accept what I see on TV and I'm sure it's not that accurate) I am not passing any opinion on the victims or perpertrators.

You seem to have background in Military. So I'd like to ask you;

Are women not trained in combat and hand to hand like their male counterparts?

What would happen to a soilder (male or female), who hit a commanding officer or rank above them if they were defending themselves?

Again, I'm sure this next question will show my ignorance, but I was also wondering
Doesn't every soilder go thru basic training? Are they not taught to fight and defend themselves no matter what job they will do in the Military?

reply to post by Iseladore


no not every person in the military goes through hand to hand combat training...

nor are you taught that...

Even those that receive it have a secondary problem... the whole act is violation of trust... This is part of a mentality issue here...

it is an advantage those who prey on others take advantage of.... Before the warnings can go up in your head most of the attackers have reduced the victim to a level unable to respond....

I have seen this time and time again...

And when they report it... they find out that the commands do not want to hear any part of it... It damages the commands reputation and embarrasses the CO...



At this point I would advise all females and males who have this issue to report it not to there commands but to the local PD...

It would not allow them to bury it...

When you go to the Public ER... get a copy of the report and mail it to your senator and to savy....


to sum it up

no not everyone receives training...

most perps disable their victims with surprise

then the commands one and all bury it...

Originally posted by ripcontrol
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

I respectfully disagree with you...

I is not a matter of men just following instinct

It is part of the problem in todays military...

DISCIPLINE is not there.....What you seem to misunderstand is that the description you gave has that misunderstanding.... The personnel do not have a say in how they behave or interact...


Any of these acts are the direct responsibility of the leaders... The captain is either in charge of it or we get a new captain...

edit on 19-10-2011 by ripcontrol because: one behavior to control thm all

Your kidding me right?

I agree discipline is a huge part of the problem but you can't hang this all on the men in charge of grunts who do this type of thing.

If it were a Captain who did this would you then say it's the majors fault? If it was a Major would you then say it's the Colonels fault?

You are not accounting for personal discipline of the serviceman himself. The serviceman is the Only person who can stop his or her actions.

By saying, " The personnel do not have a say in how they behave or interact...
" You are absolving the perpetrator of the crime and slapping the victim in the face. The person responsible for the rape is responsible for his own actions.

I never said anything about instinct. Trained killers learn to like killing. They learn to like being the Big Tough Guy and like to have power over their opposite. These rapists do not do this by instinct. They do it willingly, wantingly, to enjoy the rape and power trip, the power over the other person. It's not instinct, it's a choice made with full awareness.

This behavior is learned through the training servicemen get.

bamstomper left me logged on and posted.... I am on the dinosaur...


I apologize over this...

This is an issue she cares about and is why she is on ats at all...

reply to post by Iseladore


I can't speak for the other branches, but Marines (Males and Females) all go through the same basic training. However males and females are train separately. They do learn some very basic hand to hand combat. But the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) is flawed. Once you reach the fleet not all commands have people trained to teach the skills needed to maintain what was taught in boot camp. Also they tend to focus more on power than proper technique. This leads to ineffective counters and strikes. I know several people injured due to this. Another thing that is lacking is that most non-feild commands don't set up the time to make sure their people are up on their quals in their hand to hand training. As in many forms of martial arts you need consistency and discipline. You will eventually forget how to counter a move or your response time will be slower than you attacker, which is very dangerous. How do they expect some one to counter an enemy with a knife if the last time they where train was 3 yrs ago in boot camp? This falls on staff NCOs and Officers who's job it is to take care of their subordinates.

With that said, most rapes in the military are blitz attacks. aka they didn't see their attacker coming. I know several who were raped that fought like hell and still where over powered by sheer force and/or numbers. I have heard of several horror stories of both MALES and FEMALES that were raped that I can not discuss due to them being T&C violations.

Hope that helps answer your question.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I am not kidding

And I am not absolving the enlisted or lower level command...

It is hard for most people to understand this ....

The Captain/ Colonel Outranks the Lt.Commander/Major... I was referring to the naval ranks... not the Lt / captain(o-3) ranks

with this added in.. the Captain(and Colonel) is 100% responsible for everything that takes place under his command...

The Command level has actually issued exact regs on all behaviors... From how you brush your teeth, tie your shows, and when you are happy....

The levels of responsibility is as follows...

The first is what you said ... a personal level...

Next is the person in charge of them... Other then just their own personal responsibility....they are 100% responsible for the people under them and their actions...

Rinse and repeat.... from the the lowliest e-1's all the way up the chain to POTUS them self... this includes the nco's, warrant officers, lower level officers, and Generals/Admirals...

It is called the command tree and you have to know where you are in it in case those above you die...or those below you die...

I am accounting for the individual serviceman's discipline... By command theory, application, and current DoD rules the CO of the area command is 100% responsible for their personnel....

It is a lack of DISCIPLINE...

No the service person is not the only one who can stop their action....

As I said I completely and respectfully disagree...

As I outlined here
reply to post by ripcontrol


Sun Tzu put it best..

If I explain it once and it is not understood , it is my fault

If I explain it twice and it is not followed, I discipline.. by symbolically if not actually rolling the heads of those not following clear orders...

The order is...

Zero tolerance towards sexual harassment

Rape is included...

Per sun tzu and all other good leaders it is time heads roll...

reply to post by ripcontrol


Very nice explanation.

You have my wheels turning a bit.

reply to post by milkyway12


thank you...

I hope you did read my other post...

reply to post by ripcontrol


I believe I actually worded the process better....

a lot better...

I did want add another facet to this...

the Expense of these actions...

Ill let who ever is reading outline their own numbers...

Start with the number of incidents...

cost per treatment

Post career cost out of the VA's pocket...(any claims are taking seriously and treated for the after affects)


this is millions of dollars... potentially billions...


I see it as a discipline issue.... pure and simple.... The men and women do not need to like me or love me... they will however respect me and show my rank respect, my co's, and thus the branch of military I belong to...

If my commanding officer gives an order I do not like I am not paid like my orders... I am paid to follow them... (Note the UCMJ does outline illegal orders as does several training manuals)

If the person next to me is white, black, Asian, or Hispanic it does not matter what my feelings towards race are...

If the person next to me is mormon, jewish, catholic, pagan, satanist, islamic, atheist, or any other religious view it does not matter what my feelings towards religions are

If the person next to me is Lesbian, Gay, Bi, or Transexual it does not matter what my feelings towards sexual orientation are...

If the person next to me is easy (please insert all derogatory words here ... t and c will not let me list them), a player, a wallflower, or celibate it does not matter what my feelings are about their level of sexual activity

Why does it not matter.... Easy I gave my word to protect and defend... It is at the end of the day my personal word of honor... So if I am in command of you I will take full responsibility for everything and protect you above any abilities I thought I may have possessed because I gave my word.

In conclusion

I will follow the LAWFULLY given orders.... (please note the first general order of a sentry)

Please again if you really are an officer you have a lot of power...use it....

Such acts are a breakdown of great order and discipline....