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Should the hoax forum be called the 'controversial claims' forum?

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posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 06:29 PM
and members still allowed to post and express an opinion/use stars/flags?

becuase labelling something a hoax usually involves someone making an opinion or judgment about the poster or content that others in the forum might disagree with.

if you label it a hoax and ban further discussion and debate; isn't it putting your own views onto others and telling them what to think?

i've come across threads in the hoax forum where i didnt agree they should be called a hoax.

its strange having someone else's opinion put on you.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 06:36 PM
reply to post by rapunzel222

Interesting idea, and I like the way you explain it, but sometimes a hoax is just a hoax.

Case in point: The recent thread in which someone wanted to see if they could convince ATS members that the moon was a UFO, sucking clouds into itself. That was deliberate.

A hoax by any other name, is still a hoax.

Controversial claims typically go in the gray area, or skunkworks.

Not to poo your idea. It's actually good, and I do like the part about leaving them open. Sometimes follow-up chats about the hoax is fun.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 06:40 PM
I agree. The term Hoax to me means that someone knowingly posted false and missleading information, trying to pass it off as fact/truth when knowing full well it wasn't real.

To be labled a hoaxer, someone should bring irrifutable proof that what you say isnt true.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 06:44 PM
reply to post by rapunzel222

I agree with ladyinwaiting. Skunk works and the Gray forum are specific areas for controversial subjects.

A hoax is a hoax. Oftentimes, hoaxes get thrown in the bin after being under staff review or it has clearly been put apart by members.

Who takes the final decision? Mods. Seems fair to me.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 06:47 PM
You have to draw the line somewhere.
No matter how well proven the hoax is, there's always someone who still believes it.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 06:52 PM

Originally posted by subject x
You have to draw the line somewhere.
No matter how well proven the hoax is, there's always someone who still believes it.

Always. You can find the string, find the puppet, find the garbage can lid, find the entire smoking gun and there will still be people who say, "I believe!" and be nasty about it. I see no reason to sugar coat it in some sort of politically correct rhetoric. You can say "sanitation engineer" all you want, but the guy is still a garbage man. Get over it or move on.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 06:55 PM
For the most part I agree with the hoax forum, but I urge everyone to review this thread placed in the hoax forum

I believe it should not be labeled a hoax, it is a disservice to the information present to it. If anything the thread should be allowed to be edited with any misinformation removed, but I don't think there is any misinformation. I would however like for people to discuss it, but because of the hoax label people avoid it like the MSM avoids Ron Paul. Oh...zinger

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 09:12 PM
I have often thought about this very same thing. I actually have a thread in the hoax bin, which is not actually a hoax: ats thread

People still participate in it somewhat, but its just a general conversation abut other hoaxes. It was moved there from Gen chit chat I think. The only difference between the two is there can be no flags in the hoax bin. Posts and stars are still functioning though.

Skunk works and Gray area and both for highly speculative topics, well more speculative than alot of the ATS forums that is. I always thought it was reserved for 'confirmed' hoaxes, or info from confirmed hoaxers such as Faal.

The question i have is why are some threads trashed entirely for being hoax-y but some are moved to the hoax forum and still discussed?

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 10:24 PM
No a hoax forum is absolutely needed because there are a lot of hoaxers out there who get their jollies by fooling you. To me any photo/video/audio that comes to ats should be moved into hoax automatically and you must prove its authenticity before it is removed from the Hoax bin.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 10:27 PM
reply to post by rapunzel222

Couldn't agree with you more and very well put

As for the thread Ladyinwaiting is referring to, I have to respectfully disagree slightly, which is sort of what this is about - a matter of opinion. Yes, I think most are convinced that he was photographing the moon however I personally wasn't convinced that the person was deliberately "lying"...I think he could have honestly thought that he saw what he said he saw. You can pretty much prove that the pics are a result of anomalies with the camera however you cannot prove the man's heart/motivation based solely on the fact that he posted errant information. Plus they banned him so he cannot even respond anymore to the ongoing discussion...

I am really not comfortable at all with someone telling someone else what they can or cannot discuss...we are all free to move along if we find a thread disagreeable.

posted on Feb, 16 2011 @ 11:25 PM
i also read the moon thread and he struck me as genuinely believing he saw something weird.

which he may have done altho it didnt show in his photo really.

i think it was a bit of a harsh call as none of us were present with him to really know what he saw.

i read this book by childress about vimana (ancient ufos in india) and in the sanskrit texts they describe their capabilities as including disguising themselves as a cloud (he said it was 'sucking the clouds into it') and looking like starry sky etc.

i've seen a supposed 'star' behaving very strangely and i just wonder if it's a good idea to label it a hoax when no one can really verify it or not. as you say - matter of opinion by the mods.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 01:39 AM
reply to post by rapunzel222

Problem here is that everything can be deconstructed into an opinion with enough airy fairy thinking. Should have to prove reality every time a hoax appears? I think it would just create a troll forum. Call it "under the bridge" perhaps.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 05:14 AM
Well , I think this is an interesting point. I think it may be the case however, that rather than re-naming the Hoax Forum entirely, it may be worthwhile to seperate the Hoax Forums content, into blantant hoaxes (of which there are a massive amount) and the sorts of interesting contraversial content that you are thinking about.
The thing is, there must always be a straight up hoax forum, for hundreds of great reasons, but mostly because without a Hoax bin, we would have no where to automaticaly send information provided by Sorcha Faal, or however you spell the liars name.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 02:04 PM
reply to post by rapunzel222

You're a little pissed that your Alien Vampire Shapeshifting YouTube video got put in the HOAX bin aren't you?

Just typing that puts a grin on my face. You'll soon learn that using compressed, artifact-filled YouTube videos as evidence of shapeshifters is frowned upon by anyone with a set of eyes and any knowledge of digital transmission and compression. Couple that with the fact it's filmed on a handy-cam filming a TV screen and you have a recipe for disaster.

Personally I fully support the use of the HOAX forum with the restrictions it has - it not only keeps the crap out of the site but it shows that the site owners are serious about ATS being seen as a respectable website.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 05:43 PM
I will bite on this one.

Surely, the label of HOAX is essentially a non-traceable punishment for those threads contributed which stand a sensibly high chance of being bunk. Therefore, if you have threads in the HOAX forum, your credibility goes out of the window?

But, surely, this is a double edged sword? And something that goes against the fundamental premise of ATS itself?

The Rev.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 08:54 PM
Then there would a hoax born every minute instead of the normal slew of 'controversial claims'
handed out daily by salesmen of some agenda.

The hoax is the normal way of business in some quarters of the world.
The problem is the canopy of fear to let go of it.
The hoax gets kicked around with no real morality play conclusion.

If we learn the players we might find reality but alas we shall forever be fooled
by the likes of Marlowe writing under state secret orders for Shakespeare.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:12 PM
There is a difference between threads that are labelled hoaxes due to the material presented and threads that are intentional hoaxes.

The first, like a thread started with material from Soorcha Faal, would go to the hoax forum because it is. The thread is still open and members can comment on it but there can't be any stars or flags given to the thread.

The other is the intentional hoax, where a member makes or uses an image, video or story for example and intentionally tries to hoax the membership of ATS. This gets moved and the [HOAX] label will be attached by an admin. Only an Admin can put the [HOAX] tag on a thread when it is discovered to be intentional. Again, these threads usually remain open but no stars and flags can be given.

An example of the first kind.

An example of the second kind

As far as controversial claims, half the stuff posted here is controversial and usually ends up in the proper forum for the subject matter.

posted on Feb, 17 2011 @ 09:29 PM
reply to post by rapunzel222

I think the title should be in a larger, bolder font myself....


And a more defined sub-title...

Now let us throw rotten tomatoes at these lying swines!!!

posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:12 AM
reply to post by Chadwickus

I reckon those of us who have managed to get threads labelled as HOAXES by providing good information or whatever should get some sort of suffix for our names like "HOAX Killer Kryties" or "Kryties the awesome HOAX exterminator"......or some such.......

posted on Feb, 18 2011 @ 02:36 AM
reply to post by Kryties

Like little badges?

That would be pretty cool.

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