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Originally posted by GoldenKnightKeith Truth - Liar for the Lord
Originally posted by EmpathicBandit
There are many great points made
Originally posted by EmpathicBanditI am not religious and i dont intend to offend your beliefs, but if you are going to make an argument in a place like this about a thing like this, then i suggest you come prepared, and MAYBE just MAYBE like again another member mentioned, if you DONT want to hear or talk about it, then.. keep it to yourself? dont click on them if it upsets you? just like following a religion or not, we all have a choice, sometimes the best choice is to NOT do something.
Originally posted by EmpathicBanditif you are as smart as you make yourself sound then you'll probably just walk away from this thread now and let the mods deal with it.
Originally posted by AudioOne
OK..... Here is the problem and where I am at within this discussion. I would appreciate if everyone took note. First off as a skeptic to the religious ideas in Zeitgeist, after looking at Acharya's page and checking one of her quotes from Paramanhansa Yogananda, I give her enough credit to suspend judgement and try her theories out. I am ignoring all the highschool kids who are Christian Bashing on here because they didn't get picked for their football team this year, as the OP didn't even state his religion in the original post and I find this bashing distasteful.. Zeitgeist is a movie, nothing more, it might spark an interest to learn more, Religion is a product of culture, history and human development.. How someone try to compare the two baffles me...
Points For Consideration...
Myth:... Ok... I've studied a lot of myths. Old Hindu classics describe nuclear war and flying machines... Old Myths carry much more weight and reality than I feel Zeitgeist fans are understanding. It's like they took the mystical ideas of Masonry and Theosophy but stripped them down to a two dimensional representation devoid of the depth that understands the malleable magical nature of this reality...... Schools teach so 19nth century.. But that is Personnel Opinion... Not fit for this discussion one way or another.
Culture: This point is more valid in that it does not ask for you to agree with opinion as much.... India... India has every myth known to man.. If Krishna is virgin born in one household, He is Shiva in the next, he is Rudra in the next.... You can always find a myth to support your idea in India, but then you have to understand how different myth operates in India, how localized it is... How different from the way myth operates in the Middle East... There are cultural differences.... so, this does not mean Acharya's case doesn't hold water... But some of you Zeitgeist fans forget that even the most main stream theories in religious history (done by non believers no less) still get debated and are unsettled. And they are debated in a civilized manner... So your theory which has much less support should be argued with the same understanding of the discourse at hand.. You can never act is if you have proved it, you can only be happy if you at least raise it to the level of possible which is all that any of the mainstream theories have done.... So quit saying you have proved beyond a doubt, I find Acharya's idea interesting, but I have read so many different takes already....edit on 18-2-2011 by AudioOne because: (no reason given)edit on 18-2-2011 by AudioOne because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by tinfoilman
Originally posted by allprowolfy
Amazing tin, that you stick around for this discussion as you have not yet once pinpointed an elaborated valid point as your discussion has been all about the op's videos?
Yes. That's what this thread is about. OP's videos? Do you know how threads work? Do you know how forums work? If you'd like discuss something else, or you have a question about something, PM me or start a new thread or something.
So question again, and yet again, and yet again?
Yes it is good to ask questions to find out information. People like me don't just make stuff up. We try to ask questions and get information from other people. That's just how I work.
Was your arse around the time of christ>?
To placate and allocate your opions as valid?
No? What's your point? Are you trying to say the Bible isn't true? Okay, go ahead. I never claimed it was true??
I think not< as history has always been written by the winners, and you and your lil mind has been consumed with your childhood dreams of kindergarten and the bull!!!! that they taught you their. the king james bible was rewritten over 280 times and jesus was not written about till over 200 hundred years after his death, and now can you or anyone try to void the sandscripts of the passages of egypt to void the content of what they have to argue, regardless of what they had too say?
So what you're saying is the Bible isn't true? Okay, but Zeitgeist is still wrong also. You're an idiot if you can't see that BOTH can be wrong at the same time. It's a very simple concept.
I thought ats, was all about denying ignorance right?
Yeah, that's why I ask questions yo. To learn stuff. Try it some time.
if you read the sandscripts of egypt you will find that they had their own messiah, from a virgin mother, brought and raised to be the enlightened one,a a sun god of the Egyptians, but i guess i digress, as, know one wants to seek the truth this day and age? do they?
I'm sorry, in my opinion the OP's video debunks that claim. I'm sorry you don't agree. That doesn't appear to be true.edit on 18-2-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)edit on 18-2-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)edit on 18-2-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by kallisti36
Religions are more than a collection of myths and stories. They are cultures and ways of life. This is something I learned while studying Theology in my agnostic days. Only Christians truly understand Christianity. Only Hindus truly understand Hinduism and so on and so forth. When people come in and decide they know a faith better than the people immersed in it, the people who truly understand it get offended. Especially when this person lies and misses the overall point (and makes a ton of money off of it). Regardless, even from a secular understanding of basic aspects of the religions it covers, Zeitgeist and friends are totally wrong.
Before I take down your position: please state what IS your position?
Originally posted by kallisti36
Originally posted by rebeldog
reply to post by madscientistintraining
The OP sounds like a christian who got their ego hurt by knowledge.(kinda like how the original sin of adam/eve was searching for knowledge) only idiots believe that stuff anyway. must hurt to find out the bible is not the end all of life or death..
whats wrong OP mad you were lied to by some backwoods hick preacher? and to embarassed to let the message of zeitgesit sink in..
I bet you hate Bill Hicks, George Carlin, and Christopher Hitchens too.. and you probably hate Religulous also..
I'm perfectly fine with people who disagree with me. However, Zeitgeist is intellectually dishonest and it's fans don't do any research. I don't care about Bill Hicks and I like George Carlin when he's not going off on Religion. You are right about Hitchens, I really don't like him. Not because he's an atheist but because he is a militant anti-theist and well... an ass.
My "ego" was not hurt in the least by the lies of Zeitgeist. I'm just tired of refuting the blatant stupidity of the people who support the movie. I am not hurt in the least by your ad hominem attacks and terrible grammar.
Good day sir
Originally posted by grizzle2
Originally posted by GoldenKnightKeith Truth - Liar for the Lord
On Keith Thompson's video, Exposing the Satanic Empire,
which is very well done and documented, he shows Acharya S. 's website, where she has posted a quote from Karl Marx on religion along with a pic of him. Of course, when people began to look into Zeitgeist's sources, she deleted that. And we know how Marx's disciples dealt with the religious. The same way the Chinese are dealing with believers in Lamaism in Tibet. With torture and death.
Funny that Acharya would have the central figure in atheism on her site's front page. When she's supposed to be all new-agey and stuff.
If you fast forward to 53:33 in the video, you will find all the documentation from experts you need to show that any connection between the story of Christ and those of pagan gods is pure hogwash.
54:06 - Dr. Edwin Bryant, Prof of Hinduism at Rutgers University, on the statement that Krishna was crucified: "That is absolute and complete non-sense. There is absolutely no mention anywhere which alludes to a crucifixion."
And so on, ad nausem.
Here's a video excerpt of the relevant section of Thompson's video:
With the quotes from experts on these religions, refuting what Acharya and Zeitgeist say.
Keith TRASH: "Zeitgeist’s main source Acharya S promoted the founder of Communism, Karl Marx, on her website ... She quotes Karl Marx defaming religion, thus showing her support of Marx and communism."
"Another total and utter lie. Don't ya just love how he makes these giant leaps of faith? When did we step backwards in time into the McCarthy era during the 50's? That was an embarrassing time in America's history when Senator Joseph McCarthy painted everyone he didn't like as a Commy (Soviet Union communist as well as atheists) after WW2, kicking off the cold war. Keith seems to have an affinity for the Dark Ages and McCarthyism, the most embarrassing times in our history. Could you set your goals any lower Keith? Keith simply adds theosophists to McCarthy's list of people to target. I think she once quoted Marx's VERY FAMOUS saying, "Religion ... is the opium of the masses" on her site many years ago. That's hardly "promoting" Marx - Keith Trash is an absolute imbecile. He knows nothing about Acharya but has been flailing around trying to impugn her character with whatever he can pull out of his arse ever since the Zeitgeist movie came out in 07. He's obviously grasping for straws in order to paint everyone who doesn't agree with his extremist religious ideology as evil. Keith and his cult buddies go around the net maliciously smearing, libeling, defaming whoever they chose and they are never held accountable or held responsible for any of it. My Spider-Man senses tell me that Keith, Chris White and their cult would love a new, modern day Inquisition to rid the world of non-believers. There is good reason we refer to that time in our history as the DARK AGES. Decent Christians are ashamed of Keith's cult and their trash. Nowhere in any of her books does Acharya hold Karl Marx in high esteem - or in any esteem. She despises Communism and has never even read any Karl Marx, other than that one quote. In fact, Acharya stands strong in support of the American Constitution" www.freethoughtnation.com...
"First of all, Mike Licona is not a credible individual, as his stated life's mission is to 'prove' that a Jewish man was 'the' God of the cosmos, and was born of a virgin and raised from the dead - a ridiculous premise that is unprovable. "Secondly, Licona's methodology of 'debunking' my work included making random phone calls to professors, reading them a couple of sentences taken out of context, such that they pronounced my book to be 'ridiculous' and made other disparaging comments about my person, and then hanging up. As an example of this unethical behavior of Licona - during which time he apparently also identified some of these 'ridiculous' sentences as mine when they were not - we received the following response from one of his main 'sources' in his attempts at discrediting me, Professor Edwin Bryant. When we asked Prof. Bryant about this affair concerning Licona, my work and Bryant's derogatory comments, Bryant responded as follows: "'I somewhat remember receiving a phone call from someone sometime back requesting my views on Krishna in connection with a book he was critiquing. I had no time or interest to read the book to which he was referring, nor was I criticizing the book itself, as you suggested in a previous email since, not having read it, I had no grounds to do so. As a scholar of the Krishna tradition, I felt duty-bound to answer his questions, which I did, and gave my opinion of the views he represented to me regarding Krishna's supposed crucifixion. There are no traditional sources indicating Krishna or any avatara of Vishnu was crucified. If western authors from (I assume) the colonial period have published claims that there are alternative folk narratives that do represent such a version of events, then the onus is on them to provide specific references to these sources if they are to be taken seriously by scholars. "'best wishes, Edwin Bryant' "Obviously, Licona was not as cozy with these scholars as the impression he gives in order to depict himself as an authority. Nor did he give much a disclosure concerning my arguments, which Bryant acknowledges he has never read. Moreover, again, my book "Suns of God" goes into greater detail regarding this issue in particular, much of which data I would think would be fascinating to a "scholar of the Krishna tradition." In specific, I address the assertion concerning the depiction of Krishna as 'crucified' or in cruciform. "Please also see my rebuttal of Licona vis-a-vis my work - "'It is obvious that apologist Licona's main tactic in refuting The Christ Conspiracy is to attack my credibility, constantly misrepresenting statements from my book and website in order to make me look absurd. Such is a classic tactic of apologists and other used-religion salesmen attempting to sell their shoddy goods to an unsuspecting public. Apologists are not generally trained to think independently or to refute facts but to assail the credentials and credibility of the individual who does not buy such shoddy goods. In other words, don't bother them with the facts or the science, they will simply retort that your hair is the wrong color or you will be punished by God or some other playground rubbish.' "In any event, even if a few assertions from my work are shown to be in error, and I admit to being fallible, the general premise - to wit, Jesus Christ is as mythical as Hercules - remains sound and unrefuted." - Acharya S Acharya regarding Mike Licona - www.truthbeknown.com... www.freethoughtnation.com...