I have an idea for an invention, but need M.E. and E.E. assistance/input.

Perhaps, one of the biggest dilemmas facing humanity today is energy (production, storage, and consumption). Specifically, electricity.

This is old hat for most of us, but there is a very real threat that a Super solar storm [similar to one in 1859], will completely annihilate electrical grids and communication networks for a long, long time...



So, shouldn't our focus on dealing with this very real and imminent threat be accepting the inevitable consequence that personal, sustainable, energy sources are a necessity, not just a luxury, or pipe-dream?

Dependence on Mother Nature to assist in the generation of power may not be the best solution. What if the sun refuses to shine (atmospheric anomolies), water ceases to run (where expected - too cold, or unexpected changes to terrain), or wind stops blowing? Then, some of our greatest winfalls regarding ‘alternative energy sources’ are rendered utterly useless.

We've already got alternators in conventional vehicles, that regenerate power back to the battery so that the engine can start, and devices can be operated - I realize that when the car is running, most/all the power is being generated by the alternator which is being powered by gas

reply to post by SquirrelNutz

You crank that thing for 24 h a day for 1 week and you have maybe generated as much energy as there is in 0.1 liter of oil.

reply to post by rhinoceros


How can you make that statement?

Two of the biggest factors - or unknowns, that are completely adjustable - are the gear box and the rate at which the generator is spinning.

They say a single wind turbine can generate enough energy to power 300 homes. Don't tell me the same technology can't be employed on a smaller, more individual scale.

But even if your Hulk Hogan or Chuck Norris you couldnt turn that thing with as much force or speed as the wind. Have you ever seen one of those turbines. The motor housing (generator housing) is bigger than most apartments.

you have esentially described a dynamo, current limitations are being forced to 'accept' 100 year old theory as fact, solution lies with tesla and impulse technology. research the 'joule thief' and ignore mention of back EMF, thats not whats causing spikes of 100+ volts from a 1.5 button cell...

ed: he said electronic and mechanical engineers, leave chuck out of this.


ed2: the problem isn't that generators don't work, the problem is how many rpm you need to maintain a steady voltage. if your whole house is powered by crank any capacitor or inductor your using to maintain the power will discharge before you stop cranking for long enough to pour a cup of tea and sit down.

A trained athlete in top shape can sustain about 1/4hp for a few hours and up to 2hp for very limited periods.

To put that in perspective:

After losses, the 1/4hp human motor translates into about 150W, after losses. That’s less than 3 60W lightbulbs or a moderate sized LCD television.

You might get the volts but would be at a loss for amperage. Magnets, with their poles against each other might be a better way to go.
Constant source, but generation would be the issue there.

Originally posted by rushunt
But even if your Hulk Hogan or Chuck Norris you couldnt turn that thing with as much force or speed as the wind. Have you ever seen one of those turbines. The motor housing (generator housing) is bigger than most apartments.

You could if it were 'kick-started' - other gear-ratios set up in certain places to help get it going, then the only thing the human is responsible for is inertia.

Two birds with one stone - we set up 'generation farms' where citizens are required to spend X amount of hours a day (or week) helping to contribute to the energy cause. We have unlimited supply of power, and we all get back in shape.

Furthermore, let's just think on your terms. Yes, I've seen those turbines - Sh!t ton of them in west Texas in the panhandle - they are HUGE, I agree. SO.... two things. We're talking individual units now, right? So, 1) scale it down to much smaller than it is now, and 2) think about ways you could introduce human-power to kick start one of these things.

I'm telling you, we can't be as far away from realizing this as we all think.

Originally posted by SirMike
A trained athlete in top shape can sustain about 1/4hp for a few hours and up to 2hp for very limited periods.

To put that in perspective:

After losses, the 1/4hp human motor translates into about 150W, after losses. That’s less than 3 60W lightbulbs or a moderate sized LCD television.

Okay, great.

In a post-apocalyptic world, where we have nothing but time on our hands and a strong desire to get back to a place of normalcy as much as possible, you don't think this would get done?! (if we had the means)

Stop thinking in terms of what a hassle it would be and how little power it would generate. Think about what exactly you would be willing to put up with in a world where the seemingly limitless supply of energy which ran every single part of your lives is now gone forever... unless you generate it yourself - and, we've provided this 'vehicle' to make it happen.

reply to post by SquirrelNutz
These other posters are not leading you astray.

They named the horsepower what they did for a reason.

Watt determined that a pony could lift an average 220 lbf (0.98 kN) 100 ft (30 m) per minute over a four-hour working shift. Watt then judged a horse was 50% more powerful than a pony and thus arrived at the 33,000 ft·lbf/min figure.

Horsepower Wiki Link

Do you think that you can out-work a horse?

How many cars do you know of that are only one horsepower?

Fred Flinstone has been doing it since I can remember, it is the stopping part that looks like it can hurt....
2nd line
3rd line

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
Stop thinking in terms of what a hassle it would be and how little power it would generate. Think about what exactly you would be willing to put up with in a world where the seemingly limitless supply of energy ran every single part of your lives is now gone forever... unless you generate it yourself - and, we've provided this 'vehicle' to make it happen.

Have fun. Personally, I'll get the energy I need from burning wood. Completely sustainable and carbon neutral as long as I don't burn 'em faster than they grow.

Lets just say that you "could" even do this. How much time and money would you spend? I mean you can get a nice generator at harborfreight for 400.00 and spend your efforts on making corn fuel, or even better get a deisel one and convert it to run on cooking oil! lots of information on the net about how to make your own fuel? just saying, there wont be any tv channels anyway like there is anything on tv any ways...

I am totally not putting you down or anything in fact I would like to applaud you for thinking out of the box and using your noodle. there are just Millions of brilliant minds who have already tried similar and they didnt get it right, and millions of other options, solar, etc..

there are other alternatives than rotating magnets, for the universe is on many scales. one other solution is the use of nanocrystals that are aligned in repeating P-N-P junctions in relation to 3 dimentions, ie as many junctions as you can fit into a space.

in theory this will work the same as a solar cell, any disturbance whatsoever should and will cause electron displacement, for experimental results please google for 'crystal batterys' or 'earth batteries' or cement batterys...lots of variations since the practical application has not been smoothed out yet.

regarding the lack of current in favor of volts, I have been wondering for a long while now, since I researched the joule thief, does current actually matter in regard to a circuits load? lightbulbs and LED's for example being simple components to explain, require a voltage to draw a current, but isn't what actually makes them 'work' the wattage?

one more thing, a gearbox would be might tough to crank around once you hit a higher gear, same as its harder to pedal a bike uphill on a high gear, or to force a car to start in 5th when it needs the momentum first. it is a damn good idea, but in my honest opinion needs a relatively stable source like, the whole niagra falls dam turbine theory,

water spins wheel, makes turbine spin, turns magnets, makes power =)

so how much power would you need to light your home? lets say, you need 10 light bulbs, a stove, fridge freezer, and for the sake of comfort a tv and computer, how many watts, mA hours, voltage level, would you need to run those things?

once we can answer those questions we can discover the minimal size of a generator needed for that task. I actually think it can be possible since you won't need to generate inhuman amounts of power =) but cranking it is not going to work well.

urgh, double post my bad

reply to post by madscientistintraining

ed2: the problem isn't that generators don't work, the problem is how many rpm you need to maintain a steady voltage. if your whole house is powered by crank any capacitor or inductor your using to maintain the power will discharge before you stop cranking for long enough to pour a cup of tea and sit down.

I could set up a gear box with only three inline, 5:1 ratio gears and have over 6,000rpms on a hand hand crank of only 50rpms! Not too shabby. Many methods to step that up.





And, again, we're talking end of days, the lights are off and never coming back on therefor you will probably do anything you can to get whatever electricity you can, to operate even the most basic of devices/appliances to make your lives somewhat livable.

Kinda Ironic....I just watched the Matrix....maybe you could get some insigth for your idea from that movie....however, i am not intersted in participating

Hmmm on that same note...when we go to work for whatever reason, how much tourque energy does a person actually generate....there is alot of loss in magnetic energy generation....what if we just look at the energy used to make a robot or other device perform our duties...and the high energy output by our brain to caclulate how to do the task and we even have a self repair mechanism and heating cooling systems...refuel automatically....LMAO....

Are we already feeding energy into a system??

ok check it out you have the right idea but a low tech version..I have been doing a lot of research on this for off the grid living...ok so first thing is people have been making these alternator generators for a long time in fact you can youtube different homemade designs..really alls you need is two neodymium super magnets and a older car alternator and a bicycle or a stiller engine hooked to a gearbox and a heat source (example) Fire or Fresnel Lens to drive the gearbox and spin the alternator..or you could circumvent all this and basically do a neodymium alternator/generator waterwheel on a river or fast moving creek but dont let the Government catch you it's a huge fine!!!!!! they'll tell you salmon spawning ground or environmental damage or mineral rights but it's really them putting a stop to the ability to be self sufficient because then your no longer a slave to thier machine..and all these designs are already developed at patented but have a specific order in thier chronological release in order to keep society working and needing big buisness.. also look up Heely and Tesla inventions and the amount of free energy devices we've had for over a hundred years will make you cry!!!

Originally posted by rushunt
Lets just say that you "could" even do this. How much time and money would you spend? I mean you can get a nice generator at harborfreight for 400.00 and spend your efforts on making corn fuel, or even better get a deisel one and convert it to run on cooking oil! lots of information on the net about how to make your own fuel? just saying, there wont be any tv channels anyway like there is anything on tv any ways...

I am totally not putting you down or anything in fact I would like to applaud you for thinking out of the box and using your noodle. there are just Millions of brilliant minds who have already tried similar and they didnt get it right, and millions of other options, solar, etc..

I know there're generators out there already, problem is, they oprate on other things than human power - this is the ultimate goal here - trying not to depend on anything else (sun, water, wind, fuel, etc) that you do not have direct control over.

No insult taken at all - appreciate the input (all of it) - and, yeah, this is what has prohibited me from posting before..."Millions of brilliant minds who have already tried similar and they didnt get it right" - I just have to believe we're far more brilliant, now, and overlooking something simple - OR, thinking on too big of a scale.

Example: Take one of those big turbines we discussed above - shrink it down to about 1/10 the size. Now - of course it is generating less power (but, keep in mind, we're only talking about creating a 'unit' for individual use), but you've gotten it down to a size where a human (or humans) could physically manipulate the turbine themselves, either by repeatedly jumping up and hanging on a blade to keep it going (like starting an old prop plane) OR replacing the axle that the blades are attached to with an alternate [human created] generator.

See what I'm saying? We're practically already there (just thinking on too big of a scale)